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Highlights, Friday, Sept. 24

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  • umbada@xx.xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxx)
    Hello. Doing this digest is like being a jeweller with an abundance of gold and gemstones and a tiny display area. So much that is exquisite is left
    Message 1 of 1 , Sep 26, 1999
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      Hello. Doing this digest is like being a jeweller with an
      abundance of gold and gemstones and a tiny display area. So
      much that is exquisite is left undisplayed. I gave extra
      space to a discussion on dance between Becky and aleks,
      simply because it's an unusual topic, and, of course, it is
      related with passion and love for the subject.

      There's nondual chat available now by going to

      All you do is sign your name (or any name) and that's it. No
      registration or anything. It's open 24 hours a day and
      everyone seems to pop in now and then for a few minutes.


      Nonduality Salon Website has been updated. For details
      please go to
      <a href="http://www.nonduality.com/new.htm">

      I am now only wonder.
      Of thee.

      To make no distinction
      between so many
      eyes of god.

      I err in saying
      and you have shown now,
      how equal your love
      is to mine.

      So many different
      Beings here!
      Little sound.


      <paste> Love.


      Dolls and Puppets

      Every doll operates a puppet
      Experimental placement
      In a set constructed
      To cultural standards;

      Whether standard by
      Conformance or
      By rebellion;
      Set standards prevail.

      Every doll
      Has ambitions
      Of success on-set;
      Each puppet is the actor

      Every doll plays
      Within standard boundaries
      Of set standards;
      Even rebels speak.

      Speaking is agreement
      Even in disagreement
      Set speech standards prevail
      As the basic agreement;

      Thus even rebel dolls
      Operate their puppets
      Within certain boundaries
      In the standard social puppet arena.

      Some dolls do not know
      Or have forgotten
      They are not the puppet
      They are the doll

      Dolls create puppets
      Puppets represent dolls;
      A complex way of life
      In the dollhouse puppetshow

      The puppet show continues;
      Dolls placing bets
      On their own and other puppets,
      Is the primary sport of dolls

      Irony abounds
      Child dolls play
      Using doll-puppets
      Learning to identify;

      Puppets die daily
      Hourly by the moment;
      Reborn as a new version,
      Continuing the show

      Of reborn puppets based
      On plans to win bets
      Searching for the winning formula:

      Winning dolls make their puppets say:
      "I am am not this puppet,
      I am This Doll"

      Other winning dolls make their puppets say:
      "I am not this puppet;
      I am the supreme non-puppet,
      Thus I am the Supreme Doll"

      Puppet shows,
      Ventriliquist dolls,
      Bets placed,
      Market watched;

      Dollhouse traditions
      Demand sacrifice;
      Loser-puppets flung down
      Steep pyrimid steps.

      ==Gene Poole==


      I like the last part,
      flingin 'em down the steep pyramid steps. :-)
      Too precious. I was over at Cathy's this afternoon
      and I walk in the door and what do I see on the sofa -
      hand puppets! Kukla, Fran and Ollie!



      String sutra

      Brahman stretches forth, before, behind,
      to right and left, stretches forth above and below.

      We say I am string
      We say at one end doll at one end puppet
      We name the dance of doll and puppet
      We say I am and we are

      We dance doll and puppet
      puppet and doll
      Tight string stretches forth before, behind
      to right and left, above and below.



      Skye: I've just started reading "No Boundaries" by Ken
      He writes; "Something very simple happens when you ask the
      question "Who am I?" When you are describing or explaining,
      what you are actually doing, (whether you know it or not) is
      drawing a mental line or boundary across the the whole field
      of your experience".

      "Your identity in other words depend entirely on where you
      draw that boundary line. [...] and so you come to recognise
      your identity with 'this' and not 'that'. All answers to
      that question "Who am I" stem precisely from drawing that
      boundary line.

      The most interesting thing about this boundary line is that
      it can and frequently does shift. [...] As we have seen the
      most radical remapping or shifting of the boundary line
      occurs for the person who expands their self identity
      boundary to include the entire universe. We might even say
      they lose the boundary line altogether. [...]

      Skye: He goes on to describe how we create those fundamental
      boundaries eg; all the things inside my skin are 'me'. I am
      not my job, my car, my house, etc...and some even make a
      more significant splits within the body, such as; I am not
      my body, I am my psyche, ego, personality even though
      biologically there is not the least foundation for this
      dissociation!!! Even within the ego we use mental self
      images to make further splits narrowing down our persona.
      It's quite flexible this self/notself boundary line.
      Suffice to say, I am enjoying this refreshing author


      I tried getting rid of it all once, all the material stuff,
      I still miss some of the stuff I gave away, especially the
      music (records).


      When you realize you are nothing, it comes pleasantly
      accompanied by the lack of fear of attachment to everything.

      Love always,


      Sometimes the language here at NDS of being, oneness, all
      that is, ego, etc., confuses me. I never defined anything
      like that. I just saw that all this "stuff" is conditioned
      energy passing through my body and I just move around and it
      either comes along or not. It didn't really matter. The
      icing on the cake is compassion.



      Jim: I'm Jim, I've never posted before but I've been
      following on and off for several months. My argument is
      something like, I believe we can convince ourselves of

      Dan: Are you totally convinced of that?

      J: And anybody can say that words don't suffice to express
      an experience. Yada Yada Yada. What am I supposed to do
      with that!

      D: Try to find an experience that can be fully expressed in

      J: I want to know what it is in YOU that makes you feel this
      mystyerious thing, what makes it real to you, because if
      it's real to you, right there in front of you, it must
      manifest itself in some way, some...dare I say, duality.

      D: In front of me, there is only what is in front of me.
      Whatever it is, it is. The question is, "how mysterious is
      this very moment, this exactly as it is?"

      J: I suppose I'm asking "what is enlightenment supposed to

      D: Supposing it to be something, you have your

      J: Nothing is not an acceptable answer, testimony however
      will be considered.

      D: But then testimony will be words, right? Yada yada

      J: I suspect there are those who consider themselves to be
      enlightened around here somewhere and I'm trying to sniff em
      out. I'm fascinated with the concept of believing in
      ANYTHING as an ultimate, or perfection or whatever. I can't
      seem to see anything beyond experience, hmmmm........looks
      pretty dark to me.

      D: Belief in an ultimate is having a belief. Having one
      belief is similar to having another belief. It is simply
      holding an idea in one's mind creating an expectation or a
      fixed concept that reality is a certain way.
      Here you are. Here's "your" experience. Where is the line
      between "you" and "your experience"?

      J: little fish in a big pond.
      with open ears (and gills)

      D: with gills open, the water comes in..., then the fish is
      in the pond just swimming, no longer concerned about "big"
      or "little" :-


      "There's no thinking involved in my choreography . . . I
      don't work
      through images or ideas I work through the body . . . If
      the dancer
      dances ... which is not the same as having theories about
      dancing or
      wishing to dance or trying to dance .. everything is
      there. When I
      dance, it means: this is what I am doing."

      -Merce Cunningham (quoted by Becky)

      thank you for the above quote!
      merce cunningham and john cage evidently worked separately,
      the fusion (unity ) of dance and music occuring
      spontaneously on the stage. i remember that you are a
      dancer-- there are, i understand, "set forms" that dancers
      work within in these pieces, motifs of some kind. do you
      know more about how this works? -- here's a quote from
      cunningham which i really think, from having witnessed
      performances of his work, truly evince c's vision:

      "...and then I read Einstein by pure coincidence, where he
      said there are no fixed points in space and I thought, well,
      that's perfect, that, as far as I was concerned, about stage
      space. There aren't any fixed points. Wherever you are
      ... could be a center. Well that's a Buddhist thought, of
      course -- wherever you are is the center, as well as where
      everybody else is. But that seemed to me quite marvelous,
      and enlarging."

      love and blessings, aleks

      Aleks, Yes, Cage & Cunningham worked separately and
      together. The only binding factor was time. In simple
      terms, they agree that the dance last for say, 13 minutes so
      then that is how long the music 'lasted'. Otherwise, they
      worked on the 'same' piece, independent of each other's
      input. Cunningham also works in this fashion with artists
      for set or decor. Often time, I've heard, the dancer's will
      never have heard the music prior to the dress rehearsal.

      It's great because they are not deciding on what 'goes
      together' or what things should mean.

      There are different 'forms' or structures used based on
      indeterminacy. For instance, in one dance, years ago, the
      dancers movement was determined by the color of paint put on
      their costume by Robert Rausenberg when they exited into the
      wings. Maybe one learned phrase of movement was called
      "red" and another "green", so through the application of
      color and the subsequent ever changing costume, the dance
      evolves differently, yet the same, with each performance.

      That is another reason why this work is great: everything
      happens by chance but the dances retain a certain unity.
      The chaos makes perfect sense.

      I love that quote you sent by merce too. I have always felt
      that this is one of the most important changes in modern
      dance -- decentralization of the stage space. Yet another
      reason why it's so great! (in the largest of senses!)

      Do you know the piece 4 minutes 33 seconds by John Cage? It
      is for piano. The musician comes to the stage, bows, takes
      her/his seat, puts fingers to keys, and watches a stop watch
      for 4min. 33 sec., never sounding the instrument, stands
      up, bows, walks off stage. True Music!

      I could talk about this forever. Glad you like it too.


      Once the mind, body, senses, world are not seen as anything
      other than images, then all images take on a weightless,
      shining luminescence. As though nothing other than light is
      being seen.



      Enjoying your observations, I notice:
      Even the thought that images arise in myself and to myself
      is an image.
      The comparisons can only be made when there is assumed to be
      a mind to make the comparisons, a mind outside of images.
      If it is found that mind itself is an image, then comparison
      cannot be made in a relevant manner.

      Here you've touched the very heart of what I am unable to
      speak, unable to describe, unable to explain. It is the
      point of the absolute. From where 'I' begin, and
      consequently 'the rest' begins. It is like the void that is
      before anything happens. Before the 'big bang'. And I do
      not mean the big bang in the sense of 'how the universe was
      created a few billion years ago', but I mean the big bang
      that happens every instant, every milisecond, manifesting,
      from the point of the absolute, that, which appears to be a
      'continuity of manifestation'. This is the point where I
      always am, but I cannot know that I am there, for 'knowing'
      manifests afterward. From here the mind manifests as the
      world, which it then observes and compares. This is so hard
      for me to describe, because in describing it, it seems like
      some kind of a weird 'chain process' while in fact
      everything is happening simultaneously.


      It is just as impossible to find the mirror as it is
      impossible to find the veils.
      But it is very easy to imagine them.


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