Highlights, Sat, Oct. 16
There's a great cure when feeling perplexed. Just sit back,
close your eyes and mentally (or out loud) chant OM until
everything is gone but OM (it shouldn't take long, if you're
paying attention to the sound).
The Buddhist "nam myoho renge kyo" also seems to be
excellent for clearing the mind. Slow and low seems to be
Anyone who thinks "I left" has no understanding of the
nondual. Can I, who am Presence, leave? Do you not
experience Me in deep sleep? Am I not (with)you always?
There is OM. OM is "I don't know" with a turbocharger.
Ya know, this nonduality stuff does funny things to a
person. I can't watch a movie anymore with even the
slightest touching scene without a tear running down my
cheek. If the scene involves love and is very moving, I
find myself completely blinded by tears for minutes
afterward. Luckily, it doesn't seem to bother me, even in a
crowded theater where people would notice.
Let's have a fight over who is the servant :-) Wouldn't it
or maybe we can simply serve each other.
For me [nonduality] is to bring life to the office the
office to life and to play at all of it ... which everyone
knowing everyone is doing their best with what they have
where they are right at that moment ... it is easy so that
there is nonduality there ... when it isn't easy ...
and there are waves in the still pool ... i come read here
and bring the pool back there ... :-) so, thank you all
for being here ... there's a dolphin who taught me how to
do this :-)
DAN RESPONDS TO ANDREW:
ANDREW: There's a fear of annihilation, death, ultimate
loss, which presents a barrier. It is as real as stepping
off a cliff, a plunging sensation in the pit of the
stomach. I'm wondering how if the separate self does not in
reality exist it can feel this fear.
DAN: The deepest barrier is at the core of the human race's
"mind". Intellectual answers don't work here, this is how I
hear what you're saying. This fear I view as an aspect of
the desire for continued existence.
The fear is simply the "recoil" reaction against perceptions
that indicate the inevitability of not being able to
indefinitely maintain and continue "existence".
I agree that looking deeply and clearly into this
desire/fear is very useful.
My perspective here is that the separate self doesn't need
to be real for a collective desire and fear to be generated
and maintained. If all behave according to a belief that
existence for a separated self is real and possible and that
belief functions as a key to the working of the "relative
mind," then the results of ensuing behavior become the
conditioning that maintains the belief (and the
desire/fear). In other words, the interaction of perceived
need, belief, behavior, and consequences function as an
ongoing "loop" regardless of the illusory nature of any
truly separate self.
'Separate self' is the story of the movement of desire/fear,
the line it draws. (song it sings) The movement is
intricate, many frequencies harmonic and chaotic, a unique
combination making an individual. All the pluses and
minuses add up to zero. 10000 --> 1 --> 0.
Becky, there is an experience one has where the "pains of
the world are felt as one's own, yes, this is very valid and
very intense :-)
One could say, identifications won't disappear without
having known their existence so no one can escape from a
period of being strongly reminded of pain; the power of
perception can increase to the extent that past, present and
future will merge. So as Annette says, it can be very
intense. You can't run or hide from it.
The major cause of this suffering is not having undergone
pain, but having caused pain to "others"; ignorance of the
fact there are no "others" isn't an excuse. Not knowing the
laws of nature doesn't prevent these laws from operating..
So jokingly, Buddhism could be called the path to take when
it is "too late" (having caused suffering already and
suffering the consequences) whereas Jainism could be called
the path, intending not to cause suffering at all (Ahimsa).
Purohit Swami comments on Ahimsa:
"All life is sacred, all life is one; no one has a right to
question the sacredness of another, no one has a right to
commit violence against another. The yogi who wants to find
the unity of life, should not break that unity. Thought,
word, or deed, unconsciously willed, may create misery. Men
differ in temperament, character, environment, but they all
stand on the one rock of Self, and when man commits violence
on man, he commits it on himself; he may not know the law,
but the law will claim him, if not here, certainly
DAN RESPONDS TO GENE:
DAN: Gene, You raise a point that I find intriguing -
meta-awareness. (This is related to metacognition, the
ability to think about how I think.) Meta-awareness looks
thusly: Can I be aware of how I question, the nature of
questioning itself? Can I be aware of the
"questioning-awareness itself"? If so, what kind of
awareness is *this*? Calling it meta-awareness hints at a
multidimensional being, unconditioned by time and space.
This meta-awareness also is involved in looking at the
effects and limits of language and thought, as you indicated
later in your message.
GENE: To realize that doors can be opened, is useful; it is
also useful to know that a peek inside can reveal that we
need not pass through those doors. The ability to open
doors is necessary, passing through is optional.
DAN: Yes, a very useful observation, Gene. Indeed, if I am
aware from "meta-awareness", then I see the door from the
"other side" and the whole idea of opening it is no longer
GENE: I am with another person, I am looking and we are
talking. Beneath or above the level of conversation, I am
remembering to observe myself. I am aware that I am
observing myself, and that I am also observing this other
person, who is observing me (but is he observing himself?).
There is so much monitoring going on, so many points being
viewed and viewed from.
Suddenly I am aware that the entire process is quite
effortless, and that what is observing, is awareness. I am
aware that I am aware of the observational powers of
awareness, and it is by awareness that I am aware of this.
For me, in this way, is the question of 'a separate self'
resolved, in the dynamic of relating, rather than in the
abstract of 'offline' considering.
Even now, I find no satisfactory way to express now, what I
'know' in the moment of actual being-with; so my point is
that it is one thing to consider this question of 'a
separate self' as a puzzle, but another to consider it while
actually being-with another. It is the dynamic
being-experience which is satisfying to me. In that
recognition, I realize the benevolence of this 'separate
self', that it is aware of itself, that it loves itself. In
this recognition, any sense of separation seems to
evaporate, leaving only warmth and good feelings.
DAN: What you are considering here, Gene, I've looked at as
well. It's natural enough to be aware of oneself with
another, and aware that the other is aware of "this one",
and viewing communication as revealing mutual "other
perceptions." When awareness arises "in the midst of this"
it's quite a feeling. I do associate awareness as such with
the feeling that one is worthwhile, able to contribute, able
to release unnecessarily limiting or distorting ways of
thinking and reacting. Awareness as such sometimes "bursts
through" the mutual perception of the "other" and it's quite
remarkable to be talking, dealing with these mutual
perceptions, and being aware of the awareness that is aware
of each and all simultaneously.
GENE: Perhaps... this has something to do with the typical
Hindu prescription of a living Guru, as the ultimate and
necessary step of resolution in these matters. Perhaps it
is the living Guru who can recognize and thus share, the
living 'truth' of Being. Perhaps also, this is how it is
resolved to overcome scriptures, with knowing.
DAN: We had a long-ago conversation in which you used this
term and I was baffled. Now, it is more clear to me the
meaning you have for the term "living human Guru." If I
reframe this concept as "living relational awareness" is
that nearly equivalent? Then, I see this "living human
as "working through" Jesus, Mary Magdelene, me, you, anyone
who is "infiltrated" by the Living One, anyone whose
awareness in relation allows arising of One beyond
relation. "Where two or more are gathered, I am in the
midst of them."
"The Kingdom of Heaven is in the midst of you." The One
beyond relation (with no other) lives in relationship *as*
TIM RESPONDS TO PHIL:
PHIL: Earthquake. It's all illusion. Enjoy the show.
Lessee who gets piqued at that! ;)
TIM: Anyone with a deep nondual perspective should be able
to respect that statement. What is death? Were we ever
born? Can we be killed? Are we matter, or are we spirit?
Can we take the "long term" perspective and see that we are
eternal beings, and death is nothing but a minor transition,
if even that?
Just a one hour, very deep meditation on death will show
that these things are true. Grace Herself supplies the
Supposedly, Seattle is due for a huge earthquake "any day
now." I've heard predictions as high as 8-9 on the richter
scale. Enough to level the city completely and kill 75% of
It may be good to let this body go, to be free of that
constriction. Often I feel I've lived too long already.
It's hard to live in physical form.
Funny thing about silence- you just can't get rid of the
It's Everywhere !!!!
Also funny is the idea of a Me capable of pretending Silence
has been covered over by the insubstantiality of thoughts.
One good thing about giving up trying to understand the
I giggle a lot more.
Sometimes there is a definite impression that the world is
just an image of a spinning gyroscope. It spins and sways
and teeters. In deep sleep and death it vanishes.
Meanwhile, in the waking state, round and around it seems to
go. You "leave" and then "return" -- and yet you really do
not move at all.
Today just now watching a movie an insight into phenomenal
nature came into being. The movie appears to unfold
sequentially, like a passage of time. And yet it is
simultaneous in fact. All the elements of the film are
present in the film reel. A certain Greek philosopher
--Plato I think
-- called time a "moving image of eternity". That seems to
fit here. All the elements of "this life" are indeed
present now, like the elements of the film. There is
apparent coming and going, but really nothing is happening
the way we think it is.
PETROS QUOTING BYRON KATIE:
"It takes an absolute love of God. Is it 'I love God,' or
is it 'I love God sometimes when he's giving me the reality
I want?' War is what is. It's nature. It's what is
sometimes. It's not personal. If someone (God, 'what is')
pulls my baby from me -- if that's what it takes, I'm
there. Take the baby. Tear my baby from me. Throw it in
the fire. What does it take for me to get this thing? What
does it take for me to understand that I am a lover of 'What
is, God?' My discomfort *is* my war with God. It's my war
with reality the way it is, and not the 'loss' of my baby.
You see, there are no choices. What is, is. When you know
that, it's over. And it's beyond full acceptance, it's the
love of itself, the love of God. There is nothing
terrible. Shall I say it again? There is nothing
terrible. There has never been anything terrible. There
will never be anything terrible. But when we get to the
baby thing, we're getting down to our sacred little concepts
. . . Me, me, me, me in the name of the baby. I'm the
one in hell. It's all about you're destroying my dream.
That's all. You take my baby from me, you're messing with
the illusion of I'm the mommy, this is the baby, there's the
daddy, we're going to raise it, happy-ever-after fairy
tale. But tearing the baby away -- that's the higher.
Because it snatches your story from you and makes it
apparent in your face -- nothing's real short of reality.
The baby's gone and you're left with you and your thinking."
"I want you to have what you want. Because that's what is.
But if you come to me, and you present yourself in such a
way that is asking, or is interpreted as an asking, then I
am going to take that. I'm going to get your baby and I'm
going to throw it in the fire, your baby love. It will give
you, beyond a concept, that which you wanted really. It
will leave you as That."
"And I'm not speaking of not holding onto your baby with
your arms and your cries. I'm speaking only of how you hold
onto the baby internally -- how loud is the screaming
You know what I find interesting is that there really is no
enlightening anybody else. People are gonna get it when
they're gonna get it.
And no one knows how or when that is going to occur. The
spiritual path is each person's individual life itself, like
a fruit on a tree each one ripens and falls. In other
words, it's a totally private affair.
There is no teaching. Should come as a shock to some of you
guys who are looking for a teaching, or even worse, those of
you who think you've found one!!! A sobering affair.
Sometimes in Nova Scotia it gets so cold you can't slip on
the ice because it doesn't melt from the friction of the
boot. At least that's how it seems. Things aren't so rigid
in this email community. I sense a slipperiness, a lack of
footing, but not without assurance and poise.
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