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306NDS Highlights for Saturday, April Fools Day

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  • Melody
    Apr 2, 2000
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      NEO:

      Perhaps the answer is right in front of our eyes, perhaps not. I
      believe the eyes and everything they see to be a mental projection.
      The answer is perhaps beyond our eyes.

      (and)


      Warmth and peace and love are not
      lubricants, it is what we are at the core.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      HANS:

      Isn't it a lovely mindgame ? Who are you, Dan, Bruce, Jodi, Marcia, Melody,
      Neo, Glo, Phil, Paul etc.
      Who am I. You exist only in my imagination. And so do I. If i don't use my
      imagination, you simply do not exist. So Who is speaking with Who, Who is
      arguing with Who, Who is fighting with Who Who is defending Who is
      attacking Who.

      I haven't got a clue.

      Please enlighten me, i'm in total darkness.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      UMBADA:

      A person can get lost in anger or in peace if one is avoided
      and the other sought.

      (and)

      It may be easy for some people to say that nothing needs to
      be done, that everything is as it should be, but people need
      to be kept busy until that is realized. That's why so many
      teachers have developed their own brand of 'work'. Work is
      good. All work serves to bring a person to that which is
      nondual, unchanging reality.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Jerry shares some words of SWAMI VEDA:

      "In the practice of silence, only truth is spoken.
      Speak truth; speak that which is pleasant.
      Do not speak unpleasant truth; do not speak pleasant
      untruth.
      This is the ancient law of silence, that all spoken words
      come true when they arise from the depths of silence."

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      gen shares:

      from The Mantiqu't-Tair of
      Faridu d Din'Attar

      (translator Fitzgerald)

      "All you have been, and seen, and done,
      and thought,
      Not *You*, but I, have seen and been
      and wrought. . .
      Pilgrim, Pilgrimage and Road
      Was but Myself toward Myself:
      And your arrival but Myself
      At my own Door. . .
      Come, you lost Atoms, to your Centre draw. . .
      Rays that have wandered into Darkness wide,
      Return, and back into your Sun subside."

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      MARK:

      could it be that the only problem with negative emotions is when we
      identify the source of the negative emotion as someone other than
      ourself? The problem then arises that when the negative emotion is
      there, we blame the other for providing it.


      JAN:
      An excellent question. With experiential knowledge on how
      identification works, it is quite possible not to respond to
      emotions, whether negative or positive. The margin of reason
      and intellect is rather narrow; when the margin is exceeded,
      reason and intellect are left behind with the familiar
      results. What can one do when a post clearly exceeds accepted
      limits of behavior? Warn the proper authorities and follow
      instructions :) Or when it is clear it concerns a "paper
      tiger" post, just ignore :) This requires some self-discipline
      and restraint, maybe rare character assets these days...

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      ANDREW:

      Com passion is shared passion. There can't be real compassion unless there is real
      passion. Real passion is being happy when you're happy, sad when you're sad, angry
      when you're angry. Supressing 'negative' passions is attachment to those passions.


      NEO:
      Yes, suppression is attachment and not good at all. I do think it is
      also possible to not have any anger or other negative emotions.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      From HANS:


      IMO, the question is not what i can do, but if i can just look and do
      nothing. If i can't , i am *DUAL* and the name of this game is *NONDUAL*.
      At the same time, this can become a big trap. I notice that i am *dual*, so
      i want to become *nondual* but this very act is *dual*. So, what can i do ?
      Nothing. But i notice that i can not do *nothing*, so i try to find ways to
      do *nothing*, but that is *dual* again. So, what can i do. Nothing. And this
      can take 1 moment (so they say) or several years (i know). I am still in it.

      Your Highness Nothingness

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      ANDREW:

      Realise that the notion of self and other is false then there's no one to
      be angry at.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      CEE:



      why converse with apparent others
      in a dream world --
      when we could be wallowing in (as)
      the fathom-less bliss of self?

      why have the impossible (non-dual!)
      conversation at all?

      who
      is having it!

      it's the salon of the non-conversation
      among those that don't exist
      and still, joyfully
      communicate.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      HENRY:

      .......................channelled material is
      from our own Highest Self, which is one with the One, which is
      nondual in nature.
      But as the information is channelled down, or as it comes down the pipeline,
      with each change of pipeline, it gets smaller and smaller.
      Like at the top, the pipe is infinite, then connected to a pipe of say 10
      sillion miles across, which is connected to a smaller pipe, etc down to
      pipes of 6 feet, 4 feet---3 inches, 1 inch etc.
      So I think that channelled material is filtered through pipes of different
      sizes. down to us. We, of course, are also pipes of different sizes which
      will respond to a connection which fits us at the present time. End

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      SAMUEL:

      This Saloon... is like an ongoing play,
      with ~courtesy~... the one rule to obey.

      The cast and the audience... intertwined,
      as spirit moves each... to be so defined.

      Some ad-lib their 'part'... in a burlesque way...
      others read from scripts... all the words they 'say'.

      The plot tends to ebb... or with gusto flow,
      depending on how bright the moon does glow.
      (just kidding... :-)

      The one thing that's always consistent here...
      there's much to ponder... while we sip our 'cheer'.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Henry offers some timely RUMI:


      Out
      beyond
      ideas of
      right thinking
      or wrong thinking
      is a field.
      I'll meet you there.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      XAN and MARCIA:

      xan:

      ~ How about the shock of not rebuilding?
      For me this was the most shocking.

      Marcia:

      I thought about that as I was writing. It is not really
      rebuilding but letting it go. You know what I mean?


      xan:
      ~ Maybe rebuilding as the habit of constant letting go?


      Marcia:

      When I get a shock my temptation is to hang onto it
      and justify it or explain how it wasn't really my fault
      or some such nonsense. So in being able to let it go
      or give it up or even serve it up to something higher
      then that is a second shock. The first shock is in keeping
      enough attention to see it in the first place and the second
      shock is in having enough gumption to accept it and let
      it go.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      " What if the year 2000 were a new beginning, an opportunity to turn,
      all together, the culture of war and violence into a culture of peace and
      non-violence?"


      XAN:

      A shared vision with many, I'm sure.
      The question is How? I guarantee it will
      not be by telling people they *should*
      be more peaceful and loving. That sort
      of preaching and nagging approach just
      stays in its own silly loop.

      (and, also from Xan...)

      It is quite possible not to identify emotions
      - not to label them as anger, sadness, positive
      or negative - but to recognize them as energies
      moving through, like weather.
      It is also quite possible not to identify *with*
      emotions, making no value judgements on
      oneself or others just because this energy
      is moving through ........

      What freedom!

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      KRISTI:

      Anyone admitting to pain, or struggling with being not at peace, is in a
      relationship with their own tenderness, the innocence and sweetness of the
      soul...so Judi's attempt to "pierce" the crust, as some have referred to it,
      is perceived as an assault on that tenderness...on that, now jargonistic,
      inner child. We all respond to threats to our children in the same
      way....defensively, "righteously angry," Judi is not different than I was,
      when I resented her responses to me.....(BTW: I have lived for 5 years with
      attacks on my children and their safety...when I came here, broken-hearted,
      and torn apart by my inability to protect them, Judi's response was "drama
      queen." Yet, a very much removed "attack" on her child was valued and
      defended here on the list, and her response was affirmed and validated,
      whereas mine was ridiculed and derided. I took from this that she really had
      no idea what my experience was and therefore was not speaking to me but some
      idea she had of me. My shock from her responses faded to pity for her
      blindness, to disdain for her ignorance, and, ultimately, the recognition
      that I had no more of a clue about her than I felt she had about me.)


      ANDREW:

      I'm not defending Judi's actions. I'm just saying that she is a real
      human being to me, (as you are), with real human vulnerabilities, and a
      real heart. "Jason Robarts" and "Neemyth" on the other hand, are
      puppets, and the person(s) hiding behind them is showing only
      superficial cleverness, self righteous smugness, and a fear of the
      light. Maybe if I got to know them I'd see them differently, but that's
      how I see them now.

      PHIL:

      Andrew, I have to respectfully differ. The source of this is the tendency
      to like one kind of puppetry as against another kind. "Persons" are
      puppets by definition. There are no true persons as against false
      persons.

      Let's cut to the chase. "Vulnerabilities" are not specifically human. A
      bug is vulnerable to being eaten by a bird or stepped on by a human foot.
      Neither is "heart" an exclusively human characteristic. The human is a
      predatory animal at the top of the food chain (for now). If one is
      vulnerable or "has heart" it just means there is consciousness of the
      predicament of all sentient beings, including those not human. It also
      means understanding that one is not special because human, but shares in
      the predicament of all: suffering and mortality.

      Part of the suffering is the donning of masks to communicate. I don't
      know of any participant here that *does not* do that. There is a peculiar
      hard-wiring to replicate the personality from one day to the next. It's
      like the way memes (and virii) work for survival. The mask/personality is
      defense mechanism. Everyone uses it. It's instinctive.

      I do not defend "Robarts" and "Neemyth". That's not the point here.


      KRISTI responds to Andrew:

      Of course, you are right....but I'm ashamed to say Judi on this list has
      become a person hiding behind superficial cleverness, self righteous
      smugness and a fear of gentleness to me....Maybe if I got to know her I
      might see this differently....

      Judi, the person, I do not know and have not been able to get to know
      through her postings here........this is my failure...I am not a refined
      listener.....

      This really isn't about Judi...it's about the process in which all human
      beings engage...by which we evaluate the desireability of a given
      personality and assess the affinity we have for each one; accepting some and
      rejecting others. It is also about the capacity we have for defining "the
      other." The terms by which we decide who is reasonable, what behaviors are
      acceptable, and where we set the line for rejection or condemnation....and
      then group think sets in..and, voila, we have defined a new temporary
      concensus reality that sets, by definition, in juxtaposition to someone
      else's definition.....and even here, among so many enlightened or
      experienced seekers...we do no different......

      I sometimes imagine how consciousness expressed through the interactions of
      a group will evolve over time...what the taste and flavor of this group
      might be in a thousand years......would it be different; how do we imagine
      that change to occur?

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      ANDREW:

      A couple of weeks ago there was a discussion here about dead gurus, and I wrote a
      kind of flippant post saying "Any dead gurus who read this are welcome to visit
      anytime." As I hit the send button I felt a slight sense of forboding. The next day,
      about 5:30 in the afternoon I was walking along not thinking about anything in
      particular, the phrase popped into my head, as if someone was speaking it. I looked
      up, and a large owl (barred owl) was sitting on a branch above me watching me. The day
      after that, at about the same time, I was driving along, about 15 miles from where I
      had been walking the day before, and again, the phrase popped into my head. I looked
      up, and a large owl (it looked the same) crossed in front of me, flying towards the
      west. Both times, the phrase occurred to me before I saw the bird.
      I have no explanations or conclusions or beliefs around this, its just what
      happened. However I do find that apparent reality is increasingly what I make it, I
      mean, what is in my mind tends to show up in the 'external' world.
      The field Rumi talks about :-)

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      MARCIA:

      I don't know about anyone else but for myself to be able
      to actually really feel an emotion is wonderful. If it is anger
      I stuff it cause it isn't nice, if it is joy I began to cling to it
      cause I don't want it to go away, if it is love I question
      wherther I really deserve it. In other words I mind fuck
      emotions as they arise. I bring them back over and over
      again to "me" cause emotions are supposed to connect
      and I don't allow that to happen.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      OLD HAG drops in:

      Hello dears:
      Been away fixing up pile for awhile. Anything interestin' happen while i
      was gone? ,^))

      Someone quoted Rumi, "Out beyond right and wrong, there is a field, I
      will meet you there." (or somethin' like that). Wanted to say, i been to
      that field once, met Kevin Costner there, tossed a few
      balls......dreamin' again, old women do that a lot.

      Cleaning up papers, found this poem darlin' xan sent once. Thought maybe
      worth a repeat.

      Free and Easy:

      A spontaneous song of indestructible wisdom by Gen'dün Rinpoche

      Happiness is not to be found
      through great effort and willpower.
      It is already present in open relaxation and letting go.

      Don't strain.
      There's nothing to do or to undo.
      Whatever momentarily and adventitiously arises in body-mind has no real
      import at all -
      has very little reality at all.

      Why identify with it and become attached to it, passing judgement on it
      and on yourself and others?

      Far better simply
      to just let the entire game happen on its own, springing up and falling
      back again like waves,
      without 'rectifying' or manipulating things, just noticing how
      everything vanishes
      and then magically reappears, again and again and again time without
      end.

      It's only our searching for happiness
      that prevents us from seeing it,
      like a vivid rainbow one runs after but can never catch or a dog chasing
      its own tail.

      Though peace and happiness have no existence as some actual place or
      thing
      they are forever at hand -
      one's constant companion at every instant.

      Just don't be taken in by the apparent reality of good and bad
      experiences.
      They're like today's passing weather
      like rainbows in the sky.

      Wanting to grasp the ungraspable,
      you exhaust yourself in vain,
      but as soon as you open up and relax the tight fist of grasping,
      infinite space is right there - open, inviting, comfortable.

      Use this spaciousness - this freedom and natural ease.

      Don't look anywhere else.
      Don't go off into the tangled jungle
      searching for the elephant of great awakenedness when he is already at
      home,
      quietly resting in front of your own hearth.

      There's nothing to do or to undo
      nothing to force
      nothing you have to want
      nothing missing.

      Emaho - how marvellous!!
      Everything just happens of itself!!"


      ~~Emaho! That's what Kev said as old bones leaped in air and caught high
      pop-up with one glove inbetween rickety legs! He was always joshin' me
      cause i took the game so seriously, i wanted to "wine!" hoho..."win!"
      but he would jes laugh at my shenanigans, and pretty soon i'd forget and
      laugh too, especially when the wolves came and we started all that
      prancin' around. Emaho indeed!....but you ain't interested in an old
      woman's dreams, now anyway. ,^))

      i am touched often by the utter preciousness of all of you,

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      from JEFF:

      Hello,

      I have been lurking for a few months and haven't had the desire to
      pop up till now.

      For me the eloquence of the email from the participants on this list
      that speak from the heart need no embellishment. They are clear,
      succinct and speak to me of the truth.

      Other types of postings are of less interest to me and I don't look at them.

      I have found that when one speaks from the truth this clumsy form of
      written communication called email and even speaking directly with
      words pales with the experience that one is in touch with within
      one's self.

      Om.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


      HENRY:
      >I could ask, What do you all thing about channeling in general?


      SAM:

      An opinion:

      There is only just one... thinker-of-thought*...
      with six billion 'nodes'... through which thought is wrought.

      Channeling... is done by those who won't 'see'...
      Only-thinker*... is abiding... AS... "Me".

      * = whatever name, word or concept 'you' choose.

      ( /\ )

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      PHIL:

      Avoiding what is harmful has nothing to do with non-acceptance or not
      loving. I may "accept" lions and tigers and cobras, but that does not
      mean I have to allow myself to be eaten or bitten. To love implies seeing
      something as it is, and respecting distance if necessary. To love may
      also mean expressing your real emotional state, rather than covering it up
      with sweetness and light.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Terry offers from PAUL REPS:


      *The Gates of Paradise*

      A soldier named Nobushige came to Hakuin, and
      asked: "Is there really a paradise and a hell?"
      "Who are you?" inquired Hakuin.
      "I am a samurai," the warrior replied.
      "You, a soldier!" exclaimed Hakuin. "What
      kind of ruler would have you for his guard? Your
      face looks like that of a beggar."
      Nobushige was so angry that he began to
      draw his sword, but Hakuin continued: "So you
      have a sword! Your weapon is probably much too
      dull to cut off my head."
      As Nobushige drew his sword Hakuin re-
      marked: "Here open the gates of hell!"
      At these words the samurai, perceiving the
      master's discipline, bowed.
      "Here open the gates of paradise," said
      Hakuin.