Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

425HIGHLIGHTS - Sunday 30 July 2000

Expand Messages
  • Manchine
    Jul 31, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      CARING:

      MARCIA:
      I don't know what your problem is Judi but you need
      to lighten up.

      JUDI:
      I'll tell you what my problem is Marcia. I care.
      I see everyone going about their lives silently suffering
      their separatness from God, their ignorance. Breaks my heart.
      Totally.

      HARSHA:
      My dearest Judi,

      If it breaks your heart, it might mean that you are suffering. :-).
      Get over it!!! :-)

      JUDI:
      :-)) You're damn right I suffer! :-) Take a look at these idiots
      running around. If that's not to suffer, I don't know what is??? :-)

      MATTHEW:
      Bruce, i agree that my comment applies to everyone. What i was
      really saying was that, that will happen. Her approach will change. I'll
      put money on it(a couple of bucks anyway). She will get to a point and
      see that her approach really isn't working, and because of her
      caring, and dedication to others "getting it", her approach will
      change.(To what?, who can say) This is just what comes from being
      committed to serving others. It is simply an aspect of maturation.
      You keep trying and trying to put it in a way that can be "heard". An
      exhausting and usually fruitless even maddening,task but results are
      not the point anyway, service is the point.

      JUDI:
      Darn! :-) And I was so looking forward to everybody being happy!

      Shit. :-)

      MATTHEW:
      ---------------judi, thats my point. You are indeed looking forward
      to that and committed to it happening, whatever it takes. You aren't
      gonna let me down are you?


      MARK:
      Leonard Cohen suggests the following:

      Ring the bells that still can ring
      Forget your perfect offering
      There is a crack, a crack in everything
      That's how the light gets in.

      I say:
      Let your heart break. That's what hearts are for.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      MARK & MARCIA, SPIRITUAL PROGRESS:

      MARCIA:
      I am afraid to look at what picture is on the site. I have
      lots of pictures because I got a camera for Christmas but
      I am not sure how to load them onto the site.

      MARK:
      You have a lovely picture of yourself and your teenage kids (or so I
      presume) on the web. yum!

      MARCIA:
      I wish to talk a little more about the post on spiritual progress.
      I have a question actually. Gurdjieff said everything was material
      but of different densities (I apologize to G. and any real teacher
      if I screw this up). In other words everything could be weighed
      and measured if one had the know how.

      I have noticed that if or as I hold very still (in meditation) and
      this means most specifically my spinal column, and let my attention
      ride on the breath without interfering with it (I know this is
      happening if I can feel the sensation in my nose of the breath
      going in and out), and something happens like a loud noise
      or a fight between the kids, I can sense the emotion rise
      and sort of just 'turn over'. The rising and falling of an
      emotion. This is a real physical occurrence but of a much
      finer subtle energy than my ordinary consciousness or
      experience of emotional reactions. Why am I saying this?
      Because this seems very measurable. So when I read that
      post, I was both laughing internally (saying to myself that I
      would know what Judi would think of this), and I was
      intrigued at the same time.

      MARK:
      I am intrigued as well. What else have you noticed?

      MARCIA:
      If or as I am holding very still as mentioned above, I have,
      on occasion experienced the reception of what can only
      be termed Grace. Now this emotion is very different
      and also does not originate on the ordinary plane of
      consciousness. I have had the wherewithal to ask this
      energy/emotion for help.

      Can you relate to any of this?

      MARK:
      Yes. I seem to revisit it again and again, and am slowly learning to
      trust in it and allow it. (to accept the help offered by it) That's
      what I mean when I say there is no bottom. It seems to get more
      intimate, more powerful if I abandon myself to it. What helped a good
      deal for me was my friend Mary's quoting of Anthony DeMello (I'd go
      hunt for his original words, but I am on my way out the door for day two
      of a breathworkshop, so forgive the liberal dose of paraphrasing...).
      DeMello says something like, why cling to things to keep from falling?
      Everything is falling. That is what I experience in meditation and more
      and more often in my active life as well. I am perfectly safe
      free-falling. That started for me in meditation, and is energetic in
      nature. I don't really know how to put it into words well. I can take
      a breath and let it out and feel where it ends, and then take another
      and let it go deeper, and another and deeper. It's not forcing the
      breath out, it's really allowing the breath to depart however it will.
      This brings me to a deep, quiet place that feels like home. My latest
      joy has been demonstrating this directly to those who will allow my to
      hug them long enough to go through several breath cycles. That for me
      goes so much deeper, so I am always looking for the opportunity. When I
      do this a few times, I feel open everywhere. It's quite astounding. I
      feel capable of being quiet and listening to people, I feel capable of
      feeling their emotions, and it is not frightening, it's just intimate.
      (even strong emotions of worthlessness or rage - they come in, but don't
      stick. When I haven't done it in awhile (when I have forgotten it),
      those same emotions are so dangerous, and I can go into terrible mind
      states. so far, I seem to have survived even those though.)) It started
      out for me as an intellectual curiosity about what people meant when
      they talked about kundalini and chakras, and has turned into a
      recognition that it is all love (it's an energy, but it's flavored -
      hard to say), flowing around in majestic circles. We can just let it
      flow through us, no need to do anything. It's wonderful. People are
      afraid to hear about it though, and it takes some practice to allow it
      anyway, to not need to depend on approval. Do you see what I am saying,
      or have I sidestepped your question to talk about me? (the answer could
      be yes and yes)

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      JUDI XAN & MARK Falling into Truth:

      JUDI:
      Matthew, May I ask why is it a concern to you whether
      someone else is enlightened or not? Wouldn't you agree that
      your concern should be with the fact that you're not?

      I mean it seems to me there should come a time, when you
      let everyone else go and just look to your own present
      experience itself - presently.

      I was down the bookstore
      this evening and Saniel Bonder was giving a talk. And he
      talked about 'greenlighting' yourself. In other words, you
      finally give yourself the go ahead to go those places where
      you really don't want to go. You allow yourself to go into,
      even fall into, right into your failure. You allow yourself
      to snuugle up, as it were, to your fears. I mean, you been
      everywhere else, why not? :-) Think adventure! Heroic.

      XAN:
      ~ Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes!
      Awakening is personal and intimate, just between you and You.
      When your intention is clear to look into yourself - your delusions
      and your Truth - teachers, no teachers, and teachings show up as
      needed.

      It is the mind that loves to analyze, evaluate and compare
      and it is this mind that veils the truth of you.


      MARK:
      Yes, this is the falling that I speak about. It's falling into failure.
      falling into success as well. falling into it just as it is. failure is
      fine. no problem we all fail. we all succeed. we all love we all
      hate we all fear we all celebrate. percieving it as a problem is the
      only problem.

      Love, Mark

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      MINDS

      GLORIA:
      "To know that you are a prisoner of your own mind, that you live in an
      imaginary world of your own creation is the dawn of wisdom."
      Nisargadatta Maharaj


      DAN:
      In Western myth,
      this is the story of Lucifer,
      who suffered from a delusion
      that it was possible
      for someone other than God to
      be God.

      Delusion leads to construction of
      private reality with "me" as
      master of what is surveyed.

      Because it never exists, it
      is called "delusion."
      Because it turns heaven
      into hell (just look
      around), it is called
      "worth seeing through".

      "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done,
      on earth as it is in heaven."

      "Nevertheless, not my will,
      but Thine be done."


      DANIEL HELLER:
      I love Maharaj but I must say, after listening to Wayne and Ramesh
      quite a bit, and Ramana, I don't share the opinion that we make our
      own prisons. And Maharaj was said to have made it clear that there
      was no bondage.

      Again there is possible translation confusion in taking Maharaj's
      teaching from I Am That, or from the Jean Dunn or Robert Powell
      books. I have loved those books myself, but in the end I think
      Pointers From Nisargadatta Maharaj by Ramesh is most likely to
      preserve the spirit of Maharaj, since Ramesh was arguably M's closest
      disciple and certainly understood completely.

      Of course, with Maharaj any translator or editor was faced with the
      problem of Maharaj's earthy sense of humor and frequent "toilet talk"
      or locker room talk- I've heard he often elaborated on lofty
      spiritual topics with references to peepee and caca and sex, etc.

      (Though I admit this may be off the subject of mental illness.)


      HARSHA:
      The greatest Shankracharyas and Yogis of India sat at the feet of the Sage
      of Arunachala, Ramana Maharshi, to catch a glimpse of his eyes. Fully
      immersed in the ocean of consciousness, His life was that of utterly
      spontaneous immaculate purity. His light shone like the fully risen Sun
      bathing in Its Own Eternal Luster. Truly, nothing really can be said of
      Ramana to describe Him adequately. He Is the Heart.



      DANIEL HELLER:
      My guru, so to speak, is Wayne (Liquorman.) Though I don't really
      differentiate between Wayne, Ramesh, Maharaj, and Ramana.

      Except that Wayne is the tall fat bald ex-druggie, Ramesh is the
      ex-bank president, Maharaj was functionally illiterate, and Ramana

      well, what about him?

      Since you asked.

      Thank you all for your welcomes


      MICHAEL:
      No, thank you!

      Having once met Wayne L. I appreciate your 'so to speak'. He is
      delightful! About a month ago he passed through Portland, OR (where
      I keep this carcass) and Judi Rhodes let me know he was going to be
      here. Since I had read his 'No Way' book I was very interested in
      seeing him. What a treat!

      The first thing he said was (I loosely quote) "Everything is
      conciousness, is God. Once you've got that, you're done." He then
      gently and with great good humor proceeded to speak and entertain
      questions.

      He is one of whom it can truely be said, "In him there is no guile."

      First he devulges the greatest 'secret' and then just laughs! :-))

      HAHAHAH and HOHOHO!

      Peace - One and One is One and One - Michael



      CHRISTIANA:

      He (Johne Wellwood) writes as bridge between the Western focus on the
      personal
      and interpersonal and the Eastern suprapersonal ground of being.

      "Another way to say this is that in addition to waking up to our
      ultimate spiritual nature, we also need to grow up - to ripen into
      a mature, fully developed person."

      From Amazon review: "Have you ever noticed that self-described
      spiritual people are not necessarily all that easy to be with? John
      Welwood has a term for what often happens--spiritual bypassing.
      This is when a person reaches for the stars while forgetting about the
      goop on his shoes."


      MICHAEL:
      Thank you, Christiana. This rings true. More true, I think, for those
      who seek spirituality as an escape from this world and the fear
      that living here can bring.

      I have seen some who can/could go into samhadi and just glow! Then
      returning from thier meditation were/are the most obnoxious little
      turds! Heeheehee!

      But that's OK. It's just the Play of the Universe.

      The other day, to escape the heat, I ambled down to the nieghborhood
      tavern for a brew and a bite and a game or two of pool. While
      there I was engaged in conversation by a fellow who was most
      passionate about basketball. He became very upset and emotional
      as he held forth on the 'sorry state of the NBA'!

      Inside I was just laughing! No, not at him, but at the Self
      who was in there talking about the NBA to the Self that is in here!

      HAHAHAH and HOHOHO!

      Peace - Walking in Wonder - Michael

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      MICHAEL DAN nad ANDREW AT PLAY:

      MICHAEL:
      Not laughing 'at you'
      Not laughing 'with you'
      Laughing over here 'beside you'
      Hmmm...beside myself with laughter!

      HAHAHAH and HOHOHO!

      Peace - do Be, do Be, do, indeed - Michael


      DAN:
      Michael-san,
      That's not me beside
      you, and it's not
      you beside yourself.

      As there's no way
      to figure this out:
      I'll laugh you,
      and you laugh me.

      -- Dan

      ANDREW:
      Mirror mirror off the wall
      who's the enlightenedest of them all?

      I'm enlightened.
      Yeah right.
      I'm not enlightened.
      Yeah right.

      Who cares?

      Polishing?
      Progress?
      Good luck.
      You aint going nowhere.

      That's not me in there,
      no way!

      The mirror's broken!

      I can't see myself.
      Freedom!


      MICHAEL:
      Thank you, Andrew!

      Now, could you please pass me another bottle of Dammitall?
      These biscuits are dry and in need of gravy!

      HooHa! Michael


      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      PSYCHOTHERAPY

      MATTHEW:
      You've been reading too many psychology books dan.
      Guilt steering the boat? It's time for a mutiny boss.
      Useful guilt? Not a chance, not in my neighborhood.
      There is such a thing as remorse, often confused as guilt,
      but not even close to each other.
      .............matthew, who is not under the delusion that freedom from
      guilt means we are free to do anything we want.



      DAN:
      Matthew,
      You raise an issue worth examining, I feel.
      I've examined this issue as
      part of working with people, and I
      share my position as it is now,
      based on psychological
      work and conversation with
      others doing the same.

      Here's what I'm talking about, it
      comes from working with people who
      have experienced guilt. Saying
      "get rid of the guilt, it's useless"
      isn't always the helpful thing to say
      or do. It depends on what the guilt
      is about. Neurotic guilt isn't helpful
      and can be tossed. Guilt when there has
      been and continues to be hurt to self or others
      can be useful. I've found that having absolutistic
      rules in life isn't particularly helpful, including
      a rule like "guilt can never be useful, so always
      get rid of it right away".

      Now, there is unsplit awareness beyond guilt.
      And there is awareness with no "doer"
      in which impeccable action occurs
      without awareness of separation.
      Guilt doesn't arise as a factor if there
      is impeccable action with no doer.
      However, trying automatically to get rid of guilt,
      without noticing first what it's about,
      isn't impeccable at all.

      Guilt may play a part in moving
      away from split-minded actions
      and allow opening.
      It depends on the situation.
      So, I'm talking about dealing constructively
      with people, where they're at, with
      what they're experiencing in a given
      situation.

      Suggesting everyone should toss all guilt
      sounds like you've read too many pop-psych books of
      the superficial kind. In fact, it strikes
      me as ironic that you've noticed that everyone is
      not as enlightened as they would like to believe.
      That's exactly why guilt has a role to play at times.

      Guilt is when you see you are or
      have been hurting
      someone or yourself, realizing
      continuing on the same way
      is not useful. It can be related to
      compassion and empathy.

      Guilt that's useful leads to atonement,
      not to self-punishment. That kind of
      guilt is recognition of a mistake,
      it's not the internalization of
      someone else's evaluations (which is
      "neurotic guilt").

      At - one - ment, yes, this can
      be the opening that arises from
      honest guilt.

      And definitely, it involves remorse!
      That's what I'm talking about.

      It strikes me as somewhat odd that
      you separate guilt and remorse
      so definitively in this way.
      That just doesn't fit with my
      experience of working with people.
      They're simply not as separate as you assume.

      This is not about psychology books,
      it's about real work with people
      who have hurt others and themselves
      and recognize it's time to change.
      Guilt can play a part in that change process.
      For example, someone has been physically or emotionally
      abusing someone. If that one starts to allow
      feelings of guilt (which have often been pushed
      away or denied), that can be useful.
      It's connected with feelings of remorse and
      movement to change. Maybe you're confusing guilt
      with self-blame? Those two aren't the same.
      I can say, "I hurt someone, I don't feel good about it,
      and I want to change the pattern." Guilt is the
      "not feeling good" part. It can be healthy.
      Just like not feeling good after eating certain
      foods can be a signal not to keep up that
      pattern of eating. So, there can be healthy
      guilt, and it doesn't have to involve self-blame.
      The energy of guilt is part of an ill-feeling that
      leads to change. If one feels just fine about abusing
      someone, feels no guilt about it, why would one change?

      I think you may be confusing unnecessarily
      holding on to guilt (which can be very
      self-limiting) with using guilt in
      a healthy way, which involves releasing
      it. You acknowledge guilt, feel remorse,
      atone, accept, and release.

      Essentially, guilt involves honestly acknowledging
      a mistake. Thinking that one can
      make no mistakes can lead to
      many problems.

      And yes, there are people who avoid
      guilt, wanting to act as if hurting
      others doesn't matter.

      Guilt has a place in the scheme of things.

      In fact, there is nothing out of place.



      MARCIA:
      "The therapy model and the nonduality model don't fit together.
      To accept therapy, you have already accepted a mind set with enormous
      implications."

      CHRISTIANA:
      John Welwood has written a very good book on this topic. "Toward a
      psychology of awakening: Buddhism, Psychotherapy, and the path of
      personal and spiritual transformation" c.2000 Shambhala

      From the introduction: As awareness starts to move beyond the
      boundaries of the conditioned personality structure, this expansion
      inevitably challenges that structure, flushing out old, subconscious,
      reactive patterns that often emerge with a vengeance. From a modern
      perspective, they can also be understood and worked with
      psychologically - as subconscious aspects of one's conditioned
      personality structure that often break through into consciousness
      only when that structure is thoroughly challenged by the process of
      awakening to one's larger nature. If these psychological issues are
      not addressed, they often cause distortions in people's spiritual
      development. So it is not enough just to have spiritual realizations.
      It is also esssential to deconstruct the subconscious emotional and
      mental patterns that are held in the body and the mind, and that
      prevent people from fully embodying a larger way of being in their
      lives."


      DAN:
      Egads!
      Just what we need.
      Another authority
      telling us
      what we really need to do,
      and how we really should
      be doing it!



      MARCIA:
      I am not saying that a person doesn't need to work through
      their issues. It is the perspective that one has about it and the
      technique that is employed. Therapy starts from the position
      that the issue is real and needs to be fixed. The idea is whether
      I identify myself as the issue or whether the issue is another
      constriction to be seen for what it is and let go of. Do you
      believe the issue is who you are? Do you believe the story?
      A person who has spiritual realizations is not (IMO) realized
      but a person having glimpses. Position is everything. A fully
      enlightened person doesn't need therapy. They are whole; unified.
      We hold ourselves and others in place by how we see them.
      Let go of the image and movement takes place.



      MARK:
      I don't know... I wonder if this is too sweeping a statement about
      therapy... The therapy that I have had has shown me how my issues are
      storylines that I run and voices that I speak, which may have a logical
      source, but which no longer serve me. I was just at a two day workshop,
      where everyone had this same story demonstrated to them. Feelings
      first. dunk! now what was that you just felt, and how did it arise? Oh,
      I see, I'm just like all of them!! I complain about how my Mother is
      always criticizing me, what? I rush in to do it first to protect
      myself? Why so I do!! It's not my Mother I'm always complaining
      about... IT'S ME!!!! Hooooh boy! Ten people, ten stories, ALL
      IDENTICAL!!! (okay, maybe a father or a brother thrown in for fun, but
      hey, it's all ME, ME, ME. So who is this me? And why is he so eager to
      cause me suffering? What a crazy job! Shit, I don't even get payed for
      it. No benefits, NOTHING!!! sheesh indeed.

      I am reading The Inward Arc - Healing in Psychotherapy and Spirituality
      by Frances Vaughan. She says "Healing happens more easily through us
      when we allow it to happen in us. In this way the wounded healer who,
      at the existential level, identifies with the pain and suffering of
      those he or she attempts to heal, becomes the healed healer who, being
      grounded in emptiness and compassion, can facilitate healing more
      effectively. By perceiving Spirit not as a realm apart from others, but
      as the ground of being of all realms, healing awareness may be
      established as the context of any interaction, and any situation may
      become an opportunity to heal." (quick nod to oh for pointing this out
      to me awhile back) Sounds both therapeutic and nondual to me. I don't
      think one has to put the cart before the horse (oh, yikes, I meant to
      say the horse before the cart...) Well, I'm saying they can walk side by
      side at least part of the way (the part that's downhill? I always push
      the metaphor too far. I should call them metafars)

      What I learned this weekend is the meaning of the phrase heartfelt
      honesty. It's much more than just vanilla honesty. Who knows? It may
      even be truly honest. I've known for years that I am an alchoholic and
      that I'm ashamed of it. Today I know it in my heart. No foolin anymore
      (unless I go back into the shame and take up residence again, which I
      may do... It's so comfy in there. I know it so well. It's kinda scary
      out here - all that light, it hurts my eyes.) "The future's so bright,
      I gotta wear shades." (Timbuk2) You used to all that light yet,
      Michael?



      CHRISTIANA:
      Hi Dan..

      I was a bit surprised by your response here. I thought that you and
      John were colleagues of sort. I don't sense the tenor of the book
      being flavored with imperatives.. more pointers, along a continuum.

      I see a kind of evolution from the therapeutic into the nondual. What
      has been significant, for me, is that I've observed the flow of mind
      for years through meditation and as observed through Depth Psychology
      or Transpersonal work, but now it is being seen through as false or
      dissonant movement from Witness position. A subtle but very
      significant shift. Seen not from within the container, but from the
      locus of awareness beyond the container. These seem to me to be steps
      in the evolution of Psychotherapy into the nondual. And I sense that
      there is an omnidirection to this flow. I can not say that the
      newfound fledgling capacitance to drop or stop or be pushed through
      the identity container through Grace, would have occured without a
      longstanding ruthless commitment to applying awareness to the core
      roots of identity. This has operated in tandem with listening through
      the heart. At present, Psychology is not what calls me, yet the
      understanding, engendered therein, has innumerable applications in my
      daily life. I agree, no new hat of ideation to wear is important. I
      rest in an open head which notices bifurcation. I entered this
      discussion merely as a voice noting that eschewing therapy tends to
      bifurcate.

      And John Welwood (and I) would most definitely, and paradoxically,
      agree with you regarding this:


      DAN:
      So much conceptualization about
      what a realized person is or isn't,
      what they supposedly need or don't need.
      Speculation, opinion, fruitless mental
      energy.

      Generates another concept, another
      imaginary picture to try to hang a hat on.

      What is It that is right now moving
      through everything in the entire
      universe?

      It's moving through "you" right now!!

      Does It care if you're "realized"
      or "not realized", "going to therapy"
      or "not going to therapy"???

      Wake up to It!
      BE It!
      There is nothing
      It isn't!!

      Hallelujia!!!!

      (or something like that)



      DAN:

      When there is no model being imposed,
      then nonduality simply *is*.
      BEING, all else follows.
      Whatever flows from BEING, flows
      from being.
      If one is doing therapy, do therapy.
      If one is eating, eat.
      And you're right, if I have a model
      of what therapy is, and I impose
      it on an "other", awareness behaves
      as if split.
      And it is equally split if I think I
      have a "nonduality model" to impose
      on reality.
      Fitting things into a "nonduality model"??
      Help!

      MARCIA:
      Yes, that part wasn't right. :-)

      I am working at expressing something and not making
      it clear; perhaps because it is not clear to me.
      Let me try again. We have these stories that we are
      writing. A giant weaving cause stories blend together
      and come apart and so forth. Therapy fixes the story
      so that it works better. In some cases this has to
      happen otherwise the story will end or be very dysfunctional
      and disrupt the larger dreambody. But in no way can
      working from within the story ever get a person outside
      the story. That is like trying to pick up the board you are
      standing on. Therapy is like tuning up the car or changing
      the spark plugs but it will never tell you what direction to
      go or how to drive the car. You can't be whole by fixing
      the parts. You get out of the story and you are whole.



      GENE with MARCIA:

      NDS

      Hi Marcia,

      You wrote:

      " Therapy starts from the position
      that the issue is real and needs to be fixed."

      Wherein I replied: Your statement does not represent my understanding of
      therapy. In fact, the Great Secret known by aware therapists, is that
      the "issue" is never real. What is real is the painful world the
      patient has generated.

      To help someone let go is good, but to help someone to understand the
      nature of their congestion is better; a case of giving a fish VS
      teaching to fish.

      The patient-identified 'issue' is seen as the cork in the bottle;
      upon removal, flow is initiated. Circulation is reinstated. Sharing
      becomes possible.

      Obscurations of consciousness occur at the behest of the operator of
      that consciousness; vision so edited is distorted but "safe". Rather
      than chase the mean dog out of the yard, it is decided that running
      from the mean dog is good, normal, virtuous, and 'highly spiritual'.

      There are many styles of running from the mean dog. One style is to
      edit the image of the dog out of the field of vision, thus to not see
      what is biting one's ass.

      Our world-dream mass culture deems denial a proper stance, and lends
      its considerable persuasive power to those whose denial is being
      threatened by the insurgent forces of awareness.

      Thus we have millions of dogs biting millions of asses, and a vast
      industry of drug-psychiatry to come to the aid of denial.

      Real actual therapy takes all of this into account, and aims to arm
      the patient against pervasive world-dream traps. It is the violence
      of the enforcment of denial which is the queasy fear which plagues so
      many; and every one has been punished for seeing what is real.

      Then:

      MARCIA:
      Gloria,

      You asked what identification was. Identification is simply
      believing in the world you have created. You are identified
      with your own creation. Your identity is locked up in the
      imaginary world you have created.

      Everyone has a "story." Sometimes the storyline changes
      so we believe we have progressed but this is just a new
      story. To see the whole storytelling mechanism
      for what it is, is the dawn of wisdom which is spoken
      about.

      GENE:
      Wise words on the whole; however, I point out that while seeing the
      mechanism is good and helpful, it is necessary to admit to the events
      which enable our isolation (denial) and alienation.

      We have all been assaulted from our earliest days; those who suffer
      the most now, are those who were 'overly socialized' to the point of
      being afraid to see, let alone admit, to the nature of the people
      around them. In this unfortunate but common scenario, the victimizer
      will define hirself as GOOD, and the victim as BAD.

      Proper therapy addresses this issue as real, but also seeks to cast
      light on the issue of why we are prisoners of morality. By filling
      our children with codices, we make them vulnerable to codices.

      A person is vulnerable to whatever forces are subscribed to.


      ==Gene Poole==

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      GENE with DAVE:
      NDS

      DAVE:
      Gene wrote a very powerful piece Thursday, that still has
      left an echo (as usual).

      This piece gets to the very bottom of "what's going on".
      My wife follows much of this stuff, and I tried to
      translate the piece that Gene wrote, but couldn't, at
      least not verbatim as he had written it. I sort of resumed
      the piece in a form most closely relating to where she is
      at right now, but the depth still escapes her.

      GENE:
      If your wife actually has active questions, perhaps you could
      translate and post here. I will be happy to give some kind of answer.

      DAVE:
      On another note, there is a focus of work here in Chile
      that uses varios forms of Eastern dogma as means in
      psycho-analisis for transpersonal analysis in personal
      change scenarios. I was asked if there could be some
      common elements in those practices that could be seen or
      extracted as techniques of a lesser "religious" nature.

      Evaluating these last two concepts; that we can get close,
      in words, to a description of what is going on, and that
      there seems to be a set of ways and means at getting to
      the understanding of "the reality", it becomes evident
      that we must take another look at what is going on.

      First, let us use the model that Gene described as
      basically true! I know that's a big leap, truth is what's
      left after we stop coloring and manipulating the image
      with our personal impressions, but I'd make another
      supposition and say that among us, there are very few that
      have the capacity to present a topic as serious as this,
      with as little personal color as Gene. So for now, lets
      take it as the truth.

      OK, that said, it appears that the truth is very difficult
      to see, for one, and for another, if it can be glimpsed,
      through a portal such as that created by Gene, a majority
      of us seem to say, "Oh, that's nice... but what's it got
      to do with me".

      We are all trying to get to the truth, yet when it is
      presented plainly in front of our face, it seems there are
      too many other things to do to take it seriously.

      GENE:
      Opening to the truth can be like an acid-trip. It seems that
      many people, feeling it coming on, shut down the truth-valve.

      DAVE:
      I spoke with a girl for an hour and a half yesterday
      morning, someone who was interested in consciousness and
      enlightenment. I travelled 120 Km. to talk to her. I
      explained what consciousness is. I explained that everyone
      sees things in a different way, and that previous
      experiences have a lot to do with how one sees and reacts
      to things, all the while the "actual reality" is there in
      front of our face and practically has nothing to do with
      our impression of it.

      She seemed to be following. I explained that consciousness
      is perception and for the normal person it is highly
      focused in "personal falsehoods". Mmm, I can see that she
      said. I said one must open their vision, try to look
      beyond their personal impressions. What IS the reality
      that is NOT colored by our personal feelings. On various
      ocasions I gave her little excercizes to help "defocus"
      her consciousness, to see things, through eyes of other or
      to imagine how reality is "actually".

      Finally after everything, we were saying good-byes and I
      said OK, now remember your excersizes. "What excersizes?",
      she said. "Looking at the world through different eyes,
      seeing reality", I said. "Oh yeah" she said, I'll try.

      GENE:
      I am (somewhat uncomfortably) familiar with what you describe here.

      It is hard to say this clearly, but, to advocate seeing the
      distortions as being vital information, is a high and good service.
      It is the personal reality which is the readout of the deeply held
      assumptions which form the template which moment to moment, distorts
      reality.

      Most important, is what Buddha pointed to as being the actual cause
      of suffering, the "assumption of incompleteness" (Dukkha).

      It is the 'assumption of incompleteness' which Ramana alluded to in
      his admonitions to seekers. Specifically, he indicated that it is the
      assumption that one is not enlightened (or aware enough), which
      initiates the sadness and the search.

      So very many people carry unspoken, but otherwise expressed, the
      assumption that they are not 'good enough'. Striving and seeking are
      prime symptoms of the 'assumption of incompleteness', and are also
      socially virtuous in the reality of the world-dream.

      Seeing our own assumptions, may be difficult if we never say them in
      words; this is why the distortions in our personal-dream are of such
      high value. Our actions speak louder than our words; our enacted
      lives explain our conditioning better than our words possibly can.

      Passing this on is a good thing to do.

      And never underestimate the power of denial.

      DAVE:
      The problem is, that the stuff that we all talk about
      here, "is not real". Our problems are real, our feelings
      are real. We meditate, the idea is expand the boundaries,
      open consciusness, not focus in "me". Gene gave us the
      answer. go find that.

      We must believe that "all of this does not exist in the
      way we think it does".

      GENE:
      Again, the 'way we think it does' is not to be thrown out like
      yesterday's bathwater; rather, it can be savored like the finest of
      champagnes. It certainly is more expensive than champagne!

      DAVE:
      There are techniques, yes, but the techniques are always
      pointing to how to get to reality. Use the techniques to
      see the reality that is NOT colored by your personal view.


      GENE:
      Thanks, Dave.

      I advocate walking right into the inverter, now that I see that it is
      harmless, if not painless.

      PS: It is the stand-up comic, who masters the art of turning piss into wine.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      MANCHINE:
      Those who have awakened, have come to the realization, at least
      in part, that what they see in front of their eyes is a miracle,
      within which any burning bush would be commonplace.


      MICHAEL:
      In That Flame - i am consumed
      The Lover knows no bounds!

      Gleeful laughter rings in Life

      Peace - Michael



      MICHAEL:
      This is Mine

      All that is seen
      Even in imagination
      Is Mine.

      The mighty do I set up
      The lowly as well
      Oh mind, put judgement aside
      These are Mine.

      Trials I give as love
      Rewards are but ashes
      All that is is Mine,
      There is no Other.

      Children and drunkards see me
      The vain do not.
      I hide my ever present Face
      And play the game of Seek.

      One flick of my finger
      The world is put Aright;
      The world in steeped in Darkness.
      Drink in the sun and laugh!

      No one escapes Me!
      Nothing moves without Me!


      Rare are those who drink my Wine!
      They are Me.

      Even those who seek me not
      Yeah, they are Me!

      Every scrap of dung
      I Transform
      This is Mine!
      Yeah, you are Me!


      Rejoice in Me;
      Though I place you in the Dung
      I hold you in My Hand!

      Om. Shallah. Tat.
      The secret tongue
      Is known by all
      I AM THAT ALL.

      I set the worlds afire!

      From the Awakening Heart - Mu