Highlights, Monday, October 25
- OLD HAG
...extracted from old book from the 70's, Toward The One, by
Pir Vilayat Khan, and was a guide to younger bones while
going through hot three year intensive in late 70's.
Maybe someone here would enjoy, If so, fine. If not so,
"Is not suffering due to the fact that it is forced upon us?
Suppose we would do consciously what nature does
unconsciously? Suppose we could offer ourselves willingly
to be molded and buffeted by life?
We are the offering placed on the altar of the World.
If we would sacrifice what we wish most,
we would gain a tremendous freedom.
This is what life asks of us,
the greatest gift of all,
always what we want most,
or the innermost of ourselves,
our own heart.
It is the acceptance of the unacceptable
that is asked of us.
So, we are tested.
To make evident whether
our heart's treasure is
earthly or heavenly,
There is no Good Friday without an Easter.
No dark night without a dawn,
and no oppression without a release,
and the sacrifice is followed by an outburst
of such moment that it shakes the very
The veil of the temple is split,
there is a tremor on earth.
You are resurrecting every time
you overcome yourself."
The Nonduality Salon Website has been updated:
October 25, 1999
Added Retreat with Francis Lucille, and brief note about
Leonard Jacobson, both by Greg Goode, to the Satsang with
Added Impermanence to the list of Institutions supporting
Added a very good and easy to read version (lots of margin
space!) of the Tao Te Ching (sent-in by M.)
Added the following names to the Realizers/Confessors list:
Abbah Frederic | Madhukar Thompson | Leonard Jacobson |
Prof. V. Krishnmurthy | Raphael
DIANA (with Tim)
Tim: The only thing is, the mind control and manipulation
usually begin AFTER joining the organization.
Diana: I can only say - absolutely not true. I was
recruited for a cult-like group situation. If I had had ANY
idea of what the group was really like - i would never have
It was a situation of a liceNsed PhD therapist - running a
study group for an international religious/meditation
group. i still do not know the exact nature of the
religious group - except that they were, at best -
incredibly naive. At worst - deliberately toxic.
The therapist saw that I was in the middle of a spiritual
awakening, k rising - whatever you want to call it. He
persuaded me that therapy with him - could help me overcome
obstacles to my growth and development. I thought it
sounded pretty good:) I was not really familiar with the
term 'dual relationship' - at that point. I am well aware
of it now:)
He began a six month long 'seduction'. I was in private
therapy, his meditation group (that he ran for the
international group), and his jungian dream group. I saw
him 3 times a week. slowly - all other social activities
fell by the wayside - from sheer lack of time.
He - and the other meditation group members - became my
life. I WAS in the midst of a spiritual awakening. It was
my life. After 6 months and meeting the teacher - the other
shoe dropped. Major manipulation. Trance state induction -
w/o permission. Mind control. Post hypnotic suggestion.
It took months - for me to realize the full extent of what
was happening. He was teaching a form of sexual tantra -
during therapy sessions. If he had started out doing this -
I would have bolted for the door. But this occurred - 7
months after I began working with him. The therapy sessions
had always been used for religious instruction anyway. The
whole premise of my 'therapy' - had been to help me overcome
I confronted him - of course. He said he had 'permission' -
for everything. And laughed. AT me - not with me. He
laughed at me a lot. In the beginning - i was naive enough
to think he was helping me to 'shed' Ego. He also said the
teacher had told him to do - what he was doing. The teacher
- whom i eventually asked - would not confirm this.
If you are a therapist - you may already know the tremendous
- and out of proportion - power a therspit can wield over
clients. Worst case. If the therapist chooses to do so.
This man had been active in the local psychological and
metaphysical community. He seemed well known (and later I
discovered for what:)
Eventually - i noticed that most of his clients seemed to be
females from abusive childhood backgrounds - who seemed just
as cowed - or adoring - as I had once been. Then it all
Also - I discovered that everyone in his meditation group -
was a client. Anyone who did not consent to becoming his
client - he ran off. Although he advertised the group in the
religous section of the local major newspaper.
Finally - I broke away from him. He pursued harassing me in
the religious group - until I was expelled from it.
I was 42 years old when I met him. I grew up in the 70's -
and had an 'adventureous' youth - you could politely say. I
am not a shrinking violet. I am half-way intelligent. And
I fell for it.
The only I can figure - I was in a low state due to
continuing problems with my husband. I felt very
unattractive and undesirable. I was in the midst of an
enormous life change. There's a few risk factors for you
right there -
Tim: Those interested in nonduality are not seeking anything
they don't already possess.
Diana: Great logic! Not true however. In my case (and in
the case of MANY people - male and female) - a major
kundalini awakening - with no previous knowledge of what
kundalini is - drives out small considerations like duality
- or not.
It is - in a word - overwhelming. I cannot imagine anyone
being in a more vulnerable and manipulatible position.
Since in our culture we do not normally talk about these
things (not even admit their existence) - if something like
this happens to a person without warning - there IS not
explanation for it.
But there are plenty of folks out there - willing to offer
explanations for it. Theirs. "Stay in this group - or you
will lose you knowledge. It comes from us". "Do what we
say - or you will lose all connection to your spirituality.
It is coming form us."
Sure - after a while the truth becomes obvious. But not at
first. Spiritual development - is too important to be left
undiscussed. My feeling was - there may be some on this
list (and all lists) - who have not achieved the level of
development you obviously have:) My story - such as it is -
is for them.
Tim: I don't have much interest, given that if the leader
of a cult (or ANY religious organization that I had not
approached me and offered one million dollars to give that
organization a try for a single month, I would have him
physically ejected from the premises.
Diana: You are not listening Tim! Cult like groups - do NOT
recruit in that way. First object - would be to become your
very best friend. Are you interested in having friends?
Human societies themselves are cults, in a sense. Even
society as a whole (globally) is a cult of sorts. We are
all cultists until the latent freedom within us is
discovered. Until we allow ourselves to see the prison
bars, then take that major leap to realize that the key to
the cell is sitting in our hand. And another major leap to
use the key, and take that first faltering step out of our
The Marine Corps, political parties, organized religions
aren't considered cults because they support the mind
control we've all agreed to accept as reality. They use
charisma, manipulation, images - and find ways to get what
they believe they need from their followers, even to the
point of taking everything at times.
ANDREW, DAN, AND SKYE
Tai chi sees a difference between energy and force.
Energy comes from the sinews and force from the bones,
according to tai chi theory. Therefore energy is a property
of the supple, the alive, flexible. Force is a property of
the hard, the dead, inflexible. Issuing energy is like
shooting an arrow, the bow and the string derive their power
from their elasticity, their aliveness and suppleness.
This is true - the physical principles of Tai Chi emphasize
the energy of sinews and flexibility. Advanced practioners
rely on flow of chi, an energy similar to prana, not
dependent on the physical structure, but flowing through
it. The chi is used to "stick" to an opponent, moving with
strength when weakness is contacted, retreating when
strength is extended by the opponent. Balance is
The opponent imbalances, resulting in defeat. It occurs
very quickly and directly, unless two equal practitioners
engage and counter each other effectively. The principles
of Tai Chi in action are balance, "no mind", grounding, and
flow of chi.
Thus, it is said that "weakness defeats strength," "the
fluid overcomes the solid," "chi [internal energy] overcomes
[external, muscular] force", and one fights without
fighting, moves without moving, acts without doing.
amazing energies, i see their psychological equivalent at
the same time. I would love to see spontaneously - this
undivided reflection simultaneously - combined in every
actuality presented to my human viewpoint.
DAN AND SKYE
We experienced intensely departing from our mothers womb and
its been one solidly and separately placed manifestation
after another since then. From that perspective distance
still rules most of us, illusory or not. 6 billion people
are not coming to the realization that all is conceptual too
easily on this planet.
"many are called but few are chosen"
"it is more difficult for a camel to pass through the eye of
a needle than a rich person to enter the Kingdom"
"you cannot serve God and Mammon together"
there's no other way.
there's only the way of total relinquishment, even
relinquishment of relinquishing.
not even "nothing" is left...
I'm not saying this to claim there is a way, or I know the
way. This is, in my opinion, why Jesus reportedly said, "I
am the way" -- a greatly misinterpreted statement.
--- love ---
The Mountain Path Vol. 1 - July 1964 - No. 3
Seeing It Simply By Wei Wu Wei
All objectivisation is conceptual, all conceptuality is
inference, and all inference is as empty of truth as a
vacuum is empty of air. Moreover there is no truth, never
has been and never could be; there is no thus-ness,
such-ness, is-ness, nor anything positive or negative
whatever. There is just absolute absence of the cognisable,
which is absolute presence of the unthinkable and the
unknowable � which neither is nor is not. Inferentially
this is said to be an immense and radiant splendour
untrammelled by notions of time and space, and utterly
beyond the dim, reflected sentience of temporal and finite
--contributed by Harsha
More Wei Wu Wei (contributed by Bob Bays)
I move, Space becomes (as a result of my movement), Time is
born (as a measure of my movement in space), I have objects
(because I have become the subject of space and time),
Dualism is established, The Universe appears, I identify
myself with my objects (and there are illusory egos), I
suffer illusorily (and suffering becomes universal).
I repose, Space vanishes (for I have ceased to move), Time
ceases (for there is no movement to measure), There are no
objects (for I am no longer a subject), Dualism is no more,
The Universe disappears, There are no illusory egos, There
is no suffering, I am, but there is no 'me'.
(From "All Else Is Bondage", 1964)
The Pathway of Nonduality
The Three States of Being (concluded)
Prajna is the germinal, causal state, that is, the state
from which the determinations of manifestation arise. It is
the geometrical point which, while having no dimension, is
the origin of the line and the plane. It is the noumenon,
it is a germ containing being in all its potentiality.
The entity jiva-prajna manifests itself upon the existential
level of Being, of Isvara; this is the Brahmaloka level, the
abode of Brahma, where multiplicity dissolves into unity.
In it we can see how the three states are but one having
different modes of expression; in it there are no
distinctions, there is no duality, there is no opposition.
He who discovers this condition has the privilege of seeing
the unity of life, of understanding how consciousness has
become so vast as to embrace the whole of existence. The
entities and the planes are not without but within oneself,
because there is no without and therefore no within.
Oneness 'is', and it is everywhere in its indivisibility.
Prajna is assimilated to deep dreamless sleep, because in
prajna everything goes back to silence, to non-becoming, to
non-motion. Therefore, waking, dreaming and deep dreamless
sleep correspond to vaisvanara, taijasa and prajna, and as
waking, dreaming and deep sleep are experienced by a sole
witness, so vaisvanara, the gross state, taijasa, the subtle
state and prajna, the germinal state, are all experienced by
one and the same witness (saksin), the only real and
constant factor, while the three states appear and
disappear. This witness, also called avasthatrayasaksin
(witness of the three states) is a reflection, on the plane
of the manifest, of the transcendent Brahman-atman (the
Fourth) beyond the three states, while at the same time
Q. Have these states a correspondence with other
A. Yes, according to the Mysterical Tradition, synthesized
by Plotinus, we have three states or dimensions which
represent the realm of the formal and non-formal
manifestation, as well as a fourth called the metaphysical
One, which is beyond the Spirit-Being itself.
In the Corpus Hermeticum (X, 14) it is said:
"All things depend upon a sole principle, and this principle
depends of the One and only [that is, on the One without a
second of the Vedanta tradition]. While the principle is in
movement in order to become the principle again, the One and
only stands still and is not subject to movement."
JERRY AND JAN
I think it would be cool if the Nonduality movement made it
into the list of cults to watch out for. Anyway we can push
How about this manifesto:
1. The holy first doctrine of the One beyond organizing and
2. The holy teaching that all authoritarian pyramids have
to be turned topsy-turvy by loyal members, without acting.
3. The practice of organizing disorganizing in so called
Autonomous Unity Cells.
4. The recruitment slogan "To lose is to win, Unity Cells
are helpful with the first, then one will seemingly do the
5. The holy rule of the thumb that every creature already
is a member, allowing One to remind one of that against
one's will for the sake of one's well-being and the
liquidity of the One beyond solids and liquids.
6. The koan "I bow to the victorious One of supreme
extremism, conqueror of all -isms"
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