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Prototype speed of "Plymouth FL" #10

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  • flobarchetti
    As already mentioned in previous posts, I am currently building up a Grandt Line Kit for #10, powered by a homebuilt drive unit. After some track testing, I
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 6, 2013
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      As already mentioned in previous posts, I am currently building up a Grandt Line Kit for #10, powered by a homebuilt drive unit. After some track testing, I was not really happy with the performance of the motor, parts of the gear train and hair-raising top speed.
      Therefore a redesign will be necessary for the use of a swiss-made maxon motor/gear head.
      To select the best matching components, it would be great if someone could provide information what roughly the top speed of a
      full-size "Plymouth FL" is.

      Thank you very much

      Florian
    • William Barber
      Florian, While I don t know for sure, I would think that a top speed of about 20 mph would be the limit, although there was a model CR-8, built in 1963 that
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 6, 2013
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        Florian,

        While I don't know for sure, I would think that a top speed of about 20 mph would be the limit, although there was a model CR-8, built in 1963 that could do 50 mph! It had two GM 2-71 diesel engines.  I doubt anything on the NCNG ever went over 30 mph. That would be fast for most US narrow gauge RRs. D&RGW was know to operate up to 40 mph in a few locations. 

        Bill Barber
        Gravois Mills, MO

        On Feb 6, 2013, at 6:16 AM, flobarchetti wrote:

         

        As already mentioned in previous posts, I am currently building up a Grandt Line Kit for #10, powered by a homebuilt drive unit. After some track testing, I was not really happy with the performance of the motor, parts of the gear train and hair-raising top speed.
        Therefore a redesign will be necessary for the use of a swiss-made maxon motor/gear head.
        To select the best matching components, it would be great if someone could provide information what roughly the top speed of a
        full-size "Plymouth FL" is.

        Thank you very much

        Florian


      • RANDALL HEES
        The 1922 Plymouth DL at Ardenwood will go about 12 mph... and its quite a ride when running that quickly... Randy Hees On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 12:16:11 -0000
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 6, 2013
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          The 1922 Plymouth DL at Ardenwood will go about 12 mph...
          and its quite a ride when running that quickly...

          Randy Hees

          On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 12:16:11 -0000
          "flobarchetti" <flobarchetti@...> wrote:
          > As already mentioned in previous posts, I am currently
          >building up a Grandt Line Kit for #10, powered by a
          >homebuilt drive unit. After some track testing, I was not
          >really happy with the performance of the motor, parts of
          >the gear train and hair-raising top speed.
          > Therefore a redesign will be necessary for the use of a
          >swiss-made maxon motor/gear head.
          > To select the best matching components, it would be
          >great if someone could provide information what roughly
          >the top speed of a
          > full-size "Plymouth FL" is.
          >
          > Thank you very much
          >
          >Florian
          >
        • Lauren Williams
          Hi All, I m not sure about the Plymouth but our 25 ton GE is placarded for a top speed of twenty miles per hour. The reason for this low speed is that the
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 6, 2013
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            Hi All,

            I'm not sure about the Plymouth but our 25 ton GE is placarded for a top speed of twenty miles per hour.

            The reason for this low speed is that the locomotive has a very high center of gravity and a 6 foot 6 inch two axle wheel base.  When coupled with a 15,000 lb. draw-bar pull, any resonance in the train or track would walk this thing off the track. Wheel stands are not out of the question.

            I've managed to derail it twice. Harumph!

            Lauren Williams


            --- On Wed, 2/6/13, flobarchetti <flobarchetti@...> wrote:

            From: flobarchetti <flobarchetti@...>
            Subject: <NevadaCoNG> Prototype speed of "Plymouth FL" #10
            To: NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, February 6, 2013, 4:16 AM

             

            As already mentioned in previous posts, I am currently building up a Grandt Line Kit for #10, powered by a homebuilt drive unit. After some track testing, I was not really happy with the performance of the motor, parts of the gear train and hair-raising top speed.
            Therefore a redesign will be necessary for the use of a swiss-made maxon motor/gear head.
            To select the best matching components, it would be great if someone could provide information what roughly the top speed of a
            full-size "Plymouth FL" is.

            Thank you very much

            Florian

          • flobarchetti
            Thank you guys for the info concerning top speed of locos like a Plymouth FL . I can imagine that speeds of 12mph are already quite frightening on a loco
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 7, 2013
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              Thank you guys for the info concerning "top speed" of locos like a "Plymouth FL".

              I can imagine that speeds of 12mph are already quite frightening on a loco with hardly any spring suspension, very short wheelbase and on rough track.

              Maxon motors offers a motor/gearhead combo that fits my model and gives it a V/max of 10 scalemiles/hour.
              What I am really curios about is, what the lowest steady speed will be.

              Florian








              --- In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, "RANDALL HEES" wrote:
              >
              > The 1922 Plymouth DL at Ardenwood will go about 12 mph...
              > and its quite a ride when running that quickly...
              >
              > Randy Hees
              >
              > On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 12:16:11 -0000
              > "flobarchetti" wrote:
              > > As already mentioned in previous posts, I am currently
              > >building up a Grandt Line Kit for #10, powered by a
              > >homebuilt drive unit. After some track testing, I was not
              > >really happy with the performance of the motor, parts of
              > >the gear train and hair-raising top speed.
              > > Therefore a redesign will be necessary for the use of a
              > >swiss-made maxon motor/gear head.
              > > To select the best matching components, it would be
              > >great if someone could provide information what roughly
              > >the top speed of a
              > > full-size "Plymouth FL" is.
              > >
              > > Thank you very much
              > >
              > >Florian
              > >
              >
            • dave_grandt
              My Plymouth catalog gives a speed of 10mph for models with 20 dia wheels ... .
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 7, 2013
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                My Plymouth catalog gives a speed of 10mph for models with 20" dia wheels

                --- In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, "flobarchetti" wrote:
                ".
                >
                > I can imagine that speeds of 12mph are already quite frightening on a loco with hardly any spring suspension, very short wheelbase and on rough track.
                >
                > Maxon motors offers a motor/gearhead combo that fits my model and gives it a V/max of 10 scalemiles/hour.
                > What I am really curios about is, what the lowest steady speed will be.
                >
                > Florian
                >
                >
                >
              • Doug MacLeod
                According to the Whitcomb catatlong for an engine as the same as NCNG # 5, in 4th gear the top speed was 11.9 mph. 8 mph in 3rd gear, 4.2 mph in second
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 7, 2013
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                  According to the Whitcomb catatlong for an engine as the same as NCNG # 5, in 4th gear the top speed was 11.9 mph. 8 mph in 3rd gear, 4.2 mph in second gear.and 3.4 mph in 1st gear.  For short hard pulls speeds could be increase by 20%.
                  Doug MacLeod, Roseville, CA
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 4:26 AM
                  Subject: <NevadaCoNG> Re: Prototype speed of "Plymouth FL" #10

                   

                  Thank you guys for the info concerning "top speed" of locos like a "Plymouth FL".

                  I can imagine that speeds of 12mph are already quite frightening on a loco with hardly any spring suspension, very short wheelbase and on rough track.

                  Maxon motors offers a motor/gearhead combo that fits my model and gives it a V/max of 10 scalemiles/hour.
                  What I am really curios about is, what the lowest steady speed will be.

                  Florian

                  --- In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, "RANDALL HEES" wrote:
                  >
                  > The 1922 Plymouth DL at Ardenwood will go about 12 mph...
                  > and its quite a ride when running that quickly...
                  >
                  > Randy Hees
                  >
                  > On Wed, 06 Feb 2013 12:16:11 -0000
                  > "flobarchetti" wrote:
                  > > As already mentioned in previous posts, I am currently
                  > >building up a Grandt Line Kit for #10, powered by a
                  > >homebuilt drive unit. After some track testing, I was not
                  > >really happy with the performance of the motor, parts of
                  > >the gear train and hair-raising top speed.
                  > > Therefore a redesign will be necessary for the use of a
                  > >swiss-made maxon motor/gear head.
                  > > To select the best matching components, it would be
                  > >great if someone could provide information what roughly
                  > >the top speed of a
                  > > full-size "Plymouth FL" is.
                  > >
                  > > Thank you very much
                  > >
                  > >Florian
                  > >
                  >

                • Andrew Brandon
                  The NCNG actually encountered a fair number of issues with their gas-mechanicals early on. These problems stemmed from the desire to use them as replacements
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 7, 2013
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                    The NCNG actually encountered a fair number of issues with their gas-mechanicals early on. These problems stemmed from the desire to use them as replacements for steam locomotives on local (GV>NC) traffic. Starting in the late 20s, they attempted to use several different models for this purpose. Among these were what became Madera Sugar Pine #7 (NCNG 1st #7) and Pacific Coast Ry #120 (NCNG was the reason for the small pilot and trailing axles being added in an attempt to track better at higher speeds.). 

                    Andrew

                    -=Andrew Brandon=-
                    http://www.pacificng.com


                    On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:30 AM, dave_grandt <davegrandt@...> wrote:
                     

                    My Plymouth catalog gives a speed of 10mph for models with 20" dia wheels



                    --- In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, "flobarchetti" wrote:
                    ".
                    >
                    > I can imagine that speeds of 12mph are already quite frightening on a loco with hardly any spring suspension, very short wheelbase and on rough track.
                    >
                    > Maxon motors offers a motor/gearhead combo that fits my model and gives it a V/max of 10 scalemiles/hour.
                    > What I am really curios about is, what the lowest steady speed will be.
                    >
                    > Florian
                    >
                    >
                    >


                  • RANDALL HEES
                    One significant issue was the frame height. On a Plymouth CL or FL the frame sits lower, and the coupler of a narrow gauge car will miss the frame in a
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 7, 2013
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                      One significant issue was the frame height. On a Plymouth
                      CL or FL the frame sits lower, and the coupler of a narrow
                      gauge car will miss the frame in a collision, and strike
                      the radiator or body. On a DL or larger locomotive, the
                      coupler will strike the frame.

                      Randy Hees
                      www.spcrr.org
                      www.pacificng.com
                      www.rypn.org




                      On Thu, 7 Feb 2013 11:32:58 -0800
                      Andrew Brandon <andrew.brandon@...> wrote:
                      > The NCNG actually encountered a fair number of issues
                      >with their
                      > gas-mechanicals early on. These problems stemmed from
                      >the desire to use
                      > them as replacements for steam locomotives on local
                      >(GV>NC) traffic.
                      > Starting in the late 20s, they attempted to use several
                      >different models
                      > for this purpose. Among these were what became Madera
                      >Sugar Pine #7 (NCNG
                      > 1st #7) and Pacific Coast Ry #120 (NCNG was the reason
                      >for the small pilot
                      > and trailing axles being added in an attempt to track
                      >better at higher
                      > speeds.).
                      >
                      > Andrew
                      >
                      > -=Andrew Brandon=-
                      > http://www.pacificng.com
                      >
                      >
                      > On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:30 AM, dave_grandt
                      ><davegrandt@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> **
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> My Plymouth catalog gives a speed of 10mph for models
                      >>with 20" dia wheels
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> --- In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, "flobarchetti" wrote:
                      >> ".
                      >> >
                      >> > I can imagine that speeds of 12mph are already quite
                      >>frightening on a
                      >> loco with hardly any spring suspension, very short
                      >>wheelbase and on rough
                      >> track.
                      >> >
                      >> > Maxon motors offers a motor/gearhead combo that fits
                      >>my model and gives
                      >> it a V/max of 10 scalemiles/hour.
                      >> > What I am really curios about is, what the lowest
                      >>steady speed will be.
                      >> >
                      >> > Florian
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                    • Florian Barchetti
                      That must have been fun for the engineer, having the coupler coming into the cab when hitting the brakes too late.   Florian ________________________________
                      Message 10 of 10 , Feb 9, 2013
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                        That must have been fun for the engineer, having the coupler coming into the cab when hitting the brakes too late.  
                        Florian
                        Von: RANDALL HEES <hees@...>
                        An: NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com
                        Gesendet: 21:13 Donnerstag, 7.Februar 2013
                        Betreff: Re: <NevadaCoNG> Re: Prototype speed of "Plymouth FL" #10

                        One significant issue was the frame height.  On a Plymouth
                        CL or FL the frame sits lower, and the coupler of a narrow
                        gauge car will miss the frame in a collision, and strike
                        the radiator or body.  On a DL or larger locomotive, the
                        coupler will strike the frame.

                        Randy Hees
                        www.spcrr.org
                        www.pacificng.com
                        www.rypn.org




                        On Thu, 7 Feb 2013 11:32:58 -0800
                          Andrew Brandon <andrew.brandon@...> wrote:
                        > The NCNG actually encountered a fair number of issues
                        >with their
                        > gas-mechanicals early on. These problems stemmed from
                        >the desire to use
                        > them as replacements for steam locomotives on local
                        >(GV>NC) traffic.
                        >
                        Starting in the late 20s, they attempted to use several
                        >different models
                        > for this purpose. Among these were what became Madera
                        >Sugar Pine #7 (NCNG
                        > 1st #7) and Pacific Coast Ry #120 (NCNG was the reason
                        >for the small pilot
                        > and trailing axles being added in an attempt to track
                        >better at higher
                        > speeds.).
                        >
                        > Andrew
                        >
                        > -=Andrew Brandon=-
                        > http://www.pacificng.com/
                        >
                        >
                        > On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:30 AM, dave_grandt
                        ><davegrandt@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >> **
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> My Plymouth catalog gives a speed of 10mph for models
                        >>with 20" dia wheels
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> --- In
                        ymailto="mailto:NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com">NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, "flobarchetti" wrote:
                        >> ".
                        >> >
                        >> > I can imagine that speeds of 12mph are already quite
                        >>frightening on a
                        >> loco with hardly any spring suspension, very short
                        >>wheelbase and on rough
                        >> track.
                        >> >
                        >> > Maxon motors offers a motor/gearhead combo that fits
                        >>my model and gives
                        >> it a V/max of 10 scalemiles/hour.
                        >> > What I am really curios about is, what the lowest
                        >>steady speed will be.
                        >> >
                        >> > Florian
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> 
                        >>



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