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RE: An Introduction, and a Question

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  • Loren Miller
    Yes I worked underground for 2 companies. I was hired as a welder, but in this business in this area for small companies, everybody learns everything. I
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 16, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Yes I worked underground for 2 companies. I was hired as a welder, but in this business in this area for small companies, everybody learns everything. I learned a bit about the geology, drilling blasting and what to do with the aftermath. The Original 16 to One mine in Allegheny, Ca, which is to date the oldest continuously working gold mine in the U.S. was what we call a pocket mine. This is because the gold occurred in pockets. We would mine tons of beautiful white quartz and find nothing in it. This as well as whatever rock we blew up was called waste rock, and would be either backfilled into the stopes we mined out, or removed to the surface and screened, and then sold as road rock. When the quartz is exposed to the air, it turns brown. Since the gold only occurs in the quartz, it only makes sense to mine that. Mining is expensive and we would only want to mine what potentially has gold in it, however, sometimes we would have to drift through bedrock, which in our case was basalt to get to suspected quartz veins. In the case of the Empire Mine in Grass Valley, a couple of years ago, men from our crew tunneled a drift some 800 feet to the main shaft so tourists could walk a level path into the deeper part of the main winze. (A winze is a shaft that is not vertical, a drift is a tunnel that is horizontal.) That project was all waste rock, and a lot of dirt. In any case, most mines around here were similar in that the tailings that were suspected to have no potential for gold would be tossed over the easiest hill from the portal as the least amount of money would be spent on it's disposal. If you look around you can find mine portals and estimate the size based upon the mountain of tailings that cascade down from the portal. Most of these will be that dark gray color, which you will find also to be the color of the ballast. Quartz does not usually have the structural integrity to be ballast because it crumbles easy. Basalt is very tough stuff and consumes drill bits, and much explosives to break it, as well, it holds up to the rigors of supporting railroad ties, doesn't break easily under the weight of heavy rolling stock and stays put due to it's sharp edges. It is likely to be the ballast of choice for any railroad in this area because it is already broken, crushed, and FREE. The closest mine to the railroad with a huge pile of tailings would be a welcome resource to the railroad company. The mine of course would love to have the problem of getting rid of the tailings handled so this would have been a marriage "set in stone" Excuse the pun. Anyway, if you have the google earth program, you can search the area and find much of what you are looking for. Also, you will probably find similar rock used for ballast at any California rail roadbed. Try the SP lines in your area. On another note, for history's sake, and the history of the SP, my great grandfather used to engineer the cab forward ACs from Colfax to Reno. We have the last one of them in the California Railroad Museum in Sacramento when you are in the area. Quite an impressive museum. http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=668 Also, look up the 16 to one mine, as they have by far, the best underground gold mine tour in the U.S. http://www.origsix.com/ and then there is this site if you haven't seen it yet: http://www.ncngrrmuseum.org/index.html?0.2172240024588714
      To: NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com
      From: dennisivison@...
      Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:01:17 +0000
      Subject: Re: <NevadaCoNG> An Introduction, and a Question




















      Loren,



      Thank you for the input. Did you work underground? I've been a

      firefighter for 23 years and have been in some very dark, tight

      places, but when I looked down that mine shaft and thought of being a

      mile underground I have to admit that it made my legs wobble!



      I looked around for some tailings at some of the mine sites that we

      visited and couldn't tell if any of the rocks were tailings. We saw

      all of the colors that you mentioned, as well as some very dark brown

      quartz. I took some pictures of each, you know just in case. I

      thought of taking some samples, but don't like to "borrow" from

      historical sites. We have a hard enough time preserving what little

      history we have left already. When I modeled the Espee in Arizona a

      large part of the layout was devoted to copper mining & smelting. I

      have a retired friend (we were partners for 10+ years) that lives

      down there, and one time after a phone conversation, I had a package

      show-up via USPS. It was about 10 lbs of copper mine tailings; he had

      sifted it down to fine grains and everything! The note told me where

      he got them, and I suspect that they were probably a mix of tailings

      and slag...great stuff, I hope he didn't use his wife's flour sifter.

      For awhile I was reluctant to use them, or even touch them! I still

      have a bunch of that stuff left. I'm not suggesting that anyone send

      me another bag of dirt, just knowing the color would be great. If all

      else fails I'll go with the basalt, it makes the most sense. But, you

      all know what'll happen�..as soon as the last section of ballast

      dries someone will post a picture�and I'll have guessed wrong.



      Thanks again,

      Dennis



      In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, Loren Miller <rioting@...> wrote:

      >

      >

      > Interesting. I live here and have actually worked in the gold mines

      of the area. Most of the hard rock mines are a quartz vein in basalt

      and/or serpentine. The basalt is dark gray, the serpentine a mottled

      green but has no structural integrity. I have not seen the actual

      ballast from the ncngrr, nor the tailings from the mine you

      mentioned. Perhaps somebody can tell you better, but I have seen

      nothing but gray to dark gray ballast on any tracks here in Northern

      California, and the basalt is quite hard, has sharp edges and stays

      put as it locks into place. It is also used on many dirt roads here

      for the same reasons ans in the quarry industry that sells it for

      that purpose, it is called "mine rock" for obvious reasons. I hope

      that helps some. Other people here may have better info and more

      accurate having done much closer research to the actual ncngrr

      tracks, pictures, etc.






















      _________________________________________________________________
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    • Andrew Brandon
      The NCNG used the cheapest material they could as ballast, river rock. If you look closely in NCNG photos you ll notice that the ballast seems to be very
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 16, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        The NCNG used the cheapest material they could as ballast, river rock.
        If you look closely in NCNG photos you'll notice that the ballast
        seems to be very "white" in later years. Since the NCNG ran the
        standard gauge gravel spur they had a cheap source of ballast,
        uncomfortable to walk on, a pain in neck to work with but excellent
        for drainage.

        You can see an example of this ballast here:
        http://www.ncngrrmuseum.org/pb/images/img18676447aa39e8140b.jpg
        It is not the greatest picture but it will give you some idea, you're
        looking for a mostly quartz ballast with some limestone in there.
        Keep in mind that along the NCNG some areas were still "lightly"
        ballasted I believe the photo of the You Bet station from Best's book
        shows this. If I get a chance I'll scan a few shots of the R.O.W. that
        show the ballasting and upload them to the group.

        -=Andrew=-


        On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 12:13 AM, Loren Miller <rioting@...> wrote:
        >
        > Yes I worked underground for 2 companies. I was hired as a welder, but in this business in this area for small companies, everybody learns everything. I learned a bit about the geology, drilling blasting and what to do with the aftermath. The Original 16 to One mine in Allegheny, Ca, which is to date the oldest continuously working gold mine in the U.S. was what we call a pocket mine. This is because the gold occurred in pockets. We would mine tons of beautiful white quartz and find nothing in it. This as well as whatever rock we blew up was called waste rock, and would be either backfilled into the stopes we mined out, or removed to the surface and screened, and then sold as road rock. When the quartz is exposed to the air, it turns brown. Since the gold only occurs in the quartz, it only makes sense to mine that. Mining is expensive and we would only want to mine what potentially has gold in it, however, sometimes we would have to drift through bedrock, which in our case was basalt to get to suspected quartz veins. In the case of the Empire Mine in Grass Valley, a couple of years ago, men from our crew tunneled a drift some 800 feet to the main shaft so tourists could walk a level path into the deeper part of the main winze. (A winze is a shaft that is not vertical, a drift is a tunnel that is horizontal.) That project was all waste rock, and a lot of dirt. In any case, most mines around here were similar in that the tailings that were suspected to have no potential for gold would be tossed over the easiest hill from the portal as the least amount of money would be spent on it's disposal. If you look around you can find mine portals and estimate the size based upon the mountain of tailings that cascade down from the portal. Most of these will be that dark gray color, which you will find also to be the color of the ballast. Quartz does not usually have the structural integrity to be ballast because it crumbles easy. Basalt is very tough stuff and consumes drill bits, and much explosives to break it, as well, it holds up to the rigors of supporting railroad ties, doesn't break easily under the weight of heavy rolling stock and stays put due to it's sharp edges. It is likely to be the ballast of choice for any railroad in this area because it is already broken, crushed, and FREE. The closest mine to the railroad with a huge pile of tailings would be a welcome resource to the railroad company. The mine of course would love to have the problem of getting rid of the tailings handled so this would have been a marriage "set in stone" Excuse the pun. Anyway, if you have the google earth program, you can search the area and find much of what you are looking for. Also, you will probably find similar rock used for ballast at any California rail roadbed. Try the SP lines in your area. On another note, for history's sake, and the history of the SP, my great grandfather used to engineer the cab forward ACs from Colfax to Reno. We have the last one of them in the California Railroad Museum in Sacramento when you are in the area. Quite an impressive museum. http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=668 Also, look up the 16 to one mine, as they have by far, the best underground gold mine tour in the U.S. http://www.origsix.com/ and then there is this site if you haven't seen it yet: http://www.ncngrrmuseum.org/index.html?0.2172240024588714
        >
        > To: NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com
        > From: dennisivison@...
        > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:01:17 +0000
        > Subject: Re: <NevadaCoNG> An Introduction, and a Question
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Loren,
        >
        >
        >
        > Thank you for the input. Did you work underground? I've been a
        >
        > firefighter for 23 years and have been in some very dark, tight
        >
        > places, but when I looked down that mine shaft and thought of being a
        >
        > mile underground I have to admit that it made my legs wobble!
        >
        >
        >
        > I looked around for some tailings at some of the mine sites that we
        >
        > visited and couldn't tell if any of the rocks were tailings. We saw
        >
        > all of the colors that you mentioned, as well as some very dark brown
        >
        > quartz. I took some pictures of each, you know just in case. I
        >
        > thought of taking some samples, but don't like to "borrow" from
        >
        > historical sites. We have a hard enough time preserving what little
        >
        > history we have left already. When I modeled the Espee in Arizona a
        >
        > large part of the layout was devoted to copper mining & smelting. I
        >
        > have a retired friend (we were partners for 10+ years) that lives
        >
        > down there, and one time after a phone conversation, I had a package
        >
        > show-up via USPS. It was about 10 lbs of copper mine tailings; he had
        >
        > sifted it down to fine grains and everything! The note told me where
        >
        > he got them, and I suspect that they were probably a mix of tailings
        >
        > and slag...great stuff, I hope he didn't use his wife's flour sifter.
        >
        > For awhile I was reluctant to use them, or even touch them! I still
        >
        > have a bunch of that stuff left. I'm not suggesting that anyone send
        >
        > me another bag of dirt, just knowing the color would be great. If all
        >
        > else fails I'll go with the basalt, it makes the most sense. But, you
        >
        > all know what'll happen…..as soon as the last section of ballast
        >
        > dries someone will post a picture…and I'll have guessed wrong.
        >
        >
        >
        > Thanks again,
        >
        > Dennis
        >
        >
        >
        > In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, Loren Miller <rioting@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Interesting. I live here and have actually worked in the gold mines
        >
        > of the area. Most of the hard rock mines are a quartz vein in basalt
        >
        > and/or serpentine. The basalt is dark gray, the serpentine a mottled
        >
        > green but has no structural integrity. I have not seen the actual
        >
        > ballast from the ncngrr, nor the tailings from the mine you
        >
        > mentioned. Perhaps somebody can tell you better, but I have seen
        >
        > nothing but gray to dark gray ballast on any tracks here in Northern
        >
        > California, and the basalt is quite hard, has sharp edges and stays
        >
        > put as it locks into place. It is also used on many dirt roads here
        >
        > for the same reasons ans in the quarry industry that sells it for
        >
        > that purpose, it is called "mine rock" for obvious reasons. I hope
        >
        > that helps some. Other people here may have better info and more
        >
        > accurate having done much closer research to the actual ncngrr
        >
        > tracks, pictures, etc.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _________________________________________________________________
        > More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger.
        > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Have you visited or contributed to the FILES or LINKS section yet? Check them out!Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >



        --
        -=Andrew Brandon=-
      • Loren Miller
        AhHA! I knew somebody would be more of an authority on this with actual photos and existing right of way, as well as actual historical content. Thanks for
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 16, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          AhHA! I knew somebody would be more of an authority on this with actual photos and existing right of way, as well as actual historical content. Thanks for clearing that up for all of us.

          > To: NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com
          > From: andrew.brandon@...
          > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:10:14 -0700
          > Subject: Re: <NevadaCoNG> An Introduction, and a Question
          >
          > The NCNG used the cheapest material they could as ballast, river rock.
          > If you look closely in NCNG photos you'll notice that the ballast
          > seems to be very "white" in later years. Since the NCNG ran the
          > standard gauge gravel spur they had a cheap source of ballast,
          > uncomfortable to walk on, a pain in neck to work with but excellent
          > for drainage.
          >
          > You can see an example of this ballast here:
          > http://www.ncngrrmuseum.org/pb/images/img18676447aa39e8140b.jpg
          > It is not the greatest picture but it will give you some idea, you're
          > looking for a mostly quartz ballast with some limestone in there.
          > Keep in mind that along the NCNG some areas were still "lightly"
          > ballasted I believe the photo of the You Bet station from Best's book
          > shows this. If I get a chance I'll scan a few shots of the R.O.W. that
          > show the ballasting and upload them to the group.
          >
          > -=Andrew=-
          >
          >
          > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 12:13 AM, Loren Miller <rioting@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Yes I worked underground for 2 companies. I was hired as a welder, but in this business in this area for small companies, everybody learns everything. I learned a bit about the geology, drilling blasting and what to do with the aftermath. The Original 16 to One mine in Allegheny, Ca, which is to date the oldest continuously working gold mine in the U.S. was what we call a pocket mine. This is because the gold occurred in pockets. We would mine tons of beautiful white quartz and find nothing in it. This as well as whatever rock we blew up was called waste rock, and would be either backfilled into the stopes we mined out, or removed to the surface and screened, and then sold as road rock. When the quartz is exposed to the air, it turns brown. Since the gold only occurs in the quartz, it only makes sense to mine that. Mining is expensive and we would only want to mine what potentially has gold in it, however, sometimes we would have to drift through bedrock, which in our case was basalt to get to suspected quartz veins. In the case of the Empire Mine in Grass Valley, a couple of years ago, men from our crew tunneled a drift some 800 feet to the main shaft so tourists could walk a level path into the deeper part of the main winze. (A winze is a shaft that is not vertical, a drift is a tunnel that is horizontal.) That project was all waste rock, and a lot of dirt. In any case, most mines around here were similar in that the tailings that were suspected to have no potential for gold would be tossed over the easiest hill from the portal as the least amount of money would be spent on it's disposal. If you look around you can find mine portals and estimate the size based upon the mountain of tailings that cascade down from the portal. Most of these will be that dark gray color, which you will find also to be the color of the ballast. Quartz does not usually have the structural integrity to be ballast because it crumbles easy. Basalt is very tough stuff and consumes drill bits, and much explosives to break it, as well, it holds up to the rigors of supporting railroad ties, doesn't break easily under the weight of heavy rolling stock and stays put due to it's sharp edges. It is likely to be the ballast of choice for any railroad in this area because it is already broken, crushed, and FREE. The closest mine to the railroad with a huge pile of tailings would be a welcome resource to the railroad company. The mine of course would love to have the problem of getting rid of the tailings handled so this would have been a marriage "set in stone" Excuse the pun. Anyway, if you have the google earth program, you can search the area and find much of what you are looking for. Also, you will probably find similar rock used for ballast at any California rail roadbed. Try the SP lines in your area. On another note, for history's sake, and the history of the SP, my great grandfather used to engineer the cab forward ACs from Colfax to Reno. We have the last one of them in the California Railroad Museum in Sacramento when you are in the area. Quite an impressive museum. http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=668 Also, look up the 16 to one mine, as they have by far, the best underground gold mine tour in the U.S. http://www.origsix.com/ and then there is this site if you haven't seen it yet: http://www.ncngrrmuseum.org/index.html?0.2172240024588714
          > >
          > > To: NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com
          > > From: dennisivison@...
          > > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:01:17 +0000
          > > Subject: Re: <NevadaCoNG> An Introduction, and a Question
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Loren,
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Thank you for the input. Did you work underground? I've been a
          > >
          > > firefighter for 23 years and have been in some very dark, tight
          > >
          > > places, but when I looked down that mine shaft and thought of being a
          > >
          > > mile underground I have to admit that it made my legs wobble!
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > I looked around for some tailings at some of the mine sites that we
          > >
          > > visited and couldn't tell if any of the rocks were tailings. We saw
          > >
          > > all of the colors that you mentioned, as well as some very dark brown
          > >
          > > quartz. I took some pictures of each, you know just in case. I
          > >
          > > thought of taking some samples, but don't like to "borrow" from
          > >
          > > historical sites. We have a hard enough time preserving what little
          > >
          > > history we have left already. When I modeled the Espee in Arizona a
          > >
          > > large part of the layout was devoted to copper mining & smelting. I
          > >
          > > have a retired friend (we were partners for 10+ years) that lives
          > >
          > > down there, and one time after a phone conversation, I had a package
          > >
          > > show-up via USPS. It was about 10 lbs of copper mine tailings; he had
          > >
          > > sifted it down to fine grains and everything! The note told me where
          > >
          > > he got them, and I suspect that they were probably a mix of tailings
          > >
          > > and slag...great stuff, I hope he didn't use his wife's flour sifter.
          > >
          > > For awhile I was reluctant to use them, or even touch them! I still
          > >
          > > have a bunch of that stuff left. I'm not suggesting that anyone send
          > >
          > > me another bag of dirt, just knowing the color would be great. If all
          > >
          > > else fails I'll go with the basalt, it makes the most sense. But, you
          > >
          > > all know what'll happen�..as soon as the last section of ballast
          > >
          > > dries someone will post a picture�and I'll have guessed wrong.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Thanks again,
          > >
          > > Dennis
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, Loren Miller <rioting@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > Interesting. I live here and have actually worked in the gold mines
          > >
          > > of the area. Most of the hard rock mines are a quartz vein in basalt
          > >
          > > and/or serpentine. The basalt is dark gray, the serpentine a mottled
          > >
          > > green but has no structural integrity. I have not seen the actual
          > >
          > > ballast from the ncngrr, nor the tailings from the mine you
          > >
          > > mentioned. Perhaps somebody can tell you better, but I have seen
          > >
          > > nothing but gray to dark gray ballast on any tracks here in Northern
          > >
          > > California, and the basalt is quite hard, has sharp edges and stays
          > >
          > > put as it locks into place. It is also used on many dirt roads here
          > >
          > > for the same reasons ans in the quarry industry that sells it for
          > >
          > > that purpose, it is called "mine rock" for obvious reasons. I hope
          > >
          > > that helps some. Other people here may have better info and more
          > >
          > > accurate having done much closer research to the actual ncngrr
          > >
          > > tracks, pictures, etc.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > _________________________________________________________________
          > > More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger.
          > > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > Have you visited or contributed to the FILES or LINKS section yet? Check them out!Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > -=Andrew Brandon=-
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Have you visited or contributed to the FILES or LINKS section yet? Check them out!Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >

          _________________________________________________________________
          More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live Messenger.
          http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Dennis Ivison
          Somewhere in my reading an author said the narrow gauge was referred to as The Golden Road because of the gold still in the ballast. I ve been re-reading all
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 16, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Somewhere in my reading an author said the narrow gauge was referred
            to as "The Golden Road" because of the gold still in the ballast.
            I've been re-reading all my resources to try to find that reference.

            I definitely have enough information now to feel confident in my
            selection, and I really want to thank both Loren and Andrew for
            taking the time to help me out. Getting the proper ballast color may
            sound inconsequential, but I would like to get it right. When I get
            the new pike up and running I'll be back to monthly operations
            sessions, as well as hosting regular layout tours, and I'd like to do
            my adopted railroad justice.

            Thanks again,
            Dennis


            --- In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, Loren Miller <rioting@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > AhHA! I knew somebody would be more of an authority on this with
            actual photos and existing right of way, as well as actual historical
            content. Thanks for clearing that up for all of us.
            >
            > > To: NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com
            > > From: andrew.brandon@...
            > > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:10:14 -0700
            > > Subject: Re: <NevadaCoNG> An Introduction, and a Question
            > >
            > > The NCNG used the cheapest material they could as ballast, river
            rock.
            > > If you look closely in NCNG photos you'll notice that the ballast
            > > seems to be very "white" in later years. Since the NCNG ran the
            > > standard gauge gravel spur they had a cheap source of ballast,
            > > uncomfortable to walk on, a pain in neck to work with but
            excellent
            > > for drainage.
            > >
            > > You can see an example of this ballast here:
            > > http://www.ncngrrmuseum.org/pb/images/img18676447aa39e8140b.jpg
            > > It is not the greatest picture but it will give you some idea,
            you're
            > > looking for a mostly quartz ballast with some limestone in there.
            > > Keep in mind that along the NCNG some areas were still "lightly"
            > > ballasted I believe the photo of the You Bet station from Best's
            book
            > > shows this. If I get a chance I'll scan a few shots of the R.O.W.
            that
            > > show the ballasting and upload them to the group.
            > >
            > > -=Andrew=-
            > >
            > >
            > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 12:13 AM, Loren Miller <rioting@...>
            wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Yes I worked underground for 2 companies. I was hired as a
            welder, but in this business in this area for small companies,
            everybody learns everything. I learned a bit about the geology,
            drilling blasting and what to do with the aftermath. The Original 16
            to One mine in Allegheny, Ca, which is to date the oldest
            continuously working gold mine in the U.S. was what we call a pocket
            mine. This is because the gold occurred in pockets. We would mine
            tons of beautiful white quartz and find nothing in it. This as well
            as whatever rock we blew up was called waste rock, and would be
            either backfilled into the stopes we mined out, or removed to the
            surface and screened, and then sold as road rock. When the quartz is
            exposed to the air, it turns brown. Since the gold only occurs in the
            quartz, it only makes sense to mine that. Mining is expensive and we
            would only want to mine what potentially has gold in it, however,
            sometimes we would have to drift through bedrock, which in our case
            was basalt to get to suspected quartz veins. In the case of the
            Empire Mine in Grass Valley, a couple of years ago, men from our crew
            tunneled a drift some 800 feet to the main shaft so tourists could
            walk a level path into the deeper part of the main winze. (A winze is
            a shaft that is not vertical, a drift is a tunnel that is
            horizontal.) That project was all waste rock, and a lot of dirt. In
            any case, most mines around here were similar in that the tailings
            that were suspected to have no potential for gold would be tossed
            over the easiest hill from the portal as the least amount of money
            would be spent on it's disposal. If you look around you can find mine
            portals and estimate the size based upon the mountain of tailings
            that cascade down from the portal. Most of these will be that dark
            gray color, which you will find also to be the color of the ballast.
            Quartz does not usually have the structural integrity to be ballast
            because it crumbles easy. Basalt is very tough stuff and consumes
            drill bits, and much explosives to break it, as well, it holds up to
            the rigors of supporting railroad ties, doesn't break easily under
            the weight of heavy rolling stock and stays put due to it's sharp
            edges. It is likely to be the ballast of choice for any railroad in
            this area because it is already broken, crushed, and FREE. The
            closest mine to the railroad with a huge pile of tailings would be a
            welcome resource to the railroad company. The mine of course would
            love to have the problem of getting rid of the tailings handled so
            this would have been a marriage "set in stone" Excuse the pun.
            Anyway, if you have the google earth program, you can search the area
            and find much of what you are looking for. Also, you will probably
            find similar rock used for ballast at any California rail roadbed.
            Try the SP lines in your area. On another note, for history's sake,
            and the history of the SP, my great grandfather used to engineer the
            cab forward ACs from Colfax to Reno. We have the last one of them in
            the California Railroad Museum in Sacramento when you are in the
            area. Quite an impressive museum. http://www.parks.ca.gov/?
            page_id=668 Also, look up the 16 to one mine, as they have by far,
            the best underground gold mine tour in the U.S.
            http://www.origsix.com/ and then there is this site if you haven't
            seen it yet: http://www.ncngrrmuseum.org/index.html?0.2172240024588714
            > > >
            > > > To: NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com
            > > > From: dennisivison@...
            > > > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:01:17 +0000
            > > > Subject: Re: <NevadaCoNG> An Introduction, and a Question
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Loren,
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Thank you for the input. Did you work underground? I've been a
            > > >
            > > > firefighter for 23 years and have been in some very dark, tight
            > > >
            > > > places, but when I looked down that mine shaft and thought of
            being a
            > > >
            > > > mile underground I have to admit that it made my legs wobble!
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > I looked around for some tailings at some of the mine sites
            that we
            > > >
            > > > visited and couldn't tell if any of the rocks were tailings.
            We saw
            > > >
            > > > all of the colors that you mentioned, as well as some very
            dark brown
            > > >
            > > > quartz. I took some pictures of each, you know just in case. I
            > > >
            > > > thought of taking some samples, but don't like to "borrow" from
            > > >
            > > > historical sites. We have a hard enough time preserving what
            little
            > > >
            > > > history we have left already. When I modeled the Espee in
            Arizona a
            > > >
            > > > large part of the layout was devoted to copper mining &
            smelting. I
            > > >
            > > > have a retired friend (we were partners for 10+ years) that
            lives
            > > >
            > > > down there, and one time after a phone conversation, I had a
            package
            > > >
            > > > show-up via USPS. It was about 10 lbs of copper mine tailings;
            he had
            > > >
            > > > sifted it down to fine grains and everything! The note told me
            where
            > > >
            > > > he got them, and I suspect that they were probably a mix of
            tailings
            > > >
            > > > and slag...great stuff, I hope he didn't use his wife's flour
            sifter.
            > > >
            > > > For awhile I was reluctant to use them, or even touch them! I
            still
            > > >
            > > > have a bunch of that stuff left. I'm not suggesting that
            anyone send
            > > >
            > > > me another bag of dirt, just knowing the color would be great.
            If all
            > > >
            > > > else fails I'll go with the basalt, it makes the most sense.
            But, you
            > > >
            > > > all know what'll happen…..as soon as the last section of
            ballast
            > > >
            > > > dries someone will post a picture…and I'll have guessed wrong.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Thanks again,
            > > >
            > > > Dennis
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, Loren Miller <rioting@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > > > Interesting. I live here and have actually worked in the
            gold mines
            > > >
            > > > of the area. Most of the hard rock mines are a quartz vein in
            basalt
            > > >
            > > > and/or serpentine. The basalt is dark gray, the serpentine a
            mottled
            > > >
            > > > green but has no structural integrity. I have not seen the
            actual
            > > >
            > > > ballast from the ncngrr, nor the tailings from the mine you
            > > >
            > > > mentioned. Perhaps somebody can tell you better, but I have
            seen
            > > >
            > > > nothing but gray to dark gray ballast on any tracks here in
            Northern
            > > >
            > > > California, and the basalt is quite hard, has sharp edges and
            stays
            > > >
            > > > put as it locks into place. It is also used on many dirt roads
            here
            > > >
            > > > for the same reasons ans in the quarry industry that sells it
            for
            > > >
            > > > that purpose, it is called "mine rock" for obvious reasons. I
            hope
            > > >
            > > > that helps some. Other people here may have better info and
            more
            > > >
            > > > accurate having done much closer research to the actual ncngrr
            > > >
            > > > tracks, pictures, etc.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            _________________________________________________________________
            > > > More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows
            Live Messenger.
            > > > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?
            ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ------------------------------------
            > > >
            > > > Have you visited or contributed to the FILES or LINKS section
            yet? Check them out!Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --
            > > -=Andrew Brandon=-
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > Have you visited or contributed to the FILES or LINKS section
            yet? Check them out!Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > _________________________________________________________________
            > More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live
            Messenger.
            > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?
            ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Doug MacLeod
            Dennis: Chapter 4, page 38, first paragraph, in Jerry Best s Nevada County Narrow Gauge book. Doug MacLeod, Roseville, CA ... From: Dennis Ivison To:
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 16, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Dennis:
              Chapter 4, page 38, first paragraph, in Jerry Best's Nevada County Narrow Gauge book.
              Doug MacLeod, Roseville, CA

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Dennis Ivison
              To: NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:23 PM
              Subject: Re: <NevadaCoNG> An Introduction, and a Question


              Somewhere in my reading an author said the narrow gauge was referred
              to as "The Golden Road" because of the gold still in the ballast.
              I've been re-reading all my resources to try to find that reference.

              I definitely have enough information now to feel confident in my
              selection, and I really want to thank both Loren and Andrew for
              taking the time to help me out. Getting the proper ballast color may
              sound inconsequential, but I would like to get it right. When I get
              the new pike up and running I'll be back to monthly operations
              sessions, as well as hosting regular layout tours, and I'd like to do
              my adopted railroad justice.

              Thanks again,
              Dennis

              --- In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, Loren Miller <rioting@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > AhHA! I knew somebody would be more of an authority on this with
              actual photos and existing right of way, as well as actual historical
              content. Thanks for clearing that up for all of us.
              >
              > > To: NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com
              > > From: andrew.brandon@...
              > > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:10:14 -0700
              > > Subject: Re: <NevadaCoNG> An Introduction, and a Question
              > >
              > > The NCNG used the cheapest material they could as ballast, river
              rock.
              > > If you look closely in NCNG photos you'll notice that the ballast
              > > seems to be very "white" in later years. Since the NCNG ran the
              > > standard gauge gravel spur they had a cheap source of ballast,
              > > uncomfortable to walk on, a pain in neck to work with but
              excellent
              > > for drainage.
              > >
              > > You can see an example of this ballast here:
              > > http://www.ncngrrmuseum.org/pb/images/img18676447aa39e8140b.jpg
              > > It is not the greatest picture but it will give you some idea,
              you're
              > > looking for a mostly quartz ballast with some limestone in there.
              > > Keep in mind that along the NCNG some areas were still "lightly"
              > > ballasted I believe the photo of the You Bet station from Best's
              book
              > > shows this. If I get a chance I'll scan a few shots of the R.O.W.
              that
              > > show the ballasting and upload them to the group.
              > >
              > > -=Andrew=-
              > >
              > >
              > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 12:13 AM, Loren Miller <rioting@...>
              wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Yes I worked underground for 2 companies. I was hired as a
              welder, but in this business in this area for small companies,
              everybody learns everything. I learned a bit about the geology,
              drilling blasting and what to do with the aftermath. The Original 16
              to One mine in Allegheny, Ca, which is to date the oldest
              continuously working gold mine in the U.S. was what we call a pocket
              mine. This is because the gold occurred in pockets. We would mine
              tons of beautiful white quartz and find nothing in it. This as well
              as whatever rock we blew up was called waste rock, and would be
              either backfilled into the stopes we mined out, or removed to the
              surface and screened, and then sold as road rock. When the quartz is
              exposed to the air, it turns brown. Since the gold only occurs in the
              quartz, it only makes sense to mine that. Mining is expensive and we
              would only want to mine what potentially has gold in it, however,
              sometimes we would have to drift through bedrock, which in our case
              was basalt to get to suspected quartz veins. In the case of the
              Empire Mine in Grass Valley, a couple of years ago, men from our crew
              tunneled a drift some 800 feet to the main shaft so tourists could
              walk a level path into the deeper part of the main winze. (A winze is
              a shaft that is not vertical, a drift is a tunnel that is
              horizontal.) That project was all waste rock, and a lot of dirt. In
              any case, most mines around here were similar in that the tailings
              that were suspected to have no potential for gold would be tossed
              over the easiest hill from the portal as the least amount of money
              would be spent on it's disposal. If you look around you can find mine
              portals and estimate the size based upon the mountain of tailings
              that cascade down from the portal. Most of these will be that dark
              gray color, which you will find also to be the color of the ballast.
              Quartz does not usually have the structural integrity to be ballast
              because it crumbles easy. Basalt is very tough stuff and consumes
              drill bits, and much explosives to break it, as well, it holds up to
              the rigors of supporting railroad ties, doesn't break easily under
              the weight of heavy rolling stock and stays put due to it's sharp
              edges. It is likely to be the ballast of choice for any railroad in
              this area because it is already broken, crushed, and FREE. The
              closest mine to the railroad with a huge pile of tailings would be a
              welcome resource to the railroad company. The mine of course would
              love to have the problem of getting rid of the tailings handled so
              this would have been a marriage "set in stone" Excuse the pun.
              Anyway, if you have the google earth program, you can search the area
              and find much of what you are looking for. Also, you will probably
              find similar rock used for ballast at any California rail roadbed.
              Try the SP lines in your area. On another note, for history's sake,
              and the history of the SP, my great grandfather used to engineer the
              cab forward ACs from Colfax to Reno. We have the last one of them in
              the California Railroad Museum in Sacramento when you are in the
              area. Quite an impressive museum. http://www.parks.ca.gov/?
              page_id=668 Also, look up the 16 to one mine, as they have by far,
              the best underground gold mine tour in the U.S.
              http://www.origsix.com/ and then there is this site if you haven't
              seen it yet: http://www.ncngrrmuseum.org/index.html?0.2172240024588714
              > > >
              > > > To: NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com
              > > > From: dennisivison@...
              > > > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:01:17 +0000
              > > > Subject: Re: <NevadaCoNG> An Introduction, and a Question
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Loren,
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Thank you for the input. Did you work underground? I've been a
              > > >
              > > > firefighter for 23 years and have been in some very dark, tight
              > > >
              > > > places, but when I looked down that mine shaft and thought of
              being a
              > > >
              > > > mile underground I have to admit that it made my legs wobble!
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > I looked around for some tailings at some of the mine sites
              that we
              > > >
              > > > visited and couldn't tell if any of the rocks were tailings.
              We saw
              > > >
              > > > all of the colors that you mentioned, as well as some very
              dark brown
              > > >
              > > > quartz. I took some pictures of each, you know just in case. I
              > > >
              > > > thought of taking some samples, but don't like to "borrow" from
              > > >
              > > > historical sites. We have a hard enough time preserving what
              little
              > > >
              > > > history we have left already. When I modeled the Espee in
              Arizona a
              > > >
              > > > large part of the layout was devoted to copper mining &
              smelting. I
              > > >
              > > > have a retired friend (we were partners for 10+ years) that
              lives
              > > >
              > > > down there, and one time after a phone conversation, I had a
              package
              > > >
              > > > show-up via USPS. It was about 10 lbs of copper mine tailings;
              he had
              > > >
              > > > sifted it down to fine grains and everything! The note told me
              where
              > > >
              > > > he got them, and I suspect that they were probably a mix of
              tailings
              > > >
              > > > and slag...great stuff, I hope he didn't use his wife's flour
              sifter.
              > > >
              > > > For awhile I was reluctant to use them, or even touch them! I
              still
              > > >
              > > > have a bunch of that stuff left. I'm not suggesting that
              anyone send
              > > >
              > > > me another bag of dirt, just knowing the color would be great.
              If all
              > > >
              > > > else fails I'll go with the basalt, it makes the most sense.
              But, you
              > > >
              > > > all know what'll happen...as soon as the last section of
              ballast
              > > >
              > > > dries someone will post a picture.and I'll have guessed wrong.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Thanks again,
              > > >
              > > > Dennis
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, Loren Miller <rioting@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > > > Interesting. I live here and have actually worked in the
              gold mines
              > > >
              > > > of the area. Most of the hard rock mines are a quartz vein in
              basalt
              > > >
              > > > and/or serpentine. The basalt is dark gray, the serpentine a
              mottled
              > > >
              > > > green but has no structural integrity. I have not seen the
              actual
              > > >
              > > > ballast from the ncngrr, nor the tailings from the mine you
              > > >
              > > > mentioned. Perhaps somebody can tell you better, but I have
              seen
              > > >
              > > > nothing but gray to dark gray ballast on any tracks here in
              Northern
              > > >
              > > > California, and the basalt is quite hard, has sharp edges and
              stays
              > > >
              > > > put as it locks into place. It is also used on many dirt roads
              here
              > > >
              > > > for the same reasons ans in the quarry industry that sells it
              for
              > > >
              > > > that purpose, it is called "mine rock" for obvious reasons. I
              hope
              > > >
              > > > that helps some. Other people here may have better info and
              more
              > > >
              > > > accurate having done much closer research to the actual ncngrr
              > > >
              > > > tracks, pictures, etc.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              __________________________________________________________
              > > > More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows
              Live Messenger.
              > > > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?
              ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ------------------------------------
              > > >
              > > > Have you visited or contributed to the FILES or LINKS section
              yet? Check them out!Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > -=Andrew Brandon=-
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > Have you visited or contributed to the FILES or LINKS section
              yet? Check them out!Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > __________________________________________________________
              > More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows Live
              Messenger.
              > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?
              ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Dennis Ivison
              Thanks Doug, that saved me some looking. I learned aboud hygrading for the first time when we visited the Empire Mine. I guess that would be a good little
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 17, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Thanks Doug, that saved me some looking. I learned aboud "hygrading"
                for the first time when we visited the Empire Mine. I guess that
                would be a good little side job.

                --- In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, "Doug MacLeod" <dmacleod@...> wrote:
                >
                > Dennis:
                > Chapter 4, page 38, first paragraph, in Jerry Best's Nevada
                County Narrow Gauge book.
                > Doug MacLeod, Roseville, CA
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Dennis Ivison
                > To: NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:23 PM
                > Subject: Re: <NevadaCoNG> An Introduction, and a Question
                >
                >
                > Somewhere in my reading an author said the narrow gauge was
                referred
                > to as "The Golden Road" because of the gold still in the ballast.
                > I've been re-reading all my resources to try to find that
                reference.
                >
                > I definitely have enough information now to feel confident in my
                > selection, and I really want to thank both Loren and Andrew for
                > taking the time to help me out. Getting the proper ballast color
                may
                > sound inconsequential, but I would like to get it right. When I
                get
                > the new pike up and running I'll be back to monthly operations
                > sessions, as well as hosting regular layout tours, and I'd like
                to do
                > my adopted railroad justice.
                >
                > Thanks again,
                > Dennis
                >
                > --- In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, Loren Miller <rioting@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > AhHA! I knew somebody would be more of an authority on this
                with
                > actual photos and existing right of way, as well as actual
                historical
                > content. Thanks for clearing that up for all of us.
                > >
                > > > To: NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com
                > > > From: andrew.brandon@
                > > > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:10:14 -0700
                > > > Subject: Re: <NevadaCoNG> An Introduction, and a Question
                > > >
                > > > The NCNG used the cheapest material they could as ballast,
                river
                > rock.
                > > > If you look closely in NCNG photos you'll notice that the
                ballast
                > > > seems to be very "white" in later years. Since the NCNG ran
                the
                > > > standard gauge gravel spur they had a cheap source of ballast,
                > > > uncomfortable to walk on, a pain in neck to work with but
                > excellent
                > > > for drainage.
                > > >
                > > > You can see an example of this ballast here:
                > > >
                http://www.ncngrrmuseum.org/pb/images/img18676447aa39e8140b.jpg
                > > > It is not the greatest picture but it will give you some
                idea,
                > you're
                > > > looking for a mostly quartz ballast with some limestone in
                there.
                > > > Keep in mind that along the NCNG some areas were
                still "lightly"
                > > > ballasted I believe the photo of the You Bet station from
                Best's
                > book
                > > > shows this. If I get a chance I'll scan a few shots of the
                R.O.W.
                > that
                > > > show the ballasting and upload them to the group.
                > > >
                > > > -=Andrew=-
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 12:13 AM, Loren Miller <rioting@>
                > wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Yes I worked underground for 2 companies. I was hired as a
                > welder, but in this business in this area for small companies,
                > everybody learns everything. I learned a bit about the geology,
                > drilling blasting and what to do with the aftermath. The Original
                16
                > to One mine in Allegheny, Ca, which is to date the oldest
                > continuously working gold mine in the U.S. was what we call a
                pocket
                > mine. This is because the gold occurred in pockets. We would mine
                > tons of beautiful white quartz and find nothing in it. This as
                well
                > as whatever rock we blew up was called waste rock, and would be
                > either backfilled into the stopes we mined out, or removed to the
                > surface and screened, and then sold as road rock. When the quartz
                is
                > exposed to the air, it turns brown. Since the gold only occurs in
                the
                > quartz, it only makes sense to mine that. Mining is expensive and
                we
                > would only want to mine what potentially has gold in it, however,
                > sometimes we would have to drift through bedrock, which in our
                case
                > was basalt to get to suspected quartz veins. In the case of the
                > Empire Mine in Grass Valley, a couple of years ago, men from our
                crew
                > tunneled a drift some 800 feet to the main shaft so tourists
                could
                > walk a level path into the deeper part of the main winze. (A
                winze is
                > a shaft that is not vertical, a drift is a tunnel that is
                > horizontal.) That project was all waste rock, and a lot of dirt.
                In
                > any case, most mines around here were similar in that the
                tailings
                > that were suspected to have no potential for gold would be tossed
                > over the easiest hill from the portal as the least amount of
                money
                > would be spent on it's disposal. If you look around you can find
                mine
                > portals and estimate the size based upon the mountain of tailings
                > that cascade down from the portal. Most of these will be that
                dark
                > gray color, which you will find also to be the color of the
                ballast.
                > Quartz does not usually have the structural integrity to be
                ballast
                > because it crumbles easy. Basalt is very tough stuff and consumes
                > drill bits, and much explosives to break it, as well, it holds up
                to
                > the rigors of supporting railroad ties, doesn't break easily
                under
                > the weight of heavy rolling stock and stays put due to it's sharp
                > edges. It is likely to be the ballast of choice for any railroad
                in
                > this area because it is already broken, crushed, and FREE. The
                > closest mine to the railroad with a huge pile of tailings would
                be a
                > welcome resource to the railroad company. The mine of course
                would
                > love to have the problem of getting rid of the tailings handled
                so
                > this would have been a marriage "set in stone" Excuse the pun.
                > Anyway, if you have the google earth program, you can search the
                area
                > and find much of what you are looking for. Also, you will
                probably
                > find similar rock used for ballast at any California rail
                roadbed.
                > Try the SP lines in your area. On another note, for history's
                sake,
                > and the history of the SP, my great grandfather used to engineer
                the
                > cab forward ACs from Colfax to Reno. We have the last one of them
                in
                > the California Railroad Museum in Sacramento when you are in the
                > area. Quite an impressive museum. http://www.parks.ca.gov/?
                > page_id=668 Also, look up the 16 to one mine, as they have by
                far,
                > the best underground gold mine tour in the U.S.
                > http://www.origsix.com/ and then there is this site if you
                haven't
                > seen it yet: http://www.ncngrrmuseum.org/index.html?
                0.2172240024588714
                > > > >
                > > > > To: NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > From: dennisivison@
                > > > > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 05:01:17 +0000
                > > > > Subject: Re: <NevadaCoNG> An Introduction, and a Question
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Loren,
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Thank you for the input. Did you work underground? I've
                been a
                > > > >
                > > > > firefighter for 23 years and have been in some very dark,
                tight
                > > > >
                > > > > places, but when I looked down that mine shaft and thought
                of
                > being a
                > > > >
                > > > > mile underground I have to admit that it made my legs
                wobble!
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > I looked around for some tailings at some of the mine sites
                > that we
                > > > >
                > > > > visited and couldn't tell if any of the rocks were
                tailings.
                > We saw
                > > > >
                > > > > all of the colors that you mentioned, as well as some very
                > dark brown
                > > > >
                > > > > quartz. I took some pictures of each, you know just in
                case. I
                > > > >
                > > > > thought of taking some samples, but don't like to "borrow"
                from
                > > > >
                > > > > historical sites. We have a hard enough time preserving
                what
                > little
                > > > >
                > > > > history we have left already. When I modeled the Espee in
                > Arizona a
                > > > >
                > > > > large part of the layout was devoted to copper mining &
                > smelting. I
                > > > >
                > > > > have a retired friend (we were partners for 10+ years) that
                > lives
                > > > >
                > > > > down there, and one time after a phone conversation, I had
                a
                > package
                > > > >
                > > > > show-up via USPS. It was about 10 lbs of copper mine
                tailings;
                > he had
                > > > >
                > > > > sifted it down to fine grains and everything! The note told
                me
                > where
                > > > >
                > > > > he got them, and I suspect that they were probably a mix of
                > tailings
                > > > >
                > > > > and slag...great stuff, I hope he didn't use his wife's
                flour
                > sifter.
                > > > >
                > > > > For awhile I was reluctant to use them, or even touch them!
                I
                > still
                > > > >
                > > > > have a bunch of that stuff left. I'm not suggesting that
                > anyone send
                > > > >
                > > > > me another bag of dirt, just knowing the color would be
                great.
                > If all
                > > > >
                > > > > else fails I'll go with the basalt, it makes the most
                sense.
                > But, you
                > > > >
                > > > > all know what'll happen...as soon as the last section of
                > ballast
                > > > >
                > > > > dries someone will post a picture.and I'll have guessed
                wrong.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Thanks again,
                > > > >
                > > > > Dennis
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, Loren Miller <rioting@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > > Interesting. I live here and have actually worked in the
                > gold mines
                > > > >
                > > > > of the area. Most of the hard rock mines are a quartz vein
                in
                > basalt
                > > > >
                > > > > and/or serpentine. The basalt is dark gray, the serpentine
                a
                > mottled
                > > > >
                > > > > green but has no structural integrity. I have not seen the
                > actual
                > > > >
                > > > > ballast from the ncngrr, nor the tailings from the mine you
                > > > >
                > > > > mentioned. Perhaps somebody can tell you better, but I have
                > seen
                > > > >
                > > > > nothing but gray to dark gray ballast on any tracks here in
                > Northern
                > > > >
                > > > > California, and the basalt is quite hard, has sharp edges
                and
                > stays
                > > > >
                > > > > put as it locks into place. It is also used on many dirt
                roads
                > here
                > > > >
                > > > > for the same reasons ans in the quarry industry that sells
                it
                > for
                > > > >
                > > > > that purpose, it is called "mine rock" for obvious reasons.
                I
                > hope
                > > > >
                > > > > that helps some. Other people here may have better info and
                > more
                > > > >
                > > > > accurate having done much closer research to the actual
                ncngrr
                > > > >
                > > > > tracks, pictures, etc.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > __________________________________________________________
                > > > > More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows
                > Live Messenger.
                > > > > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?
                > ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008
                > > > >
                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > ------------------------------------
                > > > >
                > > > > Have you visited or contributed to the FILES or LINKS
                section
                > yet? Check them out!Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --
                > > > -=Andrew Brandon=-
                > > >
                > > > ------------------------------------
                > > >
                > > > Have you visited or contributed to the FILES or LINKS section
                > yet? Check them out!Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > > __________________________________________________________
                > > More immediate than e-mail? Get instant access with Windows
                Live
                > Messenger.
                > > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?
                > ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_instantaccess_042008
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • brucec4193@aol.com
                Hello, I am a new member and was under the impression that there was to be a meeting tonight at the De Witt center? Could you please tell me where and when
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 17, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello,

                  I am a new member and was under the impression that there was to be a
                  meeting tonight at the De Witt center? Could you please tell me where and when the
                  next meeting is?

                  Thanks,

                  Bruce Choate



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