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Tuesday, June 18, 2002

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  • Michael Read
    The Nondual Highlights Issue #1108 Tuesday, June 18, 2002 Editor, Michael Read Highlights Home Page: ... Today s posts are
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 19, 2002
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      The Nondual Highlights

      Issue #1108
      Tuesday, June 18, 2002
      Editor, Michael Read
      Highlights Home Page: <http://nonduality.com/hlhome.htm>

      Today's posts are from the Nisargadatta list on Yahoo! groups.

      "satkartar5" wrote:
      I'm new to the non-dualist teaching and want
      to learn about it at a"live" forum as this before pursuing.  I've the
      feeling that the INTENTION
      of some seekers is to "beat death" and that is why they do self-
      inquiry: to learn
      to attach their awareness to an abstract entity which they believe
      live for ever?

      Do you non-dualists take the teachings
      verbatim eg. ego-death means death?
      -isn't this gross misunderstanding of
      the teachings?

      I found this post at a Ramana club; I
      think it talks about ego-death, but
      there it was in a tread, that it's
      meaning was different and the above
      question came to me again; the same
      person who posted this also sated
      that Ramana is alive...


      "Yesterday a Swami came and sat in the
      hall. He seemed anxious to speak to
      Bhagavan but hesitant. After some time
      he approached him and said:
      "Swami, it is said that Atma is all-pervading.
      Does that mean that it is in a dead body

      "Oho! So that is what you want to know?" Bhagavan rejoined.

      "And did the question occur to the dead
      body or to you?"

      "To me," he said.

      "When you are asleep do you question
      whether you exist or not?"
      Bhagavan continued.

      "It is only after you wake up that you
      say you exist. In the dream-state also
      Atma exists. Really there is no such
      thing as a dead or living body.

      What does not move we call dead,
      and what has movement we call living.
      In dreams you see any number
      of bodies, living and dead, but they have
      no existence when you wake up. In the
      same way this whole world,
      animate and inanimate, is non-existent.

      Death means the dissolution of the
      ego, and rebirth the birth of the ego.
      There are births and deaths, but they
      are of the ego, not of you. You exist
      whether the sense of ego is there or
      not. You are its source but are not
      that sense.

      Mukti (Liberation) means finding the
      origin of these births and deaths and
      destroying the very roots of the
      ego-sense. That is Mukti. It means
      dying with full awareness.
      If one dies thus one is born again
      immediately at the same place with full
      knowledge of the Self, known as

      "Aham Aham" (I-I). One who is born thus
      has no more doubts. "


      "dan330033" wrote:
      If you are inquiring so as to get something,
        you aren't inquiring -- you are repeating
        the known.

      If you are inquiring because someone else told you
        about a realization that can be had, and you
        inquire so as to have that realization, you're
        simply going after a self-created image in your

      Mind and body dropped is the end of inquiry.

      Its end is here, before it begins.

      Inquiry is not a process.

      It is its own ending, before beginning.


      "satkartar5"  wrote:
      hi, the books of Nisargadatta is hard for me to read, I'm saturated
      with spiritual literature and developed an aversion to it, plus the
      question and answer format is not my rhrytm not my questions etc

      Is there a website or club with exerpts about the Prior to
      Consciousness, please let me know. The "I am" webpage among the files
      here is great. --Is it possible that one doesn't do any "exercise"
      just remains centered in his/her essence, I took clearllight acid 20
      years ago and all this seems to be known realised, familiar to me,
      remembering that awareness gained (and forgotten) during the acid-

      Does non-dualist view CONSCIOUSNESS as
      - a pool where one tunes in and shares the similarities with others
      where has affinity?

      - is it preordaned like karma?

      - can it be uplifted or only known as is?

      - a tool

      - the maifestation of being (or the other-way around)

      I really really like the here and now thought eg.:
       ".. the self-enquiry my ongoing process of discovering Reality. The
      Reality is not outside of me -- is eternal, in the Present,
      everlasting, nondying."

      -are nondualist aiming to "stop the rebirth" by eliminating
      the 'seed" the form for not "to come back". I don't belive in

      -thank you for your time in advance


      "hurg"  wrote:
      you say that you're saturated with spiritual literature and developed
      an aversion to it but you're seeking more text on white background?
      perhaps a paper book?  how about david godman's book on ramana
      maharshi called "be as you are"...it's an excellent book for all
      levels.  here is a link that gives you an idea what the book cover
      looks like but don't just look for it in electronic form on the net
      since this is one book that should be read in paper.  it has its own
      nondual magic. 


      after this book, perhaps "i am that" can be the next level.

      as to your questions, no one has any answers but you.  based on our
      ability we create our own myths to console ourselves. remember only
      the ego has questions and needs to be counseled of its own
      approaching end.  since you have dislike for wordsmiths' version of
      myths, how about a nondual poetic myth?

      no wonder you don't remember being the almighty Universal
      Consciousness, nor having the memory of where you were 200 years ago,
      nor being born.
      did the the dreams of this world veil it as the moving images hide
      the screen?
      have you been born through so many forms,
      and not all the programming been wiped from the memories?
      just because you have not yet been reminded you are That
      and live in the past,
      it does not mean your heart might peek some day from the opening of
      this mystery
      and see this with wide open eyes


      P.S. the above poem is my translation of rumi's sufi poetic myth to a
      modern advaita myth.

      "satkartar5"  wrote:
      hi Hurg, I know you for a long time
      since I'm an admirer of Kabir and the
       sufi poets and saw your website.

      The reason I commented about the
      Nisargadatta file being great is
      because it collected the main thoughts
       of him in an easy to navigate format
      (and I saw bad selections).

      My mind screams when I try
      to read his book the I'm, or
       while reading question and
      answer format (you saw; I've my
      specific questions through which
      I'm able to grasp a teaching)

      --sorry to say it is not possible for
       me to read a book at this point
       because I speed read especially
       repetitious literature and
      there is no way of me knowing where
      was the coupe lines of importance.

      I belive in PRACTICE versus reading
      anyway and I'am used to meditate
       18 + hours/day.
      I assumed, that here I'll
       find advanced kind souls who
      are learned in Nisargadatta's thought
       and can tell me how to do the teaching.


      "d_agenda2000" wrote in response to dan330033
      who said in part: "Inquiry is not a process."

        Well hold on Dan, my friend,...to take from another "practitioner"
      (Douglas Harding interviewed by K. Pillay)

      KP: There is a kind of paradox, isn't there, that one has to practise
      to be what one is naturally?
      DH: Yes, well you practise to really get rid of the illusion, not to
      achieve the Reality.

      KP: Yes, that is a very important point, because in the spiritual
      supermarket that has mushroomed over the last 20-25 years, there
      seems to be a constant movement to achieve some extraordinary state,
      and you're directly the opposite. Would you not say that we're really
      practising only to remove the illusion?

      DH: That's right. All of us are living from this. Ramana kept saying
      everyone's living from this, everyone's enlightened. Everyone is
      firmly stationed, where else could they be but in natural nature, and
      the only difference between himself and others is that he enjoyed it
      and others ignored it. It's not any different

      C J

      Anand Eswaran wrote:
      Don't associate with the questions and you will
      require no answers

      "hurg"  wrote:
      if there is no cost for creating watches out of thin air, should not
      sai baba manifest gold rolex watches instead of 'made in china'
      if the gurus had any supernatural power, should they not be held
      accountable for not bringing the world peace?

      isn't the true miracle the fact that no matter how hard people try
      there are no miracles and the physical laws never bend?

      why do we create myths and *have* the need to believe in miracles?
      what function do the myths serve? aren't they very ancient and
      affordable methods of counseling for the ego who's facing death?

      as much as we feel disgust at the tricks of the magicians, whether
      they're hindu sadgurus or catholic bishops, aren't they also adorable
      when they take this play so seriously? how the self forgets who s/he
      is and attaches to the role...what an amazing performance...we love
      it and hate it.

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