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2831#2831 - Saturday, June 2, 2007

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  • Mark Otter
    Jun 3, 2007
      Archived issues of the NDHighlights are available
      online: http://nonduality.com/hlhome.htm

      Nondual Highlights: And now, alive from Tucson, it's
      Issue #2831, Saturday, June 2, 2007!

      A refreshingly honest account of seeking and finding
      and doubts about being realized. Worth rereading if
      already done so. [from amigos site]


      A tale told by an idiot

      Charlie Hayes (68, California) is an openhearted and
      colorful man. After our interview he is reminded of a
      line from Amadeus (the film) in which Mozart says: 'I
      am a vulgar man, but I assure you, my music is not'.
      He states, 'I too have been a vulgar man. But
      hopefully, my sharing is not.'

      When it comes to searching, he knows all the tricks.
      That is: 'I don't care how, if only I'll get to where
      you can't get' (because I was already always there.

      Talking to us about 'nothing' he thinks is great fun.

      Charlie is a Reiki Master/Teacher and a writer, and
      does marketing sponsorship coaching for people who do
      car racing, once his great passion (as a race driver
      he used to be in the world top 10.)


      To quote you, after your introductory lines of
      Awakening To The Eternal (on your website): 'Lies!
      Lies! Truth cannot be languaged. It is hopeless. It is
      an impossible task. Only a fool like me would try'.
      There are quite a few communicators who would, as we
      all know..?

      Yes. They are all like me ... fakes. I've noticed that
      authentic pointing usually includes a disclaimer of
      some sort, to avoid the confusion, which I now include
      for this apparent Charlie: Nothing I say is the truth.

      And 'I' am not an enlightened person. That would be a
      gross contradiction in terms, a true 'Oxymoron.'
      (Emphasis on the Moron part.) I had a marvelous
      conversation on New Years Day with my Beloved Friend
      Tony Parsons. I said: 'First off, I have to tell you,
      I am a fake.' Tony laughed and said, 'Me too!' (Tony
      points constantly to the non-existence of a 'person;'
      reiterating that the so-called person is a phantom, a

      Remember our friend Lao Tsu? 'The Tao that can be told
      is NOT the Eternal Tao.' Of course, he went on to
      apparently 'tell' the Tao for another eighty plus
      verses of beautiful, really sublime, poetic pointing
      toward the Eternal.

      All that is happening here is that there is a
      body-mind called Charlie pecking away on a keyboard
      with two fingers. What sees this going on? There is a
      simple sense, I am, I exist. NOT the thought I am. The
      thought 'I am' is NOT the I that I am. That I is
      impersonal. It is you and the world and everything and
      nothing. And This is all simply... happening, In the
      Space of That I.

      You have been on 'the pathless path' quite a while,
      you spoke to many people, studied the sages. Can you
      tell us about that ('knowing that you are not your

      Ah yes. The story. We love our stories. The story of
      ME. I am the star of my story. And it is SO
      interesting, to me! To anyone else it is Boring. They
      love THEIR story. In which THEY are the stars. Of
      course, there really IS NO One so the whole exercise
      is, as Shakespeare noted, 'A tale told by an idiot,
      filled with sound and fury, signifying ...NOTHING, a
      poor player who struts about on the stage and then is
      heard from no more.

      But OK, here it is anyway:

      I appeared as Charles David Hayes Jr. on 14 December
      1936. I have been a spoiled brat, a jazz musician, and
      a professional racing driver once rated in the top ten
      in the world. I raced for Ferrari in the 1960's and
      later owned a Ferrari agency. I won a number of races,
      which 'Made me feel whole and complete. For about an
      hour.' I had many friends, amongst them movie stars,
      Indy winners and Formula One racers. In 1968 I
      appeared briefly in a major motion picture, 'Winning,'
      with Paul Newman, who drove my then current Can-Am car
      in the film.

      Despite having wealth, fame, marvelous friends, a
      loving family and huge successes, there was always
      something missing. There was a deep fundamental sense
      that 'something is wrong' and 'I am not a good
      person.' And as my life unfolded there was a deep
      feeling that 'I don't belong', and that 'I am on my
      own in a hostile world.' Despite all the successes,
      there was quiet (and sometimes quite LOUD)
      desperation!' When I was not racing I drank and did
      drugs to dull the pain.

      life strikes

      I became intensely interested in spiritual disciplines
      after the devastating loss of most of my possessions,
      my business, my home and even my beloved wife. This
      was accompanied by a complete 'nervous breakdown,' for
      which I was hospitalized for a month in June 1974.
      While I was in the hospital a sort of strange
      awakening occurred (although I did not see it as such,
      I just thought I was crazy.)

      Sitting in a group, another patient began to speak and
      I had the clear and unmistakable experience of being
      not me any more but rather being HIM. Knocked me for a
      loop. It was 'me' speaking through that body-mind
      apparatus over there; I knew what he was about to say
      a split second before the sound was heard. I had
      disappeared and there was nothing, a space, in which
      thinking arose and sound arose _ for no one!

      I later learned that this was what was referred to in
      the East as Jnana or pure knowing without a 'knower',
      or in some Christian mystical literature, the
      'Impersonal Life' at the heart of creation. After that
      moment I saw quite often that what I had thought was
      'me' was actually a machine, running on endlessly,
      producing one furball of thought after another. Its
      favorite thing to think up was this apparent 'me!'

      But not having the least idea of what this might be I
      dismissed it as a Looney Toons Moment and went right
      back to being 'someone, a person, separate and alone',
      a thing with no awareness of the Nothing I had

      My Sweet Lord!

      Then, while still in that mental ward, I found a
      record by George Harrison singing this great 'Love
      Song to God' it sent me straight into ecstasy! My
      Sweet Lord!! That was another kind of awakening. It
      was what I later learned was a taste of the
      unconditional, pure love of God, or Oneness called
      Bhakti in the East, Agape in the West. I listened to
      it over and over.


      At this point some new Energy surged up. I lost
      weight, exercised, and quit smoking, much to the
      amazement of the doctors and staff. They thought I was
      miraculously cured.

      Well, it did seem that way. But I was about to crash
      big time from this 'enlightenment' after leaving the
      cocoon of the hospital. After being discharged, while
      still on heavy medication for depression, I was
      exposed first to the book 'Be Here Now' by Ram Dass,
      and then to the teachings of the Great Sage of India,
      Sri Ramana Maharshi. Ramana's teaching germinated for
      27 years, while I searched through many teachings,
      seminars, gurus, books, tapes, meditations and other
      'spiritual practices.' Gurumayi Chidvilasanda
      initiated the life saving heart surgery I received in
      the year 2000.

      In 2001 I received initiation as a Reiki Master
      Teacher. Becoming a Reiki Master was a breakthrough
      into a healing, freedom and joy that I had sought
      since 1974. But it seemed a piece was still missing.
      Then in 2002 I met the Indian Saint Sri Sri Ravi
      Shankar. We quickly became quite close and, there was
      tremendous Love and profound 'Resonance' between us.
      And lo and behold, Charlie-Ishan became 'enlightened.'
      So he thought.

      WOW! Bliss, at last...

      I was in love with everything and everyone. I saw NO
      lack or limitation and I saw that EVERYTHING was
      perfect, just as it is. There was NOTHING wrong any
      more, for me. ('For me.' Uh Oh!)

      (Right now as this is being typed, there is the
      thought, wow, this is FUN, accompanied by a feeling of
      great joy and enthusiasm. I guess that is as good an
      explanation of why this communication is happening as
      any! If any explanation is wanted by a mind out there
      this will do nicely!)

      OK, Back to the Tale Told By The Idiot: After a few
      weeks the apparent 'Oneness' began to fade of course,
      and I got real worried! I can see now that there was a
      deep and profound EXPERIENCE of oneness... but it was
      for a 'me.' And as we know ALL experience is
      temporary. After a few weeks it was (apparently) gone,
      and that 'me' was left with the same endless despair
      that I knew as my 'default state'. So, it seemed that
      something was STILL 'wrong' with 'me.' A piece was
      still missing. That missing piece turned out to be
      authentic Non-Dual Spirituality, known as 'Advaita.'
      The Non-Dual 'Teachings' point out that, as I
      mentioned before, NO PERSON becomes enlightened! The
      'one' who wants it is GONE when it 'happens.' There
      are no enlightened body-mind machines! Something had
      led me to the Sage Wayne Liquorman, and from 2002
      through 2004 I finally became inalterably convinced
      through the words of Wayne, Ramesh Balsekar,
      Nisargadatta Maharaj and others that this
      enlightenment that 'I' was seeking all those years is
      utterly IMPERSONAL and is NOT something a 'person' can
      'attain.' In a way this was VERY bad news. I realized
      that for thirty years I had been looking under the
      streetlight for a key that was lost by the door, but
      you see, there was no light by the door so I kept
      looking for 'it' where it WASN'T.

      Then I tried a new meditation 'Practice' called the
      Ishayas Ascension. That was quite profound. As I began
      the second day of the three-day Course, suddenly there
      was this very deep realization that The Eternal (also
      called 'The Ascendant') was NOT some THING or 'State'
      to 'Attain.' It was the absolute NATURAL
      always-present Presence that is at the core of
      everything. It is clean, clear and profound in its
      timeless beauty. Seeing this over and over, as an
      experience, rather than a 'dry' concept, was MOST
      welcome! However, that was still an 'experience' for a
      'me' at that stage.

      Finally in late 2004 after a retreat in Sedona with
      Wayne Liquorman I got fed up, frustrated, and
      exhausted. In my despair, I got rude and nasty with my
      friend Wayne, who is not one to suffer ignorant fools
      and who summarily kicked me out of his Satsang. That
      was PERFECT as it turned out because that led me to
      Tony Parsons.

      Listening to Tony there was immediate and deep love.
      It was amazing, palpable. In September 2004 I heard a
      tape of a talk he gave in California that just left me
      in awe. And now the light was seen as definitely NOT
      the train. Tony was pointing toward Home from
      EXPERIENCE, sharing that Experience with me. And the
      message Tony was delivering was.. is _ delightfully,
      utterly devoid of the usual spiritual concepts. Over
      the next few weeks I heard many talks by Tony, which
      resonated deeply. There was a beautiful unfolding of
      that which had been missing. It is a Pure and Simple
      IMPERSONAL Affinity, Friends sharing with Friends,
      rather than some 'Sage' sitting in a big chair looking
      down from his high attainment at some 'miserable
      seekers.' 'There was No 'Enlightened person!' There
      never was, is, or could be. This was the beginning of
      Liberation For No One.

      These insights led 'me' to read books by and/or chat
      with other nice people like Leo Hartong, Nathan Gill,
      Jan Kerschot, John Wheeler, 'Sailor' Bob Adamson, Joan
      Tollifson, Wei Wu Wei and Gilbert Schultz. After an
      intense period of interaction with John Wheeler,
      spiced up by Leo, John Greven (John Wheeler's friend)
      and Gilbert, there came a settling in that awareness
      that is all there is, and there is no me except as an
      appearance of thought in the space of that awareness.
      And an appearance is a ghost, a fake. No more real
      than the shadow of the tree is the tree.

      And in the now there is no person. Just This. Typing
      at a keyboard. Looking out of the window. Noticing
      thought and feeling appearing in the Space that is the
      I am. Drinking Coffee. Watching a crow fly across the
      empty sky. Hearing the hum of the computer and the
      clack of the keys. Noticing the thinking that there is
      someone thinking, seeing through that ... aware of the
      light that lights the mind like the light that shines
      through the prism splitting itself apparently from One
      into Many.

      'I saw the light at the end of the tunnel -and it
      wasn't the train-', you mentioned that a few times.

      I once thought that The Light that was seen was the
      Source teasing me with glimpses of the experience of
      the Self. Later I came to see (a seeing
      occurred/occurs) that that too is nonsense. The
      experience is NOT the Real. Not The Eternal. The
      Eternal is absolutely nothing! No Thing. Neti Neti as
      the Hindus say. Total negation. Not Not Not! And this
      cannot be known or understood.

      As I said only a fool would try to speak the
      unspeakable. 'The Tao that can be told is NOT the
      Eternal Tao.' The moment we think or speak there is
      something thinking or speaking ABOUT That which can
      NOT be represented in language. That can NOT be RE-
      presented. IT is always present, shining right now as
      the light of Awareness, a Naked Presence, BEFORE the
      mind. A Priori.

      Gilbert Schultz points to it simply as 'One moment
      endlessly unfolding.' 'Sailor' Bob uses the concept
      'Presence-Awareness, just this, nothing else. Full
      stop.' All point endlessly to That which cannot be
      pointed to. Because That does not exist AS AN OBJECT!
      One-Without-A-Second means NO separation, doesn't it?

      'What kept you going on exploring, was there an innate
      confidence somehow?'

      More like an innate desperation. But truly, this is
      not anything the seeker can control, nothing that
      happens can be controlled by any appearing 'me. This
      'Awakening' stuff is a bit like having a spin-out at
      180 MPH in a race car. After the ride is over people
      say, 'Wow, you did a great job controlling the car!'
      Nope, 'I' was just along for the ride.

      The shadow does not control that which casts the
      shadow. The shadow appears real but in fact without
      the Source, the shadow cannot exist at all. And even
      further out, without the Light that shines as the
      Source of the Source there could be no shadow.

      What kept 'me' exploring was that there was no one
      choosing. If there had been a 'me' to choose that me
      would have stopped the seeking long ago! Seeking is
      misery for the apparent seeker. Finding never happens,
      it Never has for any 'one' and never will. It is a
      hopeless case, chasing one's tail. Do you know the
      play 'Waiting for Godot?' I don't know the whole text,
      but I was struck by the premise, as I understand it:
      'Waiting for Godot. It is horrible. He NEVER comes.
      All there is is waiting.'

      The whole idea of a 'me' seeking that can choose to
      seek or not, to keep going or not, is straight out of
      the ignorance of the split mind. As Wei Wu Wei points
      out so elegantly, the whole problem is that we have
      our attention on 'me' and there ISN'T one! You see
      there is no one. It is not, there is no choice. There
      is no chooser. Choosing appears and happens as a part
      of a story of 'me.' But there is no such person as
      'me.' Just a body-mind typing away this morning ...
      this apparent entity I call myself is but an idea in
      the split mind that thinks itself to be real and
      believes itself to exist separately from all else that

      So who can choose to continue exploring if there is no

      We have a theme in this Amigo issue that is 'no
      regrets'. Please comment.

      I regret that I have no comment: --- Just kidding!

      Regrets can arise. The difference is, that regret,
      like happiness or any other emotion or thought, is
      simply seen as a natural expression of Oneness arising
      in the Space of that which we are ... the Eternal. I
      had a conversation last night with someone that ended
      'badly.' She was being stubbornly right about all that
      she 'knew' about everything. Finally I ran out of
      patience and said, you, my dear, are being both
      arrogant and ignorant.' You can imagine how well THAT
      went over! Mind you, in order to see that I had to
      recognize that IN the 'me' that thinks it is a person.
      So it was seen that, yes, that 'me' that thinks it is
      who I am IS arrogant and ignorant! That is what's so
      in the play.

      But it is also, so what? So this morning there is
      regret. I would prefer that there be affinity in all
      my relationships. But there is no GUILT. Guilt can
      only arise for a 'me' that thinks 'it' did 'something
      wrong.' Nothing is right or wrong unless there is a
      thinker thinking that there is something wrong or
      right. And if you and I look for that 'Thinker' we
      find beyond doubt that 'It' does not exist. As
      'Sailor' Bob says: 'What's wrong with right now,
      unless you think about it?' So regret can arise. As
      can fear, anger, joy, peace, depression, happiness,
      all of the spectrum. But it simply arises in the
      space, the pure naked awareness, and then dissolves
      back into that. And when this is seen by no one, it is
      seen that the seeing, the seen and the apparent
      process of seeing are NOT separate.

      All there is is Consciousness. No thing. Happening.

      Charlie's website: www.AwakeningToTheEternal.Net


      PS Days after the ending of out email conversation we
      received another e-mail from Charlie wherein he
      communicates in all honesty:

      [...] There is sometimes still a deep, abiding sadness
      near the core of 'me' and a sense that I am not 'done'
      ... though I sometimes try to claim that I am. So the
      unfolding into Light goes ... and the inquiry into
      who, and what, that 'me' is, continues.

      I have been deeply touched by a great many people who
      have shared their experiences of 'awakening' on the
      spiritual path on the Internet. And so I am moved to
      share my process.[...]

      - posted to AdvaitaToZen


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