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Highlights for Sat., October 9

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  • umbada@xx.xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxx)
    Jan headlines in this edition. You ll even find a link to his little known home page. Not included are Petros reports on Satsang with Byron Katie. So far they
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 10, 1999
      Jan headlines in this edition. You'll even find a link to
      his little known home page. Not included are Petros' reports
      on Satsang with Byron Katie. So far they include several
      letters with more coming. I'd like to present them in a
      special supplemental posting, probably tomorrow.

      Very soon you'll be seeing more editors, as we are finding
      replacements for Bruce and Melody who are on well-deserved
      sabbaticals. If anyone else wants to volunteer one day a
      week, write me.



      It wasn't meant to hurt or offend; it is difficult to see
      there exists nothing "outside" enlightenment; this is the
      nondual sound so at the NDS I used the extremes. But for
      practical reasons, from the perspective of multiplicity of
      individual bodies, there is "this body" and "other ones"; it
      has been usage to consider someone enlightened when the real
      nature is recognized and if this recognition doesn't lead to
      changes in personality, perspectives, behavior etc., it is
      safe to say enlightenment didn't have much of an impact.

      * If is enlightenment or recognition of real nature is
      considered to be an event with certain consequences like a
      change of behavior, it is safe to say that this assumption
      is just another concept.

      Enlightenment isn't a safeguard against wackiness or
      distorted views, because in principle, recognition always is
      possible; Hitler certainly had an agenda for his version of

      Self nature, Reality, includes the opposites of creation and
      destruction. Whether Hitler realized his nature as such, is
      too late to ask. If he indeed would have recognized himself
      as being all and everything, while being nothing at all,
      would he have had the compulsion to identify himself as
      '´┐Żbermensch', being better and superior to the rest?

      True wisdom, even in the role of a destroyer, is not
      displayed by conveying concepts. It is conveyed by exposing

      Recognition of Self does not necessarily lead to a typical
      kind of behavior. Absorbtion in Self is not interfered with
      by physical activities. Absorbtion in Self is not dependend
      on the behavior of the body. It may or may not sleep less.
      It may or may not eat less. It may or may not sit down on a
      chair staring at the floor. Behavior has nothing to do with
      that recognition. It may or may not change after
      recognition. To say enlightenment 'should' lead to this...
      and this... and this..., is always a concept, bound to be
      proven wrong by the next recognition of Self.



      There are no fixed rules or regulations; from my experience
      it is tempting to conclude that taking everything as it
      comes, is an important tool. It is a result of knowing,
      there is nowhere to go, nowhere to hide and nowhere to
      stay. One cannot run or flee from experiences; getting mad
      while caught in a traffic jam doesn't solve anything.
      Living as if each moment is the last one, implies among
      others one cannot blame so there is nothing to forgive;
      meditate on that...

      Fear is based on losing and fear of death could be called
      the impression of losing body that survives the grave. In
      my case, losing the fear of death and giving up the "will to
      live and enjoy" was what started the spontaneous sadhana.
      More can be read at

      The next discovery was the existence of a fear to enter
      nirvikalpa samadhi; in my case, the entering wasn't a skill
      but was forced and going into nirvikalpa samadhi in the
      presence of "others" felt like having to leave one's house
      with all doors and windows wide open :) Of course, the
      experiential knowledge of Being without support extinguishes
      all fears so this most hidden fear is met just once :)

      Techniques, meditation, work, this all is concerning the
      A rather literal translation of the Patanjali sutras (I,1)
      and (I,2) is:
      1. Now, an exposition of Yoga (is to be made).
      2. Yoga is the suppression of the transformations of the
      thinking principle.
      Part of the commentary on 2.:
      "The thinking principle" is a comprehensive expression equal
      to the Sanskrit word Antahkarana ("inner instrument") which
      is divided into 4 parts: Manas (mind), the principle that
      cognizes generally; Chitta (individualizing), the idea which
      fixes itself upon a point and makes the object its own by
      individualizing it; Ahamkara (egoism, "I-maker"), the
      principle which connects the individual with the self; and
      Buddhi (reason, sometimes called "higher mind" as opposed to
      manas, sometimes called "lower mind").

      The antahkarana is said to represent the psyche; this is
      what "mind-work" is aimed at.

      Ascent and descent are referring to the interpretation of
      prana in the nadis; no one will experience the same. Even
      when physiologically the experiences would be the same, the
      interpretation still could be different.

      Without the "I-maker", a notion of separateness, fear,
      confinement to a body, can no longer arise. This means that
      all words have become irrelevant as "just being" is the most
      ordinary thing in life, yet is most fulfilling and words
      cannot possibly express that.

      Balancing would mean having to juggle with pairs of
      opposites, whereas "just being"
      implies nothing remains to balance out.

      >From a perspective of "unifying the opposites", K. could be
      called the "ride that ultimately will unify all opposites".
      There are as many perspectives as there are (seemingly)
      separate minds; if mind experientially is seen to be one,
      all perspectives are known. A free translation of Patanjali
      31) is: Mind without impurity and impediment, attains
      infinite knowledge; what is worth knowing in this world
      becomes negligible.



      Alchemy is, yes, a process. It recognizes that *one* peak
      experience does not make for total enlightenment. There are
      many deaths, not one death. And we die so as so to live, to
      awaken. If one has not had this experience then it makes no
      sense, then you have just more words and more concepts. So,
      it is penetrating more deeply into the nature of this
      reality through experience and knowing, not understanding a

      There are many roads to Rome, but there are some experiences
      that are road signs to Masters, that are evidence of where
      the student is. Now, if you are going to say "one
      experience," is sufficient and I am awake, my response is
      you have an ego that still needs alot of kundalini fire.
      Ego, is one of the stumbling rocks on the road. So, in
      alchemy travel then there are words and phrases used which
      sound like just more words until they are experienced as
      energy and as the whole of life. Words can never convey
      these experiences, but what can happen is that someone
      writes words, I read them and later I think, "oh, dang,
      that's what she was talking about."

      So, for example, the "philosopher's stone," has a meaning of
      firing a chakra so much that it becomes like a diamond,
      these words are used in texts from Tibetan Bhuddism to
      Judaic Qabalah and the more one knows the more they are the
      same, not different.

      I am very lucky in that in my childhood there were people
      who did not dismiss these events as being imaginary nor did
      they make a big deal of them they just said, "okay, so not a
      big deal, just be honest."

      Having just spent four years in Tree travel with an
      exceptionally advanced Teacher, I just told her last week,
      "enough," I have had enough fire I need to just get down to
      normal kundalini. We travelled with ten people, and lost
      some who couldn't handle the fire along the way. It is not
      easy. What looks easy under normal life pressure becomes
      much more intense under high kundalini fire and kundalini
      like arithmetic to physics has levels.

      When Jan said he died, that's exactly what he meant, because
      when one has the experience of dying to personality and
      surrendering to Soul, then one really, at least, I really
      thought, I was dying, it scared the Hell out of me, but I
      managed to surrender and then, phew *g*, but this happens
      more than once at different stages and it is past the mystic
      experiences and so on. (And, if I misunderstood or
      misquoted you feel free to correct me.)

      So, the beginning the k fires the dross and then it fires
      the more subtle energetic realms so, that first the physical
      body is effected and cleared, then the emotional body and
      then the mental body ... the mental being one of the most
      difficult to get past because we are attached to our notions
      of "this is it, this is all, now i get it."

      There are ever yet more layers, that only in the here and
      now is God pervading everywhere and everything. Someone
      wrote, "when I write a check this is not God."
      Umm, yes, actually this is God too. This past year, I had
      to go home because the k fired so hard for several months,
      and i said, "God, look, I have a child to take care of and
      the house to clean, I can't walk around so fired that I
      can't think straight." God's response was that I didn't
      trust Him and that it would be okay. And, the money dropped
      out of the sky and it was okay.

      So, this is Alchemy, to study Cosmic Law and to understand
      that arithmetic is not Calculus, that Dr. Suess is not
      Plato, most deep thinkers through the centuries have
      explored alchemy, simply because after one explores anything
      deeply this becomes the last veil to understanding any
      subject at all, Einstein, Jung, Goethe, Plato, St. Francis,
      Dalai Lama, etc., all ended and some began with studying
      alchemy. Please do not make me go hunting for their quotes,
      I can do that and use them to support what I say but I
      prefer that if it interests you that you study yourself and
      find your own path.

      Explaining Alchemy in an email is like explaining the entire
      field of Chemistry in an email, the TCA cycle is enough with
      tiny letters to fill a forty by twenty foot living room with
      all the chemical reactions that occur, so, this is not to be
      considered a really good explanation, it is merely an
      attempt on my part to say this is a field like chemistry is
      a field.

      The universe is rather large *g* there are many fields to
      play in and even Einstein never found the key to his "GUT"
      theory in numbers, it is in the experience.

      I hope this small explanation is helpful.



      Jan: <snip> Don't forget Hitler, Mussolini, man-eating
      emperor Bocassa and Stalin were enlightened too.

      Dan: I think you are pointing to enlightenment as including
      "all that is."Hitler and Mussolini are "fragments" of all
      that is. In fact, so are the personages of Gautama, Ramana,
      Jesus, Mohammed or Moses. So to take in "all that is" "all
      at once" is not to mistake a fragment for the Whole, but to
      see the Whole activated in each and every fragment.

      Jan: <<The behavior will testify whether and what the
      mortal shell "gets out of it".

      Dan: "By their fruits you shall know them." Does the
      fragment realize it and all are activations of One, or does
      the fragment operate like a finger trying to behave
      independently from the hand?

      Enlightenment is default; in fact very ordinary. So by
      itself it won't end the tendency to find pleasures "outside"
      like relationships and entertainment; whereas for ones like
      Ramana the bliss of Self is all that matters.

      Dan: This is why someone like Ramana is used as a symbol of
      the Whole as fragment and fragment as Whole. Which is what
      Jesus symbolized as well.Such "pointers" suggest that we
      "find" what the symbol points to, and not focus attention on
      the symbol as an end in itself.

      Jan: <snip> it has been usage to consider someone
      enlightened when the real nature is recognized and if this
      recognition doesn't lead to changes in personality,
      perspectives, behavior etc., it is safe to say enlightenment
      didn't have much of an impact.

      For me, you raise a very good point here. Constructive
      changes such as you mention are inevitable as the "fragment"
      recognizes its inherent nonfragmented being. It then can
      only act resonantly with "all that is" -- could a person
      such as a Hitler or Mussolini be acting in awareness,
      resonantly with all that is? It seems the opposite, that
      they are acting resonantly with all that is only
      unconsciously, and such resonation leads them to "act out"
      the unconscious motives, hatreds, etc. with those around
      them. To me, looking at all this shows the value of
      awareness as such, and the difficulties for us when we take
      unconsciousness for awareness -- as you said, Hitler had a
      spiritual agenda" and those who took this as such were
      willing to take the encouragement to remain unconscious as
      spirituality. I feel what we get at here is the
      differentiation between remaining comfortably unaware in an
      oceanic feeling of emotion, patriotism, and destruction or
      facing the "discomfort" of awakening by dealing clearly with
      "all that is"
      as Self.

      Enlightenment isn't a safeguard against wackiness or
      distorted views, because in principle, recognition always is
      possible; Hitler certainly had an agenda for his version of

      Dan: As did Charlie Manson. And he did recognize something
      to some extent. However, the rage in him did not quiet, and
      he "used" enlightenment for the ends of his rage. The
      fragment did not surrender to the Whole, but attempted to
      use some awareness of the Whole toward its ends. This is
      the general trend associated with imbalanced practice on the
      "Left Hand Path" but such imbalance occurs in its own way on
      the "Right Hand Path." Only the Middle Way is the
      "safeguard" to which you alluded. Only if the fragment
      recognizes the Whole as fully Self, and the self as fully in
      and from the Self, can the constructive changes you alluded
      to be fulfilled.



      Since there are many cat lovers here, I'd thought I'd send
      the following. I received an email yesterday, on the day of
      Dolores' (my late wife's) birthday, coincidentally. It's
      about cat's and starfish and people and is heartfelt,
      genuine and touching. A birthday gift to Dolores. The lady
      who wrote it, Mary McCloud-Reid, stayed in our bed and
      breakfast. I don't remember her, but I guarantee you
      Dolores would have. ("Yes, I remember eXACtly who they
      Here's the letter...

      Oh Jerry I am so very sorry to hear that Delores has passed
      away. I cannot tell you how often I have thought of both of
      you. My husband and I stayed there many years ago when you
      had Comere, your cat. I remember the story of how the kitty
      got that name because you would just say come here. I wrote
      to you both a few years after visiting and learned that
      Comere had passed away.

      You may remember the time we visited. The fog was so thick
      you could not even see 2 feet in front of you. There were 2
      travelers on bicycles who asked to stay but you were full so
      they set up tents in your front yard. We used to travel
      quite a bit and named our cats after favorite places.

      You'll be glad to learn that we have a cat named Comere
      named for our very fond memories of staying with you at
      Dover House. I always remembered the beautiful story of how
      you and Delores met, when you were living in California I
      believe. It was instant love and you came all the way to
      the East coast to be with her. I just looked at your web
      page. My tears have finally stopped. I have a few things
      to share with you my friend.

      There was a man walking on a beautiful beach one afternoon
      after the tide had gone out. When he turned round past a
      rocky cove he saw millions of starfish that were stranded.
      The sun would surely kill them. He began picking them up as
      quickly as he could and tossing them back into the ocean.
      Another man came by and saw the sad event and said why are
      you bothering to do this, there are so so many, you cannot
      possibly save them all. The first man said, as he tossed
      yet another starfish into the water, but I can save this

      I took the word starfish and scrambled it to come up with a
      name for one of my cats. We called her Fratishs. My
      original tishy died but when we adopted another cat we gave
      her the same name. We call her Tishy 2. We currently have
      15 beautiful cats that have either been saved from local
      animal shelters where I sometimes volunteer or were strays
      that found their way to our loving home. Thru the years I
      have helped many people to get veterinary care or food for
      their cats. I even have a web page at Ebay where I sell
      antiques/collectible. I am sending the link, I know Delores
      would love this. You probably will too.


      I do not think it is a coincidence that I have located you
      on Delores's Birthday. There are many events that happen
      for a reason as I know you are sure. My anniversary is June
      16th the day she passed away.


      His life was one of hardship,
      as if no human cared.
      He spent his days in seeking out
      a home that could be shared.
      'Twas evident he'd felt the sting
      of stones and stick and rod.
      He cowered when you stepped too close
      this tomcat child of God.
      One of his lowly common beasts,
      his plight soon touched my heart.
      Though prone to fights among his peers,
      of my life he became a part.
      Had I known him sooner
      perhaps I could have made
      his life so much more gentler
      than the price for wounds he paid.
      His body shows the signs of strife
      but with care and daily food,
      he soon began to show the world
      someone cared - as well they should.
      His eyes shone with love in every look,
      their lemon amber gleamed.
      he sat with me in sweet repose
      he returned my love it seemed.
      Fate has a cruel turn sometimes,
      so quickly Joseph paled.
      Despite the love and best of care,
      all earthly efforts failed.
      I like to think he had a little time
      to know life is not all sad.
      That someone had real love for him,
      I tried to change to good the bad.
      Each animal that I have known
      the ones that I've called "mine"
      were simply lent for months or years
      a gift for a short time.
      The lesser children of our God
      they look to us each day,
      to help them meet the needs they seek
      while they walk with us this way.
      I'll not forget my Joseph
      though his days were short with me.
      I pray his soul now rests in peace
      his small feline spirit free.

      (by Ruth Jenkins, April 3, 1990)



      by Raphael

      Chapter 4

      Parmenides and His Vision

      Q. Which Western Vision can we consider nearest to
      Gaudapada's Ajativada?

      A. That of Parmenides. For him too the teaching is based
      upon the above mentioned postulates. For the Eleatic there
      is only one Way which solves the existential enigma, a way
      which 'lies far away from the path beaten by men', a pathway
      which leads to that doorway which transcends Day and Night
      (Duality), and reveals the a-spatial Reality, a way which is
      '...devoid of temporal end'. Parmenides' Way is also the
      one which Yajnavalkya describes in the Brhadaranyaka
      Upanisad (IV, iv, 8):

      "A narrow way laid down in ancient times, leading to me, by
      me it was discovered. By it the strong, knowers of Brahman,
      freed from this one ascend to the high celestial world."

      Parmenides' is undoubtedly an initiatory pathway and the
      most modern and attentive exegesis seems to be orientated
      towards this conclusion.

      Jaeger too agrees with this thesis when he writes: "Before
      this super-human prelude (speaking of Parmenides' proem)
      nobody can believe that the philosopher wished to place
      himself in the limelight. The vision of this mysterious
      event in the kingdom of light is an authentic religious
      experience: the experience of human eyes which turn towards
      the hidden truth, so that the whole life is transfigured."
      But this kind of religiousness "must be sought in the
      religiousness of the Initiations and of the Mysteries.
      Parmenides was able to grasp this because in Southern Italy,
      in his day, these ideas were widespread."

      For the Eleatic there exists, therefore, a sole Way and a
      sole Reality; Being in that It 'is'. It is unity, actuality,
      permanency, not subject either to birth or death, one and
      indivisible. Only that Being which 'is and does not
      become', which is complete, ever present, identical to
      Itself is necessarily a Reality which fills everything.

      "Being ungenerated, it is also imperishable, entire, sole,
      still and endless. It never was nor will be because it is
      now whole, one, continuous. In fact, what origin can you
      wish to seek for It? How and where could It have been born?
      Of non-being I shall not allow you to speak or think. In
      fact, what is not cannot be uttered or thought of. And even
      so, what need could have urged It, which rises from nothing,
      to be born, before or after? Therefore it is necessary for
      It to be either wholly or not at all. And never shall the
      force of true conviction allow that anything different from
      It be born of Being."

      It can only be known through the mediation of that noetic
      (immediate understanding and, according to Stefanini's
      exegesis, 'contemplative ecstasy') and epistemological
      knowledge that reveals only the supreme intelligible.
      Knowledge is that "...upon which Persuasion walks, and
      Persuasion is the follower of truth".

      For Parmenides too the world of names and forms (the
      empirical world) is simple appearance, and is presented (as
      in Gaudapada) as a dialectical moment and not as absolute

      "Therefore they will all be just names, which mortals have
      established, convinced that they are true: birth and death,
      being and non-being, change of place and mutation of
      brilliant color."

      Becoming, contingent and change seem, from a false
      standpoint, to be and exist.

      "But from this way [of opinion, which believes that things
      that are not are] of research remove your thought....This
      cosmic order, apparent as it is, I shall reveal to you in
      detail, so that no opinion of any mortal may overcome you."


      I am learning that Raphael, the author of this book, is a
      one-man Nonduality Salon. Visit his site at




      From: "lou Monte" <loumonte@...>

      dear friends, because of the very unexpected response to my
      invitation of an nd gathering at my home on long island on
      sunday, october 17 with an emphasis on some douglas harding
      experiments, i cannot accept any more participants-------
      ok, maybe just one more. thankyou for responding and
      thankyou, greg, for suggesting this announcement. best
      wishes, lou



      Hi Jan!
      Discarding the body is an interesting concept. How does it

      Hi Ben,
      When a Jain monk feels to become a burden to society, no
      food or drink is taken; death of the body will follow
      There is no suffering in this; an article appeared in New
      Scientist about it (though not related to Jain monks..). I
      know in Holland, people with severe dementia as to forget
      eating and drinking, aren't reminded or assisted to do so
      and will die (without suffering)
      as a result. But the more common reason to discard the body
      is escape from suffering ( like euthanasia). The common
      reasons always are escape, not knowing there is no escape
      from life.

      As far as personal tradgedies goes, isn't the idea to quit
      making personal?

      All feelings are personal. Recognition of suffering
      presupposes "personal" suffering. A young child can only
      find out that flames can cause severe pain by burning its
      hand; from then on, the pain caused by burns can be
      recognized. The human interface has its limitations; when
      the "personal" limit of suffering is reached, the wish to
      end life will arise.

      Yes indeed, what is to happen in the case of the dying body?
      This inquiring mind wants to know.

      There isn't a simple answer to that; a few of the
      determining factors are fear, identification, beliefs. From
      the perspective of identification with mind-body, a loss of
      control is taking place; thoughts will be determined by the
      fear of losing or the presiding belief. So the number of
      variations is huge; some will die with an expression of
      torture on the face whereas others will look peaceful as if
      in dreamless sleep. If there is no fear, no identification,
      no belief, nothing is happening except a "last" smile :)

      Is reincarnation a verifiable concept?

      It is quite possible to have many debates on reincarnation.
      >From the perspective that no one is born and no one is
      dying, reincarnation has two faces:
      1. The seeming fragmentation of Being into a multiplicity
      of beings, coming into existence and fading away
      2. The seeming fragmentation of experiences over a sequence
      of bodies coming into existence and fading away, retaining
      memory of (part of) the sequence.

      Regarding 2., one might say there is circumstantial
      "Hard" evidence cannot be obtained as there are many
      possible explanations, like the assumption of "universal"
      memory, containing the record of all events and
      "accidentally" tapping it. If one considers life to be a
      game, 2. isn't far-fetched; instead of a forced "clean
      boot", made impressions will remain, enabling the game to be
      finished without "personal"
      effort, irrespective of the "length" of the sequence.

      Nonduality Salon Website
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