- Mar 31, 2000______________________________________________________________________________________
neo and xan, belief and beyond:
I believe in peace, joy and love.
~ Well, neo, here is where we differ:
What we are is peace eternal.
We are love with no opposite.
Joy is our inherent nature.
No belief required.
All beliefs abandoned
to this truth.
Marcia and xan, ascension:
I don't think you can overcome physical law.
It is possible to rise above certain laws but
then you come under other laws. Perhaps
it is a matter of using the lower levels laws
in some way as fuel (back to the fuel thing ).
~ Why would one make the assumption that
physical laws cannot be overcome? It does
happen and even has a name for it - a miracle.
I have a different perspective on the fuel thing.
The lower laws have their existence descending
from what is "higher", more subtle, closer to
Source, just as our physical existence is fueled
by Life force.
Isn't it all the same thing? Isn't there really no difference
between the lower and the higher except in vibrational
rate? Doesn't the Life force have it's existence descending
from what is "higher?" Isn't it a matter of increasing
the rate of vibrations for the return journey (ascension)?
Increasing through making use of i.e. not in overcoming?
~ All the same, dancing as varying tunes and rhythms.
Ascending vibrational rate happens automatically as one
ceases holding on to the lower rate of forms and concepts.
Rather than using it, recognizing It is using you, living you,
and always has been.
We're back to letting it all go each moment.
Marcia and xan, enneagram, personality:
~ Yes. The fluidity of seeing my personal programming and traps described
in these types without evasion or denial so that they can be let go.
It is just such a succinct way of describing the mechanics of it.
I can catch myself "in action" sort of behind the screen. It has also really
been helpful for me in not taking other people's manifestations so
personally. I do have to say thought that overlaying it all on the enneagram
seems a little artificial.
~ Yes. My definition of "progress" is
catching myself quicker.
Well, yes, enneagram or any other thought
system is artificial. For instance, that whole
personality thing that we take as real just
because it is so familiar.
Gene and Jerry, a fragment about mystical experience:
If one removes the asbestos suit needed to live in hell, one is
immediately cremated, but this is a rare event. Avoiding is not only
a waste of a perfectly fine hellfire, but also for fear of making an
ash of oneself.
To have a mystical experience of the form of reality with
its matrices laid out in some order, is one thing; it offers
understanding and tremendous perspective and all that. To
release it into the white light at the center of this
display is a totally different thing and leaves one
innocent, a newborn.
Greg and Dan and xan, Nagarjuna's neithers:
>>>Neither one, nor the other, nor both, nor neither.
>>Dan: If neither one nor the other,
>> than not neither, neither?
>Did you mean "than" or "then"?
I meant this...
Nagarjuna's way, which you've used in this discussion,
involves starting with "neither",
eliminating all possible categories, then
ending with "nor neither". So the neither
doesn't apply, neither.
The negation of all possible categories negates itself
when it recognizes itself as a remaining category.
The approach ends all approach, then ends the ending of approach.
The implications, or non-implications, are neither immense nor
We talk about nonduality, but there is neither nonduality, nor
duality, nor something beyond. Nor is there a position for
stating that there isn't something beyond.
This has applications to things like relationships and emotions,
which can no longer be understood as usual. I neither relate nor
don't relate, nor am I beyond relating and not-relating.
I neither feel, nor don't feel, nor am I beyond feelings.
There neither is an I, nor not an I, nor something beyond "I"
One could say it's the ending, not just of philosophy and psychology,
but of the idea that there's something beyond philosophy and
psychology (e.g., a "transpersonal truth," etc.).
It's not here, not now, not there, not then, not yet to become,
nor beyond these categories.
It's not conceptual, nonconceptual, both, nor neither.
So the "highest teaching" is neither teaching nor not-teaching,
nor beyond teaching and not-teaching. Nor neither, either :-)
~ No reference point
Greg sent this:
We convince ourselves that life will be better after
we get married, have a baby, then another. Then we're
frustrated that the kids aren't old enough and we'll
be more content when they are. After that, we're
frustrated that we have teenagers to deal with. We'll
certainly be happy when they're out of that stage.
We tell ourselves that our life will be complete when
our spouse gets his or her act together, when we get a
nicer car, are able to go on a nice vacation, when
The truth is, there's no better time to be happy than
right now. If not now, when?
Your life will always be filled with challenges. It's
best to admit this to yourself and decide to be happy
One of my favorite quotes comes from Alfred D. Souza.
He said, "For a long time it had seemed to me that
life was about to begin - real life. But there
was always some obstacle in the way, something to be
gotten through first, some unfinished business, time
still to be served, or a debt to be paid.
Then life would begin. At last it dawned on me that
these obstacles were my life."
This perspective has helped me to see that there is
no way to happiness.
Happiness is the way. So, treasure every moment that
you have and treasure it more because you shared it
with someone special, special enough to spend your
time with...and remember that time waits for no one.
So, stop waiting until you finish school, until you go
back to school,until you lose ten pounds, until you
gain ten pounds, until you have kids, until your kids
leave the house, until you start work, until you
retire, until you get married, until you get divorced,
until Friday night, until Sunday morning, until you
get a new car or home, until your car or home is
paid off, until spring, until summer, until fall,
until winter, until you're off welfare, until the
first or fifteenth, until your song comes on, until
you've had a drink, until you've sobered up, until you
die, until you're born again to decide that there is
no better time than right now to be happy.
Happiness is a journey, not a destination.
Thought for the day:
Work like you don't need money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no one's watching.
An Angel To Watch over You
Some people come into our lives and quickly go..
Some people become friends and stay a while..
leaving beautiful footprints on our hearts and we are
never quite the same because we have made a good
Yesterday is history.
Tomorrow a mystery.
Today is a gift.
That's why it's called the present!
Mark, enlightenment=losing weight:
Should we equate enlightenment with getting into heaven? I love the story about the
Chinese dude (no names today, huh? who
wrote that song?) who was so very close to enlightened after years of monastic
practice, but not quite there. He decided to go
off into the mountains to find a cave, and as he was climbing up, he met a man coming
down the mountain with a huge collection
of firewood strapped to his back, and noticing that this man was an unusual man, with
a deep presence, he asked him if he
could tell him something useful about enlightenment. The unusual man, being an
incarnation of a Buddha of compassion (man, I
just gotta learn those names if I'm gonna spread these stories...) (hee, hee), dropped
his bundle of sticks. Poof! That was it.
Our lovely Chinese dude suddenly became enlightened (see how easy it is?). But (in
spite of being enlightened?) he still had
questions, and the one that popped to mind was "What next?". The Buddha picked up his
bundle and continued on down the
mountain. What changes? nothing What changes? everything. you know that, because
you've seen it. is it permanent? only
you can answer, and only you care.
If the stuff here is a burden, set it down. (I know that's what you are saying, I'm
just expressing my intent to set it down... it's
true for me that my posts are little experiments in what do I really think, and I
float them out there and some feel right and some
feel wrong and so it goes...) Does setting it down mean that mean all such stuff
disappears in a poof of smoke, or that the
existence of stuff is proof against enlightenment, no... enlightenment means getting
lighter. Judi doesn't take this shit seriously,
YOU do. Judy only cares if you lighten up because she knows how nice it is to be
light. (Judy I'm speaking for you. do you
care? does it help? shall I shut up? am I a child? yes, of course I am...) Why do I
not consider myself enlightened? Because I
am getting ligher and lighter and lighter all the time, and I like it, so I keep it,
so I haven't vanished. fine with me, I like wiggling
my neck and grinning and noticing how it changes me. I think I'll just keep on
changing. No need to stop.
Yummmmmmmmmmmmmm..... How deep does the sigh go? Hasn't hit bottom yet.... I love
being unenlightened! How does
this post feel as I prepare to send it? Mixed.
All my love,
Marcia and Gene and andrew, between moments:
Between one moment and the next...
I wonder if it is between one thought and the next or
one feeling and the next?
I keep wondering if if it is possible to stay away or
if it works like a light bulb. A light bulb is not really
on all the time but is really on/off. Someone else
could explain the mechanics of it better than I.
Ah -so, Glasshopper...
A common _incandescent_ light bulb is actually 'on' all of the time,
by virtue of the filament, which continually glows red/white hot,
thus causing the special gasses inside the bulb to 'incandesce' (thus
the name of that type of bulb!)
On the other hand, other types of bulbs, namely the common
_florescent_ bulb (which has nothing to do with the smell of flowers,
unless it is used as a 'bud light'), actually 'turns off and on' with
each reversal of the 120 Volt AC (alternating current) power. At 60
Hz (60 cycles per second), that is 120 flickers per second, which
just happens to be in a range of frequencies which can adversely
effect the endocrine systems of any nearby Living Being.
You can check this for yourself; next time you are in a
florescent-lighted room, take hold of a pencil by the very tip, and
wave it up and down in front of your eyes. It will 'strobe' as it
moves, due to the force of the photon-interruptus shower.
Good modern fixtures incorporate a 'high-speed ballast', to boost the
operating frequency of such lights much higher. Less irritation from
those lights, as well as lower power usage.
THE COSMIC VERSION:
Similarly (and you just knew this was coming, yes?), the entire
Universe 'turns on and off' at a very high rate of speed. This
(usually imperceptible) activity forms the 'common clock speed' which
allows our individual 'universes' to transparently interoperate on
certain dimensional levels (the levels of sense perception).
It is FUN to re-tune oneself, so as to be aware of the 'blank space'
between the manifestations of the 'solid Universes'. Usually, we
simply 'edit out' the blank spaces, but it is possible to suspend
this activity of editing, and to be able to have access to both the
emptiness AND the fullness, by choice!
One of the Really Cool Aspects of this (learned) ability, is to be
able to halt the process of 'pasting yesterday' onto the newly
manifesting Universe. Most people do this (unconsciously!), in order
to maintain a nice, uniform, predictable manifestation.
Letting go of criteria, is to avoid 'copying' yesterday...
Letting go of resentment, is to avoid 'pasting' yesterday onto today...
It is good to remember that using or maintaining any _strategy_ will
necessitate carrying over to tomorrow, what happened yesterday. If we
truly want a 'better tomorrow' we could learn to let go of today.
That is why it is so, uh, counterproductive to try to 'fix what is
wrong'; the attempt merely stretches events further along a
(self-synthesized) timeline, 'ad infinitum'. By the way, this is
exactly how identity is maintained!
From the Space Between,
Thoughts and feelings are body consciousness, they are discontinuous. The thoughts and
feelings of body consciousness rise and fall in pure consciousness. It makes no
difference to pure consciousness whether body consciousness is present or not, but
there is potential for awakening between thoughts, feelings, moments. The between is
timeless. A reversal
of the individual happens, so that it is not between thoughts or feelings, it is
constant and thoughts and feelings rise in it. This reversal can happen when one looks
into the space between moments.
Michael and Dan, full of it:
You are all full of it!
Peace - and Love Abiding - Michael
There is a tendency to find
reduction to the lowest
We are indeed full of it.
This, however, must be
It is full of us.
I was just sitting here enjoying Annie's enjoyment of my enjoyment of
the list's enjoyment, and I was wobbling my head and grinning like
Stevie Wonder does when he plays music (ever seen that and had to laugh
from sheer pleasure?), and I suddenly understood why he does that.
Because it feels good and he hasn't seen that none of the rest of us
indulge in this amazing pleasure, so he's given himself permission...
Yum. We should be so blind!!!!