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Highlights Tuesday 19 Oct.

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  • andrew macnab
    Larry: Hi. I m new to the web, new to lists, and generally don t know what I m doing. So I thought I would ask a question and see what happens. Is realization
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 21, 1999
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      Larry:

      Hi. I'm new to the web, new to lists, and generally don't know what I'm
      doing. So I thought I would ask a question and see what happens. Is
      realization an experience, an understanding, an obsession, a
      modification to the mental hardware or what?

      Jerry:

      It's a row of Humpty Dumpty's on a wall.

      Tim:

      Realization is the falling away of ignorance as to who you are. That
      ignorance is mostly a matter of identification with and clinging to the
      unreal. When the unreal is removed, what else could remain but the
      real?
      That is realization.

      xan:

      Realization could be any of those things on your list
      depending on the person and on the moment.

      There is however a *Real* to recognize as your own self
      beyond memory, identity, concept and process and right
      here, now.

      andrew:

      I generally don't know what I'm doing too :-) Hey maybe
      realization is generally not knowing what you're doing! There are a lot
      of ways of approaching a definition of realization, one that occurs to
      me right now; Realisation is the understanding that there is no
      _________ . You can fill in the blank with many different words, for
      example; self, enlightenment, continuity, mind, hope, fear.


      Dan:
      Not a modification, only reality itself is realization.
      People try to find words to talk about it and start sounding
      obsessed. Understanding it involves letting go of assumptions,
      being able to let go of trying to get somewhere other than
      where One is. Understanding is thus often discussed as "unknowing."
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Petros: movie review, The Fight Club

      This is another one of those weird reality-twisting movies that does
      have
      something to say about getting to a deeper experience of life through
      trauma
      and danger. There are some strong mystical undertones here for anyone
      who
      pays attention. (There is a *very* esoteric plot twist towards the end
      of
      the film which is quite startling, but I won't give it away here!)

      The movie is basically about an (unnamed) geeky, nine-to-five kind of
      guy
      (Edward Norton) who is beginning to feel the meaninglessness of his
      mundane
      existence until he "accidentally" runs into a psychotic, socially
      marginalized guy named Tyler (Brad Pitt.) Tyler is really some sort of
      crazy-wise guru or trickster who intends to awaken people by destroying
      their mundane lives. He does this quite successfully in the film
      through
      the creation of a "Fight Club" and later a "Project Mayhem."

      There's one very interesting scene where Tyler and Norton's character
      are
      sitting at the kitchen table and Tyler grabs Norton's hand and pours lye
      over it, causing the flesh to sear and burn. Norton's character tries
      frantically to numb the pain with new-age visualization techniques while
      Tyler slaps him repeatedly, holds him tighter and calls him to
      experience
      the pain in the present moment instead of trying to escape from it.
      "When
      you lose everything, you learn that you can do everything" is Tyler's
      message to the guy.

      There's another cool scene where Tyler tries to teach his reluctant
      student
      about trusting the will of the universe (surrender) by stealing a
      limosine
      and going the wrong way down the street towards oncoming traffic.
      Norton's
      character tries to grab the steering wheel a few times while Tyler
      insists
      on asking him -- "If you died right now, would you have any regrets?"
      and
      demanding an answer. The student finally surrenders and admits that his
      life
      has been a waste up until now. He relaxes, while Tyler floors the
      accelerator and keeps his hands off the wheel while the car veers to the
      side of the road, smashes into another car and goes rolling off the
      embankment sending the occupants sprawling -- severely banged up but
      much
      more enlightened.

      For some reason the film also reminds me of "The Matrix" or "Jacob's
      Ladder." There's a lot of what could only be called "psychological
      special
      effects," strange manipulations of the film designed to create a
      reality-warping sensation. Some of these tweaks last only a single frame
      and
      you might easily mistake them for problems with the projector but they
      are
      not. The funky psychological twist near the end of the film practically
      reverses the movie's whole meaning and I think it would make a second
      viewing very rewarding. I'll find out!
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Jerry posted:

      The Pathway of Nonduality

      by Raphael

      Chapter 6

      Metaphysical Realization (continued)

      Q. So there is freedom of the ego and freedom from the ego,
      is there not?

      A. Yes, the ego-snake, in order to be able to gratify all
      sorts of insatiable desires , needs to be without
      impediments or to feel free to actuate all it wishes. And
      this is impossible due to the very nature of existence; but
      even if we conceded to the ego any kind of freedom, it would
      not be happy or fulfilled. Why? Because fulfillment is not
      in the nature of the ego, as this is only a false product or
      a false representation. What does not exist potentially
      cannot actuate or realize itself. Although the moon may wish
      to appropriate light from outside of itself, it will never
      become a sun. The human physical body, though it may live
      for any incredible length of time, will never become
      immortal because one cannot 'become' but 'is' immortal; and
      if one 'is', one does not seek immortality.

      The empirical ego, because 'it is not', has to find its
      fulfillment, its raison d'etre and its realization 'outside
      itself'; and indeed it is obliged to, it needs to. This
      means that at best it may find some kind of gratification,
      but a gratification that comes from other than itself cannot
      be permanent bliss-fulfillment. If one is dependent and
      under the sway of the law of necessity one cannot be in
      harmony, pacified, blissful and fulfilled. If the empirical
      ego is searching, desiring and longing for, it means that it
      'is not' and every one of its realizations is a false
      realization, a false achievement.

      Q. Therefore metaphysical realization is needed. What does
      this concept mean?

      A. We have already spoken about realization and now we shall
      apply ourselves to understand the term metaphysics.

      Originally the term metaphysics meant a series of texts
      which, on the basis of the order given to the Work of
      Aristotle, came after the texts called 'Physics'. The
      subject treated by Aristotle in that Series of writings was
      called Philosophia Prima.

      In time the term took on the meaning of 'beyond' matters
      belonging to the physical sphere, to become the 'science of
      the real in itself, seen as beyond immediate tangible
      appearance'.

      >From this point of view metaphysics has a position of
      superiority compared with the other fields of knowledge.
      Above all the various sciences of the finite, which deal
      with the partial, phenomenal and incomplete relations of
      being, there is the science of Reality in itself.

      Metaphysics is the science of aseity (the property of a
      being which has in itself the reason and the end of its own
      existence), while physics is the science of abaliety (the
      property of a being which finds the reason of its existence
      in other than itself).

      We may also add that physics deals with the
      relative-contingent, which depends on other than itself,
      while metaphysics deals with what is or the Absolute and
      this rests on itself, with itself and for itself.

      If we understand the term metaphysics then metaphysical
      realization means the achievement of the Absolute or of
      aseity.

      Q. Can we go deeper into the concept of the Absolute?

      A. According to the philosopher G. Zamboni, the term
      Absolute means: "Etymologically that which is free from
      relations, or which exists and is what it is, without any
      need to be in relation with anything else, or what is fully
      sufficient, fully independent to exist or to be what it
      is.... With the concept of being or entity or reality the
      idea of totality is formed: 'all that exists', 'all
      Reality', 'the whole of Reality', outside of which there is
      nothing. The 'whole of Reality' cannot depend on something
      else outside of itself, because outside of it there is a
      mere nothing; thus the totality of what exists has in itself
      full sufficiency to exist and full independence. Either the
      'totality of Reality' is itself the Absolute and the
      Independent or else It contains them. In any case the
      Absolute exists; one cannot doubt it; if anything, the
      existence of the insufficient and the dependent and its
      relation with the Absolute is less clear. But certainly, if
      there is something that exists, the Absolute exists."

      Metaphysical realization therefore aims at the actuation of
      what is 'free from relations', of what has 'no need to be in
      relation with anything else', because it is aseity. Let us
      see what Gaudapada says in his karikas to the Mandukya
      Upanisad (IV, 2 and III, 39):

      "I bow to this yoga -- taught by the Scriptures -- well
      known as asparsa, free from relations, beneficial, generator
      of beatitude for all beings, free from oppositions and
      contradicions...."

      "This yoga which is called asparsa (without contact or
      relation) is difficult to understand for many yogins because
      they, feeling fear where there is none, are afraid of it."
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Tim:

      "Happiness" is the opposite of "misery" (as though they were opposite
      poles
      of the same magnet) and is part of duality (maya/ignorance), the veil
      that
      obscures reality. Best to be free of both and simply *be* the
      unchanging
      bliss of homogeneity. Worldly misery goes along with worldly happiness
      and
      is part of the same wheel that goes round and round and round and round
      and
      round... Thanks, but that merry-go-round is getting old.
      ________________________________________________________________________


      Judi:

      <snip> Identity crumbles right in
      front of your very eyes!! Implosion. The only way for someone to
      understand it
      is to go thru it themselves. And for that to happen I think a person has
      to want the truth at any expense. Overwhelming desire for the truth, no
      matter what the outcome. Put their intelligence to work.

      Dan:

      The desire for the truth is correlated with the extent the truth
      has been "hidden" or "distorted." There is no one doing this
      "distorting"
      but myself. The more I desire the truth, the more I see it is
      always only me who is obscuring it. It turns out that in desiring
      truth, I am desiring to be who I am,
      and what is "obscuring" this is whatever extent I can
      convince myself that I am "other" than who I am. All these "me's" --
      so many "others" seeking Me, while convincing themselves they are not
      who I am, not willing to live Truth and Truly, pretending they want Me.
      ________________________________________________________________________

      xan:

      My own experience is that there are different levels of
      enlightenment. The further I go in self inquiry and Self
      discovery the more subtle experiences become. The
      understandings and
      definitions I had previously tend
      to fade in the face of what is simple Here.

      I do know this about the process of enlightenment we
      are in: It destroys definitions and expectations - all of
      them but not all at once.
      ________________________________________________________________________


      Dan: Splitting hairs can be fun --
      as the split one leads to another,
      it can never be undone...
      When a billion hairs are all in one
      With one in all we'll all have fun!!
      ________________________________________________________________________
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