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758Sunday, July 1

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    Jul 2, 2001
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      GARY MERRILL

      Does Acid have a life outside of the all night Rave? Tune in
      tomorrow, folks, to see if our young friends will avoid our
      mistakes and >enter directly into Nirvana without benefit of
      a chemical propulsion system. Curiously, Eric

      Wondering too...so keep on trukin' and postin'

      Interesting. As you know mind altering chemicals have been
      used in shamanic initiation since before history. The 'acid
      test' I suppose was an updated version for our times. See
      'Electric Kool Aid Acid Test' and 'Island' books, I expect
      you already have.

      From the point of view of initiation, then it is only
      necessary when moving out of one's present identity. Of
      course we don't have a coherent cultural form to support
      this, no tradition of holy men on the street. Also there is
      the trap of being, of identifying with this altered
      consciousness, objectifying it etc, which is trying to hold
      on to what only arises as a result of letting go.

      The weight of thick conditioning and identification tends to
      suggest that chemical initiation may be the only way that
      most brothers and sisters will get a taste. Non-dual logic
      would be either missed or become part of the game of
      identity.

      I'm not that familiar with the rave scene though I understand
      it has its own comradeship. In so far as its based on
      experiences its probably as 'spiritual' as any other religion
      :-) 'Liberation' for want of a better word, perhaps requires
      intelligence, insight etc if its not to degenerate into self
      indulgence, the fate of the sixties revolution. Of course,
      there was never any 'hippies' 'sixities' etc that was the
      media trying to get hold of something. The underground
      continues to exist by not existing :-)

      _______________________________________________________________________

      JERRY

      My observation is that one thing we all have in common is a
      natural attentiveness to consciousness itself. One can have a
      spouse, best friend, child, or other loved one, that has no
      interest in consciousness itself. Because of our common
      natural attentiveness, we might feel closer to each other
      than to family or our children. This inclination isn't the
      result of having an interest in consciousness, as such. If we
      were all naturally inclined toward an interest in the
      varieties of dry cleaning, the same tendency would hold.

      martinizingly, jerry

      *martinizing: a form of one-hour dry cleaning that every dry
      cleaner can provide, but that no human being has actually
      ever used. I'm not sure what the parallel is in
      spiritual-practice circles.

      MATTHEW

      for sure, and this is noted by the profoundly humorous critic
      of the human condition, kurt vonnegut as being a Gran
      Falloon, which is the assumption we make that since we have
      something in common with a complete stranger like being from
      indiana, or belonging to the elks club, or having the same
      alma mater, or in this case being on the same list, that
      there is an automatic connection, a bond of sorts. Yes it
      could even be dry cleaning.

      after referencing Kurt Vonnegut i piqued my own curiosity and
      dug up some fun stuff from various sites:

      One of the basic concepts of Bokononism, the secretive island
      religion of Kurt Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle, is that of a
      granfalloon. A granfalloon is a recognized grouping of people
      that, underneath it all, has no real meaning. The
      prototypical granfaloon in Vonnegut's book is Hoosiers: the
      main character of the book finds himself journeying to an
      island nation in the company of fellow Indianans, but other
      than the fact that they hale from the same state they have no
      significance in each other's lives.

      The opposite of a granfalloon, or at least one alternative,
      is the karass. These are the people whose lives are entwined
      in yours in mysterious yet profound ways. Often they are not
      part of any of your more obvious granfalloons, but in the end
      it is their presence on this earth that has great influence
      of the direction of your own life. Recognizing members of
      your karass is not an easy thing and some you may never
      identify, but part of the spiritual mission of Bokononists is
      to celebrate their karass.
      ___________________________________________________________________________
       

      JAN:

      Now 'how', that's correct: the question is irrelevant, or
      less mildly put, from a perspective of avidya. Because, the
      discovery is: how could "it" have been overlooked (all those
      years)? What is recognized is one's having been looking "away
      from it " unknowingly :)) So the $.001 question is "how could
      that (the forgetting) have happened? Irrelevant too - seeker
      history can't be undone - only good for a novel :))

      DAN:

      Hi Jan!

      Indeed ...

      And the movement away from "now" is a
         self-contradictory occurrence "now" ...

      It only seems to be "grounded in the past" ...

      In fact, it is this attempted movement to somehow
         exist apart from "now" that gives any sense of
         credence to the thought/impression/way of being:
         "my reality is grounded in the past" ...

      Nevermind that our whole "human history", ways
         of "doing culture and society", organization
         of relationships, religions and careers,
         "traditions" and "transmission of knowledge" --
         all involve this bias that
         there is an existence grounded in the past ...