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Highlights for Sun., Oct 3

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  • umbada@xx.xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxx)
    I just love real-life get-togethers. Maybe we should all plan to meet somewhere in a central point. Like Kansas. I am in Texas. ;) Phil #~ Phil Burton #~
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 5, 1999
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      I just love real-life get-togethers. Maybe we should all
      plan to meet somewhere in a central point. Like Kansas. I
      am in Texas. ;)

      Phil

      #~ Phil Burton #~ phi@... #~
      http://www.well.com/~phi
      _______________________________________________________________________
      Mira wrote:
      Dear Glo, I would like to go more indepth into this with
      you, or with anyone out here, who has been living in the
      nondual state for a longer period of time than I have.


      Greg responded:
      You are discussing some very important questions here. It
      seems like you're asking what happens after, what about
      suffering, what about others, what kind of helping, what
      kind of speaking, activities take place?


      It will be different for different people. I'll talk about
      this as though there are really people and motives and
      feelings and actions and ideas Out There. Everything takes
      place as though these things are inherently existent. It
      can't be said that any of it IS existent, but in the
      everyday sense it all goes on.


      In my case, there was first the turning towards intellectual
      understanding to grasp what had happened. After that, quite
      naturally and organically, the inclination has been growing
      towards compassion, understanding it and acting and living
      it.
      There is no longer any reason to give more weight to Greg's
      affairs over any other being's. Living for the good of all,
      to relieve suffering and to enhance peace and well-being for
      all. And I'm very bad at this.


      Compassion is something I had never been very good at. In
      my family, our manners and lovingkindness are not very kind
      or other-directed. We're sort of selfish and introverted.
      But against this background, I'm being pulled toward empathy
      and helping others in whatever way I can, however it comes
      up, and however inept and stumblingly I may do it. This
      fragrance, however, is spreading to more and more of life.


      I see perfection in the overall workings of compassion
      (which is the workings of all that is), and which is
      miraculously and gloriously working by itself. Look at any
      one slice of life and I wouldn't say that this slice is
      perfect, but the entire web of interrelatedness is perfect
      and cannot be different from the way it is - so how can it
      be less or other than perfect?


      The overall web includes the pull in my mind and heart to
      learn more about compassion and live it, for the good of all
      beings.
      At the same time that I'm doing various things to bring this
      forward, I don't see it as a striving or a goal-oriented
      doingness - but rather an outcome of the overall
      perfection. So it feels like celebration, even as I just
      barely begin to learn ways of allowing compassion to work
      through me.


      Others are different. Here are cases I know of in friends,
      after the understanding dawned:


      -Jon moved to San Diego with his girlfriend, is a house
      painter with a brilliant intellect, reading Nagarjuna and
      Zen. He would love to talk to someone local about this
      stuff instead of burning up the phone lines talking to me.


      -Jerry, also in San Diego, former student of Jean Klein,
      lives a quiet content and loving life as a carpenter and
      homebuilder, has raised two children in the light of this
      understanding.


      -Michael, is moving to Florida, working at a television
      station, is a dear helpful person who volunteers at a
      shelter for people with terminal diseases. He likes to talk
      about this stuff to anyone at the drop of a hat.
      A long time seeker, now that he no longer feels like a child
      at the back of the class, he's been changing his wardrobe
      and is open to finding a girlfriend.


      -Doug teaches Philosophy at an Upstate NY college, and has
      begun to integrate his professional teaching and writing
      with this kind of understanding, which takes a Buddhist tone
      for him. (he has tenure already!)


      Some turn right to teaching. Some never teach, like Jerry,
      they hardly ever talk about this with others.


      ____________________________________________________________________

      Anybody know of a nice cave somewhere in the Himalayas?
      The puzzles of the mind really make laugh.
      And it is still trying to resolve it...:-)


      Love always,

      Mira

      There is a cave that doesn't require traveling.
      It is the coolest place to reside and the stay is free.
      In the so called "cave of the Heart" one doesn't require a
      thing.
      The "cave of the Heart" is the place for just to "Be".


      Jan

      _____________________________________________________________________
      We
      We are proud to announce a new and important web page:
      Non-dualism and Western Philosophers, introduced and edited
      by Greg Goode.


      Greg says:
      "Many of our most stubborn and cherished dualities are the
      product of Western philosophy! In using the Western
      philosophical method, we are employing a medication that
      comes from the same part of the world as the disease. We
      don't have to swallow the doctor's entire kit bag, just the
      particular pill for our problem. For example, here is how
      Western philosophers can help with some of the more
      intransigent Western dualities. This list is certainly not
      exhaustive!"


      Please click on the link below to continue with Greg's
      thought:


      <a href="http://www.nonduality.com/western.htm">

      Thank you, Greg. We look forward to periodic additions to
      your web page.


      --Jerry
      ____________________________________________________________________
      There is just no one suffering, inspite of all the twisted
      ways that this mind is trying to turn it upside down, inside
      out, I find no persons, no separation, only love. My
      interaction with people is natural and very direct. There
      is no intervention of 'should be's, they do not get time to
      be considered, for the acting is too spontaneous. It is
      witnessing the judgemental, categorizational activities of
      this mind that leave me absolutely stunned.

      Wow. What an imagination! I admire it, for this mind does
      its utmost to create confusion and separation, it does
      attack from all sides. But the one that admires all this is
      never even the least bit affected. It is this one that
      knows the king is naked.


      --Mira
      _____________________________________________________________________

      Patanjali (comments between round brackets by Purohit Swami)
      dedicates several sutras to the big trouble maker called
      mind:
      (11, II) The grosser afflictions disappear through
      meditation.
      (10,II) The finer afflictions disappear as mind disappears
      in illumination. [The "movement" towards factual
      nonduality. As mind revolves around "I & mine & doing",
      mind is said to be nonexistent when the "I" has
      disappeared.] (24,III) The mind is coloured with innumerable
      desires, and as mind and desires work hand in hand, it
      follows that mind works to please someone else, (Mind is an
      agent working on behalf of its master.) [Wanting to "improve
      the world" is as much a desire as wanting to be rich]
      (25,III) He who sees clearly, refuses to identify mind with
      Self. (He finds that mind is not the doer, mind is not the
      knower, mind is not the enjoyer.)

      (26,III) Intent on discrimination, his mind longs for
      liberation. [Liberation, Being, without the shackles of the
      mind, therefore it isn't a desire in the proper sense]
      (27,III) Sometimes in Illumination, impressions of the
      waking mind intervene. (The condition of Illumination is
      the condition of unlimited joy. Sometimes the limitations
      of waking mind shake the overflying joy.)[The impressions
      will revolve around "otherness", like lecturing, preaching
      to "enlighten the world" etc.] (28,III) They should be
      destroyed as afflictions are destroyed.

      Finally, don't forget (22,II): The seen is dead to him who
      has attained liberation, but is alive to others, being
      common to all. (If one man gets liberation, it does not
      follow that the world becomes free. Every man has to
      struggle for himself.
      Because men have the same desires, they have the same
      playing ground.)

      The moral is, unless it is possible to offer help etc.
      spontaneously, helping isn't possible. Don't use the mind
      to "solve the problems of the world" - it won't work.

      --Jan
      ____________________________________________________________________

      The Pathway of Non-duality

      by Raphael

      Chapter Two: Real and Non-real (concluded)



      At this point, let us examine the point of view mentioned
      before which states that only Being exists and not becoming.



      When examining the empiricists' view, we stated that it is
      impossible to reject things altogether. However, we
      concluded that what we know is not reality but
      phenomenon-becoming or the mental and individual
      interpretation of the said phenomenon. And if all we see
      and touch is phenomenon-movement, there must be a factor
      upon which such phenomenon-movement depends. It is not
      possible to see phenomenon-effects that do not depend upon
      causes-principles. Becoming, being abaliety, cannot depend
      upon that very same becoming.



      How can we know the Being that lies behind the phenomenon
      and behind mental-sensory interpretation? That Being which
      the empiricists would like to touch and see as if it were a
      phenomenon-object?



      If a phenomenal object can be seen and touched with equally
      relative, phenomenal and objective tools, Being as pure
      Subject can only be known through Being, through
      consciousness of self as Subject-Being, in so far as Being
      is not an 'object'.



      When we eliminate or transcend phenomenon-becoming, Being
      reveals Itself in Its absolute reality and aseity.



      If one can know the relative by putting oneself upon the
      plane of relativity and upon that of simple interpretation,
      then one also can know the Being by putting oneself upon the
      plane of identity. Western philosopy, in general, has not
      solved the problem of the knowledge of Being, because it has
      always put itself upon a dual plane, even when believing to
      state the Oneness of reality.



      Q. Can being be expressed?



      A. Being can be experienced only upon a plane of identity.
      Thus traditional or realizative Philosophy proposes the
      knowledge of Being through the realization of Being.



      Q. So, Advaita has something in common with both the
      Philosophy of Being and that of becoming?



      A. Yes, because it includes three levels or stages of
      Reality (satya) in its vision:



      paramarthika = pure or absolute reality vyavaharika =
      empirical or phenomenal reality pratibhasika = illusory
      existence

      ...



      Asat, non-being in the strictest sense, is the non-existent,
      the non-real, like the hare's horns.... But compared with
      paramarthika Reality, one may say that even vyavaharika
      truth, the empirical truth, is illusory because it is
      non-permanent, non-constant.



      Thus the ultimate conclusion of Advaita is that Being and
      becoming are both dialectical 'moments' of the Absolute or
      non-qualified supreme Reality (nirguna).


      _____________________________________________________________________

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