668Sunday, April 1
- Apr 2, 2001GENE POOLE
Hi Jerry, you posed this question...
If we ever start The Course in Nonduality, this might be turned
into a good question on the finals:
wouldn't it be nice to talk about nonduality from the place
prior to anything ever having been written about it by anyone?
when people first started talking about nonduality, many must
have done it at the same time without knowing about the others.
we know what scriptures have survived, but i wonder what else
was being said that has been lost. what would you have talked
about? unable to refer to the nonduality of friends and
literature, what would you say to describe the nondual state and
what might prompt it? Pretend you're the first one!
There is at least one other way to approach this viewpoint.
It can be imagined that 'in the beginning', the 'nondual
viewpoint' was the one held in common; and that it was so, until
some kind of 'corruption' occurred.
So perhaps, we can ask, 'who were the first dualists'.
For reasons lost in the mists of time, 'duality' became the
dominant configuration, overtaking and eventually displacing the
To understand and to feel the naturalness of the natural native
(the result, for dualists, of doing nothing meditation), is a
wonderful and refreshing experience. To leave behind the
obligatory complexity of duality, is to open the vast space of
infinite possibility, in which all possibility exists as living
potential, a living intelligence, which blooms as
'thousand-petal lotus' if given the space...
I seems that it is inevitable that there are among us, those
whose world-dream conditioning failed to take root, allowing the
emergence of what is already always 'here'.
Hi Jerry, Nonduality cannot be known, yet it can be realized.
Nonduality is the default setting of life. Nonduality is 'what
Inquiry like: 'Who am I?' is largely misunderstood. Most people
seek 'the answer' to the inquiry. What they miss is that in this
inquiry 'the question *is* the answer'.
What does it mean that the question is the answer?-
Thought/trying/seeking subsides and 'That' which one is, is
lived. The inquiry 'Who am I?' reveals 'what you are not' - it
shows that you are not the body, the intellect, the senses or
anything that can be objectified. These things that 'you are
not' is all that is manifested (some prefer to call it
illusion)*** And*** they *point* to what you are- the 'living'
question also reveals 'what is'!!!
example: Words Words are not the thing they describe, yet their
meaning points to something beyond themselves (thoughts also do
this - it is an aspect of how the manifestation functions).
example: Silence If all there is, is Silence, how could you
understand it? You understand Silence because of sound. Sound is
not Silence, It comes from Silence, is surrounded by Silence and
returns to Silence. (the manifest points to the unmanifest - to
understand the unmanifest, clearly see the manifest).
When you are innocently with 'what is' (the
manifestation-exactly as it shows up) without creating the
mental idea of its opposite as 'what should be' or 'what I
really am' then you are living in harmony with 'what is' and
this is what you already are - what you always have
been.......it simply shows up 'this way'. The inquiry 'Who am I'
reveals the living present and when you truly see that the
'question is the answer', then the words/thoughts fall away
-*you are absent* and the timeless/nondual is! (you are the
absence of your absence - the first absence is intellectual, the
latter is when thought isn't).
Life is relationship. See 'what is'. (An interesting experiment
is to read all the creation myths and see the common themes -
like...In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God, the
Word is God - then behave as if these things were true - in
other words - what if the manifestation actually is God and
It/She/He simply shows up this way - would you in any way resist
'what is' and want things to be some other way?- would you need
to seek the Divine?)
I am the Unknown and it is constantly revealing Itself.
Love to all, James
Nonduality has relevance only in a framework of duality. If the
framework of duality is a concept, Nonduality is as much a
"Can be realized" presupposes, a "realizer"
When a "realizer" is no more, i,e, the entity to whom
realization is an issue, is no more, to whom can there be a need
to affirm (and affirm to whom), whether duality or Nonduality?
When duality is all bananas, Nonduality is also, all bananas.
Hi Sandeep, Exactly! If I say, 'I am that I am?' one can always
question the words and ask, 'Who is it that realizes 'I am that
I am'? or anything else that is said.
So my point is to see things as they are! See 'what is' - see
the nature and function of things like words and the 'manifest'.
Instead of condemning the words and/or the manifestation, see
them/it for what they are - they point to something beyond
JAN AND DAN
Without the requirement of upgrading software via Internet, I would have
º>been silent about nonduality the entire life, because in a society like
º>the present one, people are way too biased (through upbringing, education
º>and media) to understand the "original discovery" of nonduality and both
º>the laugh and beauty of it.
º>And being unfamiliar not only with nonduality, but with the entirety of
º>spirituality, and an atheist too, in my case, the discovery was made
º>"worst case" conditions...
º yet no one there
º to be amazed.
º"All this": no-thing.
º"All these beings"
º unaware, walking
º around, yet
º "no-thing" it is --
º unaware, walking
º"All this" and "all these"
º only no-thing the whole
ºWho's been fooled?
No thought whatsoever
No feeling whatsoever
Neither "me" nor "others"
Not veiled by thought
Not veiled by feeling
Not veiled by "me" or "others"
The nature of glass is transparency
Yet it can offer resistance
And get opaque when receiving blows
The weight of the glass cage
Only known when it is gone....
Then it appears as to have never existed
Transparency leaves no trace behind
Other than a "normalized" human being
FROM GURU TALK
My name is Karl and "Gurutalk" is a subject very dear to my
heart. I love to hear of devotees experiences and learn about
different enlightened masters. I am a devotee of Swami
Muktananda of Ganeshpuri, India and thanks to His grace over the
past twenty-two years have had many wonderful experiences. When
Swami Muktananda finished His sadhana, His guru, Bhagawan
Nityananda, revealed the Divine to Him in the form of an
Infinite Blue Light. About 3 1/2 years ago, I was sleeping, and
I had a dream that I was running furiously down a street. I
heard Baba chanting "Hara, Hara, Mahadev" and my heart exploded
with love. The force of this love was so powerful that in the
dream I almost fell over. When I woke, from the point between
the eyebrows, I saw a tiny stream of sparkling Blue Light.
Within a couple days, I found that all I have to do is close my
eyes for 10 minutes, and I see an infinite Field of Blue light.
Everyday, I meditate, and the Blue Light never fails to appear.
My beloved Baba has given me such a precious gift; I actually
see the non-dual reality in the form of light, and I know that
someday I will merge into it through grace. I do not know what I
have done to deserve such a Gift; everyday I worship in my
temple of Blue Light, and sometimes the breath is suspended, and
everything disappears into a sea of Consciousness. This only
lasts for about 10 or 15 seconds, but it is my hope that
continued sadhana will enable me to extend these experiences.
To my knowledge and experience, visions of blue light are a
"side-effect" of Kundalini - these experiences are so highly
individual, that to comment on them can be erroneous. A practice
of concentrating on it is useful as it results in
one-pointedness. As does the practice of concentrating on the
Further excerpts from The Song of Ribhu: The English Translation
of the Tamil Ribhu Gita. Ordering information below:
Chapter 5: All are Like the Horns of a a Hare; All Are Brahman
All the mobile and immobile world is like the horns of a hare.
This, the rare explanation by the grace of the Supreme Siva
Is that of which I will speak now.
Listen to this with a concentrated mind.
All that is seen as manifold is like the horns of a hare.
All objects that are seen are like the horns of a hare.
The seer too, is like the horns of a hare.
What is seen as all is like the horns of a hare.
What appears as 'Truth' is like the horns of a hare.
What is spoken in love is like the horns of a hare.
Interestedly listening to it is like the horns of a hare.
Teaching affectionately is like the horns of a hare.
Brahma creating the world is like the horns of a hare.
Hari protecting the world is like the horns of a hare.
Hara destroying it is like the horns of a hare.
Chapter 6: Speaking of the Bath in the Waters of Brahman and the
Mantra for Brahman
The best bath of all is the refreshing bath
In the reservoir that is the Supreme Brahman,
The perfectly full, which is not different from the Self.
Brave son! no other bath
In any other waters is a bath.
There is no mantra at all
To surpass the rare I-am-Brahman mantra,
As the seven crores of might mantras
Result only in several crores of births
And do not alter, in the least, the succession of births,
The blemishless I-am-Brahman mantra, greater than all,
Should, hence, be resorted to,
And all other mantras should be discarded.
"The guru is the last impediment, the last vestige of form a god. Once
you invest yourself in the guru and surrender to him. There is nothing
else afterwards, so you become like Nisargadatta Maharaj you return to
yourself. So it handy to have a guru even if it is to have the
opportunity to dispense with this form". Tony.
~All of my teachers and gurus just showed up...
sometimes despite my objections.
Falling in love and falling in gratitude with Papaji
was beyond choice.
Those turning points when equality became obvious
have also been given, not declared.
from Impossible Reality list
I would offer that only in man's conditioned arrogant
self-importance does he *think* that he has some Divine volition
to *create* anything other than the Illusions he is conditioned
to think are Real. Most positive thinking efforts most often
feeds humanity's folly. For it is not in filling the head that
we Truly Awaken, but rather in Emptying it. It is not in
individual self-importance that we Awaken, but rather in our
insignificance. It is not in our separation that we Awaken, but
rather in our Unity. It is not in our Duality that we Awakening,
but rather in our NonDuality. It is not in taking on more
conditioned ideas and images and meanings and notions of all
sorts that we Awaken, but rather in our letting go of the
conditioned baggage that we have already accumulated throughout
Wholeness or Totality is the foundation of NonDuality -- All Is
One, a Unity of Multiplicity. But "divine volition" ? What is
volition other than the ability to choose ? Volition, choice,
Divine or otherwise, is but a contrivance of Duality. If All Is
One, who is to choose ? If All Is One, what choices are there ?
So who is there to create ? Even Einstein said that nothing is
created but rather rearranged. There can only be One or Two, the
seeming mixture is folly. If you are to be Wholeness or Totality
or Oneness, may I offer that using Duality to do so is a
hypocrisy and contradictory and will only add to already
It is one's Understanding or Awareness of What-IS that must be
inclusive of All that IS. For "individual importance", even if
you say it is "who's singular presence is the universe",
connotes possession. Who is there to possess ? What can be
possessed ? "Singular personage integrity" is counterproductive
to Oneness or Wholeness or Totality.
We are conditioned to "self-validate" via our conditioned
notions. We are conditioned to *think* there is permanence ?
These are our conditioned notions. There are aspects (Laws) of
the Cosmos that are seemingly stable or permanent in our limited
short duration in any given incarnation. Yet, as each Moment is
Eternal and Infinite, each Moment IS anew and always in flux or
Meaning to get a way from intellectualization and avoid word
traps, I sailed across the sea to search for the transmission
beyond the teachings; went on pilgrimages till my sandals broke-
and found water in the clear stream, the moon in the sky.
- Kakua (1143-?)
from neosannyas 2 list
My funniest sharing is about daily life herenow:
Today it is very sunny in Munich,
15 degrees celsius.
We went to one of the beautiful lakes nearby,
we are my girlfriend Mimamai,
who makes me mostly laugh.
We walked around a lake, called Wörth-See,
it was so hot, that my Walrus-Skin
needed a bath and dried in sun.
Tonight we go to dance in a disco,
who is run by Sannyasins,
maybe Jivano will join.
Jivano is a friend of mine,
calling himself Bhagwan,
and loves to write.
from Guru Ratings list
"When you think a guru is needed, and the teacher says: "No guru
is needed," there will be conflict. And when, a month later, you
think: "All this shit with gurus, all that spiritial
hocus-pocus, I quit, it's all useless," there will be conflict
too, because then the other side shows up. Because both sides
Gosh, this is my experience exactly! Plus, even if I don't
"need" a teacher, I like having one (or more). In fact, as long
as it stays non-surrendery and there are no abuses of power,
it's quite pleasant...nuttin' like it.
I tend to favor teachers who are uncomfortable with being called
teachers, the ones who give you real tools you can use, and
those who tell you you already know/have everything but are
still available to you when you think you don't (Pamela Wilson,
Byron Katie, e.g.). Much better and healthier to be in
relationship to "real people," IMHO, as opposed to those who
play huge shakti-trips and employ major mind control (won't name
any names -- most have been mentioned here already!).
Even so -- as the official poster child for once burned, twice
shy -- I tend to keep a certain distance from the teachers I
love the most, which, for now, works for me. There are those who
would say, "She's not doing it right," but ya know what? Scroom.