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highlights tuesday 28 sept.

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  • andrew macnab
    Becky Windmiller wrote: I met Greg yesterday for lunch and we had a wonderful conversation, touching on several topics, one of which was therapy (psycho).
    Message 1 of 1 , Sep 29, 1999
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      Becky Windmiller wrote:

      I met Greg yesterday for lunch and we had a wonderful conversation,
      touching on several topics, one of which was therapy (psycho). It's an
      interesting topic so I wanted to post a few thoughts.

      I have found therapy to be of value. To me, the actual questioning of
      the therapy process is its logical outcome and therefore, it's intrinsic
      value. Perhaps that is the ultimate purpose of such a process and
      hopefully, the therapist will be able to respond in kind.

      This happened for me after 3 years of therapy. After all this time of
      "making progress" something dawned on me. I told my therapist something
      like this: "Look, I can continue to come to therapy for the next 10 or
      20 years, bringing a new or old fear, trying to resolve each one, on and
      on and on. What I want to know is why we never talk about ending fear
      all together?" I was surprised really that this was not the ultimate
      goal of therapy but I found, although the therapist was willing to
      listen and explore, she had never before asked herself this question.
      Can fear come to an end? I also remember saying to her , "why should I
      listen to what you tell me?" She replied, "Because of my education and
      experience" and I had to say "no, I can't do that".

      A few weeks later, I went for a session and just sat there with
      nothing to say. She said, "why don't you talk about your thoughts and
      feelings" and I said, "what for? there is no need to talk about that".
      This all started a discussion with her on thought and fear and
      relationship, something I think she really yearned to know about. The
      tables turned in that relationship in a way. There was no longer any
      label of therapist or patient for me. I never again looked to her to
      help me. I knew she couldn't. I did leave that therapy because I saw
      how it was just another set of programming/conditioning. It did however
      open the door for me to my own feelings. Later, I could look at how they
      trapped me.

      I think there are certain forms of therapy that do not necessarily
      promote the idea of self improvement and self importance. I'm not an
      expert but I have read some about transpersonal psychology. I also see
      that I really needed to go through that therapy process in order to
      question it and see it through to the conclusion. I would hope that most
      people would see the obvious after a certain point and then shift the
      focus onto the deeper problem. Actually, the ultimate "goal" of therapy
      could be to turn people onto the truth. That is what I am really
      interested in.

      I read through Byron Katie's The Work and I found it to be somewhat
      like a self-help approach except what I really liked was that she turns
      everything back onto the individual so you can't get away with blaming
      another person for anything. Her way of looking at it is very "western"
      so it is interesting to see how it is communicated without the eastern
      language or reference.

      When I left therapy, I was really convinced that therapy was not the
      way to go ... it was more conditioning, not truth, etc. That was the
      reaction from the initial intense clarity I was experiencing and
      seeing. I can't say what anyone else should do and I do see great value
      in the process of therapy -- but it is not the end. Lately, I keep
      remembering the words of a Tai Chi teacher from years ago: Never judge
      another person because you do not know where they have been.

      We are renovating our new house and last weekend we had a couple of
      local Brooklyn guys working for us. One (or both) of them stole $180 out
      of my wallet. I shouldn't have left it in view. Anyway, I see how the
      kids are treated on my block, where these guys grew up. Lots of yelling,
      swearing, poverty, nobody listens to these children. Then they grow up,
      come to my house and steal and lie about. Never judge another person
      because you do not know where they have been.

      Becky
      ________________________________________________________________________

      From: "Mirror" <mirror@...>

      Emptiness in the Nonduality Salon......
      Everybody left.
      No posts.
      No discussions.
      No arguments.
      No fun.
      Nothing happening.
      The Salon is Empty.......

      ..............


      Is this the absolute?

      ...............


      (no wonder it made the world appear)



      ~Mira~
      __________________


      **********
      They're probably all busy saying their prayers and kissing their asses
      goodbye!!

      Judi
      __________________

      Petros:


      Guess again.


      The prophet has returned from the desert --
      __________________

      ********
      So soon??? :-)

      --
      Happy Days,
      Judi
      __________________


      I don't know. Time passes at a different rate depending on where one is
      and
      what one is doing.

      Petros
      __________________


      Life is empty of separateness
      Everything is One

      Love
      Afra
      __________________

      Dave Mason:

      hmmmm
      "Life is empty of separateness
      Everything is One"
      what happens if we let go of this as well?

      there is an old zen koan
      'the ten thousand things return to the one
      where does the one return?'

      ok everybody
      where does the one return??????????????
      yehaaaaaaaaa
      from
      dave
      __________________

      There are as many numbers between zero and one
      as there are between one and ten thousand.

      andrew
      __________________


      To where or what can One return if One IS everything?
      Everything is One

      Love
      Afra
      __________________


      everything
      every
      thing
      one
      won
      de dum de dum de dum de dum.


      the concept everything
      used here like this
      has no meaning
      if we are talking about being swept
      away by a tide of feeling truth and power
      now
      that I can relate to
      but the concept / word everything
      nah.

      people reading this
      if you know
      then this is just whistling in the wind
      if you don't know
      watch out for words
      like everything
      every
      thing.

      another old koan
      "one inch meditation
      one inch Buddha"
      bye
      from dave
      ________________________________________________________________________


      From: davemason@...

      "Van Gogh did not die of a state of delirium properly speaking,
      but of having been bodily the battlefield of a problem around
      which the evil spirit of humanity has been struggling from the
      beginning . . . .Van Gogh searched throughout his life with a
      strange energy and determination. And he did not commit
      suicide in a fit of madness, in a dread of not succeeding. On
      the contrary, he had just succeeded, and discovered what he was
      and who he was, when the collective consciousness of society, to
      punish him for escaping its clutches, suicided him".
      Antonin Artaud
      ________________________________________________________________________


      >Dan wrote:
      .....So without moral outrage, I would
      like to express concern and sadness. Certainly,
      when anyone is hurt by stereotyping, prejudice,
      violent assault - it is I who am hurt.

      >Skye: Er...ok Mr. Dan not hurt.

      Dan: You missed me, here, Skye. I feel the hurt involved
      in this situation.
      I don't feel morally outraged.
      You can cover that base if it's for you.
      My perception is that moral outrage, superiority,
      and self-righteousness go well together - and
      it's not for me. Those things can
      cause as much hurt as misguided fundamentalism.
      Ironically, moral outrage seems one of the very key
      emotions that drives fundamentalism -
      a reactive state of mind. How do we get beyond "reacting"
      to "being" -- individually and collectively?
      Just as through the generations, victim becomes victimizer
      and the dance goes on...
      I am the rage,
      I am the hurt, I am the healing, I am the love - and I am beyond
      these feeling states.
      Taking the moral high ground doesn't "solve" anything for me,
      thanks.

      Love, Dan
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Kristi:


      the fire up here is awesome....it's licking at our heels

      the sun was a neon ball of orange........glaring through the black
      smoke, as
      if to say....nothing you can do will hide me

      they left 10 million dollars worth of "resources", trucks and cash and
      generators and such, at one of the base camps they evacuated last
      night.....nothing like fear of death to get one's priorities
      straight....

      it's a good fire.....will burn all that choked out underbrush and
      rejuvenate
      the earth...unless of course it burns down a town or two along the
      way....point of view is everything, no?

      pretty trippy stuff, this fire.....they move in and set up whole towns
      overnight....showers, big white marshmallow tents with points like
      circus
      tents....brilliant yellow firefighter shirts and olive green forest
      service
      shirts,
      35 states and 18 tribal nations, indians, mexicans, african-americans,
      even
      white folks, all working together.....awesome......they came from Maine
      and
      Wisconsin and Alaska and EVERYWHERE......

      Love, Kristi
      ========================================================================
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