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RE: [N1MM] Contesting /m es LOTW

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  • n1tangoalpha
    Actually, a fair amount DO request the /M ( or /P etc.) in LoTW, but not all of course. I recommend uploading what the station has sent. If that doesn t lead
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 15, 2013
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      Actually, a fair amount DO request the "/M" ( or /P etc.) in LoTW, but
      not all of course. I recommend uploading what the station has sent. If
      that doesn't lead to a confirmation, then upload the contact with "/M"
      (or without, whichever the case may be). And if that *still* doesn't
      lead to a confirmation, you can email the station (just as you would for
      a paper QSL card).

      The knife has two edges, so to speak: you logging what the station
      sends, and the station obtaining the proper certificate for the call he
      is sending. And, of course, sending the call sign the same way each
      time.

      If anybody has LoTW -specific questions on this, you can contact me
      directly so we don't flood this reflector with non-N1MM stuff.

      73
      Mike N1TA
      (the guy at the LoTW desk)



      -------- Original Message --------
      Subject: [N1MM] Contesting /m es LOTW
      From: DGB <ns9i2016@...>
      Date: Mon, April 15, 2013 10:26 am
      To: N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com

      I do a lot of QSO Party contesting and after a contest is over, I
      convert the MM log's ADIF with AD1C's Adif converter, prior to
      importing
      into DXLab's. I've wound up with many /M in the log. Uploading to LOTW,

      as I do all my contacts, they aren't recognized by Lotw unless the op
      get's a certificate for that operation, and a very small percentage do
      that! Thus many or most of them never get confirmed by LOTW. Some are
      even DX/m.

      What does one do? I could filter out and remove all the /M suffixes
      within DXLab but not sure if that wouldn't open another can of worms.
      I've accumulated over 5000 of the /m stations in the computer log over
      the years out of my 109306 total.

      What do you contesters do?

      TIA 73 de NS9I Dwight or (Tom in the 'tests)
    • DGB
      Wouldn t import directly for N1MM as a lot of the calls contain /OGLE, /PUTN, etc. That really screws the DXCC record keeping up within the logger (don t ask
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 15, 2013
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        Wouldn't import directly for N1MM as a lot of the calls contain /OGLE,
        /PUTN, etc. That really screws the DXCC record keeping up within the
        logger (don't ask how I know).

        Tnx for the reply and further replies can be made off the list to me
        direct if it isn't relevant here.

        73 Dwight NS9I

        On 4/15/2013 9:29 AM, Jim Duncan wrote:
        >
        > Why not just export straight to ADIF from within N1MM? As for the /m
        > contacts it's a problem for LOTW and eQSL both... I wish I had a solution
        > for you on that, Dwight/Tom
        >
        > 73 de Jim, KU0G
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • KE1B
        ... You should do exactly what you are doing. If a station uses a callsign with /M, then THAT is his callsign. (It is also perfectly permissible to operate
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 15, 2013
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          On Apr 15, 2013, at 7:26 AM, DGB wrote:

          > I do a lot of QSO Party contesting and after a contest is over, I
          > convert the MM log's ADIF with AD1C's Adif converter, prior to importing
          > into DXLab's. I've wound up with many /M in the log. Uploading to LOTW,
          > as I do all my contacts, they aren't recognized by Lotw unless the op
          > get's a certificate for that operation, and a very small percentage do
          > that! Thus many or most of them never get confirmed by LOTW. Some are
          > even DX/m.
          >
          > What does one do?

          You should do exactly what you are doing. If a station uses a callsign with /M, then THAT is his callsign. (It is also perfectly permissible to operate mobile without indicating so in the callsign, and then there would be no /M). Log it as it is sent, and upload what is in the log. Same goes for /QRP, /# (operating portable in another or the same district). /P, etc.

          It is the other station's responsibility to obtain a certificate for each callsign that s/he uses. Getting a certificate for /M or /QRP or the like is trivially easy; no documentation needs to be sent. You just make an automated request from the already-authorized base callsign, and you get an automated response with the new certificate.

          Note that you do NOT need a new certificate if you use the same callsign from a different location, unless you append some modifier indicating that. (In the tQSL Cert application, you can create separate profiles for the same callsign used in different locations, so that QSLs reflect the proper grid square, county, CQ Zone, etc.)


          I maintain a zillion certificates for the many callsigns and variants under which I operate:

          KE1B, KE1B/6, KE1B/M, KE1B/QRP, PJ2/KE1B, VP5/KE1B, EA8/KE1B, plus K6MMM and variants (my contest callsign), and a bunch of DX callsigns (9H3MMM, ZF2LL, etc.) All managed from one logging application and one LoTW account.

          Rich KE1B
        • DGB
          Great I ll continue what I m doing, thanks for the explanation Rich. I have WAS on all nine bands, both CW es SSB so the confirmation really don t matter to me
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 15, 2013
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            Great I'll continue what I'm doing, thanks for the explanation Rich.

            I have WAS on all nine bands, both CW es SSB so the confirmation really
            don't matter to me I guess. If the other needs that, they can take a few
            minutes to do the certificate.

            That's always been a pain in the qso parties: /M /P /R /county, etc.,
            and some of the aforementioned, with no suffix at all.

            Tnx again and a special tnx to the N1MM team for this great program!

            ...... 73 de NS9I


            On 4/15/2013 10:18 AM, KE1B wrote:
            >
            >
            > On Apr 15, 2013, at 7:26 AM, DGB wrote:
            >
            > > I do a lot of QSO Party contesting and after a contest is over, I
            > > convert the MM log's ADIF with AD1C's Adif converter, prior to
            > importing
            > > into DXLab's. I've wound up with many /M in the log. Uploading to LOTW,
            > > as I do all my contacts, they aren't recognized by Lotw unless the op
            > > get's a certificate for that operation, and a very small percentage do
            > > that! Thus many or most of them never get confirmed by LOTW. Some are
            > > even DX/m.
            > >
            > > What does one do?
            >
            > You should do exactly what you are doing. If a station uses a callsign
            > with /M, then THAT is his callsign. (It is also perfectly permissible
            > to operate mobile without indicating so in the callsign, and then
            > there would be no /M). Log it as it is sent, and upload what is in the
            > log. Same goes for /QRP, /# (operating portable in another or the same
            > district). /P, etc.
            >
            > It is the other station's responsibility to obtain a certificate for
            > each callsign that s/he uses. Getting a certificate for /M or /QRP or
            > the like is trivially easy; no documentation needs to be sent. You
            > just make an automated request from the already-authorized base
            > callsign, and you get an automated response with the new certificate.
            >
            > Note that you do NOT need a new certificate if you use the same
            > callsign from a different location, unless you append some modifier
            > indicating that. (In the tQSL Cert application, you can create
            > separate profiles for the same callsign used in different locations,
            > so that QSLs reflect the proper grid square, county, CQ Zone, etc.)
            >
            > I maintain a zillion certificates for the many callsigns and variants
            > under which I operate:
            >
            > KE1B, KE1B/6, KE1B/M, KE1B/QRP, PJ2/KE1B, VP5/KE1B, EA8/KE1B, plus
            > K6MMM and variants (my contest callsign), and a bunch of DX callsigns
            > (9H3MMM, ZF2LL, etc.) All managed from one logging application and one
            > LoTW account.
            >
            > Rich KE1B
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • ba4alc
            Hello Nick, Thanks for your suggestion. I figured out that I was using the version 13.3.1. In that situation both my version and the BY-WAPC-DX BY-WAPC-BY
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 15, 2013
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              Hello Nick,

              Thanks for your suggestion. I figured out that I was using the version 13.3.1. In that situation both my version and the BY-WAPC-DX BY-WAPC-BY version was not ok. They fixed this bug in ver 13.4.0 and I changed to the latest 13.4.2 after reading your message, they are all ok. Also thanks G4OGB who report this bug before I found it.

              Jack/BA4ALC

              --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, "Nick, NA3M" <na3m@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Jack,
              >
              > I just tried BY_WAPC_DX.udc located at
              > http://n1mm.hamdocs.com/tiki-list_file_gallery.php?galleryId=18 and it looks
              > like it works fine.
              > I think the problem with your version is: it has Country Prefix as first
              > multiplier and Sect as second multiplier. Try to reverse then and see if
              > this helps.
              >
              > But if BY_WAPC_DX.udc published at http://n1mm.hamdocs.com/ works I would
              > suggest using it and not creating a duplicate UDC file for the same contest.
              >
              > Nick NA3M
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > This weekend will be the BY-wapc contest. We offered an UDC module last
              > > year. It was fine. We can input either province shortcut or serial No. in
              > the
              > > Exch field. When I use it in the new N1mm, I can't input serial numbers.
              > The
              > > program told me that " missing/ Invalid Section!"
              > >
              > > Following is the udc
              > > [Author]
              > > AuthorName=Jack
              > > Callsign=BA4ALC
              > > Email=ba4alc@...
              > > [File]
              > > Revision =1.0.1
              > > LastUpdate =2012-2-22
              > > Description =80,40,20,15,10m SSB/CW,Serial/Province(ľÀ¼Î§³¡DX¾ºÈü)
              > > [Contest]
              > > Name =MULANDXC
              > > DisplayName =MULAN WAPC
              > > CabrilloName =MULAN WAPC
              > > Mode =BOTH
              > > DupeType =3
              > > Multiplier1Name =CountryPrefix
              > > Multiplier2Name =Sect
              > > Multiplier3Name =
              > > Period =1
              > > PointsPerContact =BY,10,VR,10,BV,10,XX9,10,BS7,10,BV9P,10,
              > > MyCountry,1,SameContinent,3,Othercontinent,5
              > > ShowMyCountryStations =
              > > ShowWarcBands =
              > > ZoneType =
              > > MultSqlString =country
              > > MultSqlString2 =Section
              > > MultSqlString3 =
              > > MultWindowType =CNprov
              > > IsMultPer =1
              > > MultiplierBands =
              > > CQZoneMultContest =
              > > NumMults =2
              > > BonusPoints =/MM, 5, /AM, 5
              > > QsoErrorString =Any
              > > EntryWindowInfo =SNTText, 450, RCVText, 450, Exchange1Text, 500
              > > FrameText =Snt Rcv RcvExch LogInfo =SentReport, 500, ReceiveReport, 500,
              > > Exchange1, 600, IsMultiplier1,500, IsMultiplier2,500,
              > > CountryPrefix,500,Points, 500 DefaultContestExchange =SH CabrilloFormat =
              > > 99 CabrilloString =SNT, 4, SentExch, 4, CallSign, 15, RCV, 4, Exchange1,
              > 4
              > > GenericPrintString = SNT, 4, SentExch, 4, CallSign, 15, RCV, 4, Exchange1,
              > 4
              > > GenericPrintStringHeader =Date Time Freq Mode MyCall Sent
              > > Exchsent Call Rcv ExchRcv
              > > IsWorkable =Any
              > > SpecialInstructions =
              > > DupeSqlString =
              > > StartOfContest =
              > > EndOfContest =
              > > IsMultPer =
              > > MinimumOffTime =
              > > UsesWAECountries =
              > > SetSentTimeForContact =
              > > ScoreSummaryMultNames =Cty, Prov
              > > WebAddress =http://www.mulandxc.org/?page_id=2
              > > DigitalModeSqlString =
              > > MultipleSessions =
              > > ResetMultsEverySession =
              > > CabrilloVersion =2.0
              > > BonusPoints2 =
              > > DoNotCountMeAsMult =False
              > > DoNotCountMeAsMult2 =
              > > DoNotCountMeAsMult3 =
              >
            • ki7mt
              I ve had the same issues with DX contacts as well, one resent example, last week with FK8DD/m. I logged him with /m as that s what he was sending, but it
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 15, 2013
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                I've had the same issues with DX contacts as well, one resent example, last week with FK8DD/m. I logged him with /m as that's what he was sending, but it failed to match in LoTW, set up another w/out /m and got the match. Only way I knew to do this was he also sent an eQSL w/out /m.

                I've had loads of issues with QSP CFM's also. All be it painful for the /m, I think the proper way is to set up a certificate for each county being worked and drop the /m /PXXX /COUNTY and process the Q's by county. I doubt this will happen, but I'm certainly looking for a simple solution as I'm down to about 200 hundred counties for USA-CA cfm via LoTW (even though they don't honor this award yet)

                73's Greg, KI7MT


                --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, DGB <ns9i2016@...> wrote:
                >
                > Wouldn't import directly for N1MM as a lot of the calls contain /OGLE,
                > /PUTN, etc. That really screws the DXCC record keeping up within the
                > logger (don't ask how I know).
                >
                > Tnx for the reply and further replies can be made off the list to me
                > direct if it isn't relevant here.
                >
                > 73 Dwight NS9I
                >
                > On 4/15/2013 9:29 AM, Jim Duncan wrote:
                > >
                > > Why not just export straight to ADIF from within N1MM? As for the /m
                > > contacts it's a problem for LOTW and eQSL both... I wish I had a solution
                > > for you on that, Dwight/Tom
                > >
                > > 73 de Jim, KU0G
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Phil Irons
                Hi Dwight... I m sorry, but I don t understand *why* you are logging the call with /OGLE, /PUTN etc. If you re using N1MM as the contest logger, the input
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 15, 2013
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                  Hi Dwight...

                  I'm sorry, but I don't understand *why* you are logging the call with
                  /OGLE, /PUTN etc. If you're using N1MM as the contest logger, the input
                  window has provision for the call and the county, whether that's a three or
                  four letter abbreviation. If he's sending the county as part of his call
                  *in the exchange*, then in my not-so-humble opinion, he's WRONG!

                  If the exchange is completed correctly, then you should be able to import
                  the ADIF of your contest log directly into DXKeeper.

                  73,

                  Phil/VE1BVD


                  On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 12:13 PM, DGB <ns9i2016@...> wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  > Wouldn't import directly for N1MM as a lot of the calls contain /OGLE,
                  > /PUTN, etc. That really screws the DXCC record keeping up within the
                  > logger (don't ask how I know).
                  >
                  > Tnx for the reply and further replies can be made off the list to me
                  > direct if it isn't relevant here.
                  >
                  > 73 Dwight NS9I
                  >
                  >
                  > On 4/15/2013 9:29 AM, Jim Duncan wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Why not just export straight to ADIF from within N1MM? As for the /m
                  > > contacts it's a problem for LOTW and eQSL both... I wish I had a solution
                  > > for you on that, Dwight/Tom
                  > >
                  > > 73 de Jim, KU0G
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  --
                  Phil & Anne Irons
                  Sydney, Nova Scotia


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • DGB
                  Tnx for the reply Phil It does make it easier when scanning the band for a new one. Otherwise if they call cq with just /m, you have to hang around till he
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 15, 2013
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                    Tnx for the reply Phil

                    It does make it easier when scanning the band for a new one. Otherwise
                    if they call cq with just /m, you have to hang around till he works
                    someone to find out if he is in a different or new county then the last
                    time u worked him. Take a lot more time!

                    On 4/15/2013 3:23 PM, Phil Irons wrote:
                    > Hi Dwight...
                    >
                    > I'm sorry, but I don't understand *why* you are logging the call with
                    > /OGLE, /PUTN etc. If you're using N1MM as the contest logger, the input
                    > window has provision for the call and the county, whether that's a three or
                    > four letter abbreviation. If he's sending the county as part of his call
                    > *in the exchange*, then in my not-so-humble opinion, he's WRO
                    >
                    > If the exchange is completed correctly, then you should be able to import
                    > the ADIF of your contest log directly into DXKeeper.


                    I do import it directly, after running it thru the AD1C filter to get
                    them all set as /M.



                    >
                    > 73,
                    >
                    > Phil/VE1BVD


                    So be it I guess, no magic!

                    73 Dwight NS9I


                    >
                    >
                    > On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 12:13 PM, DGB <ns9i2016@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> **
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Wouldn't import directly for N1MM as a lot of the calls contain /OGLE,
                    >> /PUTN, etc. That really screws the DXCC record keeping up within the
                    >> logger (don't ask how I know).
                    >>
                    >> Tnx for the reply and further replies can be made off the list to me
                    >> direct if it isn't relevant here.
                    >>
                    >> 73 Dwight NS9I
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> On 4/15/2013 9:29 AM, Jim Duncan wrote:
                    >>> Why not just export straight to ADIF from within N1MM? As for the /m
                    >>> contacts it's a problem for LOTW and eQSL both... I wish I had a solution
                    >>> for you on that, Dwight/Tom
                    >>>
                    >>> 73 de Jim, KU0G
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                  • Jim Brown
                    Some of what has been written in this thread is simply WRONG. I do NOT know details of what LOTW does with suffixes, but I am sure of the following: Once any
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 15, 2013
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                      Some of what has been written in this thread is simply WRONG. I do NOT know details of what LOTW does with suffixes, but I am sure of the following:

                      Once any user is registered as an LOTW user, that user can set up MANY QTHs with TQSL, and certify any given upload with that location. In the US, that location can include the zones, state, the county, and the grid. There is NOTHING to apply for, all we have to is break the log down into whatever geographical divisions we choose and send those separate log segments to LOTW one at a time.


                      I think it would appropriate to either study the LOTW site or contact the League to ask them what the LOTW rules are with respect suffixes. 


                      AND -- things may have changed in the last year or so, but I've worked a LOT of state QSO parties and chased lots of mobiles around dozens of counties, mostly on CW, and my experience has been that they do send, and I do log, the three- or four-letter county designator for them. AND N1MM keeps track of those suffixes and show them in the Check window and the log so I know whether or not I've worked them. 

                      There is a nice utility (that I think I might have found referenced from the N1MM site) that takes the QSO party state abbreviations and converts them to an ADIF that includes the real county names. I've used it several times, and it works quite well if you're careful to follow the directions. After I've done this, I've stripped the suffixes and uploaded the log to LOTW. 

                      There's another potential ambiguity with respect to county-line operations where, for most contests the mobile sends two complete exchanges, and we log it in N1MM as two separate QSOs. I don't know what LOTW will do with two QSOs with the same stations at the same time on the same frequency.


                      Another sad part of my experience is that I almost never get LOTW confirmations of any these mobiles. I remember at least one exception from the NEQP, perhaps K1KI, from whom I did get LOTW QSLs.


                      73, Jim K9YC


                      ________________________________

                      What does one do? I could filter out and remove all the /M suffixes
                      within DXLab but not sure if that wouldn't open another can of worms.
                      I've accumulated over 5000 of the /m stations in the computer log over
                      the years out of my 109306 total.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Phil Irons
                      From my point of view, it is far more annoying to get an electronic confirmation of a QSO party contact from someone who was operating /p or /m and didn t say
                      Message 10 of 15 , Apr 16, 2013
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                        From my point of view, it is far more annoying to get an electronic
                        confirmation of a QSO party contact from someone who was operating /p or /m
                        and didn't say so, and then QSLs using his HOME QTH (& county)!

                        Example: (ALL calls here are fictitious, just made up to illustrate my
                        point) W4ZZZ lives in Fulton county, GA. I work him as W4ZZZ, but he
                        gives me Gwinnett County as his QTH. I get an electronic QSL from him
                        which shows his home QTH (in Fulton Co.) This is of no use to me, as he
                        wasn't in Fulton Co. when I worked him, and he can't be bothered to show
                        his temporary QTH in Gwinnett. BUMMER!!!

                        73,

                        Phil/VE1BVD


                        On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 12:34 AM, Jim Brown <jwbro@...> wrote:

                        > **
                        >
                        >
                        > Some of what has been written in this thread is simply WRONG. I do NOT
                        > know details of what LOTW does with suffixes, but I am sure of the
                        > following:
                        >
                        > Once any user is registered as an LOTW user, that user can set up MANY
                        > QTHs with TQSL, and certify any given upload with that location. In the US,
                        > that location can include the zones, state, the county, and the grid. There
                        > is NOTHING to apply for, all we have to is break the log down into whatever
                        > geographical divisions we choose and send those separate log segments to
                        > LOTW one at a time.
                        >
                        > I think it would appropriate to either study the LOTW site or contact the
                        > League to ask them what the LOTW rules are with respect suffixes.
                        >
                        > AND -- things may have changed in the last year or so, but I've worked a
                        > LOT of state QSO parties and chased lots of mobiles around dozens of
                        > counties, mostly on CW, and my experience has been that they do send, and I
                        > do log, the three- or four-letter county designator for them. AND N1MM
                        > keeps track of those suffixes and show them in the Check window and the log
                        > so I know whether or not I've worked them.
                        >
                        > There is a nice utility (that I think I might have found referenced from
                        > the N1MM site) that takes the QSO party state abbreviations and converts
                        > them to an ADIF that includes the real county names. I've used it several
                        > times, and it works quite well if you're careful to follow the directions.
                        > After I've done this, I've stripped the suffixes and uploaded the log to
                        > LOTW.
                        >
                        > There's another potential ambiguity with respect to county-line operations
                        > where, for most contests the mobile sends two complete exchanges, and we
                        > log it in N1MM as two separate QSOs. I don't know what LOTW will do with
                        > two QSOs with the same stations at the same time on the same frequency.
                        >
                        > Another sad part of my experience is that I almost never get LOTW
                        > confirmations of any these mobiles. I remember at least one exception from
                        > the NEQP, perhaps K1KI, from whom I did get LOTW QSLs.
                        >
                        > 73, Jim K9YC
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        >
                        >
                        > What does one do? I could filter out and remove all the /M suffixes
                        > within DXLab but not sure if that wouldn't open another can of worms.
                        > I've accumulated over 5000 of the /m stations in the computer log over
                        > the years out of my 109306 total.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        --
                        Phil & Anne Irons
                        Sydney, Nova Scotia


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Chuck Milam, N9KY
                        ... Even worse when it s not just a county, but whole states away. Georgia station working in Minnesota, for example. Purely hypothetical, of course. --
                        Message 11 of 15 , Apr 16, 2013
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                          On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Phil Irons <ve1bvd@...> wrote:

                          > Example: (ALL calls here are fictitious, just made up to illustrate my
                          > point) W4ZZZ lives in Fulton county, GA. I work him as W4ZZZ, but he
                          > gives me Gwinnett County as his QTH. I get an electronic QSL from him
                          > which shows his home QTH (in Fulton Co.) This is of no use to me, as he
                          > wasn't in Fulton Co. when I worked him, and he can't be bothered to show
                          > his temporary QTH in Gwinnett.
                          >

                          Even worse when it's not just a county, but whole states away. Georgia
                          station working in Minnesota, for example. Purely hypothetical, of
                          course.

                          --
                          Chuck Milam, N9KY
                          N9KY@...


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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