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8-ton Carter Bros box car

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  • dmacleod@surewest.net
    Hi Florian: I have the plastic injected 0n3 4 w.b. NCNG swing motion arch bar truck available. Precision Scale Co. should have in available in brass. Have
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 18, 2006
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      Hi Florian:
      I have the plastic injected 0n3 4' w.b. NCNG swing motion arch bar truck
      available. Precision Scale Co. should have in available in brass. Have
      plans to cut the plastic injection cavity for the 3' 8" w.b truck, later
      version, for the 24' box car, but it has been sitting on the list of things
      to do for quite a while. Herman Darr did a drawing of the 24' box car.
      Coronado Scale Models should have the drawing. CORONADOSCALEMOD@...
      Was the underbody painted? Do a search on EarlyRail@yahoogroups.com and
      read what Randy Hees has to say about under body narrow gauge freight cars.
      Doug MacLeod, Roseville CA
      http://www.macleodwestern.com/train.html

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "flobarchetti" <flobarchetti@...>
      To: <NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 4:08 AM
      Subject: <NevadaCoNG> Hello all, I am new to the group!


      > Hi, I am Florian and one of the very few (if not so, guys let me
      > know!) friends of the NCNGRR in Switzerland. After getting caught by
      > the NCNGRR some years ago I was very happy finding this group by
      > coincidence.
      > Right now, I am working on a scratch-built #7 and would like to start
      > with some wood kits for Carter Bros. 24' box-cars soon. Beside
      > thousands of questions concerning #7 are just a couple about the box
      > cars.
      >
      > Are there any kits of correct 8-ton Carter Bros. trucks on the market
      > in On3?
      > Was the coupler hight only 22"?
      > Are there drawings available, that show those cars as they were on the
      > NCNG?
      > What is the prototype colour?
      > Was the underbody painted?
      > What coulour had the brake rigging,truss rods and the trucks?
      >
      > Any kind of information is greatly appreciated.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Have you visited or contributed to the FILES or LINKS section yet? Check
      > them out!
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Randy Hees
      When modeling the NCNG short boxcars you need to remember that there were really two phases… Phase one are the original 15 cars built in 1875, numbered 2-30
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 18, 2006
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        When modeling the NCNG short boxcars you need to remember that there
        were really two phases…

        Phase one are the original 15 cars built in 1875, numbered 2-30 (even
        numbers only) plus one more, apparently assembled by the NCNG from a
        Carter kit, numbered 32.

        These original cars (along with sister cars on the M&SV, NPC, SPC, SC&F
        and SCV) can be modeled using the laser cut kit from Deerfield models
        (described by Boone Morrison in the Sept/Oct O5 Gazette. Email edward448
        @ cs.com (remove the spaces) Alternatly if scratch building these cars,
        Doug’s box car casting set is a good start, available from Foothill
        models (link below)

        Later, the NCNG rebuilt these cars, with some growing to 26’. Foothill
        models has a great resin kit of this version (they also carry Doug’s
        trucks and other castings) http://home.inreach.com/jkitts/Car1.html

        The Carter 8 ton trucks are believed to be a 3’8” wheel base truck, with
        24” wheels, with wooden transom beams, with the ends cut off with a
        bevel underneath (this is the primary “spotting feature”), equipped with
        rubber springs. As far as I can tell these have never been produced, as
        built, but Coronado has some DSP&P trucks which seem close. Using Doug’s
        is a very good compromise.

        As for paint, our best guess for Carter is a Tuscan Red. I like scale
        coat. The underbody wasn’t painted. Anything painted was painted Tuscany
        including the trucks.

        Herman’s plans, mentioned by Doug is a good start. Bruce MacGregor’s
        book, the Birth of California Narrow Gauge (Stanford University Press,
        still in print) is very good for early Carter designs, and includes lots
        of drawings, and a color copy of a paint chip.

        Randy Hees
      • Andrew Brandon
        Randy, Is it known if Carter painted the cars? I had always thought they were kits which were delivered to the NCNG and then assembled. The reason I wonder
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 18, 2006
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          Randy,

          Is it known if Carter painted the cars?
          I had always thought they were kits which were delivered to the NCNG
          and then assembled.
          The reason I wonder this is because of the lettering style on the
          cars, while they did appear to use railroad roman in the earliest
          photo I could locate showing lettering (1877 I think) the lettering is
          in the familiar arch on the sides. Herman and I looked at this when I
          was working on the decals for the Deerfield kits. To me and just as a
          complete speculation, I have a feeling that Kidder had some influence
          on the way the cars were painted originally because of this.
          As far as color goes, I've seen a few color images which show the cars
          from a shade of Tuscan to a very oxide red, Herman has noted this to
          me a few times in our chats and as far as later on in the life of the
          road based on the color film footage that was taken the cars
          definately seem to be more red than anything else.

          -Andrew-

          p.s. Doug can you send me an email, I have something for you.
          On 4/18/06, Randy Hees <hees@...> wrote:
          > When modeling the NCNG short boxcars you need to remember that there
          > were really two phases…
          >
          > Phase one are the original 15 cars built in 1875, numbered 2-30 (even
          > numbers only) plus one more, apparently assembled by the NCNG from a
          > Carter kit, numbered 32.
          >
          > These original cars (along with sister cars on the M&SV, NPC, SPC, SC&F
          > and SCV) can be modeled using the laser cut kit from Deerfield models
          > (described by Boone Morrison in the Sept/Oct O5 Gazette. Email edward448
          > @ cs.com (remove the spaces) Alternatly if scratch building these cars,
          > Doug's box car casting set is a good start, available from Foothill
          > models (link below)
          >
          > Later, the NCNG rebuilt these cars, with some growing to 26'. Foothill
          > models has a great resin kit of this version (they also carry Doug's
          > trucks and other castings) http://home.inreach.com/jkitts/Car1.html
          >
          > The Carter 8 ton trucks are believed to be a 3'8" wheel base truck, with
          > 24" wheels, with wooden transom beams, with the ends cut off with a
          > bevel underneath (this is the primary "spotting feature"), equipped with
          > rubber springs. As far as I can tell these have never been produced, as
          > built, but Coronado has some DSP&P trucks which seem close. Using Doug's
          > is a very good compromise.
          >
          > As for paint, our best guess for Carter is a Tuscan Red. I like scale
          > coat. The underbody wasn't painted. Anything painted was painted Tuscany
          > including the trucks.
          >
          > Herman's plans, mentioned by Doug is a good start. Bruce MacGregor's
          > book, the Birth of California Narrow Gauge (Stanford University Press,
          > still in print) is very good for early Carter designs, and includes lots
          > of drawings, and a color copy of a paint chip.
          >
          > Randy Hees
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Have you visited or contributed to the FILES or LINKS section yet? Check them out!
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


          --
          -=Andrew Brandon=-
        • Randy Hees
          Andrew... The best knowlage is the cars were built as kits in the Carter s short lived San Francisco plant, but assembled by a Carter crew in Colfax (at least
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 19, 2006
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            Andrew...

            The best knowlage is the cars were built as kits in the Carter's short
            lived San Francisco plant, but assembled by a Carter crew in Colfax (at
            least the first 15 cars). As such we would assume they painted them
            their standard color. Lettering could have been done by a locally hired
            sign painter, as was done in Monterey, so there could easly be a local
            influence there.

            Wooden cars were repainted and resided frequently, and within 10 years
            it is likely that eveything had been repainted by the railroad at least
            once, so would no longer be builder's paint, but may well have been
            influenced by the builder's practice.

            By the time color film is available (mid to late 1930's) The cars have
            been rebuilt several times, and repainted many times, and managment had
            changed at least 3 times, so anything you see is NCNG railroad not
            Carter Brothers.

            Randy


            Andrew Brandon wrote:

            >Randy,
            >
            >Is it known if Carter painted the cars?
            >I had always thought they were kits which were delivered to the NCNG
            >and then assembled.
            >The reason I wonder this is because of the lettering style on the
            >cars, while they did appear to use railroad roman in the earliest
            >photo I could locate showing lettering (1877 I think) the lettering is
            >in the familiar arch on the sides. Herman and I looked at this when I
            >was working on the decals for the Deerfield kits. To me and just as a
            >complete speculation, I have a feeling that Kidder had some influence
            >on the way the cars were painted originally because of this.
            >As far as color goes, I've seen a few color images which show the cars
            >from a shade of Tuscan to a very oxide red, Herman has noted this to
            >me a few times in our chats and as far as later on in the life of the
            >road based on the color film footage that was taken the cars
            >definately seem to be more red than anything else.
            >
            >-Andrew-
            >
            >p.s. Doug can you send me an email, I have something for you.
            >On 4/18/06, Randy Hees <hees@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >>When modeling the NCNG short boxcars you need to remember that there
            >>were really two phases…
            >>
            >>Phase one are the original 15 cars built in 1875, numbered 2-30 (even
            >>numbers only) plus one more, apparently assembled by the NCNG from a
            >>Carter kit, numbered 32.
            >>
            >>These original cars (along with sister cars on the M&SV, NPC, SPC, SC&F
            >>and SCV) can be modeled using the laser cut kit from Deerfield models
            >>(described by Boone Morrison in the Sept/Oct O5 Gazette. Email edward448
            >>@ cs.com (remove the spaces) Alternatly if scratch building these cars,
            >>Doug's box car casting set is a good start, available from Foothill
            >>models (link below)
            >>
            >>Later, the NCNG rebuilt these cars, with some growing to 26'. Foothill
            >>models has a great resin kit of this version (they also carry Doug's
            >>trucks and other castings) http://home.inreach.com/jkitts/Car1.html
            >>
            >>The Carter 8 ton trucks are believed to be a 3'8" wheel base truck, with
            >>24" wheels, with wooden transom beams, with the ends cut off with a
            >>bevel underneath (this is the primary "spotting feature"), equipped with
            >>rubber springs. As far as I can tell these have never been produced, as
            >>built, but Coronado has some DSP&P trucks which seem close. Using Doug's
            >>is a very good compromise.
            >>
            >>As for paint, our best guess for Carter is a Tuscan Red. I like scale
            >>coat. The underbody wasn't painted. Anything painted was painted Tuscany
            >>including the trucks.
            >>
            >>Herman's plans, mentioned by Doug is a good start. Bruce MacGregor's
            >>book, the Birth of California Narrow Gauge (Stanford University Press,
            >>still in print) is very good for early Carter designs, and includes lots
            >>of drawings, and a color copy of a paint chip.
            >>
            >>Randy Hees
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>Have you visited or contributed to the FILES or LINKS section yet? Check them out!
            >>Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >--
            >-=Andrew Brandon=-
            >
            >
            >Have you visited or contributed to the FILES or LINKS section yet? Check them out!
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Andrew Brandon
            Randy, Thanks for clearing that up. It looks like I ll have to go digging into some old newspapers to see if I can find any mention of the construction work in
            Message 5 of 5 , Apr 19, 2006
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              Randy,

              Thanks for clearing that up.
              It looks like I'll have to go digging into some old newspapers to see
              if I can find any mention of the construction work in Colfax. I
              believe that at that point in time atleast 3 papers covered the colfax
              area so there might be some useful information around. Since it was
              the Carter crew that assembled them I agree that a tuscan color would
              most likely be appropriate.

              -Andrew Brandon-





              On 4/19/06, Randy Hees <hees@...> wrote:
              > Andrew...
              >
              > The best knowlage is the cars were built as kits in the Carter's short
              > lived San Francisco plant, but assembled by a Carter crew in Colfax (at
              > least the first 15 cars). As such we would assume they painted them
              > their standard color. Lettering could have been done by a locally hired
              > sign painter, as was done in Monterey, so there could easly be a local
              > influence there.
              >
              > Wooden cars were repainted and resided frequently, and within 10 years
              > it is likely that eveything had been repainted by the railroad at least
              > once, so would no longer be builder's paint, but may well have been
              > influenced by the builder's practice.
              >
              > By the time color film is available (mid to late 1930's) The cars have
              > been rebuilt several times, and repainted many times, and managment had
              > changed at least 3 times, so anything you see is NCNG railroad not
              > Carter Brothers.
              >
              > Randy
              >
              >
              > Andrew Brandon wrote:
              >
              > >Randy,
              > >
              > >Is it known if Carter painted the cars?
              > >I had always thought they were kits which were delivered to the NCNG
              > >and then assembled.
              > >The reason I wonder this is because of the lettering style on the
              > >cars, while they did appear to use railroad roman in the earliest
              > >photo I could locate showing lettering (1877 I think) the lettering is
              > >in the familiar arch on the sides. Herman and I looked at this when I
              > >was working on the decals for the Deerfield kits. To me and just as a
              > >complete speculation, I have a feeling that Kidder had some influence
              > >on the way the cars were painted originally because of this.
              > >As far as color goes, I've seen a few color images which show the cars
              > >from a shade of Tuscan to a very oxide red, Herman has noted this to
              > >me a few times in our chats and as far as later on in the life of the
              > >road based on the color film footage that was taken the cars
              > >definately seem to be more red than anything else.
              > >
              > >-Andrew-
              > >
              > >p.s. Doug can you send me an email, I have something for you.
              > >On 4/18/06, Randy Hees <hees@...> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >>When modeling the NCNG short boxcars you need to remember that there
              > >>were really two phases…
              > >>
              > >>Phase one are the original 15 cars built in 1875, numbered 2-30 (even
              > >>numbers only) plus one more, apparently assembled by the NCNG from a
              > >>Carter kit, numbered 32.
              > >>
              > >>These original cars (along with sister cars on the M&SV, NPC, SPC, SC&F
              > >>and SCV) can be modeled using the laser cut kit from Deerfield models
              > >>(described by Boone Morrison in the Sept/Oct O5 Gazette. Email edward448
              > >>@ cs.com (remove the spaces) Alternatly if scratch building these cars,
              > >>Doug's box car casting set is a good start, available from Foothill
              > >>models (link below)
              > >>
              > >>Later, the NCNG rebuilt these cars, with some growing to 26'. Foothill
              > >>models has a great resin kit of this version (they also carry Doug's
              > >>trucks and other castings) http://home.inreach.com/jkitts/Car1.html
              > >>
              > >>The Carter 8 ton trucks are believed to be a 3'8" wheel base truck, with
              > >>24" wheels, with wooden transom beams, with the ends cut off with a
              > >>bevel underneath (this is the primary "spotting feature"), equipped with
              > >>rubber springs. As far as I can tell these have never been produced, as
              > >>built, but Coronado has some DSP&P trucks which seem close. Using Doug's
              > >>is a very good compromise.
              > >>
              > >>As for paint, our best guess for Carter is a Tuscan Red. I like scale
              > >>coat. The underbody wasn't painted. Anything painted was painted Tuscany
              > >>including the trucks.
              > >>
              > >>Herman's plans, mentioned by Doug is a good start. Bruce MacGregor's
              > >>book, the Birth of California Narrow Gauge (Stanford University Press,
              > >>still in print) is very good for early Carter designs, and includes lots
              > >>of drawings, and a color copy of a paint chip.
              > >>
              > >>Randy Hees
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>Have you visited or contributed to the FILES or LINKS section yet? Check them out!
              > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >--
              > >-=Andrew Brandon=-
              > >
              > >
              > >Have you visited or contributed to the FILES or LINKS section yet? Check them out!
              > >Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > Have you visited or contributed to the FILES or LINKS section yet? Check them out!
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


              --
              -=Andrew Brandon=-
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