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Highlights, Monday, October 25

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  • umbada@xx.xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxx)
    OLD HAG ...extracted from old book from the 70 s, Toward The One, by Pir Vilayat Khan, and was a guide to younger bones while going through hot three year
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 27 12:18 PM
      OLD HAG

      ...extracted from old book from the 70's, Toward The One, by
      Pir Vilayat Khan, and was a guide to younger bones while
      going through hot three year intensive in late 70's.
      Maybe someone here would enjoy, If so, fine. If not so,
      fine, too.

      "Is not suffering due to the fact that it is forced upon us?
      Suppose we would do consciously what nature does
      unconsciously? Suppose we could offer ourselves willingly
      to be molded and buffeted by life?

      We are the offering placed on the altar of the World.

      If we would sacrifice what we wish most,
      we would gain a tremendous freedom.

      This is what life asks of us,
      the greatest gift of all,
      always what we want most,
      or ourselves,
      or the innermost of ourselves,
      our own heart.

      It is the acceptance of the unacceptable
      that is asked of us.
      So, we are tested.
      To make evident whether
      our heart's treasure is
      earthly or heavenly,

      There is no Good Friday without an Easter.
      No dark night without a dawn,
      and no oppression without a release,
      and the sacrifice is followed by an outburst
      of such moment that it shakes the very
      The veil of the temple is split,
      there is a tremor on earth.

      You are resurrecting every time
      you overcome yourself."


      The Nonduality Salon Website has been updated:

      <a href="http://www.nonduality.com/new.htm">

      October 25, 1999

      Added Retreat with Francis Lucille, and brief note about
      Leonard Jacobson, both by Greg Goode, to the Satsang with
      Everyone page.

      Added Impermanence to the list of Institutions supporting
      nondual teachings.

      Added a very good and easy to read version (lots of margin
      space!) of the Tao Te Ching (sent-in by M.)

      Added the following names to the Realizers/Confessors list:
      Abbah Frederic | Madhukar Thompson | Leonard Jacobson |
      Prof. V. Krishnmurthy | Raphael

      DIANA (with Tim)

      Tim: The only thing is, the mind control and manipulation
      usually begin AFTER joining the organization.

      Diana: I can only say - absolutely not true. I was
      recruited for a cult-like group situation. If I had had ANY
      idea of what the group was really like - i would never have
      been interested.

      It was a situation of a liceNsed PhD therapist - running a
      study group for an international religious/meditation
      group. i still do not know the exact nature of the
      religious group - except that they were, at best -
      incredibly naive. At worst - deliberately toxic.

      The therapist saw that I was in the middle of a spiritual
      awakening, k rising - whatever you want to call it. He
      persuaded me that therapy with him - could help me overcome
      obstacles to my growth and development. I thought it
      sounded pretty good:) I was not really familiar with the
      term 'dual relationship' - at that point. I am well aware
      of it now:)

      He began a six month long 'seduction'. I was in private
      therapy, his meditation group (that he ran for the
      international group), and his jungian dream group. I saw
      him 3 times a week. slowly - all other social activities
      fell by the wayside - from sheer lack of time.

      He - and the other meditation group members - became my
      life. I WAS in the midst of a spiritual awakening. It was
      my life. After 6 months and meeting the teacher - the other
      shoe dropped. Major manipulation. Trance state induction -
      w/o permission. Mind control. Post hypnotic suggestion.

      It took months - for me to realize the full extent of what
      was happening. He was teaching a form of sexual tantra -
      during therapy sessions. If he had started out doing this -
      I would have bolted for the door. But this occurred - 7
      months after I began working with him. The therapy sessions
      had always been used for religious instruction anyway. The
      whole premise of my 'therapy' - had been to help me overcome
      spiritual obstacles.

      I confronted him - of course. He said he had 'permission' -
      for everything. And laughed. AT me - not with me. He
      laughed at me a lot. In the beginning - i was naive enough
      to think he was helping me to 'shed' Ego. He also said the
      teacher had told him to do - what he was doing. The teacher
      - whom i eventually asked - would not confirm this.

      If you are a therapist - you may already know the tremendous
      - and out of proportion - power a therspit can wield over
      clients. Worst case. If the therapist chooses to do so.
      This man had been active in the local psychological and
      metaphysical community. He seemed well known (and later I
      discovered for what:)

      Eventually - i noticed that most of his clients seemed to be
      females from abusive childhood backgrounds - who seemed just
      as cowed - or adoring - as I had once been. Then it all
      became clear.

      Also - I discovered that everyone in his meditation group -
      was a client. Anyone who did not consent to becoming his
      client - he ran off. Although he advertised the group in the
      religous section of the local major newspaper.

      Finally - I broke away from him. He pursued harassing me in
      the religious group - until I was expelled from it.

      I was 42 years old when I met him. I grew up in the 70's -
      and had an 'adventureous' youth - you could politely say. I
      am not a shrinking violet. I am half-way intelligent. And
      I fell for it.

      The only I can figure - I was in a low state due to
      continuing problems with my husband. I felt very
      unattractive and undesirable. I was in the midst of an
      enormous life change. There's a few risk factors for you
      right there -

      Tim: Those interested in nonduality are not seeking anything
      they don't already possess.

      Diana: Great logic! Not true however. In my case (and in
      the case of MANY people - male and female) - a major
      kundalini awakening - with no previous knowledge of what
      kundalini is - drives out small considerations like duality
      - or not.
      It is - in a word - overwhelming. I cannot imagine anyone
      being in a more vulnerable and manipulatible position.
      Since in our culture we do not normally talk about these
      things (not even admit their existence) - if something like
      this happens to a person without warning - there IS not
      explanation for it.

      But there are plenty of folks out there - willing to offer
      explanations for it. Theirs. "Stay in this group - or you
      will lose you knowledge. It comes from us". "Do what we
      say - or you will lose all connection to your spirituality.
      It is coming form us."

      Sure - after a while the truth becomes obvious. But not at
      first. Spiritual development - is too important to be left
      undiscussed. My feeling was - there may be some on this
      list (and all lists) - who have not achieved the level of
      development you obviously have:) My story - such as it is -
      is for them.

      Tim: I don't have much interest, given that if the leader
      of a cult (or ANY religious organization that I had not
      thoroughly researched)
      approached me and offered one million dollars to give that
      organization a try for a single month, I would have him
      physically ejected from the premises.

      Diana: You are not listening Tim! Cult like groups - do NOT
      recruit in that way. First object - would be to become your
      very best friend. Are you interested in having friends?



      Human societies themselves are cults, in a sense. Even
      society as a whole (globally) is a cult of sorts. We are
      all cultists until the latent freedom within us is
      discovered. Until we allow ourselves to see the prison
      bars, then take that major leap to realize that the key to
      the cell is sitting in our hand. And another major leap to
      use the key, and take that first faltering step out of our
      self-made prisons.

      The Marine Corps, political parties, organized religions
      aren't considered cults because they support the mind
      control we've all agreed to accept as reality. They use
      charisma, manipulation, images - and find ways to get what
      they believe they need from their followers, even to the
      point of taking everything at times.



      Tai chi sees a difference between energy and force.
      Energy comes from the sinews and force from the bones,
      according to tai chi theory. Therefore energy is a property
      of the supple, the alive, flexible. Force is a property of
      the hard, the dead, inflexible. Issuing energy is like
      shooting an arrow, the bow and the string derive their power
      from their elasticity, their aliveness and suppleness.

      This is true - the physical principles of Tai Chi emphasize
      the energy of sinews and flexibility. Advanced practioners
      rely on flow of chi, an energy similar to prana, not
      dependent on the physical structure, but flowing through
      it. The chi is used to "stick" to an opponent, moving with
      strength when weakness is contacted, retreating when
      strength is extended by the opponent. Balance is
      The opponent imbalances, resulting in defeat. It occurs
      very quickly and directly, unless two equal practitioners
      engage and counter each other effectively. The principles
      of Tai Chi in action are balance, "no mind", grounding, and
      flow of chi.
      Thus, it is said that "weakness defeats strength," "the
      fluid overcomes the solid," "chi [internal energy] overcomes
      [external, muscular] force", and one fights without
      fighting, moves without moving, acts without doing.

      amazing energies, i see their psychological equivalent at
      the same time. I would love to see spontaneously - this
      undivided reflection simultaneously - combined in every
      actuality presented to my human viewpoint.




      We experienced intensely departing from our mothers womb and
      its been one solidly and separately placed manifestation
      after another since then. From that perspective distance
      still rules most of us, illusory or not. 6 billion people
      are not coming to the realization that all is conceptual too
      easily on this planet.

      "many are called but few are chosen"
      "it is more difficult for a camel to pass through the eye of
      a needle than a rich person to enter the Kingdom"
      "you cannot serve God and Mammon together"

      there's no other way.
      there's only the way of total relinquishment, even
      relinquishment of relinquishing.
      not even "nothing" is left...

      I'm not saying this to claim there is a way, or I know the
      way. This is, in my opinion, why Jesus reportedly said, "I
      am the way" -- a greatly misinterpreted statement.

      --- love ---


      The Mountain Path Vol. 1 - July 1964 - No. 3

      Seeing It Simply By Wei Wu Wei

      All objectivisation is conceptual, all conceptuality is
      inference, and all inference is as empty of truth as a
      vacuum is empty of air. Moreover there is no truth, never
      has been and never could be; there is no thus-ness,
      such-ness, is-ness, nor anything positive or negative
      whatever. There is just absolute absence of the cognisable,
      which is absolute presence of the unthinkable and the
      unknowable � which neither is nor is not. Inferentially
      this is said to be an immense and radiant splendour
      untrammelled by notions of time and space, and utterly
      beyond the dim, reflected sentience of temporal and finite

      --contributed by Harsha


      More Wei Wu Wei (contributed by Bob Bays)


      I move, Space becomes (as a result of my movement), Time is
      born (as a measure of my movement in space), I have objects
      (because I have become the subject of space and time),
      Dualism is established, The Universe appears, I identify
      myself with my objects (and there are illusory egos), I
      suffer illusorily (and suffering becomes universal).


      I repose, Space vanishes (for I have ceased to move), Time
      ceases (for there is no movement to measure), There are no
      objects (for I am no longer a subject), Dualism is no more,
      The Universe disappears, There are no illusory egos, There
      is no suffering, I am, but there is no 'me'.

      (From "All Else Is Bondage", 1964)


      The Pathway of Nonduality

      by Raphael

      Chapter 7

      The Three States of Being (concluded)

      Prajna is the germinal, causal state, that is, the state
      from which the determinations of manifestation arise. It is
      the geometrical point which, while having no dimension, is
      the origin of the line and the plane. It is the noumenon,
      it is a germ containing being in all its potentiality.

      The entity jiva-prajna manifests itself upon the existential
      level of Being, of Isvara; this is the Brahmaloka level, the
      abode of Brahma, where multiplicity dissolves into unity.
      In it we can see how the three states are but one having
      different modes of expression; in it there are no
      distinctions, there is no duality, there is no opposition.
      He who discovers this condition has the privilege of seeing
      the unity of life, of understanding how consciousness has
      become so vast as to embrace the whole of existence. The
      entities and the planes are not without but within oneself,
      because there is no without and therefore no within.
      Oneness 'is', and it is everywhere in its indivisibility.

      Prajna is assimilated to deep dreamless sleep, because in
      prajna everything goes back to silence, to non-becoming, to
      non-motion. Therefore, waking, dreaming and deep dreamless
      sleep correspond to vaisvanara, taijasa and prajna, and as
      waking, dreaming and deep sleep are experienced by a sole
      witness, so vaisvanara, the gross state, taijasa, the subtle
      state and prajna, the germinal state, are all experienced by
      one and the same witness (saksin), the only real and
      constant factor, while the three states appear and
      disappear. This witness, also called avasthatrayasaksin
      (witness of the three states) is a reflection, on the plane
      of the manifest, of the transcendent Brahman-atman (the
      Fourth) beyond the three states, while at the same time
      permeating them.

      Q. Have these states a correspondence with other
      traditional Branches?

      A. Yes, according to the Mysterical Tradition, synthesized
      by Plotinus, we have three states or dimensions which
      represent the realm of the formal and non-formal
      manifestation, as well as a fourth called the metaphysical
      One, which is beyond the Spirit-Being itself.

      In the Corpus Hermeticum (X, 14) it is said:

      "All things depend upon a sole principle, and this principle
      depends of the One and only [that is, on the One without a
      second of the Vedanta tradition]. While the principle is in
      movement in order to become the principle again, the One and
      only stands still and is not subject to movement."


      I think it would be cool if the Nonduality movement made it
      into the list of cults to watch out for. Anyway we can push
      for that?

      Krazy Katz


      How about this manifesto:

      1. The holy first doctrine of the One beyond organizing and
      2. The holy teaching that all authoritarian pyramids have
      to be turned topsy-turvy by loyal members, without acting.
      3. The practice of organizing disorganizing in so called
      Autonomous Unity Cells.
      4. The recruitment slogan "To lose is to win, Unity Cells
      are helpful with the first, then one will seemingly do the
      5. The holy rule of the thumb that every creature already
      is a member, allowing One to remind one of that against
      one's will for the sake of one's well-being and the
      liquidity of the One beyond solids and liquids.
      6. The koan "I bow to the victorious One of supreme
      extremism, conqueror of all -isms"

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