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Re: [NCNCA] Re: Menlo Park Grand Prix results

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  • Rcutt555@aol.com
    Lorri...no question your results were perfect and placement of the transponder does matter (for the top 10 finishers). My point is not about the MPGP or your
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 25 10:47 AM
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      Lorri...no question your results were perfect and placement of the transponder does matter (for the top 10 finishers). My point is not about the MPGP or your results, it's about improving the over all "experience" of bike racing. Using what's available to improve a good product and make it a better one.

      Every lap matters to someone, if the data is available, why not share it and grow the bike racing experience? Not all interested parties make it to the actual races.

      RO

      From: "velogirls2002" <Lorri@...>
      Sender: NCNCA@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:32:39 -0000
      To: <NCNCA@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [NCNCA] Re: Menlo Park Grand Prix results

       

      Thanks, Robert! Of course, we all know the only lap that really matters is the last lap.

      There are serious challenges with chip timing and criteriums. Mainly, the placement of the chip is crucial. USAC rules state that the winner is the frontal plane of the wheel/tire that crosses the line first. Since chip timing is not positioned on the wheel, there would be variances based on placement, fork rake, wheel size, etc. Our officials did a great job the old-fashioned way: eyeballs and video cameras. We didn't have a single protest of results all day.

      Lorri

      --- In NCNCA@yahoogroups.com, Rcutt555@... wrote:
      >
      > Thanks Lorri for the MPGP! Sounds like your race was a huge success, congrats to the entire Velo Girls organization!
      >
      > With regard to all the excellent mobile technology...if the NCNCA does EVENTUALLY incorporate "chip timing" or transponders to score our races, with the currently available mobil technology, we would be able to view on the web (in real time) the position of every racer for every lap as they cross the start finish line. (Auto racing has had this technology in place for 15 years).
      >
      > Come on NCNCA...step into the 90's at the minimum.
      >
      > RO
      > Ps...Congrats again Lorri!
      >

    • Rcutt555@aol.com
      Soni... Safety Committee ? How we score races should have zero bearing on how racers conduct themselves while racing. The racers will take risks (or not)
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 25 12:17 PM
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        Soni..."Safety Committee"? How we score races should have zero bearing on how racers conduct themselves while racing. The racers will take risks (or not) based on their own set of standards, not on whether we use manual labor, a camera or an electronic devise attached to a bicycle.

        If a racer, his/her teammates, an un attending coach or family member could track an individual or complete team for every lap, that would enhance the bike racing experience (immensely?). That's some of the benefit of technology.
        From a safety stand point, maybe the afforded data collected could be used to make races safer? And to help identify the problem racers or unsafe situations/conditions?

        Embrace?
        RO

        From: soni andreini poulsen <conejotoo@...>
        Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 12:04:27 -0700
        To: <rcutt555@...>
        Subject: RE: [NCNCA] Re: Menlo Park Grand Prix results

        Last year the safety committee looked into chip timing for criteriums and were very much against it due to the requirements of the systems we had seen to narrow the finish of criteriums.  Didn't appear to us that the benefits were at all worth the risks.
         
        Soni
         

        To: lorri@...; NCNCA@yahoogroups.com
        From: Rcutt555@...
        Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:47:05 +0000
        Subject: Re: [NCNCA] Re: Menlo Park Grand Prix results

         
        Lorri...no question your results were perfect and placement of the transponder does matter (for the top 10 finishers). My point is not about the MPGP or your results, it's about improving the over all "experience" of bike racing. Using what's available to improve a good product and make it a better one.

        Every lap matters to someone, if the data is available, why not share it and grow the bike racing experience? Not all interested parties make it to the actual races.

        RO

        From: "velogirls2002" <Lorri@...>
        Sender: NCNCA@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:32:39 -0000
        To: <NCNCA@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [NCNCA] Re: Menlo Park Grand Prix results

         

        Thanks, Robert! Of course, we all know the only lap that really matters is the last lap.

        There are serious challenges with chip timing and criteriums. Mainly, the placement of the chip is crucial. USAC rules state that the winner is the frontal plane of the wheel/tire that crosses the line first. Since chip timing is not positioned on the wheel, there would be variances based on placement, fork rake, wheel size, etc. Our officials did a great job the old-fashioned way: eyeballs and video cameras. We didn't have a single protest of results all day.

        Lorri

        --- In NCNCA@yahoogroups.com, Rcutt555@... wrote:
        >
        > Thanks Lorri for the MPGP! Sounds like your race was a huge success, congrats to the entire Velo Girls organization!
        >
        > With regard to all the excellent mobile technology...if the NCNCA does EVENTUALLY incorporate "chip timing" or transponders to score our races, with the currently available mobil technology, we would be able to view on the web (in real time) the position of every racer for every lap as they cross the start finish line. (Auto racing has had this technology in place for 15 years).
        >
        > Come on NCNCA...step into the 90's at the minimum.
        >
        > RO
        > Ps...Congrats again Lorri!
        >



      • Ron
        I will share what I saw from last year s Masters Crit Champs. This is just purely data for purpose of accuracy in the arguments of both sides of the issue.
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 25 3:24 PM
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          I will share what I saw from last year's Masters Crit Champs.
          This is just purely data for purpose of accuracy in the arguments of both sides of the issue.

          Yes, we did have to reduce the width of the finish line.
          However, from the announcer's perch I did not see that this was an inherent danger. There was a crash near the finish on the last lap of 1 of the races. 1! That crash was caused by riders and not barricades or finish line width. The barricades were in the same place every lap, they didn't move.
          To point, we expanded the P/1/2/3 field limit on the day to 120 on the request of the riders. ALL 120 riders made it through the finishing shoot without any issue.
          The argument of there being a safety issue really doesn't have any teeth.

          Application in a crit:
          While I also think it would be extremely cool to have lap data broadcast in real time to a website for spectators and teammates, I did not see the chip timing system add anything to the results. In fact, the Finish Lynx camera provided all of the results and was extremely accurate.

          The net/net here is that the test provided two very clear facts/conclusions.
          1. Did not help with results in that specific race format and chip timing would not really add any benefit to cirteriums (save for multiple fields being picked separately).
          2. In and of itself, did not create a safety hazard.

          Note: Even if we had not used the chip timing system, we still would have needed to narrow the finish line in the same way. It was not the chip timing system that forced the narrowing, it was the camera and the finish line arch.

          Warren makes a good point. We need someone to run the thing.
          Not sure what the solution is there.

          Ron

          --- In NCNCA@yahoogroups.com, Rcutt555@... wrote:
          >
          > Soni..."Safety Committee"? How we score races should have zero bearing on how racers conduct themselves while racing. The racers will take risks (or not) based on their own set of standards, not on whether we use manual labor, a camera or an electronic devise attached to a bicycle.
          >
          > If a racer, his/her teammates, an un attending coach or family member could track an individual or complete team for every lap, that would enhance the bike racing experience (immensely?). That's some of the benefit of technology.
          > From a safety stand point, maybe the afforded data collected could be used to make races safer? And to help identify the problem racers or unsafe situations/conditions?
          >
          > Embrace?
          > RO
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: soni andreini poulsen <conejotoo@...>
          > Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 12:04:27
          > To: <rcutt555@...>
          > Subject: RE: [NCNCA] Re: Menlo Park Grand Prix results
          >
          >
          > Last year the safety committee looked into chip timing for criteriums and were very much against it due to the requirements of the systems we had seen to narrow the finish of criteriums. Didn't appear to us that the benefits were at all worth the risks.
          >
          > Soni
          >
          >
          >
          > To: lorri@...; NCNCA@yahoogroups.com
          > From: Rcutt555@...
          > Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:47:05 +0000
          > Subject: Re: [NCNCA] Re: Menlo Park Grand Prix results
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Lorri...no question your results were perfect and placement of the transponder does matter (for the top 10 finishers). My point is not about the MPGP or your results, it's about improving the over all "experience" of bike racing. Using what's available to improve a good product and make it a better one.
          >
          > Every lap matters to someone, if the data is available, why not share it and grow the bike racing experience? Not all interested parties make it to the actual races.
          >
          > RO
          >
          >
          >
          > From: "velogirls2002" <Lorri@...>
          > Sender: NCNCA@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:32:39 -0000
          > To: <NCNCA@yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: [NCNCA] Re: Menlo Park Grand Prix results
          >
          >
          >
          > Thanks, Robert! Of course, we all know the only lap that really matters is the last lap.
          >
          > There are serious challenges with chip timing and criteriums. Mainly, the placement of the chip is crucial. USAC rules state that the winner is the frontal plane of the wheel/tire that crosses the line first. Since chip timing is not positioned on the wheel, there would be variances based on placement, fork rake, wheel size, etc. Our officials did a great job the old-fashioned way: eyeballs and video cameras. We didn't have a single protest of results all day.
          >
          > Lorri
          >
          > --- In NCNCA@yahoogroups.com, Rcutt555@ wrote:
          > >
          > > Thanks Lorri for the MPGP! Sounds like your race was a huge success, congrats to the entire Velo Girls organization!
          > >
          > > With regard to all the excellent mobile technology...if the NCNCA does EVENTUALLY incorporate "chip timing" or transponders to score our races, with the currently available mobil technology, we would be able to view on the web (in real time) the position of every racer for every lap as they cross the start finish line. (Auto racing has had this technology in place for 15 years).
          > >
          > > Come on NCNCA...step into the 90's at the minimum.
          > >
          > > RO
          > > Ps...Congrats again Lorri!
          > >
          >
        • tb_in_sf
          If anyone s interested in joining, the monthly NCNCA meeting is tonite and you can get involved with all of this stuff - on the agenda are next steps with the
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 25 4:52 PM
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            If anyone's interested in joining, the monthly NCNCA meeting is tonite and you can get involved with all of this stuff - on the agenda are next steps with the timing system and the Safety Committee. See a few messages ago for the meeting time/location (San Jose area). I'll post something later in the week about both.

            Best,
            Tad

            NCNCA VP & BOD
            (+ inherited the Safety Committee)

            --- In NCNCA@yahoogroups.com, "Ron" <zronn@...> wrote:
            >
            >
          • Phyllis Olrich
            Ladies, Please consider signing up for the Kern County Women s Stage Race, May 13-15. 4 races in 3 days. I ve done this race at least a dozen times and it is a
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 26 9:07 AM
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              Ladies, 

              Please consider signing up for the Kern County Women's Stage Race, May 13-15. 4 races in 3 days. I've done this race at least a dozen times and it is a wonderful experience. You will never be the same -- it'll bump up your fitness and you will form deep new friendships. Reg numbers are low this year, so hurry. We don't want this classic event to be canceled due to low registration. Here's the link:


              Thanks,

              Phyllis

              Phyllis Olrich
              530.863.3320
              phylliso1@...


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