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Passenger Car Questions...

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  • kejwa <keith@lobstershack.com>
    Any concensus as to the color of the passenger cars near the end of operations? Were they a darker green similar to D&RGW or were they a lighter coach
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 18, 2003
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      Any concensus as to the color of the passenger cars near the end of
      operations? Were they a darker green similar to D&RGW or were they a
      lighter "coach" green?

      As for the lettering:

      Were the letters white or gold?

      What font type were the letters?

      Thanks for any enlightenment!
      keith
    • Dennis Ivison
      First, I wanted to thank everyone for your kind help with my ballast color question. Our internet was down for awhile (ATT line service) so I could not get
      Message 2 of 7 , May 5, 2008
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        First, I wanted to thank everyone for your kind help with my ballast
        color question. Our internet was down for awhile (ATT line service) so
        I could not get back to thank everyone. However, it was kind of a
        blessing because it did get me out into the train room more often, so
        I've made quite a bit of progress on the layout.

        I hope that no one minds me dredging up an old inquiry. I was trying to
        search for "coach colors" and found Keith's question in the archives.
        Based on his question and the pictures of the NCNGRR model RR at the
        fairgrounds I would have to put my money on the coaches being a shade
        of green, as opposed to the Tuscan color of the coach at the NCNG
        Museum. Unfortunately the museum was closed when I came up for a visit,
        so I could not ask anyone there.

        I would appreciate it if anyone could shed some light on what color the
        passenger equipment was during the 1910 to 1925 period?

        Thank you,
        Dennis



        --- In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, "kejwa <keith@...>" <keith@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Any concensus as to the color of the passenger cars near the end of
        > operations? Were they a darker green similar to D&RGW or were they a
        > lighter "coach" green?
        >
        > As for the lettering:
        >
        > Were the letters white or gold?
        >
        > What font type were the letters?
        >
        > Thanks for any enlightenment!
        > keith
        >
      • Andrew Brandon
        Dennis, I have not dug up any real solid evidence on the colors of the coaches myself except for the following. The original coaches appear to have possibly
        Message 3 of 7 , May 7, 2008
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          Dennis,

          I have not dug up any real solid evidence on the colors of the coaches
          myself except for the following.
          The original coaches appear to have possibly been some shade of yellow
          with contrasting trim (a brown is likely).
          After about the turn of the century I am leaning towards a green,
          however I suspect the green would be similar to what the SP was
          painting their cars at the time. In later years the passenger
          equipment that came from the SP would have been Tuscan as shown in the
          color NCNG video footage if you are lucky enough to have it. Sadly as
          I have put my book on hold for the time being I hadn't gotten around
          to digging up info on the passenger cars, being at work I don't have
          access to my research materials but I will see if I can find anything
          else later this evening.

          Hopefully someone has better insight than I do.

          -Andrew-
        • Dennis Ivison
          Andrew, Thanks once again for your help. What a color range. I d love to have a copy of that video, I ve seen it mentioned here several times. Was it ever done
          Message 4 of 7 , May 8, 2008
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            Andrew,

            Thanks once again for your help. What a color range. I'd love to have
            a copy of that video, I've seen it mentioned here several times. Was
            it ever done on DVD? I've heard that the museum may have copies and
            plan on checking it out on my next trip up from So Cal.

            Dennis

            --- In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Brandon" <andrew.brandon@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Dennis,
            >
            > I have not dug up any real solid evidence on the colors of the
            coaches
            > myself except for the following.
            > The original coaches appear to have possibly been some shade of
            yellow
            > with contrasting trim (a brown is likely).
            > After about the turn of the century I am leaning towards a green,
            > however I suspect the green would be similar to what the SP was
            > painting their cars at the time. In later years the passenger
            > equipment that came from the SP would have been Tuscan as shown in
            the
            > color NCNG video footage if you are lucky enough to have it. Sadly
            as
            > I have put my book on hold for the time being I hadn't gotten around
            > to digging up info on the passenger cars, being at work I don't have
            > access to my research materials but I will see if I can find
            anything
            > else later this evening.
            >
            > Hopefully someone has better insight than I do.
            >
            > -Andrew-
            >
          • Andrew Brandon
            Dennis, I thought I heard rumblings of a possible DVD version, but I haven t heard anything concrete. Here are some stills from the video however.
            Message 5 of 7 , May 8, 2008
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              Dennis,

              I thought I heard rumblings of a possible DVD version, but I haven't
              heard anything concrete.
              Here are some stills from the video however.
              http://community-2.webtv.net/@HH!02!0D!14DE915BE8D5/NCNG/NEVADACOUNTYNARROW/page3.html
              You can see one of the SP cars in the still of Chicago Park, but it is
              sadly in the shade so you can't get a good feel for the color.
              There is a fantastic shot of boxcar on that page in color though.

              NCNG colors can be tough to track down simply because of a few
              factors, the lack of existing paperwork doesn't help so we have to go
              on what Johnny Nolan related to folks over the year and others
              memories or what little documentation we have. On top of this, the
              NCNG was a first class operation for many years before finally giving
              up the "Ghost Of John Kidder" and starting to lose the flair in their
              paint.
              If you take a look at lettering around the turn of the century on
              freight equipment you'll notice that the lettering has an awful lot of
              curls and extravagance to them, even during the Sarah Kidder years we
              see coaches that have fancy borders around their numbers and other
              examples of well cared for passenger equipment. One of the aspects I
              have long admired about the NCNG is the uniqueness to the equipment
              and just how home brewed elements of the operation were. A bit of
              humor I would share with people is that NCNG 5 doesn't really exist,
              its a collection of parts from other NCNG locomotives since #2, 3, 7,
              8 and the Glenbrook have all contributed to parts to her over the
              years, the NCNG at times did everything they could to keep their
              locomotives in service. Johnny Nolan and the rest of the shops are to
              be commended for the fantastic work over the years. With that being
              said, as you build models of equipment watch out for oddities,
              although before the depression this is less noticeable.

              If you don't mind my asking, what scale are you modeling?

              -=Andrew=-

              On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 7:56 PM, Dennis Ivison
              <dennisivison@...> wrote:
              > Andrew,
              >
              > Thanks once again for your help. What a color range. I'd love to have
              > a copy of that video, I've seen it mentioned here several times. Was
              > it ever done on DVD? I've heard that the museum may have copies and
              > plan on checking it out on my next trip up from So Cal.
              >
              > Dennis
              >
              > --- In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Brandon" <andrew.brandon@...>
              > wrote:
              >
              >>
              >> Dennis,
              >>
              >> I have not dug up any real solid evidence on the colors of the
              > coaches
              >> myself except for the following.
              >> The original coaches appear to have possibly been some shade of
              > yellow
              >> with contrasting trim (a brown is likely).
              >> After about the turn of the century I am leaning towards a green,
              >> however I suspect the green would be similar to what the SP was
              >> painting their cars at the time. In later years the passenger
              >> equipment that came from the SP would have been Tuscan as shown in
              > the
              >> color NCNG video footage if you are lucky enough to have it. Sadly
              > as
              >> I have put my book on hold for the time being I hadn't gotten around
              >> to digging up info on the passenger cars, being at work I don't have
              >> access to my research materials but I will see if I can find
              > anything
              >> else later this evening.
              >>
              >> Hopefully someone has better insight than I do.
              >>
              >> -Andrew-
              >>
              >
              >



              --
              -=Andrew Brandon=-
            • Dennis Ivison
              Andrew, My first thought after I decided to move out of N-Scale was Sn3, but I found this scale to be very expensive, in kit form, and difficult to find. Then
              Message 6 of 7 , May 9, 2008
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                Andrew,

                My first thought after I decided to move out of N-Scale was Sn3, but
                I found this scale to be very expensive, in kit form, and difficult
                to find. Then I looked into On3, also expensive and hard to find,
                then a friend showed me On30. After some thought I decided that I
                could live with a 0.10 difference in track scale in a trade off for
                relatively inexpensive equipment and ready availability (there are 3
                LHS here that stock On30).

                I have good drawings of all of the NG's rolling stock except for the
                fruit cars; and the Bachmann stuff matches up close enough for me to
                easily modify them to match NG cars. I'll use the Bachmann flats with
                scratch built car bodies for the fruit cars once I get some drawings
                of them.

                The passenger cars and combines will take a lot more work. The
                Bachmann cars are the right length but have too few windows, so I'll
                have to make new car sides for them.

                The locomotives are a different story, Bachmann has nothing close.
                But, I wasn't able to find anything in the other scales either that
                was a match for the NG. I'm sure if something ever did come available
                in those scales the price would be out of my range. If I ever get the
                ambition to bash the Bachmann's into something close to an NG loco,
                cutting a $200 locomotive is a lot less daunting than an $800 one!

                Dennis



                --- In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Brandon" <andrew.brandon@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Dennis,
                >
                > I thought I heard rumblings of a possible DVD version, but I haven't
                > heard anything concrete.
                > Here are some stills from the video however.
                > http://community-2.webtv.net/@HH!02!0D!
                14DE915BE8D5/NCNG/NEVADACOUNTYNARROW/page3.html
                > You can see one of the SP cars in the still of Chicago Park, but it
                is
                > sadly in the shade so you can't get a good feel for the color.
                > There is a fantastic shot of boxcar on that page in color though.
                >
                > NCNG colors can be tough to track down simply because of a few
                > factors, the lack of existing paperwork doesn't help so we have to
                go
                > on what Johnny Nolan related to folks over the year and others
                > memories or what little documentation we have. On top of this, the
                > NCNG was a first class operation for many years before finally
                giving
                > up the "Ghost Of John Kidder" and starting to lose the flair in
                their
                > paint.
                > If you take a look at lettering around the turn of the century on
                > freight equipment you'll notice that the lettering has an awful lot
                of
                > curls and extravagance to them, even during the Sarah Kidder years
                we
                > see coaches that have fancy borders around their numbers and other
                > examples of well cared for passenger equipment. One of the aspects I
                > have long admired about the NCNG is the uniqueness to the equipment
                > and just how home brewed elements of the operation were. A bit of
                > humor I would share with people is that NCNG 5 doesn't really exist,
                > its a collection of parts from other NCNG locomotives since #2, 3,
                7,
                > 8 and the Glenbrook have all contributed to parts to her over the
                > years, the NCNG at times did everything they could to keep their
                > locomotives in service. Johnny Nolan and the rest of the shops are
                to
                > be commended for the fantastic work over the years. With that being
                > said, as you build models of equipment watch out for oddities,
                > although before the depression this is less noticeable.
                >
                > If you don't mind my asking, what scale are you modeling?
                >
                > -=Andrew=-
                >
                > On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 7:56 PM, Dennis Ivison
                > <dennisivison@...> wrote:
                > > Andrew,
                > >
                > > Thanks once again for your help. What a color range. I'd love to
                have
                > > a copy of that video, I've seen it mentioned here several times.
                Was
                > > it ever done on DVD? I've heard that the museum may have copies
                and
                > > plan on checking it out on my next trip up from So Cal.
                > >
                > > Dennis
                > >
                > > --- In NCNGRR@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Brandon" <andrew.brandon@>
                > > wrote:
                > >
                > >>
                > >> Dennis,
                > >>
                > >> I have not dug up any real solid evidence on the colors of the
                > > coaches
                > >> myself except for the following.
                > >> The original coaches appear to have possibly been some shade of
                > > yellow
                > >> with contrasting trim (a brown is likely).
                > >> After about the turn of the century I am leaning towards a green,
                > >> however I suspect the green would be similar to what the SP was
                > >> painting their cars at the time. In later years the passenger
                > >> equipment that came from the SP would have been Tuscan as shown
                in
                > > the
                > >> color NCNG video footage if you are lucky enough to have it.
                Sadly
                > > as
                > >> I have put my book on hold for the time being I hadn't gotten
                around
                > >> to digging up info on the passenger cars, being at work I don't
                have
                > >> access to my research materials but I will see if I can find
                > > anything
                > >> else later this evening.
                > >>
                > >> Hopefully someone has better insight than I do.
                > >>
                > >> -Andrew-
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > -=Andrew Brandon=-
                >
              • Andrew Brandon
                Dennis, You do have plenty of options when it comes to NCNG in On3/30. A prime example is the Bachmann flatcars, they are quite close in size to NCNG flats.
                Message 7 of 7 , May 9, 2008
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                  Dennis,

                  You do have plenty of options when it comes to NCNG in On3/30. A prime
                  example is the Bachmann flatcars, they are quite close in size to NCNG
                  flats. Originally these cars would have been Carter Bros 24' flats, as
                  the NCNG wore them out they were rebuilt to be 25' long, if you
                  measure, your Bachmann flats are the right length and "close enough"
                  for some quick easy flats. To top that off, the Fruit Cars if I
                  remember correctly are just built on top of flats themselves. Some
                  hunting on ebay will find you plastic kits for San Francisco Cable
                  Cars in O which can be kitbashed into fairly reasonable Calhoun cars.
                  As for locomotives, if you are crafty you can turn a Bachmann 2-6-0
                  into a reasonable model of #2, I would replace the tender however with
                  the tender from the new 4-4-0, the reason being that the 4-4-0 tender
                  appears to be a stock Baldwin tender the same as would be used on #1,
                  2, 3 and 5 in later years. Of course you have the Boxcars from
                  Foothill Model Works as well as the trucks and hardware you'd need for
                  your Bachmann flats.

                  So you see, if you get creative there are a lot of pieces of NCNG
                  equipment that can be built quickly and on the cheap.

                  --
                  -=Andrew Brandon=-
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