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Sunday Nov. 7 highlights

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  • andrew macnab
    Hi, Long hard highlights again today, how long does it take for that stuff to wear off? andrew
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 8, 1999
      Long hard highlights again today, how long does it take for that stuff
      to wear off?



      (from: the Tao Te Ching - #67)
      simplicity, patience, compassion.

      These three are your greatest treasures.

      Simple in actions and in thoughts,
      you return to the source of being.

      Patient with both friends and enemies,
      you accord with the way things are.

      Compassionate toward yourself,
      you reconcile all beings in the world.


      for me becoming aware of the entirety reveals
      simplicity. I am acutely aware of a greater context in which
      i have my being, in which no division between simplicity and
      complexity is setup. I have no intention of remaining
      unaware of the entirety of any issue purely for the sake of
      another individual's concept of or request for simplicity...

      TIM G.+ JERRY

      > I used to think I was here to give... until I found that there are
      >maybe 2 or 3 people willing to receive. Now I don't know why I'm here. >Just entertainment, I s'pose.

      Receive what? If you know you have something to give, you
      give it without counting the house or even necessarily
      knowing for sure what you are giving. You don't hold back
      and you don't stop giving if you think you are being ignored
      or are being attacked. However, I can see changing lists and
      doing the giving elsewhere.

      >Advaitin is a more pleasant list, and there are people much more >willing to listen when someone says something, and everyone there seems >to know about "The interminable net of vain argumentation." This list >is some sort of joke.

      When a list community clearly defines itself, it limits
      itself, and some control can be exercised. There's a lot of
      value in that. This list is more of the nature of a
      free-for-all, neither a solid nor a liquid. It's a gas!


      What the world needs is a list dedicated to the development of Ego. A
      list founded upon the principal of strength, where might makes right.
      Where rules are written in blood and life is not but struggle and pain.

      What sort of people might such a list attract?

      Dr. Leary used to say that the sickest individual in a group determines
      the reality of the group. Usually, at least on the gentle sort of
      e-mail lists I prey upon, that individual who most infringes on the
      reality tunnels of others is myself. On this list however I am totally
      out gunned. Not that I mind. It is refreshing and educational. The
      main difference I've noticed between the non-dualist in general and
      myself is that while we both have messages to impart, the only message a
      non-dualist can transmit is that, in fact, there is no message.

      Now imagine a group of people who all accept this basic tenet and yet
      still see fit to attempt to share this simple, though inexpressible,
      Truth with one another.

      In information theory one can rate the amount of information transmitted
      by its degree of unpredictability. So for instance, if I saw a ball
      game and the next day I was to read about it in the paper, the story
      would likely have no new informational content for me. It should
      conform to my expectation, but if it failed to do so, if for example, it
      told of an event that happened after the game, perhaps a fight involving
      two players, then the informational content would be measurably higher.
      Unless of course such a fight were to usually occur, hence being

      So in the environment of this list, where the true informational content
      is necessarily minimal, it is only natural for the noise to drown out
      the signal.


      One person's noise is another person's signal. The list is not just
      information in the sense that television or newspaper is. The list is
      information in the sense that you are or I am. The list is much like a
      mind, it exists and/or not in the same way, only it's smarter and better
      informed than any of the people who write to it. It's also as fragile as
      us, susceptible to disease, and senescence and death. There is
      interaction among individuals on the list, and there is also interaction
      with the list itself. Email is the message, email is the medium. This is
      the infant global mind.


      Amusement is pleasant; I enjoy it.

      In line with our new subject, (deslyxia/dyslexia ed.)I wish to offer a
      few ideas that relate, just for fun:

      * One of my favorite concepts in the 'fields of nonduality and
      Buddhism' is that of _inversion_. Inversion is spoken of in the context
      of a kind of turning inside-out, which occurs at crucial phases in the
      process of inevitable maturation.

      To understand 'inversion' in this context is very difficult. I found my
      best references to it to be in the 'Vimalakirti Nirdesa Sutra' as
      translated by Charles Luk (I am fond of his easy to read texts). It is
      also discussed in 'Magic Dance: The Display of the Self-Nature of the
      Five Wisdom Dakinis' by Thinley Norbu.

      To grasp what inversion is, imagine the human body; skin on the outside,
      bones in the center. Now, to invert that stucture, would mean to have
      the bones on the outside, and the soft tissues on the inside; this
      describes the 'exoskeleton' of an insect.

      To posit that humans have 'evolved' up through the most basic to the
      most complex, includes the phases of insectoid evolution; to see that
      humans go through 'larval' and then 'postlarval' phases, points to the
      unity of the physiologic and psychologic aspects of existence.

      Inversion for a human, then, represents a phasic, cyclic progress of
      'transfiguration'. If this has even a shred of validity to it, it could
      go a long way toward shedding light upon the poorly understood
      'objective' phenomenon of the movement of an individual from 'dualistic'
      (larval) to 'nondual' (postlarval) awareness.

      In regard to the above, it has 'always' been my perception that 'what is
      really going on' with spiritual maturation, is actually an inevitable
      process, whose codecs are 'built-into' the energetic and perhaps genetic
      templates of the exisiting body. The possible implications of this
      include the possibility that interaction of 'Guru' with 'student',
      unleashes a latent pattern of unfoldment of maturity, via a 'virtual
      photonic transmission'; this is rather than, a 'teaching' or 'learning'
      experience, which is often assumed to the the triggering factor. If this
      is so, more is implied; first, that personal contact or proximity of
      Guru to student is required, for eye-contact to take place. It is
      through the eyes that 'virtual photonic transmission' may occur.

      Second, that the syndrome of failure to 'get it' merely by reading
      spiritual books, does not represent actual failure; that 'getting it' is
      less a process of learning, than the awakening of consciousness to the
      dawn of a new inner sun, triggered into luminescence by the kindling
      effect of the Guru's special photonic transmission.

      * This brings to mind a wonderful experience that I had years ago,
      while living on the Big Isle of Hawaii. On the wall, I had taped a
      poster of Swami Satchitananda. I had noticed that his eyes seemed to
      follow me as I moved around the room. Time passed, and this became a
      constant and somewhat unsettling experience. Finally, as I was leaving
      my 'meditation tent' one day, I looked up into the clear bright blue
      sky; there, instead of the sun, was the beaming, smiling face of Neem
      Karoli Baba (Guru of Ram Dass). This was to say the least, a huge and
      shocking suprise. I actually fell over on my back in sheer spasmodic
      reflex reaction. This face, emanating powerful rays of some kind, seemed
      to be mouthing words to me, trying to talk to me. I shook inside; I was

      Later that day, after about 30 minutes of meditation, my companion
      remarked that I seemed to have lost weight. I weighed myself and
      discovered that I had indeed lost about eleven pounds in about 30
      minutes. I also was surrounded by a very dense emanation of what smelled
      like ozone.

      This event and several others, marks in my memory the beginning of a
      very intense period, during which I experienced 'inversion', seemingly
      leaving my dead body behind. This was a very dramatic and painful event,
      which also included 'giving birth to myself' with the assistance of
      'God's Chiropractor' (yes, just like in 'Jacob's Ladder', the movie, of
      which I am very fond). In this process of birthing myself, the 'labor'
      was long and painful. It seemed that I actually died in childbirth, but
      I also survived as the me that I am now. Wild, eh?

      * 'Dyslexia' is thought to be understood; yet, I have read of no
      theories which describe or posit a 'psychological' genesis of this
      common 'disorder'. My observation is that what is really going on, is
      actually an incompleted _inversion_ of consciousness. Individuals who
      'have' dyslexia may simply be stuck in-between phases of inversion. I
      would like to test this 'theory' by exposing a group of known dyslexics
      to a powerful Guru. His virtual photonic transmission may just allow the
      inversion process to proceed. I have seen something like this happen; a
      person, seeing a Guru, will fall to the ground, screaming and writhing
      in pain. The Guru just sits there smiling, and waves away would-be
      helpers. The resultant effects include dissolution of the personality,
      hilarity, profound silence, and eventual peacefull sleep. I think that
      somehow, all of this ties together.

      * Is it possible that the ancient Inca were correct, in their practice
      of looking into the sun, to recieve special information and
      empowerments? Is it possible that our 'spiritual evolution' may be
      governed or triggered by actual photonic emissions? Is it possible that
      in the inevitable unity of 'ALL', that we are subjected to periodic
      showers of 'enlightenment', on a planetary scale? Does astrology talk
      about this in some context?

      Just exposing you to some of my thoughts. I really have no attachment to
      any of these concepts. They are 'just for fun'.


      Paying deep attention to everything is different than the
      athlete or dancer who pays that degree of attention to one
      thing. The one who wants to move into full meditation has to
      pay deep attention to everything. Literally everything. If
      something is ignored, real and full meditation can't happen.
      Problems can occur because one will be forced to face what
      might have been un-faceable. When every nook and cranny of
      one's life is entered into deeply, then full meditation can

      A classic example of this is found in Da Free John's
      autobiography, The Knee of Listening, in which he tells of
      spending years writing down every thing his attention
      touched. He composed thousands and thousands of hand-written
      pages. His wife worked and supported him during these years.
      He didn't work. He wrote down every impression, feeling,
      thought, emotion. Nothing escaped his record.

      One day his wife came home to find him kneeling nude by the
      fireplace, feeding the fire with his writings. It took him
      hours to burn the thousands of sheets. She was devastated
      and felt her years of working to support his work was also
      being fed to the fire, wasted.

      But it was necessary him to, first, attend deeply to every
      instant, and, second, to let it give way to full meditation,
      to the instant itself.

      For those who intuit the I AM, that can be attended to as
      well. And at random times one may inquire, Is this I AM? Or
      the inquiry Who am I? may be used, of course. Or any other
      good inquiry. The important thing is to attend deeply. That
      will change the quality of consciousness.

      A person will start to be meditated, which means they are
      feeling the touch of Grace; a person will understand that
      the eye with which one sees God is the eye with which God
      sees one; in other words, paying deep attention to any
      thing, one finds they are being attended to as well, the one
      neutralizes the other and the nondual moment is known; one
      will find that once they've looked into the eye of Truth or
      the eyes of the Master, they can never look away; many
      realizations like that will come. These are rungs on a
      ladder and none is the final step, which is beyond the


      >Paying deep attention to everything is different than the
      >athlete or dancer who pays that degree of attention to one

      Is it?

      It seems to me that there is only 'the moment'.

      How may things can happen in 'one moment'?

      What I am suggesting is that divided attention
      puts me to sleep, and singularity of focus on the
      matter at hand wakes me back up.

      For me.... to be running, and at the same time
      worrying about 'did I turn the coffee pot off',
      and how am I doing in relation to other people,
      and what will the weather be tomorrow....is to miss
      the moment....the I AM.....the Stillpoint.

      (And athletes and dancers and artists and musicians,
      even computer programmers *know* the Stillpoint...
      even when they can't 'name it'.)

      On the other hand, if worry is what *is* for me -
      right this moment.. giving that worry my full attention
      I am once again...automatically....in the Moment.

      There is no avoiding what comes up Jerry. But
      rather looking at NOW completely. I'm suggesting
      that we can't look at 2 things at one time, and to
      be present to *both* with full attention.

      At least I can't. :-) Maybe it's a matter
      of practice?

      >The one who wants to move into full meditation has to
      >pay deep attention to everything. Literally everything. If
      >something is ignored, real and full meditation can't happen.

      >Problems can occur because one will be forced to face what
      >might have been un-faceable. When every nook and cranny of
      >one's life is entered into deeply, then full meditation can

      Yes, moment to moment. And *eventually* everything
      is faced.

      >A classic example of this is found in Da Free John's
      >autobiography, The Knee of Listening, in which he tells of
      >spending years writing down every thing his attention

      This was a great story, Jerry.

      It reminds me of another story I heard the other
      day, but try as I may I can not find it. I cannot
      do justice in the retelling but will try to convey
      the essence. (If anyone know knows it, or it's source,
      I'd appreciate receiving it, because I had thought
      I had saved it)....

      Ram Dass was lecturing to a large group of people,
      describing his awesome experiences while in the
      Pyramids of Egypt. (?) All thru his talk this little
      old lady sitting in the front row continued to
      nod her head affirmatively at all that he said.

      After a while he became a little annoyed at this
      woman nodding her head, as if *she* could possibly
      know what it took him so many years of seeking and
      meditating to know. How could such a simple woman
      know about such ? Perturbed enough, he simply
      stopped his talk and asked her how was it that she
      had come to know the Stillpoint.

      To which she replied, "oh that was easy! I crochet!"


      >Seeing the meta self (the list) as a self allows me to see myself

      This may be one of the biggest perceptual shifts.. releasing bondage of
      identity from the narrowness of single self (cell) to one of cell in a
      larger Body Being.

      >Where is the list self? who is it? Is the whole being not just the sum
      >of the parts. Am I software running in a brain, the list running in >many brains?

      The gift is that we are ever so gradually knowing ourSelf, as many
      brain cells, each offering that what it receives to offer, as a member
      part of the whole. Discernment lies in assessing from *which* facet of
      the software the 'offering' comes from. Opportunities abound to self
      correct, to wake up, to integrate shadow.

      >does the list meditate?

      Perhaps, each time we enter the Matrix consciously.

      >the list seems to have moods, to be affected by the seasons. Are
      >southern hemisphere listmembers out of phase with the rest spring going
      >on summer for Skye or Ivan."

      The list knows itself through an outfolding of it's members, who are in
      turn impacted by geo-bio rhythms, hence each cell - recognizing through
      the moods and seasons- that it is not alone.

      >What became of Ivan? The list has a history does the list have a

      How could there not be memory.. an aggregate of each cell's perceptual
      data bank.. each holding the potential personalized distortion as
      vailance, in tandem with the clear camera-shot of this moment and then
      this one.

      I can only speak from this cell's observation from almost a year's
      participation with this list.. I have again and again ventured out
      (posted) and then observed.. intent, motive, guidance, hidden agenda,
      ego, clarity et al. Six months ago, I entered the public-private
      coliseum with Tim. He came at me hard.. challenged a whole lot. I
      listened deeply, reflected, tried to keep my heart open. I eventually
      withdrew for a while to reflect, face, integrate and rest. There is
      irony in that as I return to the list this week, this turbulence has
      either resurfaced or never stopped. I can not speak to the pebble's
      role, but .. in my shoe, it engendered value. How can I not be grateful
      for this lesson.

      What I also witness, however, is that I do not return standing upon the
      same patch of land which nurtered me last Spring. The many other cells
      in this list body-Being have had an irrevocable grace giving impact on
      the vibratory frequency I abide within. The being which danced
      (sometimes frantically) in the past-present identify cocoon, has found a
      gentler rhythm to relax within. With the binding less constricted,
      suddenly, there is far less to attune with stressfully.

      What also is apparent.. and so often remains hidden by the vailance, is
      the exquisite presence of this generative field of fresh unstressed
      substance, sustaining and awaiting the breath of Life.

      Perhaps, our deepest imperative as individuals and as member-cells in
      this body.. is to attend this breathing into form with deepest


      I appreciate seeing all the names that flash
      accross the screen as aspects of my self.

      And I appreciate noticing how this list self...
      this macro self... struggles with it's shadow parts
      just as the micro self does.

      We each take turns on this list reflecting those
      rejected aspects of this list self.....as we stretch
      toward freedom....taking turns being the one that is whispered about,
      are we going to *do* with that guy?", or "I would *never* do what she

      So many sayings from the Gospel of Thomas ring
      thru my ear today in this context:

      5) Jesus said, "Recognize what is in your sight,
      and that which is hidden from you will become plain
      to you. For there is nothing hidden which will not
      become manifest."

      7) Jesus said, "Blessed is the lion which becomes
      man when consumed by man; and cursed is the man
      whom the lion consumes, and the lion becomes man."

      25) Jesus said, "Love your brother like your soul,
      guard him like the pupil of your eye."

      26) Jesus said, "You see the mote in your brothers
      eye, but you do not see the beam in your own eye.
      When you cast the beam out of your own eye, then you
      will see clearly to cast the mote from your brother's

      and finally, my favorite

      22) Jesus saw the infants being suckled. He
      said to His disciples, "These infants being
      suckled are like those who enter the Kingdom."
      They said to Him, "Shall we then, as children,
      enter the Kingdom?" Jesus said to them, "When
      you make the two one, and when you make the
      inside like the outside and the outside like the
      inside, and the above like the below, and when
      you make the male and the female one and the
      same, so that the male not be male nor the female
      female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of
      an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot
      in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a
      likeness; then you will enter [the Kingdom]."

      >Our 'original nature' is that we are, like a wind-up toy, >'pre-wound-up'; this is how we 'come from the manufacturer'. Our >hungers are installed and in place, _as our original condition_. Living >in the original condition, is the 'Edenic state'.

      You know, Gene. I was about to disagree with
      you here until I asked myself the question,
      "What did Adam and Eve have to hunger for.....what
      did they lack....before being cast out of the Garden?"

      And then it occurred to me. They hungered for
      experience! They hungered for something 'new'...
      for 'discovery'....for 'challenge'.

      So many thoughts are coming at one time, bear
      with me.....

      So, now I'm seeing 'hunger' or 'longing' as not only
      part of evolution, but involution as well!

      And I'm now considering how this 'longing' for
      experience in the Garden is *heightened* by the
      presence of the serpent (big grin) .....leading to involution and

      And that once materiality is shown no longer to satisfy,
      the serpent of K heightens that longing again....
      leading to evolution, and 'oneness'.

      It is, indeed the serpent eating it's tail, as
      Jan says! The circle of life....one half the circle
      is involution, the other half is the evolutionary

      And it causes me to wonder. Is there a time when
      hunger and longing no longer is? The answer, staying
      with this model of the serpent, seems to be "Yes,
      once the serpent has completely consumed his self".


      ...realization involves no outside source or measurement device.
      Perhaps this is the crux of such debates as have occurred between
      Advaitists and Buddhists about concepts such as "emptiness." There's no
      ultimate outside authority to judge who is "correct" and yet there are
      differences as to how to express the nature of truth. My way to deal
      with this is to assume such debates won't result in any "final version"
      of truth, and yet they might help hone awareness of participants to see
      directly with utmost clarity...


      The Pathway of Nonduality

      by Raphael

      Chapter 10 (concluded)

      The Fall of the Soul

      (Thank you for your comments Skye and Dan; I am also
      enjoying this chapter.)

      Q. If the pure atman-spirit can never fall into duality, who
      has divided then?

      A. All the traditional Branches agree in maintaining that
      the scission concerns the Soul, or jivatman or psyche which
      is a reflection of the pure Spirit. Just as the individual
      in a dream, who experiences duality, is a projection of the
      mind, so too the Soul is a simple projection of the atman.

      Q. How does the scission occur?

      A. This 'projection' or reflection of the atman attracts
      towards itself 'matter' from the various planes of existence
      and makes vehicles or bodies of manifestation from it; then
      it identifies with these bodies forgetting its true origin.
      The myth of Narcissus explains this phenomenon and this
      process very well. We can understand all this only through
      images and analogies.

      Q. Is the individual, a shadow of atman, obliged to
      indentify with its other 'shadow'?

      A. He is not obliged, but he is free to do so.

      Q. Can you give me an example by way of illustation?

      A. In our mind we can conjure up an ideal, a passion, etc.,
      and identify with it to such an extent as to forget that we
      are individuals above and beyond passions and ideas. We can
      dream while wide awake (and wakefulness is also a dream) and
      identify with our dreams to such a degree that we lose our
      identity. This happens to the majority of people; in fact,
      they are not persons but teachers, politicians, tradesmen,
      fathers, mothers, children, etc.; they are everything and
      anything but entities aware of their true and profound

      When we become one with what we are not or with 'things' --
      and even our bodies, an ideal and an emotion are things --
      the scission has take place. When we have become 'thing'
      ourselves, we have lost our identity and our freedom. We may
      even say that by identifying with an object we have
      'fallen', that we are no longer ourselves apart from being
      number-quality. "Oblivion is therefore his wickedness."
      (Corpus Hermeticum: X, 15)

      Q. Can the individual then avoid creating this scission?

      A. We have said that he may or may not do so, this depends
      upon his freedom to be, which is inherent in his nature.

      However, we should remember that Being is by nature an
      indivisible unity that cannot split or become two. Thus it
      is obvious that the scission (word which undoubtedly in
      inadequate to express the concept we wish to propose) is not
      in an absolute sense a loss of balance in the unity, but the
      nature of Being is such that it can manifest an unlimited
      number of expressions. The fall or the scission must not be
      considered as becoming other than Being, but as representing
      a mode of being. A piece of ice is an expression and a mode
      of water, but one cannot say that an absolute scission or an
      irreversible fall has occurred in water. Human experience is
      a 'mode of being', a state of consciousness of Being.

      Q. Therefore the fall is not an act of divine will.

      A. No. Man is divided because he wants to. He is passionate
      because he so desires. He is born upon this plane of
      existence because he so desires, man is even an individual
      because he desires.

      Q. Therefore the Tradition is simply pointing to the
      solution of this scission.

      A. Yes. The Tradition is the depositary of this fundamental
      truth. it teaches the restless, conflicting individual how
      he can find the way back to unity. Traditional symbology
      refers to this process of scission and its consequent
      recomposition; this is the symbology of Isis and Osiris in
      ancient Egypt and of Orphism in Greece. In other words, it
      is the symbology of the Sacred Mysteries of the West as well
      as that of the Veda-Upanishads.

      The death and rebirth of the initiations are nothing more
      than a profound symbol. It is necessary to die to what one
      is not in order to be reborn to what one really is.

      While the philosophy of becoming perpetuates the state of
      scission and conflict, the Philosophy of being resolves it
      by bringing the being back to Being.

      "What is it, then which has made souls forget their father,
      God, and be ignorant of themselves and Him, even though they
      are parts which come from His higher world and altogether
      belong to it? The beginning of evil for them was audacity
      and coming to birth and the first otherness and the wishing
      to belong to themselves. Since they were clearly delighted
      with their own independence, and made great use of
      self-movement, running the opposite course and getting as
      far away as possible, they were ignorant even that they
      themselves came from that world, just as children who are
      immediately torn from their parents and brought up far away
      do not know who they themselves or their parents are. Since
      they do not any more see their father or themselves, they
      despise themselves through ignorance of their birth and
      honour other things, admiring everything rather than
      themselves and, astonished and delighted at and dependent on
      these earthly things, they broke themselves loose as far as
      they could in contempt of that from which they turned away.
      So their honour for these things here and their contempt for
      themselves are the causes of their utter ignorance of God.
      For what pursues and admires something else admits at the
      same time its own inferiority; but making itself inferior to
      things which come into being and perish and considering
      itself the most contemptible and the most liable to death of
      all the things which it admires it could not possibly have
      any idea of the nature and power of God." (Plotinus,
      Enneads: V, 1, i)

      Here lies the essence of all truly human evil, which
      consists in breaking away from the basis of one's being, in
      the refusal of one's true origin and in atheistic
      alienation. Plotinus' teaching is, essentially, a therapy
      for returning to oneself, an exhortation to engage in
      interior reflection so as to open up a selfish closeness
      (the will 'to belong to oneself') and put a stop to the
      waste caused by unruly passions ('running the opposite

      Selfishness is no more than a failing of the original power
      of love and liberality which is the essence of every
      spiritual being. It is a fault 'due to lack of vigor', a
      degradation and corruption of the deepest human energy no
      longer able to elevate itself, within the most intimate
      recess of the mind where the sense of the Sacred abides.
      Thus passions, instead of being mere 'alterations' of the
      body, become 'agitations' of the soul, deviating it, as in a
      dream, from its true life. They all rise from a debasement
      of Eros, from its becoming 'earthly' and renouncing That
      true love of man for his own 'dignitas', for the beauty of
      his own soul.

      The way of liberation, according to Plotinus, lies in the
      'purification' of our 'inner sight' so that the soul may
      recognize itself in all its original decorum.

      The next Chapter is on transmigration, reincarnation,
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