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Re: PTT CW Stay On.

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  • ve3iay
    Joe, It already works this way. When a CW function key message is sent, PTT stays enabled for the entire duration of the message, regardless of how many
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 1, 2012
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      Joe,

      It already works this way. When a CW function key message is sent, PTT stays enabled for the entire duration of the message, regardless of how many embedded spaces there are. Paddle input and Ctrl-K window input drops PTT between characters based on the Winkeyer's tail time or hang time setting, but function-key messages do not, at least not here.

      73,
      Rich VE3KI

      --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe <nss@...> wrote:
      >
      > Is there a way to using N1MM and Winkeyer USB Ver. 2.10
      >
      > I have always been using the "VOX" on the radio to control the xmit/recv
      > status of the rig. But also never have been really happy with it either.
      > Hang time long enough that it doesn't keep dropping out during an
      > exchange, But then at times when it is set this way, I loose some of the
      > replied exhange if the other station jumps back really fast and my vox
      > hang time it a tad too long.
      >
      > I just connected the PTT control from the Winkeyer to the rear PTT
      > connection on this rig, (Kenwood TS-430S) And it is much better control.
      > BUT some situations the xmit status is still not quite right. And I'm
      > trying to get this all set up for every possible situation.
      >
      > Like in the programmable "F" memory keys, is there a command I could put
      > in the front of the message that says key transmitter, and one at the
      > end that says un key?
      >
      > For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
      > means open PTT
      >
      > like right now I have a typical exchange like in the up-coming Wisconsin
      > qso party a simple exchange SAU
      >
      > 99% of the time it is fine, or even the club call W9ET I already have
      > some special spacing because of the call I usually have it set to send
      > with some extra spaces, I get far less repeat requests when I send W9 E
      > T instead of W9ET with the xtra spaces inserted.
      >
      > And I have one button made with a like 1/2 speed call and one with 1/2
      > speed exchange for those that ask for slower. not a problem except for
      > the when using the old vox way the transmitter would drop in and out all
      > the time. And now using the Winkeyer PTT control the same thing
      > happens. Got it fast enough to come back as fast as possible after the
      > message is done sending so I do not miss the reply, but not so fast that
      > it's constantly changing states.
      >
      > So is there a command that I can place in the string that puts it in
      > transmit mode at the beginning and recv at the end of the string being
      > sent. and no matter how fast or slow the stuff inside is sent the
      > transmitter stays in transmit state til lt the other command tells it to
      > stop,
      >
      > Like
      >
      > CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
      >
      > When sent slow enough to keep it from dropping out all the time,
      > sometimes this is so long that as I said I miss first parts of reply's.
      >
      > But say those special charaters, as described below,
      > For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
      > means open PTT is used like this
      >
      > { CQ CQ TEST de W9 E T }
      >
      > so { closes the PTT the messages are sent at any speed doesn't matter
      > and it stays in transmit mode till the } comes through then it opens
      > the PTT.
      >
      > is there a way to do this?
      >
      > Joe WB9SBD
      > --
      >
      > The Original Rolling Ball Clock
      > Idle Tyme
      > Idle-Tyme.com
      > http://www.idle-tyme.com
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Barry N1EU
      If you re WinKey PTT is not being asserted for the entire message without break, then you might want to update your WinKey firmware. There was a WinKey
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 1, 2012
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        If you're WinKey PTT is not being asserted for the entire message without
        break, then you might want to update your WinKey firmware. There was a
        WinKey firmware fix a while back to keep PTT asserted for the entire
        message without breaking. I believe they sell updated ROM's that will just
        plug in.

        Barry N1EU

        On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Joe <nss@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > Is there a way to using N1MM and Winkeyer USB Ver. 2.10
        >
        > I have always been using the "VOX" on the radio to control the xmit/recv
        > status of the rig. But also never have been really happy with it either.
        > Hang time long enough that it doesn't keep dropping out during an
        > exchange, But then at times when it is set this way, I loose some of the
        > replied exhange if the other station jumps back really fast and my vox
        > hang time it a tad too long.
        >
        > I just connected the PTT control from the Winkeyer to the rear PTT
        > connection on this rig, (Kenwood TS-430S) And it is much better control.
        > BUT some situations the xmit status is still not quite right. And I'm
        > trying to get this all set up for every possible situation.
        >
        > Like in the programmable "F" memory keys, is there a command I could put
        > in the front of the message that says key transmitter, and one at the
        > end that says un key?
        >
        > For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
        > means open PTT
        >
        > like right now I have a typical exchange like in the up-coming Wisconsin
        > qso party a simple exchange SAU
        >
        > 99% of the time it is fine, or even the club call W9ET I already have
        > some special spacing because of the call I usually have it set to send
        > with some extra spaces, I get far less repeat requests when I send W9 E
        > T instead of W9ET with the xtra spaces inserted.
        >
        > And I have one button made with a like 1/2 speed call and one with 1/2
        > speed exchange for those that ask for slower. not a problem except for
        > the when using the old vox way the transmitter would drop in and out all
        > the time. And now using the Winkeyer PTT control the same thing
        > happens. Got it fast enough to come back as fast as possible after the
        > message is done sending so I do not miss the reply, but not so fast that
        > it's constantly changing states.
        >
        > So is there a command that I can place in the string that puts it in
        > transmit mode at the beginning and recv at the end of the string being
        > sent. and no matter how fast or slow the stuff inside is sent the
        > transmitter stays in transmit state til lt the other command tells it to
        > stop,
        >
        > Like
        >
        > CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
        >
        > When sent slow enough to keep it from dropping out all the time,
        > sometimes this is so long that as I said I miss first parts of reply's.
        >
        > But say those special charaters, as described below,
        > For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
        > means open PTT is used like this
        >
        > { CQ CQ TEST de W9 E T }
        >
        > so { closes the PTT the messages are sent at any speed doesn't matter
        > and it stays in transmit mode till the } comes through then it opens
        > the PTT.
        >
        > is there a way to do this?
        >
        > Joe WB9SBD
        > --
        >
        > The Original Rolling Ball Clock
        > Idle Tyme
        > Idle-Tyme.com
        > http://www.idle-tyme.com
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Joe
        Please explain that differently, what is happening there. Because say with this string, CQ CQ Test de W9 E T If I m running about 25 WPM all is OK, but if I
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 1, 2012
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          Please explain that differently, what is happening there.

          Because say with this string,

          CQ CQ Test de W9 E T

          If I'm running about 25 WPM all is OK, but if I drop down to 20, the rig goes back to receive several times in that string

          Joe WB9SBD




          The Original Rolling Ball Clock
          Idle Tyme
          Idle-Tyme.com
          http://www.idle-tyme.com

          On 3/1/2012 11:35 AM, ve3iay wrote:
          > Joe,
          >
          > It already works this way. When a CW function key message is sent, PTT stays enabled for the entire duration of the message, regardless of how many embedded spaces there are. Paddle input and Ctrl-K window input drops PTT between characters based on the Winkeyer's tail time or hang time setting, but function-key messages do not, at least not here.
          >
          > 73,
          > Rich VE3KI
          >
          > --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe<nss@...> wrote:
          >> Is there a way to using N1MM and Winkeyer USB Ver. 2.10
          >>
          >> I have always been using the "VOX" on the radio to control the xmit/recv
          >> status of the rig. But also never have been really happy with it either.
          >> Hang time long enough that it doesn't keep dropping out during an
          >> exchange, But then at times when it is set this way, I loose some of the
          >> replied exhange if the other station jumps back really fast and my vox
          >> hang time it a tad too long.
          >>
          >> I just connected the PTT control from the Winkeyer to the rear PTT
          >> connection on this rig, (Kenwood TS-430S) And it is much better control.
          >> BUT some situations the xmit status is still not quite right. And I'm
          >> trying to get this all set up for every possible situation.
          >>
          >> Like in the programmable "F" memory keys, is there a command I could put
          >> in the front of the message that says key transmitter, and one at the
          >> end that says un key?
          >>
          >> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
          >> means open PTT
          >>
          >> like right now I have a typical exchange like in the up-coming Wisconsin
          >> qso party a simple exchange SAU
          >>
          >> 99% of the time it is fine, or even the club call W9ET I already have
          >> some special spacing because of the call I usually have it set to send
          >> with some extra spaces, I get far less repeat requests when I send W9 E
          >> T instead of W9ET with the xtra spaces inserted.
          >>
          >> And I have one button made with a like 1/2 speed call and one with 1/2
          >> speed exchange for those that ask for slower. not a problem except for
          >> the when using the old vox way the transmitter would drop in and out all
          >> the time. And now using the Winkeyer PTT control the same thing
          >> happens. Got it fast enough to come back as fast as possible after the
          >> message is done sending so I do not miss the reply, but not so fast that
          >> it's constantly changing states.
          >>
          >> So is there a command that I can place in the string that puts it in
          >> transmit mode at the beginning and recv at the end of the string being
          >> sent. and no matter how fast or slow the stuff inside is sent the
          >> transmitter stays in transmit state til lt the other command tells it to
          >> stop,
          >>
          >> Like
          >>
          >> CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
          >>
          >> When sent slow enough to keep it from dropping out all the time,
          >> sometimes this is so long that as I said I miss first parts of reply's.
          >>
          >> But say those special charaters, as described below,
          >> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
          >> means open PTT is used like this
          >>
          >> { CQ CQ TEST de W9 E T }
          >>
          >> so { closes the PTT the messages are sent at any speed doesn't matter
          >> and it stays in transmit mode till the } comes through then it opens
          >> the PTT.
          >>
          >> is there a way to do this?
          >>
          >> Joe WB9SBD
          >> --
          >>
          >> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
          >> Idle Tyme
          >> Idle-Tyme.com
          >> http://www.idle-tyme.com
          >>
          >>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
          > N1MMLogger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Pete Smith N4ZR
          Rich is right, Joe - if you are sending manually, then you may have such dropouts when slowing way down. If you send from an Fkey then you will not. 73, Pete
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 1, 2012
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            Rich is right, Joe - if you are sending manually, then you may have such
            dropouts when slowing way down. If you send from an Fkey then you will not.

            73, Pete N4ZR
            The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
            The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
            spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
            arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000


            On 3/1/2012 3:46 PM, Joe wrote:
            > Please explain that differently, what is happening there.
            >
            > Because say with this string,
            >
            > CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
            >
            > If I'm running about 25 WPM all is OK, but if I drop down to 20, the rig goes back to receive several times in that string
            >
            > Joe WB9SBD
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > The Original Rolling Ball Clock
            > Idle Tyme
            > Idle-Tyme.com
            > http://www.idle-tyme.com
            >
            > On 3/1/2012 11:35 AM, ve3iay wrote:
            >> Joe,
            >>
            >> It already works this way. When a CW function key message is sent, PTT stays enabled for the entire duration of the message, regardless of how many embedded spaces there are. Paddle input and Ctrl-K window input drops PTT between characters based on the Winkeyer's tail time or hang time setting, but function-key messages do not, at least not here.
            >>
            >> 73,
            >> Rich VE3KI
            >>
            >> --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe<nss@...> wrote:
            >>> Is there a way to using N1MM and Winkeyer USB Ver. 2.10
            >>>
            >>> I have always been using the "VOX" on the radio to control the xmit/recv
            >>> status of the rig. But also never have been really happy with it either.
            >>> Hang time long enough that it doesn't keep dropping out during an
            >>> exchange, But then at times when it is set this way, I loose some of the
            >>> replied exhange if the other station jumps back really fast and my vox
            >>> hang time it a tad too long.
            >>>
            >>> I just connected the PTT control from the Winkeyer to the rear PTT
            >>> connection on this rig, (Kenwood TS-430S) And it is much better control.
            >>> BUT some situations the xmit status is still not quite right. And I'm
            >>> trying to get this all set up for every possible situation.
            >>>
            >>> Like in the programmable "F" memory keys, is there a command I could put
            >>> in the front of the message that says key transmitter, and one at the
            >>> end that says un key?
            >>>
            >>> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
            >>> means open PTT
            >>>
            >>> like right now I have a typical exchange like in the up-coming Wisconsin
            >>> qso party a simple exchange SAU
            >>>
            >>> 99% of the time it is fine, or even the club call W9ET I already have
            >>> some special spacing because of the call I usually have it set to send
            >>> with some extra spaces, I get far less repeat requests when I send W9 E
            >>> T instead of W9ET with the xtra spaces inserted.
            >>>
            >>> And I have one button made with a like 1/2 speed call and one with 1/2
            >>> speed exchange for those that ask for slower. not a problem except for
            >>> the when using the old vox way the transmitter would drop in and out all
            >>> the time. And now using the Winkeyer PTT control the same thing
            >>> happens. Got it fast enough to come back as fast as possible after the
            >>> message is done sending so I do not miss the reply, but not so fast that
            >>> it's constantly changing states.
            >>>
            >>> So is there a command that I can place in the string that puts it in
            >>> transmit mode at the beginning and recv at the end of the string being
            >>> sent. and no matter how fast or slow the stuff inside is sent the
            >>> transmitter stays in transmit state til lt the other command tells it to
            >>> stop,
            >>>
            >>> Like
            >>>
            >>> CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
            >>>
            >>> When sent slow enough to keep it from dropping out all the time,
            >>> sometimes this is so long that as I said I miss first parts of reply's.
            >>>
            >>> But say those special charaters, as described below,
            >>> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
            >>> means open PTT is used like this
            >>>
            >>> { CQ CQ TEST de W9 E T }
            >>>
            >>> so { closes the PTT the messages are sent at any speed doesn't matter
            >>> and it stays in transmit mode till the } comes through then it opens
            >>> the PTT.
            >>>
            >>> is there a way to do this?
            >>>
            >>> Joe WB9SBD
            >>> --
            >>>
            >>> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
            >>> Idle Tyme
            >>> Idle-Tyme.com
            >>> http://www.idle-tyme.com
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>>
            >>
            >>
            >> ------------------------------------
            >>
            >> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
            >> N1MMLogger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >>
            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
            > N1MMLogger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • ve3iay
            I believe you said you have a Winkeyer - which version? I have two here. One is version 1.0, the other is version 2.3 . Using the version 1.0, I can send a
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 1, 2012
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              I believe you said you have a Winkeyer - which version?

              I have two here. One is version 1.0, the other is version 2.3 .

              Using the version 1.0, I can send a string with what appears to be an arbitrarily long gap in it, e.g. 20 consecutive inter-word spaces at 10 wpm - that's several seconds - and it does not drop PTT.

              The version 2.3 is less tolerant; it looks to me as though it can only take a gap of a couple of seconds before the Winkeyer throws an error condition - that is, it can only tolerate 5 consecutive space characters at 10 wpm; 6 consecutive spaces at 10 wpm gives it fits - but at 20 wpm, anything less than about 10 consecutive spaces between characters is too short to cause a problem, and PTT does not drop.

              Barry N1EU pointed out that one or more of the intermediate versions of Winkeyer (2.0 to 2.2, perhaps?) did drop PTT during long pauses in sent messages. Now that he mentions it, I think I can recall this happening before I upgraded to the latest version a year or so ago. If you have one of these versions, perhaps you might want to upgrade the chip to to version 2.3 .

              73,
              Rich VE3KI


              --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe <nss@...> wrote:
              >
              > Please explain that differently, what is happening there.
              >
              > Because say with this string,
              >
              > CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
              >
              > If I'm running about 25 WPM all is OK, but if I drop down to 20, the rig goes back to receive several times in that string
              >
              > Joe WB9SBD
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > The Original Rolling Ball Clock
              > Idle Tyme
              > Idle-Tyme.com
              > http://www.idle-tyme.com
              >
              > On 3/1/2012 11:35 AM, ve3iay wrote:
              > > Joe,
              > >
              > > It already works this way. When a CW function key message is sent, PTT stays enabled for the entire duration of the message, regardless of how many embedded spaces there are. Paddle input and Ctrl-K window input drops PTT between characters based on the Winkeyer's tail time or hang time setting, but function-key messages do not, at least not here.
              > >
              > > 73,
              > > Rich VE3KI
              > >
              > > --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe<nss@> wrote:
              > >> Is there a way to using N1MM and Winkeyer USB Ver. 2.10
              > >>
              > >> I have always been using the "VOX" on the radio to control the xmit/recv
              > >> status of the rig. But also never have been really happy with it either.
              > >> Hang time long enough that it doesn't keep dropping out during an
              > >> exchange, But then at times when it is set this way, I loose some of the
              > >> replied exhange if the other station jumps back really fast and my vox
              > >> hang time it a tad too long.
              > >>
              > >> I just connected the PTT control from the Winkeyer to the rear PTT
              > >> connection on this rig, (Kenwood TS-430S) And it is much better control.
              > >> BUT some situations the xmit status is still not quite right. And I'm
              > >> trying to get this all set up for every possible situation.
              > >>
              > >> Like in the programmable "F" memory keys, is there a command I could put
              > >> in the front of the message that says key transmitter, and one at the
              > >> end that says un key?
              > >>
              > >> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
              > >> means open PTT
              > >>
              > >> like right now I have a typical exchange like in the up-coming Wisconsin
              > >> qso party a simple exchange SAU
              > >>
              > >> 99% of the time it is fine, or even the club call W9ET I already have
              > >> some special spacing because of the call I usually have it set to send
              > >> with some extra spaces, I get far less repeat requests when I send W9 E
              > >> T instead of W9ET with the xtra spaces inserted.
              > >>
              > >> And I have one button made with a like 1/2 speed call and one with 1/2
              > >> speed exchange for those that ask for slower. not a problem except for
              > >> the when using the old vox way the transmitter would drop in and out all
              > >> the time. And now using the Winkeyer PTT control the same thing
              > >> happens. Got it fast enough to come back as fast as possible after the
              > >> message is done sending so I do not miss the reply, but not so fast that
              > >> it's constantly changing states.
              > >>
              > >> So is there a command that I can place in the string that puts it in
              > >> transmit mode at the beginning and recv at the end of the string being
              > >> sent. and no matter how fast or slow the stuff inside is sent the
              > >> transmitter stays in transmit state til lt the other command tells it to
              > >> stop,
              > >>
              > >> Like
              > >>
              > >> CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
              > >>
              > >> When sent slow enough to keep it from dropping out all the time,
              > >> sometimes this is so long that as I said I miss first parts of reply's.
              > >>
              > >> But say those special charaters, as described below,
              > >> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
              > >> means open PTT is used like this
              > >>
              > >> { CQ CQ TEST de W9 E T }
              > >>
              > >> so { closes the PTT the messages are sent at any speed doesn't matter
              > >> and it stays in transmit mode till the } comes through then it opens
              > >> the PTT.
              > >>
              > >> is there a way to do this?
              > >>
              > >> Joe WB9SBD
              > >> --
              > >>
              > >> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
              > >> Idle Tyme
              > >> Idle-Tyme.com
              > >> http://www.idle-tyme.com
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
              > > N1MMLogger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • ve3iay
              ...and if you are using Winkeyer version 2.0-2.2, perhaps you can alleviate the problem by using an increased tail time or hang time parameter in the Winkeyer
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 1, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                ...and if you are using Winkeyer version 2.0-2.2, perhaps you can alleviate the problem by using an increased tail time or hang time parameter in the Winkeyer setup. Tail time can be set as long as 2.5 seconds, or you can set tail time to zero and adjust hang time to 2 letterspaces. This latter choice only works with Winkeyer versions before 2.3; in version 2.3, hang time only works on paddle input.

                73,
                Rich VE3KI


                --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, "ve3iay" <ve3ki@...> wrote:
                >
                > I believe you said you have a Winkeyer - which version?
                >
                > I have two here. One is version 1.0, the other is version 2.3 .
                >
                > Using the version 1.0, I can send a string with what appears to be an arbitrarily long gap in it, e.g. 20 consecutive inter-word spaces at 10 wpm - that's several seconds - and it does not drop PTT.
                >
                > The version 2.3 is less tolerant; it looks to me as though it can only take a gap of a couple of seconds before the Winkeyer throws an error condition - that is, it can only tolerate 5 consecutive space characters at 10 wpm; 6 consecutive spaces at 10 wpm gives it fits - but at 20 wpm, anything less than about 10 consecutive spaces between characters is too short to cause a problem, and PTT does not drop.
                >
                > Barry N1EU pointed out that one or more of the intermediate versions of Winkeyer (2.0 to 2.2, perhaps?) did drop PTT during long pauses in sent messages. Now that he mentions it, I think I can recall this happening before I upgraded to the latest version a year or so ago. If you have one of these versions, perhaps you might want to upgrade the chip to to version 2.3 .
                >
                > 73,
                > Rich VE3KI
                >
                >
                > --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe <nss@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Please explain that differently, what is happening there.
                > >
                > > Because say with this string,
                > >
                > > CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
                > >
                > > If I'm running about 25 WPM all is OK, but if I drop down to 20, the rig goes back to receive several times in that string
                > >
                > > Joe WB9SBD
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                > > Idle Tyme
                > > Idle-Tyme.com
                > > http://www.idle-tyme.com
                > >
                > > On 3/1/2012 11:35 AM, ve3iay wrote:
                > > > Joe,
                > > >
                > > > It already works this way. When a CW function key message is sent, PTT stays enabled for the entire duration of the message, regardless of how many embedded spaces there are. Paddle input and Ctrl-K window input drops PTT between characters based on the Winkeyer's tail time or hang time setting, but function-key messages do not, at least not here.
                > > >
                > > > 73,
                > > > Rich VE3KI
                > > >
                > > > --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe<nss@> wrote:
                > > >> Is there a way to using N1MM and Winkeyer USB Ver. 2.10
                > > >>
                > > >> I have always been using the "VOX" on the radio to control the xmit/recv
                > > >> status of the rig. But also never have been really happy with it either.
                > > >> Hang time long enough that it doesn't keep dropping out during an
                > > >> exchange, But then at times when it is set this way, I loose some of the
                > > >> replied exhange if the other station jumps back really fast and my vox
                > > >> hang time it a tad too long.
                > > >>
                > > >> I just connected the PTT control from the Winkeyer to the rear PTT
                > > >> connection on this rig, (Kenwood TS-430S) And it is much better control.
                > > >> BUT some situations the xmit status is still not quite right. And I'm
                > > >> trying to get this all set up for every possible situation.
                > > >>
                > > >> Like in the programmable "F" memory keys, is there a command I could put
                > > >> in the front of the message that says key transmitter, and one at the
                > > >> end that says un key?
                > > >>
                > > >> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
                > > >> means open PTT
                > > >>
                > > >> like right now I have a typical exchange like in the up-coming Wisconsin
                > > >> qso party a simple exchange SAU
                > > >>
                > > >> 99% of the time it is fine, or even the club call W9ET I already have
                > > >> some special spacing because of the call I usually have it set to send
                > > >> with some extra spaces, I get far less repeat requests when I send W9 E
                > > >> T instead of W9ET with the xtra spaces inserted.
                > > >>
                > > >> And I have one button made with a like 1/2 speed call and one with 1/2
                > > >> speed exchange for those that ask for slower. not a problem except for
                > > >> the when using the old vox way the transmitter would drop in and out all
                > > >> the time. And now using the Winkeyer PTT control the same thing
                > > >> happens. Got it fast enough to come back as fast as possible after the
                > > >> message is done sending so I do not miss the reply, but not so fast that
                > > >> it's constantly changing states.
                > > >>
                > > >> So is there a command that I can place in the string that puts it in
                > > >> transmit mode at the beginning and recv at the end of the string being
                > > >> sent. and no matter how fast or slow the stuff inside is sent the
                > > >> transmitter stays in transmit state til lt the other command tells it to
                > > >> stop,
                > > >>
                > > >> Like
                > > >>
                > > >> CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
                > > >>
                > > >> When sent slow enough to keep it from dropping out all the time,
                > > >> sometimes this is so long that as I said I miss first parts of reply's.
                > > >>
                > > >> But say those special charaters, as described below,
                > > >> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
                > > >> means open PTT is used like this
                > > >>
                > > >> { CQ CQ TEST de W9 E T }
                > > >>
                > > >> so { closes the PTT the messages are sent at any speed doesn't matter
                > > >> and it stays in transmit mode till the } comes through then it opens
                > > >> the PTT.
                > > >>
                > > >> is there a way to do this?
                > > >>
                > > >> Joe WB9SBD
                > > >> --
                > > >>
                > > >> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                > > >> Idle Tyme
                > > >> Idle-Tyme.com
                > > >> http://www.idle-tyme.com
                > > >>
                > > >>
                > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >>
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ------------------------------------
                > > >
                > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                > > > N1MMLogger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > >
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
              • Joe
                Mine must be in the software / firmware situation then as mentioned in another reply. because I other to test if the ptt works at all with the paddles,, all
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 1, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  Mine must be in the software / firmware situation then as mentioned in
                  another reply. because I other to test if the ptt works at all with the
                  paddles,, all this testing has been with N1MM running and either
                  pressing the actual "F" keys or via a mouse click in the window with the
                  buttons.

                  Joe WB9SBD

                  The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                  Idle Tyme
                  Idle-Tyme.com
                  http://www.idle-tyme.com

                  On 3/1/2012 4:16 PM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
                  > Rich is right, Joe - if you are sending manually, then you may have such
                  > dropouts when slowing way down. If you send from an Fkey then you will not.
                  >
                  > 73, Pete N4ZR
                  > The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
                  > The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
                  > spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
                  > arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
                  >
                  >
                  > On 3/1/2012 3:46 PM, Joe wrote:
                  >> Please explain that differently, what is happening there.
                  >>
                  >> Because say with this string,
                  >>
                  >> CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
                  >>
                  >> If I'm running about 25 WPM all is OK, but if I drop down to 20, the rig goes back to receive several times in that string
                  >>
                  >> Joe WB9SBD
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                  >> Idle Tyme
                  >> Idle-Tyme.com
                  >> http://www.idle-tyme.com
                  >>
                  >> On 3/1/2012 11:35 AM, ve3iay wrote:
                  >>> Joe,
                  >>>
                  >>> It already works this way. When a CW function key message is sent, PTT stays enabled for the entire duration of the message, regardless of how many embedded spaces there are. Paddle input and Ctrl-K window input drops PTT between characters based on the Winkeyer's tail time or hang time setting, but function-key messages do not, at least not here.
                  >>>
                  >>> 73,
                  >>> Rich VE3KI
                  >>>
                  >>> --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe<nss@...> wrote:
                  >>>> Is there a way to using N1MM and Winkeyer USB Ver. 2.10
                  >>>>
                  >>>> I have always been using the "VOX" on the radio to control the xmit/recv
                  >>>> status of the rig. But also never have been really happy with it either.
                  >>>> Hang time long enough that it doesn't keep dropping out during an
                  >>>> exchange, But then at times when it is set this way, I loose some of the
                  >>>> replied exhange if the other station jumps back really fast and my vox
                  >>>> hang time it a tad too long.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> I just connected the PTT control from the Winkeyer to the rear PTT
                  >>>> connection on this rig, (Kenwood TS-430S) And it is much better control.
                  >>>> BUT some situations the xmit status is still not quite right. And I'm
                  >>>> trying to get this all set up for every possible situation.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Like in the programmable "F" memory keys, is there a command I could put
                  >>>> in the front of the message that says key transmitter, and one at the
                  >>>> end that says un key?
                  >>>>
                  >>>> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
                  >>>> means open PTT
                  >>>>
                  >>>> like right now I have a typical exchange like in the up-coming Wisconsin
                  >>>> qso party a simple exchange SAU
                  >>>>
                  >>>> 99% of the time it is fine, or even the club call W9ET I already have
                  >>>> some special spacing because of the call I usually have it set to send
                  >>>> with some extra spaces, I get far less repeat requests when I send W9 E
                  >>>> T instead of W9ET with the xtra spaces inserted.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> And I have one button made with a like 1/2 speed call and one with 1/2
                  >>>> speed exchange for those that ask for slower. not a problem except for
                  >>>> the when using the old vox way the transmitter would drop in and out all
                  >>>> the time. And now using the Winkeyer PTT control the same thing
                  >>>> happens. Got it fast enough to come back as fast as possible after the
                  >>>> message is done sending so I do not miss the reply, but not so fast that
                  >>>> it's constantly changing states.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> So is there a command that I can place in the string that puts it in
                  >>>> transmit mode at the beginning and recv at the end of the string being
                  >>>> sent. and no matter how fast or slow the stuff inside is sent the
                  >>>> transmitter stays in transmit state til lt the other command tells it to
                  >>>> stop,
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Like
                  >>>>
                  >>>> CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
                  >>>>
                  >>>> When sent slow enough to keep it from dropping out all the time,
                  >>>> sometimes this is so long that as I said I miss first parts of reply's.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> But say those special charaters, as described below,
                  >>>> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
                  >>>> means open PTT is used like this
                  >>>>
                  >>>> { CQ CQ TEST de W9 E T }
                  >>>>
                  >>>> so { closes the PTT the messages are sent at any speed doesn't matter
                  >>>> and it stays in transmit mode till the } comes through then it opens
                  >>>> the PTT.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> is there a way to do this?
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Joe WB9SBD
                  >>>> --
                  >>>>
                  >>>> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                  >>>> Idle Tyme
                  >>>> Idle-Tyme.com
                  >>>> http://www.idle-tyme.com
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>>>
                  >>>
                  >>> ------------------------------------
                  >>>
                  >>> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                  >>> N1MMLogger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >>>
                  >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ------------------------------------
                  >>
                  >> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                  >> N1MMLogger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >>
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                  > N1MMLogger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Joe
                  I am beginning to think this is indeed the problem, I have emailed K1EL but no reply so far. I have either 2.10 or 2.2 not ure. Joe WB9SBD The Original Rolling
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 1, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I am beginning to think this is indeed the problem, I have emailed K1EL
                    but no reply so far. I have either 2.10 or 2.2 not ure.

                    Joe WB9SBD

                    The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                    Idle Tyme
                    Idle-Tyme.com
                    http://www.idle-tyme.com

                    On 3/1/2012 4:43 PM, ve3iay wrote:
                    > I believe you said you have a Winkeyer - which version?
                    >
                    > I have two here. One is version 1.0, the other is version 2.3 .
                    >
                    > Using the version 1.0, I can send a string with what appears to be an arbitrarily long gap in it, e.g. 20 consecutive inter-word spaces at 10 wpm - that's several seconds - and it does not drop PTT.
                    >
                    > The version 2.3 is less tolerant; it looks to me as though it can only take a gap of a couple of seconds before the Winkeyer throws an error condition - that is, it can only tolerate 5 consecutive space characters at 10 wpm; 6 consecutive spaces at 10 wpm gives it fits - but at 20 wpm, anything less than about 10 consecutive spaces between characters is too short to cause a problem, and PTT does not drop.
                    >
                    > Barry N1EU pointed out that one or more of the intermediate versions of Winkeyer (2.0 to 2.2, perhaps?) did drop PTT during long pauses in sent messages. Now that he mentions it, I think I can recall this happening before I upgraded to the latest version a year or so ago. If you have one of these versions, perhaps you might want to upgrade the chip to to version 2.3 .
                    >
                    > 73,
                    > Rich VE3KI
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe<nss@...> wrote:
                    >> Please explain that differently, what is happening there.
                    >>
                    >> Because say with this string,
                    >>
                    >> CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
                    >>
                    >> If I'm running about 25 WPM all is OK, but if I drop down to 20, the rig goes back to receive several times in that string
                    >>
                    >> Joe WB9SBD
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                    >> Idle Tyme
                    >> Idle-Tyme.com
                    >> http://www.idle-tyme.com
                    >>
                    >> On 3/1/2012 11:35 AM, ve3iay wrote:
                    >>> Joe,
                    >>>
                    >>> It already works this way. When a CW function key message is sent, PTT stays enabled for the entire duration of the message, regardless of how many embedded spaces there are. Paddle input and Ctrl-K window input drops PTT between characters based on the Winkeyer's tail time or hang time setting, but function-key messages do not, at least not here.
                    >>>
                    >>> 73,
                    >>> Rich VE3KI
                    >>>
                    >>> --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe<nss@> wrote:
                    >>>> Is there a way to using N1MM and Winkeyer USB Ver. 2.10
                    >>>>
                    >>>> I have always been using the "VOX" on the radio to control the xmit/recv
                    >>>> status of the rig. But also never have been really happy with it either.
                    >>>> Hang time long enough that it doesn't keep dropping out during an
                    >>>> exchange, But then at times when it is set this way, I loose some of the
                    >>>> replied exhange if the other station jumps back really fast and my vox
                    >>>> hang time it a tad too long.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> I just connected the PTT control from the Winkeyer to the rear PTT
                    >>>> connection on this rig, (Kenwood TS-430S) And it is much better control.
                    >>>> BUT some situations the xmit status is still not quite right. And I'm
                    >>>> trying to get this all set up for every possible situation.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Like in the programmable "F" memory keys, is there a command I could put
                    >>>> in the front of the message that says key transmitter, and one at the
                    >>>> end that says un key?
                    >>>>
                    >>>> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
                    >>>> means open PTT
                    >>>>
                    >>>> like right now I have a typical exchange like in the up-coming Wisconsin
                    >>>> qso party a simple exchange SAU
                    >>>>
                    >>>> 99% of the time it is fine, or even the club call W9ET I already have
                    >>>> some special spacing because of the call I usually have it set to send
                    >>>> with some extra spaces, I get far less repeat requests when I send W9 E
                    >>>> T instead of W9ET with the xtra spaces inserted.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> And I have one button made with a like 1/2 speed call and one with 1/2
                    >>>> speed exchange for those that ask for slower. not a problem except for
                    >>>> the when using the old vox way the transmitter would drop in and out all
                    >>>> the time. And now using the Winkeyer PTT control the same thing
                    >>>> happens. Got it fast enough to come back as fast as possible after the
                    >>>> message is done sending so I do not miss the reply, but not so fast that
                    >>>> it's constantly changing states.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> So is there a command that I can place in the string that puts it in
                    >>>> transmit mode at the beginning and recv at the end of the string being
                    >>>> sent. and no matter how fast or slow the stuff inside is sent the
                    >>>> transmitter stays in transmit state til lt the other command tells it to
                    >>>> stop,
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Like
                    >>>>
                    >>>> CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
                    >>>>
                    >>>> When sent slow enough to keep it from dropping out all the time,
                    >>>> sometimes this is so long that as I said I miss first parts of reply's.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> But say those special charaters, as described below,
                    >>>> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
                    >>>> means open PTT is used like this
                    >>>>
                    >>>> { CQ CQ TEST de W9 E T }
                    >>>>
                    >>>> so { closes the PTT the messages are sent at any speed doesn't matter
                    >>>> and it stays in transmit mode till the } comes through then it opens
                    >>>> the PTT.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> is there a way to do this?
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Joe WB9SBD
                    >>>> --
                    >>>>
                    >>>> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                    >>>> Idle Tyme
                    >>>> Idle-Tyme.com
                    >>>> http://www.idle-tyme.com
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> ------------------------------------
                    >>>
                    >>> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                    >>> N1MMLogger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >>>
                    >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                    > N1MMLogger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Joe
                    Yes I can do that and have to do that for now, but then i m no better off than when I was just using vox. Long enough hang time to keep drop outs from
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 1, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Yes I can do that and have to do that for now, but then i'm no better
                      off than when I was just using vox.

                      Long enough hang time to keep drop outs from happening,

                      BUT

                      then it's sometimes too long and quick on a gun answerer i miss the
                      first part of the exchange.

                      Joe WB9SBD

                      The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                      Idle Tyme
                      Idle-Tyme.com
                      http://www.idle-tyme.com

                      On 3/1/2012 4:55 PM, ve3iay wrote:
                      > ...and if you are using Winkeyer version 2.0-2.2, perhaps you can alleviate the problem by using an increased tail time or hang time parameter in the Winkeyer setup. Tail time can be set as long as 2.5 seconds, or you can set tail time to zero and adjust hang time to 2 letterspaces. This latter choice only works with Winkeyer versions before 2.3; in version 2.3, hang time only works on paddle input.
                      >
                      > 73,
                      > Rich VE3KI
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, "ve3iay"<ve3ki@...> wrote:
                      >> I believe you said you have a Winkeyer - which version?
                      >>
                      >> I have two here. One is version 1.0, the other is version 2.3 .
                      >>
                      >> Using the version 1.0, I can send a string with what appears to be an arbitrarily long gap in it, e.g. 20 consecutive inter-word spaces at 10 wpm - that's several seconds - and it does not drop PTT.
                      >>
                      >> The version 2.3 is less tolerant; it looks to me as though it can only take a gap of a couple of seconds before the Winkeyer throws an error condition - that is, it can only tolerate 5 consecutive space characters at 10 wpm; 6 consecutive spaces at 10 wpm gives it fits - but at 20 wpm, anything less than about 10 consecutive spaces between characters is too short to cause a problem, and PTT does not drop.
                      >>
                      >> Barry N1EU pointed out that one or more of the intermediate versions of Winkeyer (2.0 to 2.2, perhaps?) did drop PTT during long pauses in sent messages. Now that he mentions it, I think I can recall this happening before I upgraded to the latest version a year or so ago. If you have one of these versions, perhaps you might want to upgrade the chip to to version 2.3 .
                      >>
                      >> 73,
                      >> Rich VE3KI
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe<nss@> wrote:
                      >>> Please explain that differently, what is happening there.
                      >>>
                      >>> Because say with this string,
                      >>>
                      >>> CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
                      >>>
                      >>> If I'm running about 25 WPM all is OK, but if I drop down to 20, the rig goes back to receive several times in that string
                      >>>
                      >>> Joe WB9SBD
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                      >>> Idle Tyme
                      >>> Idle-Tyme.com
                      >>> http://www.idle-tyme.com
                      >>>
                      >>> On 3/1/2012 11:35 AM, ve3iay wrote:
                      >>>> Joe,
                      >>>>
                      >>>> It already works this way. When a CW function key message is sent, PTT stays enabled for the entire duration of the message, regardless of how many embedded spaces there are. Paddle input and Ctrl-K window input drops PTT between characters based on the Winkeyer's tail time or hang time setting, but function-key messages do not, at least not here.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> 73,
                      >>>> Rich VE3KI
                      >>>>
                      >>>> --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe<nss@> wrote:
                      >>>>> Is there a way to using N1MM and Winkeyer USB Ver. 2.10
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> I have always been using the "VOX" on the radio to control the xmit/recv
                      >>>>> status of the rig. But also never have been really happy with it either.
                      >>>>> Hang time long enough that it doesn't keep dropping out during an
                      >>>>> exchange, But then at times when it is set this way, I loose some of the
                      >>>>> replied exhange if the other station jumps back really fast and my vox
                      >>>>> hang time it a tad too long.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> I just connected the PTT control from the Winkeyer to the rear PTT
                      >>>>> connection on this rig, (Kenwood TS-430S) And it is much better control.
                      >>>>> BUT some situations the xmit status is still not quite right. And I'm
                      >>>>> trying to get this all set up for every possible situation.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> Like in the programmable "F" memory keys, is there a command I could put
                      >>>>> in the front of the message that says key transmitter, and one at the
                      >>>>> end that says un key?
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
                      >>>>> means open PTT
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> like right now I have a typical exchange like in the up-coming Wisconsin
                      >>>>> qso party a simple exchange SAU
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> 99% of the time it is fine, or even the club call W9ET I already have
                      >>>>> some special spacing because of the call I usually have it set to send
                      >>>>> with some extra spaces, I get far less repeat requests when I send W9 E
                      >>>>> T instead of W9ET with the xtra spaces inserted.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> And I have one button made with a like 1/2 speed call and one with 1/2
                      >>>>> speed exchange for those that ask for slower. not a problem except for
                      >>>>> the when using the old vox way the transmitter would drop in and out all
                      >>>>> the time. And now using the Winkeyer PTT control the same thing
                      >>>>> happens. Got it fast enough to come back as fast as possible after the
                      >>>>> message is done sending so I do not miss the reply, but not so fast that
                      >>>>> it's constantly changing states.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> So is there a command that I can place in the string that puts it in
                      >>>>> transmit mode at the beginning and recv at the end of the string being
                      >>>>> sent. and no matter how fast or slow the stuff inside is sent the
                      >>>>> transmitter stays in transmit state til lt the other command tells it to
                      >>>>> stop,
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> Like
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> When sent slow enough to keep it from dropping out all the time,
                      >>>>> sometimes this is so long that as I said I miss first parts of reply's.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> But say those special charaters, as described below,
                      >>>>> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
                      >>>>> means open PTT is used like this
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> { CQ CQ TEST de W9 E T }
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> so { closes the PTT the messages are sent at any speed doesn't matter
                      >>>>> and it stays in transmit mode till the } comes through then it opens
                      >>>>> the PTT.
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> is there a way to do this?
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> Joe WB9SBD
                      >>>>> --
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                      >>>>> Idle Tyme
                      >>>>> Idle-Tyme.com
                      >>>>> http://www.idle-tyme.com
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>> ------------------------------------
                      >>>>
                      >>>> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                      >>>> N1MMLogger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>
                      >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                      > N1MMLogger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • ve3iay
                      It definitely sounds as if you want the version 2.3 chip. You can order it from . 73, Rich VE3KI
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 1, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        It definitely sounds as if you want the version 2.3 chip. You can order it from <http://k1el.tripod.com/Winkeyer23.html> .

                        73,
                        Rich VE3KI


                        --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe <nss@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Yes I can do that and have to do that for now, but then i'm no better
                        > off than when I was just using vox.
                        >
                        > Long enough hang time to keep drop outs from happening,
                        >
                        > BUT
                        >
                        > then it's sometimes too long and quick on a gun answerer i miss the
                        > first part of the exchange.
                        >
                        > Joe WB9SBD
                        >
                        > The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                        > Idle Tyme
                        > Idle-Tyme.com
                        > http://www.idle-tyme.com
                        >
                        > On 3/1/2012 4:55 PM, ve3iay wrote:
                        > > ...and if you are using Winkeyer version 2.0-2.2, perhaps you can alleviate the problem by using an increased tail time or hang time parameter in the Winkeyer setup. Tail time can be set as long as 2.5 seconds, or you can set tail time to zero and adjust hang time to 2 letterspaces. This latter choice only works with Winkeyer versions before 2.3; in version 2.3, hang time only works on paddle input.
                        > >
                        > > 73,
                        > > Rich VE3KI
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, "ve3iay"<ve3ki@> wrote:
                        > >> I believe you said you have a Winkeyer - which version?
                        > >>
                        > >> I have two here. One is version 1.0, the other is version 2.3 .
                        > >>
                        > >> Using the version 1.0, I can send a string with what appears to be an arbitrarily long gap in it, e.g. 20 consecutive inter-word spaces at 10 wpm - that's several seconds - and it does not drop PTT.
                        > >>
                        > >> The version 2.3 is less tolerant; it looks to me as though it can only take a gap of a couple of seconds before the Winkeyer throws an error condition - that is, it can only tolerate 5 consecutive space characters at 10 wpm; 6 consecutive spaces at 10 wpm gives it fits - but at 20 wpm, anything less than about 10 consecutive spaces between characters is too short to cause a problem, and PTT does not drop.
                        > >>
                        > >> Barry N1EU pointed out that one or more of the intermediate versions of Winkeyer (2.0 to 2.2, perhaps?) did drop PTT during long pauses in sent messages. Now that he mentions it, I think I can recall this happening before I upgraded to the latest version a year or so ago. If you have one of these versions, perhaps you might want to upgrade the chip to to version 2.3 .
                        > >>
                        > >> 73,
                        > >> Rich VE3KI
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe<nss@> wrote:
                        > >>> Please explain that differently, what is happening there.
                        > >>>
                        > >>> Because say with this string,
                        > >>>
                        > >>> CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
                        > >>>
                        > >>> If I'm running about 25 WPM all is OK, but if I drop down to 20, the rig goes back to receive several times in that string
                        > >>>
                        > >>> Joe WB9SBD
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                        > >>> Idle Tyme
                        > >>> Idle-Tyme.com
                        > >>> http://www.idle-tyme.com
                        > >>>
                        > >>> On 3/1/2012 11:35 AM, ve3iay wrote:
                        > >>>> Joe,
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>> It already works this way. When a CW function key message is sent, PTT stays enabled for the entire duration of the message, regardless of how many embedded spaces there are. Paddle input and Ctrl-K window input drops PTT between characters based on the Winkeyer's tail time or hang time setting, but function-key messages do not, at least not here.
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>> 73,
                        > >>>> Rich VE3KI
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>> --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe<nss@> wrote:
                        > >>>>> Is there a way to using N1MM and Winkeyer USB Ver. 2.10
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> I have always been using the "VOX" on the radio to control the xmit/recv
                        > >>>>> status of the rig. But also never have been really happy with it either.
                        > >>>>> Hang time long enough that it doesn't keep dropping out during an
                        > >>>>> exchange, But then at times when it is set this way, I loose some of the
                        > >>>>> replied exhange if the other station jumps back really fast and my vox
                        > >>>>> hang time it a tad too long.
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> I just connected the PTT control from the Winkeyer to the rear PTT
                        > >>>>> connection on this rig, (Kenwood TS-430S) And it is much better control.
                        > >>>>> BUT some situations the xmit status is still not quite right. And I'm
                        > >>>>> trying to get this all set up for every possible situation.
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> Like in the programmable "F" memory keys, is there a command I could put
                        > >>>>> in the front of the message that says key transmitter, and one at the
                        > >>>>> end that says un key?
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
                        > >>>>> means open PTT
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> like right now I have a typical exchange like in the up-coming Wisconsin
                        > >>>>> qso party a simple exchange SAU
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> 99% of the time it is fine, or even the club call W9ET I already have
                        > >>>>> some special spacing because of the call I usually have it set to send
                        > >>>>> with some extra spaces, I get far less repeat requests when I send W9 E
                        > >>>>> T instead of W9ET with the xtra spaces inserted.
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> And I have one button made with a like 1/2 speed call and one with 1/2
                        > >>>>> speed exchange for those that ask for slower. not a problem except for
                        > >>>>> the when using the old vox way the transmitter would drop in and out all
                        > >>>>> the time. And now using the Winkeyer PTT control the same thing
                        > >>>>> happens. Got it fast enough to come back as fast as possible after the
                        > >>>>> message is done sending so I do not miss the reply, but not so fast that
                        > >>>>> it's constantly changing states.
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> So is there a command that I can place in the string that puts it in
                        > >>>>> transmit mode at the beginning and recv at the end of the string being
                        > >>>>> sent. and no matter how fast or slow the stuff inside is sent the
                        > >>>>> transmitter stays in transmit state til lt the other command tells it to
                        > >>>>> stop,
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> Like
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> When sent slow enough to keep it from dropping out all the time,
                        > >>>>> sometimes this is so long that as I said I miss first parts of reply's.
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> But say those special charaters, as described below,
                        > >>>>> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
                        > >>>>> means open PTT is used like this
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> { CQ CQ TEST de W9 E T }
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> so { closes the PTT the messages are sent at any speed doesn't matter
                        > >>>>> and it stays in transmit mode till the } comes through then it opens
                        > >>>>> the PTT.
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> is there a way to do this?
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> Joe WB9SBD
                        > >>>>> --
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                        > >>>>> Idle Tyme
                        > >>>>> Idle-Tyme.com
                        > >>>>> http://www.idle-tyme.com
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >>>>>
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>> ------------------------------------
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                        > >>>> N1MMLogger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>>
                        > >>>
                        > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >>>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------------------------------
                        > >
                        > > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                        > > N1MMLogger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Joe Subich, W4TV
                        ... However, version 2.3 now treats a space as a character (sent from the computer) and holds the PTT output during that space. Versions 2.0 - 2.2 did not
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 1, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          > This latter choice only works with Winkeyer versions before 2.3; in
                          > version 2.3, hang time only works on paddle input.

                          However, version 2.3 now treats a space as a character (sent from the
                          computer) and holds the PTT output during that space. Versions 2.0 -
                          2.2 did not consider the space as a valid character and dropped PTT
                          during the F-key macros.

                          73,

                          ... Joe, W4TV


                          On 3/1/2012 5:55 PM, ve3iay wrote:
                          > ...and if you are using Winkeyer version 2.0-2.2, perhaps you can alleviate the problem by using an increased tail time or hang time parameter in the Winkeyer setup. Tail time can be set as long as 2.5 seconds, or you can set tail time to zero and adjust hang time to 2 letterspaces. This latter choice only works with Winkeyer versions before 2.3; in version 2.3, hang time only works on paddle input.
                          >
                          > 73,
                          > Rich VE3KI
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, "ve3iay"<ve3ki@...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >> I believe you said you have a Winkeyer - which version?
                          >>
                          >> I have two here. One is version 1.0, the other is version 2.3 .
                          >>
                          >> Using the version 1.0, I can send a string with what appears to be an arbitrarily long gap in it, e.g. 20 consecutive inter-word spaces at 10 wpm - that's several seconds - and it does not drop PTT.
                          >>
                          >> The version 2.3 is less tolerant; it looks to me as though it can only take a gap of a couple of seconds before the Winkeyer throws an error condition - that is, it can only tolerate 5 consecutive space characters at 10 wpm; 6 consecutive spaces at 10 wpm gives it fits - but at 20 wpm, anything less than about 10 consecutive spaces between characters is too short to cause a problem, and PTT does not drop.
                          >>
                          >> Barry N1EU pointed out that one or more of the intermediate versions of Winkeyer (2.0 to 2.2, perhaps?) did drop PTT during long pauses in sent messages. Now that he mentions it, I think I can recall this happening before I upgraded to the latest version a year or so ago. If you have one of these versions, perhaps you might want to upgrade the chip to to version 2.3 .
                          >>
                          >> 73,
                          >> Rich VE3KI
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe<nss@> wrote:
                          >>>
                          >>> Please explain that differently, what is happening there.
                          >>>
                          >>> Because say with this string,
                          >>>
                          >>> CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
                          >>>
                          >>> If I'm running about 25 WPM all is OK, but if I drop down to 20, the rig goes back to receive several times in that string
                          >>>
                          >>> Joe WB9SBD
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                          >>> Idle Tyme
                          >>> Idle-Tyme.com
                          >>> http://www.idle-tyme.com
                          >>>
                          >>> On 3/1/2012 11:35 AM, ve3iay wrote:
                          >>>> Joe,
                          >>>>
                          >>>> It already works this way. When a CW function key message is sent, PTT stays enabled for the entire duration of the message, regardless of how many embedded spaces there are. Paddle input and Ctrl-K window input drops PTT between characters based on the Winkeyer's tail time or hang time setting, but function-key messages do not, at least not here.
                          >>>>
                          >>>> 73,
                          >>>> Rich VE3KI
                          >>>>
                          >>>> --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe<nss@> wrote:
                          >>>>> Is there a way to using N1MM and Winkeyer USB Ver. 2.10
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> I have always been using the "VOX" on the radio to control the xmit/recv
                          >>>>> status of the rig. But also never have been really happy with it either.
                          >>>>> Hang time long enough that it doesn't keep dropping out during an
                          >>>>> exchange, But then at times when it is set this way, I loose some of the
                          >>>>> replied exhange if the other station jumps back really fast and my vox
                          >>>>> hang time it a tad too long.
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> I just connected the PTT control from the Winkeyer to the rear PTT
                          >>>>> connection on this rig, (Kenwood TS-430S) And it is much better control.
                          >>>>> BUT some situations the xmit status is still not quite right. And I'm
                          >>>>> trying to get this all set up for every possible situation.
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> Like in the programmable "F" memory keys, is there a command I could put
                          >>>>> in the front of the message that says key transmitter, and one at the
                          >>>>> end that says un key?
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
                          >>>>> means open PTT
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> like right now I have a typical exchange like in the up-coming Wisconsin
                          >>>>> qso party a simple exchange SAU
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> 99% of the time it is fine, or even the club call W9ET I already have
                          >>>>> some special spacing because of the call I usually have it set to send
                          >>>>> with some extra spaces, I get far less repeat requests when I send W9 E
                          >>>>> T instead of W9ET with the xtra spaces inserted.
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> And I have one button made with a like 1/2 speed call and one with 1/2
                          >>>>> speed exchange for those that ask for slower. not a problem except for
                          >>>>> the when using the old vox way the transmitter would drop in and out all
                          >>>>> the time. And now using the Winkeyer PTT control the same thing
                          >>>>> happens. Got it fast enough to come back as fast as possible after the
                          >>>>> message is done sending so I do not miss the reply, but not so fast that
                          >>>>> it's constantly changing states.
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> So is there a command that I can place in the string that puts it in
                          >>>>> transmit mode at the beginning and recv at the end of the string being
                          >>>>> sent. and no matter how fast or slow the stuff inside is sent the
                          >>>>> transmitter stays in transmit state til lt the other command tells it to
                          >>>>> stop,
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> Like
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> When sent slow enough to keep it from dropping out all the time,
                          >>>>> sometimes this is so long that as I said I miss first parts of reply's.
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> But say those special charaters, as described below,
                          >>>>> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
                          >>>>> means open PTT is used like this
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> { CQ CQ TEST de W9 E T }
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> so { closes the PTT the messages are sent at any speed doesn't matter
                          >>>>> and it stays in transmit mode till the } comes through then it opens
                          >>>>> the PTT.
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> is there a way to do this?
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> Joe WB9SBD
                          >>>>> --
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                          >>>>> Idle Tyme
                          >>>>> Idle-Tyme.com
                          >>>>> http://www.idle-tyme.com
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>> ------------------------------------
                          >>>>
                          >>>> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                          >>>> N1MMLogger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >>>>
                          >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                          > N1MMLogger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • ve3iay
                          Exactly.
                          Message 12 of 13 , Mar 1, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Exactly.

                            --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Subich, W4TV" <lists@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > > This latter choice only works with Winkeyer versions before 2.3; in
                            > > version 2.3, hang time only works on paddle input.
                            >
                            > However, version 2.3 now treats a space as a character (sent from the
                            > computer) and holds the PTT output during that space. Versions 2.0 -
                            > 2.2 did not consider the space as a valid character and dropped PTT
                            > during the F-key macros.
                            >
                            > 73,
                            >
                            > ... Joe, W4TV
                            >
                            >
                            > On 3/1/2012 5:55 PM, ve3iay wrote:
                            > > ...and if you are using Winkeyer version 2.0-2.2, perhaps you can alleviate the problem by using an increased tail time or hang time parameter in the Winkeyer setup. Tail time can be set as long as 2.5 seconds, or you can set tail time to zero and adjust hang time to 2 letterspaces. This latter choice only works with Winkeyer versions before 2.3; in version 2.3, hang time only works on paddle input.
                            > >
                            > > 73,
                            > > Rich VE3KI
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, "ve3iay"<ve3ki@> wrote:
                            > >>
                            > >> I believe you said you have a Winkeyer - which version?
                            > >>
                            > >> I have two here. One is version 1.0, the other is version 2.3 .
                            > >>
                            > >> Using the version 1.0, I can send a string with what appears to be an arbitrarily long gap in it, e.g. 20 consecutive inter-word spaces at 10 wpm - that's several seconds - and it does not drop PTT.
                            > >>
                            > >> The version 2.3 is less tolerant; it looks to me as though it can only take a gap of a couple of seconds before the Winkeyer throws an error condition - that is, it can only tolerate 5 consecutive space characters at 10 wpm; 6 consecutive spaces at 10 wpm gives it fits - but at 20 wpm, anything less than about 10 consecutive spaces between characters is too short to cause a problem, and PTT does not drop.
                            > >>
                            > >> Barry N1EU pointed out that one or more of the intermediate versions of Winkeyer (2.0 to 2.2, perhaps?) did drop PTT during long pauses in sent messages. Now that he mentions it, I think I can recall this happening before I upgraded to the latest version a year or so ago. If you have one of these versions, perhaps you might want to upgrade the chip to to version 2.3 .
                            > >>
                            > >> 73,
                            > >> Rich VE3KI
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe<nss@> wrote:
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Please explain that differently, what is happening there.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Because say with this string,
                            > >>>
                            > >>> CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
                            > >>>
                            > >>> If I'm running about 25 WPM all is OK, but if I drop down to 20, the rig goes back to receive several times in that string
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Joe WB9SBD
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                            > >>> Idle Tyme
                            > >>> Idle-Tyme.com
                            > >>> http://www.idle-tyme.com
                            > >>>
                            > >>> On 3/1/2012 11:35 AM, ve3iay wrote:
                            > >>>> Joe,
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> It already works this way. When a CW function key message is sent, PTT stays enabled for the entire duration of the message, regardless of how many embedded spaces there are. Paddle input and Ctrl-K window input drops PTT between characters based on the Winkeyer's tail time or hang time setting, but function-key messages do not, at least not here.
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> 73,
                            > >>>> Rich VE3KI
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> --- In N1MMLogger@yahoogroups.com, Joe<nss@> wrote:
                            > >>>>> Is there a way to using N1MM and Winkeyer USB Ver. 2.10
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> I have always been using the "VOX" on the radio to control the xmit/recv
                            > >>>>> status of the rig. But also never have been really happy with it either.
                            > >>>>> Hang time long enough that it doesn't keep dropping out during an
                            > >>>>> exchange, But then at times when it is set this way, I loose some of the
                            > >>>>> replied exhange if the other station jumps back really fast and my vox
                            > >>>>> hang time it a tad too long.
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> I just connected the PTT control from the Winkeyer to the rear PTT
                            > >>>>> connection on this rig, (Kenwood TS-430S) And it is much better control.
                            > >>>>> BUT some situations the xmit status is still not quite right. And I'm
                            > >>>>> trying to get this all set up for every possible situation.
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> Like in the programmable "F" memory keys, is there a command I could put
                            > >>>>> in the front of the message that says key transmitter, and one at the
                            > >>>>> end that says un key?
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
                            > >>>>> means open PTT
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> like right now I have a typical exchange like in the up-coming Wisconsin
                            > >>>>> qso party a simple exchange SAU
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> 99% of the time it is fine, or even the club call W9ET I already have
                            > >>>>> some special spacing because of the call I usually have it set to send
                            > >>>>> with some extra spaces, I get far less repeat requests when I send W9 E
                            > >>>>> T instead of W9ET with the xtra spaces inserted.
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> And I have one button made with a like 1/2 speed call and one with 1/2
                            > >>>>> speed exchange for those that ask for slower. not a problem except for
                            > >>>>> the when using the old vox way the transmitter would drop in and out all
                            > >>>>> the time. And now using the Winkeyer PTT control the same thing
                            > >>>>> happens. Got it fast enough to come back as fast as possible after the
                            > >>>>> message is done sending so I do not miss the reply, but not so fast that
                            > >>>>> it's constantly changing states.
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> So is there a command that I can place in the string that puts it in
                            > >>>>> transmit mode at the beginning and recv at the end of the string being
                            > >>>>> sent. and no matter how fast or slow the stuff inside is sent the
                            > >>>>> transmitter stays in transmit state til lt the other command tells it to
                            > >>>>> stop,
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> Like
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> CQ CQ Test de W9 E T
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> When sent slow enough to keep it from dropping out all the time,
                            > >>>>> sometimes this is so long that as I said I miss first parts of reply's.
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> But say those special charaters, as described below,
                            > >>>>> For an example say this character means close PTT { and this one }
                            > >>>>> means open PTT is used like this
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> { CQ CQ TEST de W9 E T }
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> so { closes the PTT the messages are sent at any speed doesn't matter
                            > >>>>> and it stays in transmit mode till the } comes through then it opens
                            > >>>>> the PTT.
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> is there a way to do this?
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> Joe WB9SBD
                            > >>>>> --
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
                            > >>>>> Idle Tyme
                            > >>>>> Idle-Tyme.com
                            > >>>>> http://www.idle-tyme.com
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >>>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> ------------------------------------
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                            > >>>> N1MMLogger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >>>
                            > >>
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ------------------------------------
                            > >
                            > > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
                            > > N1MMLogger-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            > >
                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
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