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Saturday, May 18, 2002

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  • John Metzger
    The Highlights Issue #1076 Saturday, May 18, 2002 Edited by John Metzger Highlights Home Page: http://nonduality.com/hlhome.htm ... NDS Non-duality is a
    Message 1 of 1 , May 19, 2002
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      The Highlights  Issue #1076

      Saturday, May 18, 2002

      Edited by John Metzger 

      Highlights Home Page: http://nonduality.com/hlhome.htm


       
      NDS  Non-duality is a limited perspective
      ==Gene Poole==
      Roger Isaacs www.newu.org

      Dear Gene:
      Non-duality is two things: 
      #1) a living reality 
      #2) a philosophy educating [wo]man about ultimate reality.
      G.
      "Non-duality is two things:" ???
      No, nonduality is one thing; 'only one'... 'not two'.
      Nonduality is... nonduality.
      R.
      You say that non-duality is inclusive: As a living
      reality yes. But as a philosophy it is exclusive!!!
      G.
      Nonduality is not a philosophy.
      Nonduality 'contains' all duality; thus it is inclusive.
      R.
      The Astavakra Gita sums it up: "You practice meditation?
      This indeed is your bondage!". Or as Gene says in a
      reply to Rashmi a few days ago:
      "Seeking realization is symptomatic of ignorance..."
      G.
      How do those statements go together?
      R.
      Non-duality is a polar opposite to meditation.
      Non-duality is characterized by effortless being,
      meditation is the practice of subtle
      effort culminating or ending with the transcendence
      of effort.
      And non-duality is _perfect_ in it's exclusivity. It
      must forever remain exclusive to provide the natural
      counter point to meditation. Both meditation
      (subtle effort) and non-duality (effortless being) are
      essential & perfect... but neither is inclusive.
      Meditation is the art of seeking rightly
      (maturing into the experience of non-duality), and
      non-duality is the art of non-seeking (rightly).
      G.
      An interesting perspective...
      R.
      Non-seeking is appropriate ONLY AFTER the preparatory
      practices of seeking have culminated in the fruition
      of receptive inner stillness.
      G.
      This point is at least, debatable.
      R.
      The ego is quick to proclaim "I am beyond seeking", but
      this is just another deception!
      Without the preparatory practice of meditation,
      non-duality philosophy can be ***DANGEROUS***.
      Having been seduced by the flowery elitist
      philosophy of non-duality... a person might abandon
      seeking prematurely or fail to see the value in
      seeking. Satisfied with the mere concepts of
      non-duality... a person will likely fail to realize
      the truth by direct perception.
      G.
      "flowery elitist philosophy..." "...dangerous"... Hmmm...
      R.
      Non-duality should take a strong dose of that very
      useful advice from "Dirty Harry" Callahan (Clint Eastwood
      in the movie Magnum Force, 1973):
      "A man (or in this case a philosophy) has got to
       know his limitations."
      G.
      He also said: "Go ahead, make my day".
      I hope you can apply your advice to yourself, Roger.
      R.
      Non-dual Consciousness contains all, the philosophy of
      non-duality is a limited (but perfect) perspective.
      Sprinkled all over the www.nonduality.com you will see
      references to "Advaita Vedanta", the Indian philosophy
      expounding non-duality.
      There are six different systems of Indian philosophy: non-duality
      & yoga(the science of meditation) are but two. The ancient Indians
      understood a key characteristic of non-duality that has thus far
      failed to be appreciated in this modern revival: non-duality as
      a systemof thought is a partial perspective. Non-duality in it's
      pure form (as Astavakra beautifully reminds us) knows
      meditation to be bondage. This is a partial perspective suited to
      individuals at a particular stage of the spiritual quest.
      Meditation is another partial perspective essential for a holistic
      understanding. The two systems (non-duality & meditation)
      are mutually  exclusive in many regards and consideration of
      both is wise. (since we're quoting Clint Eastwood I have to add
       "Opinions are like assholes: everyone has one.").
      From another angle: An enlightened [wo]man speaks rooted in
      the reality of non-duality (hey, I can rhyme) issuing words which
      form concepts in the brain of a dualistic listener.
      The concepts of non-duality in the dualistic brain are just another
      belief system. It's a system of thought!
      No need to be concerned about me, Gene. After an unintended
      but delightful meal the other night of Ben & Jerry's Cherry Garcia
      ice cream and "Zonker stout" beer with no side effects... I'm ready
      to proclaim my immortality. Hope I "made your day". :-)

       
       
       
       
      'Beloved' appears to man doing calisthenics in the desert, or, man
      about to jump off a cliff, or, enter your own caption here___________.
       

       
       
       
      NDS  focus
       
      i would like to offer you a system that will make non-duality real.
      can't do it! heeheehee
       
      do have a suggestion though.
      focus on awareness
      not your awareness or mine or some dead guy or some popular
      teacher
      just awareness - focus on that and maybe all the ideas about
      awareness will fall away.
       
      are you the character you are playing?
      yes, no, maybe, you don't know?
       
      well it is so much easier to believe in awareness than it is to
      open up to awareness. yes, of course it's a concept! so what?
       
      you aren't afraid of a concept are you?
      no, of course not!
       
      but what if you didn't 'come here' to become enlighted, awakened,
      re-joined with god the universe and all that? what if you actually
      are the very universe and you came here for other reasons? hahaha
      and hohoho!
       
      well, kids, that's basically it. you already are the big kahuna you
      are trying to find. oh yeah.
       
      loveya - michael read
       

       
       
      NDS  Jehovah's  Witnesses             Thanks, Mary Bianco
       
      A new website speaks of the movement from Jehovah's Witness
      to Nonduality. From kingdom hall to krispy kreme.

      The question now is, how to escape nonduality?

      http://www.escapefromwatchtower.com/
       
      Jerry
       

       
      NDS  Non-dual terminology(?)
      Bruce Morgan
       
      It occurs to me that while
      "nonduality" refers to a
      simple-if-subtle fact,
      "nondualism" is indeed a
      philosophy and belief system
      or perhaps a component or
      tenet thereof. There, so to
      speak, is the rub, since any
      such system is by nature
      problematic. There is not
      and need not be any path up
      the mountain -- there is no
      mountain and we're all
      exactly where we have to be.
      Viscerally realizing that is
      exactly that: realization,
      which is intrinsically
      nondual(ity).
       

       
      NDS  nonduality and religion
      [cut from a longer dialogue]
       
      Jerry
      The vision of the lists was to be a forum for people who had a
      natural inclination toward the nondual way of looking at things.
      We didn't come together in the name of any one guru or school
      of thought. It was truly independent, seems to me. We weren't
      trying to make money or take advantage of innocent people or
      anything like that.
       
      Melody
      I would be willing to bet that most all
      'religions' started out with as pure and
      self-less a goal. Few exist to make
      money or take advantage of innocent people.
      But like with all things conceptual and
      material, there is always the seduction
      of attachment and identification.

      Sandeep says use a concept to dig
      out other concepts, and then throw
      that concept away.

      The moment we're no longer willing
      to throw away that concept ( and the
      forums and the identities formed around
      that concept), is the moment we are likely
      to manifest all the negative characteristics
      of those 'other' people and religions.
       

       
      Stanley Sobottka

      Chapter 12. Nonduality, religion, and belief

      There is an enormous difference between the natures of the
      teachings of nonduality and those of religion. There is no
      theology in the purest forms of nonduality, whereas theology
      is the basis of religion. By theology, I mean a belief system
      which contains critical concepts that one is asked to
      believe as Truth but which cannot be verified within the
      individual’s own experience. 
       

       
       
      Same Direction
      Kristen Ankiewicz
       
      Doug  truevision list, a poem from Robert Bly
       
      A man and a woman sit near each other, and they do not
              long
      at this moment to be older, or younger, nor born
      in any other nation, or time, or place.
      They are content to be where they are, talking or not
             talking.
      Their breaths together feed someone whom we do not
             know.
      The man sees the way his fingers move;
      he sees her hands close around a book she hands to him.
      They obey a third body that they share in common.
      They have made a promise to love that body.
      Age may come, parting may come, death will come.
      A man and a woman sit near each other;
      as they breathe they feed someone we do not know,
      someone we know of, whom we have never seen.
       

       
       
       
       
       
       
       

       

       

       

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