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amanitas and what??

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  • terry caudle
    pics 69 and 70??? found near boletes and muscaria, pine canopy, too chicken to taste. pics 81 and 82 cap grew around a small pinecone to create horseshoe
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 1, 2009
      pics 69 and 70??? found near boletes and muscaria, pine canopy, too chicken to taste. pics 81 and 82 cap grew around a small pinecone to create horseshoe shape. Wierd top, think it may have got too friendly with the nearby muscaria, can't find any sign of tubes or gills. solid white flesh, not staining. Actually taste like B. edulis, other edulis nearby. pics 67 and 71, also to chicken to taste, warted cap, fat stem. stem has worms in it buttons found in same environment, different location.
    • fast_jybe
      Hi Terry, other than the Amanita you seem to have two different species of Albatrellus. The first two photos remind me of Albatrellus ellisii, a common species
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 1, 2009
        Hi Terry,

        other than the Amanita you seem to have two different species of
        Albatrellus. The first two photos remind me of Albatrellus
        ellisii, a common species in Sierra Nevada around that time of
        the year.

        http://mushroomhobby.com/Gallery/Polypores/index.htm#Albatrellus_ellisii

        The second smoother capped one seems like Albatrellus ovinus. I'm
        not sure about its California distribution and being away from my
        primary sources I can't quite be sure. So, if someone wants to
        chime in...

        I have a number of Albatrellus collections from both North
        America and Europe that need to be worked out and the
        illustrations displayed. The common bond between the
        transcontinental collections is that were all from under Picea
        spp. (Spruce).

        How is the weather in California? Any rain up in the mountains?

        D.




        --- In MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com, terry caudle <terrycaudle@...> wrote:
        >
        > pics 69 and 70??? found near boletes and muscaria, pine canopy, too chicken to taste. pics 81 and 82 cap grew around a small pinecone to create horseshoe shape. Wierd top, think it may have got too friendly with the nearby muscaria, can't find any sign of tubes or gills. solid white flesh, not staining. Actually taste like B. edulis, other edulis nearby. pics 67 and 71, also to chicken to taste, warted cap, fat stem. stem has worms in it buttons found in same environment, different location.
        >
      • terry caudle
        dry as a bone. It had rained up at the summit two weks ago and all kinds of stuff is fruiting. I even found a white foam, yellowing a bit, growing on dead
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 1, 2009
          dry as a bone. It had rained up at the summit two weks ago and all kinds of stuff is fruiting. I even found a white foam, yellowing a bit, growing on dead redwood?? first time I've ever seen anything grow on, or near, redwood. finding a lot of romaria, bitter boletes and the satanus. The deer and bugs go for the satanus but not the bitters or the calypus. russulas, slippery jacks and a number of others.Not to mention kings, which I filled my basket with today as well. Bugs are subsiding a bit but still present. Something is eating the caps off the kings in one bite and taking part of the stem as well, trimming it to the ground. I'm guessing the caps would have been 4-6" in diameter

          --- On Tue, 9/1/09, fast_jybe <dimitar@...> wrote:

          From: fast_jybe <dimitar@...>
          Subject: [MushroomTalk] Albatrellus... **Re: amanitas and what??
          To: MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 8:49 PM

           
          Hi Terry,

          other than the Amanita you seem to have two different species of
          Albatrellus. The first two photos remind me of Albatrellus
          ellisii, a common species in Sierra Nevada around that time of
          the year.

          http://mushroomhobb y.com/Gallery/ Polypores/ index.htm# Albatrellus_ ellisii

          The second smoother capped one seems like Albatrellus ovinus. I'm
          not sure about its California distribution and being away from my
          primary sources I can't quite be sure. So, if someone wants to
          chime in...

          I have a number of Albatrellus collections from both North
          America and Europe that need to be worked out and the
          illustrations displayed. The common bond between the
          transcontinental collections is that were all from under Picea
          spp. (Spruce).

          How is the weather in California? Any rain up in the mountains?

          D.

          --- In MushroomTalk@ yahoogroups. com, terry caudle <terrycaudle@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > pics 69 and 70??? found near boletes and muscaria, pine canopy, too chicken to taste. pics 81 and 82 cap grew around a small pinecone to create horseshoe shape. Wierd top, think it may have got too friendly with the nearby muscaria, can't find any sign of tubes or gills. solid white flesh, not staining. Actually taste like B. edulis, other edulis nearby. pics 67 and 71, also to chicken to taste, warted cap, fat stem. stem has worms in it buttons found in same environment, different location.
          >

        • terry caudle
          does the pinacola sptout out of the ground ever?? I found some today, smaller than usual. coming out of the dirt, dead wood may have been buried. ... From:
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 1, 2009
            does the pinacola sptout out of the ground ever?? I found some today, smaller than usual. coming out of the dirt, dead wood may have been buried.

            --- On Tue, 9/1/09, fast_jybe <dimitar@...> wrote:

            From: fast_jybe <dimitar@...>
            Subject: [MushroomTalk] Albatrellus... **Re: amanitas and what??
            To: MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 8:49 PM

             
            Hi Terry,

            other than the Amanita you seem to have two different species of
            Albatrellus. The first two photos remind me of Albatrellus
            ellisii, a common species in Sierra Nevada around that time of
            the year.

            http://mushroomhobb y.com/Gallery/ Polypores/ index.htm# Albatrellus_ ellisii

            The second smoother capped one seems like Albatrellus ovinus. I'm
            not sure about its California distribution and being away from my
            primary sources I can't quite be sure. So, if someone wants to
            chime in...

            I have a number of Albatrellus collections from both North
            America and Europe that need to be worked out and the
            illustrations displayed. The common bond between the
            transcontinental collections is that were all from under Picea
            spp. (Spruce).

            How is the weather in California? Any rain up in the mountains?

            D.

            --- In MushroomTalk@ yahoogroups. com, terry caudle <terrycaudle@ ...> wrote:
            >
            > pics 69 and 70??? found near boletes and muscaria, pine canopy, too chicken to taste. pics 81 and 82 cap grew around a small pinecone to create horseshoe shape. Wierd top, think it may have got too friendly with the nearby muscaria, can't find any sign of tubes or gills. solid white flesh, not staining. Actually taste like B. edulis, other edulis nearby. pics 67 and 71, also to chicken to taste, warted cap, fat stem. stem has worms in it buttons found in same environment, different location.
            >

          • B.W. Freyburger
            Terry, I am afraid your photograph numbers do not correlate well with with your photos as they appear on the group website. There the first 6 are labeled
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 2, 2009
              Terry,
               
              I am afraid your photograph numbers do not correlate well with with your photos as they appear on the group website.  There the first 6 are labeled simply "echo" which is not distinctive.  The seventh is labeled "echo summit 079."  But it seems to make some sense if one presumes the numbers you give line up with the order in which the photos appear.
               
              I have no comments to add to Dimitar's identification of Albatrellus ellisii since that species does not seem to be common in my area (western New Mexico).  I also have nothing to add regarding the Amanita.
               
              But if the second Albatrellus were from my area I would be inclined to think it A. confluens instead of A. ovinus due to the cinnamon-orange cap top and the lack of any yellow tinting where bruised or aged.  In my area A. ovinus (sheep polypore) will generally show yellow tints where bruised or in age and your specimen does not look as young as some.  I find both species here in high elevation (10,000 ft.+) spruce-fir forests, with A. ovinus in particular often being found in the same vicinity as chanterelles.  If my memory is correct A. confluens in my area does not turn yellow when aged or bruised but can sometimes show a pinkish bruising.  While both species can have orange-brown cap surfaces with white pores below, in my area A. ovinus tends to be less orange and more brown and usually has extensive cracking on the top surface of the cap while A. confluens usually has more orange with even reddish splotches on the cap surface which is usually not as cracked. 
               
              I attach representative photos of both species that I took in western New Mexico in 2006 (DSC01314 being A. confluens; while DSC01319 and DSC1320 are A. ovinus).  Both specimens where fresh and young and photographed where found so little or no staining from age or bruising is present.
               
              I also attach photos of specimens collected from Arizona's White Mountains in 2007.  These photos were taken approximately 40 hours after the specimens were collected and show staining from aging and bruising a bit better.  DSC00245 and DSC00246 show slight orange bruising on the top cap surface of A. confluens while DSC00247 and DSC00248 show the slight yellow tint that A. ovinus can get from age and bruising.   
               
              With all this said about macroscopically distinguishing these two species in my area which I have never found to be particularly difficult, I would note that Michael Kuo states:
               
              My collections of Albatrellus ovinus and Albatrellus confluens have come from the Rocky Mountains, where the two species often grow together and can easily be confused once they have matured; I have found that the reaction of the flesh to KOH is very different (golden yellow for Albatrellus ovinus, purple for Albatrellus confluens), and may serve as a way to separate confusing specimens without the bother of microscopic analysis. 
               
               
              I have not eaten either species though neither are said to be poisonous, probably because when I have found them I have also usually found several other species which are generally thought to be better such as chanterelles and king boletes.  In some parts of Europe I hear A. ovinus is quite popular when properly cooked.  But people from some other areas say that species is definitely considered second rate and rarely eaten if anything else is available.  A. confluens is said to often be somewhat bitter and does not seem to be popular for table consumption anywhere I have heard of.  I have dried collections of both species and may yet try eating them one of these days.
               
              Of course the specimen shown in Terry's photo is within the range of cap colors usually contained in the species description for A. ovinus and the colors found in the Sierra Nevada may differ from those in my area and Dimitar's identification could be correct.  Perhaps Terry could inform us further regarding color changes in this specimen related to bruising and aging or exposure to KOH.
               
              BWF

              From: fast_jybe
              Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:49 PM
              Subject: [MushroomTalk] Albatrellus... **Re: amanitas and what??

               

              Hi Terry,

              other than the Amanita you seem to have two different species of
              Albatrellus. The first two photos remind me of Albatrellus
              ellisii, a common species in Sierra Nevada around that time of
              the year.

              http://mushroomhobb y.com/Gallery/ Polypores/ index.htm# Albatrellus_ ellisii

              The second smoother capped one seems like Albatrellus ovinus. I'm
              not sure about its California distribution and being away from my
              primary sources I can't quite be sure. So, if someone wants to
              chime in...

              I have a number of Albatrellus collections from both North
              America and Europe that need to be worked out and the
              illustrations displayed. The common bond between the
              transcontinental collections is that were all from under Picea
              spp. (Spruce).

              How is the weather in California? Any rain up in the mountains?

              D.

              --- In MushroomTalk@ yahoogroups. com, terry caudle <terrycaudle@ ...> wrote:
              >
              > pics 69 and 70??? found near boletes and muscaria, pine canopy, too chicken to taste. pics 81 and 82 cap grew around a small pinecone to create horseshoe shape. Wierd top, think it may have got too friendly with the nearby muscaria, can't find any sign of tubes or gills. solid white flesh, not staining. Actually taste like B. edulis, other edulis nearby. pics 67 and 71, also to chicken to taste, warted cap, fat stem. stem has worms in it buttons found in same environment, different location.
              >

            • fast_jybe
              B.W. thank you for the deeper discourse on the subject. I think that you are right about the S. confluens name being a better fit to Terry s material with the
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 2, 2009
                B.W. thank you for the deeper discourse on the subject. I think
                that you are right about the S. confluens name being a better fit
                to Terry's material with the smoother cap. Similarly to Sarcodon,
                I am aware of the need to, but haven't really made the necessary
                effort to become more familiar with the Albatrellus species out
                West. Discussions with intelligent collectors definitely
                encourage me to study the matter deeper.

                D.

                --- In MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com, "B.W. Freyburger" <freyesq@...> wrote:
                >
                > Terry,
                >
                > I am afraid your photograph numbers do not correlate well with with your photos as they appear on the group website. There the first 6 are labeled simply "echo" which is not distinctive. The seventh is labeled "echo summit 079." But it seems to make some sense if one presumes the numbers you give line up with the order in which the photos appear.
                >
                > I have no comments to add to Dimitar's identification of Albatrellus ellisii since that species does not seem to be common in my area (western New Mexico). I also have nothing to add regarding the Amanita.
                >
                > But if the second Albatrellus were from my area I would be inclined to think it A. confluens instead of A. ovinus due to the cinnamon-orange cap top and the lack of any yellow tinting where bruised or aged. In my area A. ovinus (sheep polypore) will generally show yellow tints where bruised or in age and your specimen does not look as young as some. I find both species here in high elevation (10,000 ft.+) spruce-fir forests, with A. ovinus in particular often being found in the same vicinity as chanterelles. If my memory is correct A. confluens in my area does not turn yellow when aged or bruised but can sometimes show a pinkish bruising. While both species can have orange-brown cap surfaces with white pores below, in my area A. ovinus tends to be less orange and more brown and usually has extensive cracking on the top surface of the cap while A. confluens usually has more orange with even reddish splotches on the cap surface which is usually not as cracked.
                >
                > I attach representative photos of both species that I took in western New Mexico in 2006 (DSC01314 being A. confluens; while DSC01319 and DSC1320 are A. ovinus). Both specimens where fresh and young and photographed where found so little or no staining from age or bruising is present.
                >
                > I also attach photos of specimens collected from Arizona's White Mountains in 2007. These photos were taken approximately 40 hours after the specimens were collected and show staining from aging and bruising a bit better. DSC00245 and DSC00246 show slight orange bruising on the top cap surface of A. confluens while DSC00247 and DSC00248 show the slight yellow tint that A. ovinus can get from age and bruising.
                >
                > With all this said about macroscopically distinguishing these two species in my area which I have never found to be particularly difficult, I would note that Michael Kuo states:
                >
                > My collections of Albatrellus ovinus and Albatrellus confluens have come from the Rocky Mountains, where the two species often grow together and can easily be confused once they have matured; I have found that the reaction of the flesh to KOH is very different (golden yellow for Albatrellus ovinus, purple for Albatrellus confluens), and may serve as a way to separate confusing specimens without the bother of microscopic analysis.
                >
                > From: http://www.mushroomexpert.com/albatrellus_ovinus.html
                >
                > I have not eaten either species though neither are said to be poisonous, probably because when I have found them I have also usually found several other species which are generally thought to be better such as chanterelles and king boletes. In some parts of Europe I hear A. ovinus is quite popular when properly cooked. But people from some other areas say that species is definitely considered second rate and rarely eaten if anything else is available. A. confluens is said to often be somewhat bitter and does not seem to be popular for table consumption anywhere I have heard of. I have dried collections of both species and may yet try eating them one of these days.
                >
                > Of course the specimen shown in Terry's photo is within the range of cap colors usually contained in the species description for A. ovinus and the colors found in the Sierra Nevada may differ from those in my area and Dimitar's identification could be correct. Perhaps Terry could inform us further regarding color changes in this specimen related to bruising and aging or exposure to KOH.
                >
                > BWF
                >
                >
                > From: fast_jybe
                > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:49 PM
                > To: MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [MushroomTalk] Albatrellus... **Re: amanitas and what??
                >
                >
                > Hi Terry,
                >
                > other than the Amanita you seem to have two different species of
                > Albatrellus. The first two photos remind me of Albatrellus
                > ellisii, a common species in Sierra Nevada around that time of
                > the year.
                >
                > http://mushroomhobby.com/Gallery/Polypores/index.htm#Albatrellus_ellisii
                >
                > The second smoother capped one seems like Albatrellus ovinus. I'm
                > not sure about its California distribution and being away from my
                > primary sources I can't quite be sure. So, if someone wants to
                > chime in...
                >
                > I have a number of Albatrellus collections from both North
                > America and Europe that need to be worked out and the
                > illustrations displayed. The common bond between the
                > transcontinental collections is that were all from under Picea
                > spp. (Spruce).
                >
                > How is the weather in California? Any rain up in the mountains?
                >
                > D.
                >
                > --- In MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com, terry caudle <terrycaudle@> wrote:
                > >
                > > pics 69 and 70??? found near boletes and muscaria, pine canopy, too chicken to taste. pics 81 and 82 cap grew around a small pinecone to create horseshoe shape. Wierd top, think it may have got too friendly with the nearby muscaria, can't find any sign of tubes or gills. solid white flesh, not staining. Actually taste like B. edulis, other edulis nearby. pics 67 and 71, also to chicken to taste, warted cap, fat stem. stem has worms in it buttons found in same environment, different location.
                > >
                >
              • terry caudle
                the brown topped one has no staining when cut or otherwise. flesh is white and nutting tasting. found with spruce and firs at 7000 ft. lots of B. edulis in
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 2, 2009
                  the brown topped one has no staining when cut or otherwise. flesh is white and nutting tasting. found with spruce and firs at 7000 ft. lots of B. edulis in same area, cap same color as edulis. actually taste similar to the kings.

                  --- On Wed, 9/2/09, B.W. Freyburger <freyesq@...> wrote:

                  From: B.W. Freyburger <freyesq@...>
                  Subject: Re: [MushroomTalk] Albatrellus... **Re: amanitas and what?? [7 Attachments]
                  To: MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 7:24 AM

                   
                  Terry,
                   
                  I am afraid your photograph numbers do not correlate well with with your photos as they appear on the group website.  There the first 6 are labeled simply "echo" which is not distinctive.  The seventh is labeled "echo summit 079."  But it seems to make some sense if one presumes the numbers you give line up with the order in which the photos appear.
                   
                  I have no comments to add to Dimitar's identification of Albatrellus ellisii since that species does not seem to be common in my area (western New Mexico).  I also have nothing to add regarding the Amanita.
                   
                  But if the second Albatrellus were from my area I would be inclined to think it A. confluens instead of A. ovinus due to the cinnamon-orange cap top and the lack of any yellow tinting where bruised or aged.  In my area A. ovinus (sheep polypore) will generally show yellow tints where bruised or in age and your specimen does not look as young as some.  I find both species here in high elevation (10,000 ft.+) spruce-fir forests, with A. ovinus in particular often being found in the same vicinity as chanterelles.  If my memory is correct A. confluens in my area does not turn yellow when aged or bruised but can sometimes show a pinkish bruising.  While both species can have orange-brown cap surfaces with white pores below, in my area A. ovinus tends to be less orange and more brown and usually has extensive cracking on the top surface of the cap while A. confluens usually has more orange with even reddish splotches on the cap surface which is usually not as cracked. 
                   
                  I attach representative photos of both species that I took in western New Mexico in 2006 (DSC01314 being A. confluens; while DSC01319 and DSC1320 are A. ovinus).  Both specimens where fresh and young and photographed where found so little or no staining from age or bruising is present.
                   
                  I also attach photos of specimens collected from Arizona's White Mountains in 2007.  These photos were taken approximately 40 hours after the specimens were collected and show staining from aging and bruising a bit better.  DSC00245 and DSC00246 show slight orange bruising on the top cap surface of A. confluens while DSC00247 and DSC00248 show the slight yellow tint that A. ovinus can get from age and bruising.   
                   
                  With all this said about macroscopically distinguishing these two species in my area which I have never found to be particularly difficult, I would note that Michael Kuo states:
                   
                  My collections of Albatrellus ovinus and Albatrellus confluens have come from the Rocky Mountains, where the two species often grow together and can easily be confused once they have matured; I have found that the reaction of the flesh to KOH is very different (golden yellow for Albatrellus ovinus, purple for Albatrellus confluens), and may serve as a way to separate confusing specimens without the bother of microscopic analysis. 
                   
                   
                  I have not eaten either species though neither are said to be poisonous, probably because when I have found them I have also usually found several other species which are generally thought to be better such as chanterelles and king boletes.  In some parts of Europe I hear A. ovinus is quite popular when properly cooked.  But people from some other areas say that species is definitely considered second rate and rarely eaten if anything else is available.  A. confluens is said to often be somewhat bitter and does not seem to be popular for table consumption anywhere I have heard of.  I have dried collections of both species and may yet try eating them one of these days.
                   
                  Of course the specimen shown in Terry's photo is within the range of cap colors usually contained in the species description for A. ovinus and the colors found in the Sierra Nevada may differ from those in my area and Dimitar's identification could be correct.  Perhaps Terry could inform us further regarding color changes in this specimen related to bruising and aging or exposure to KOH.
                   
                  BWF

                  From: fast_jybe
                  Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:49 PM
                  Subject: [MushroomTalk] Albatrellus. .. **Re: amanitas and what??

                   
                  Hi Terry,

                  other than the Amanita you seem to have two different species of
                  Albatrellus. The first two photos remind me of Albatrellus
                  ellisii, a common species in Sierra Nevada around that time of
                  the year.

                  http://mushroomhobb y.com/Gallery/ Polypores/ index.htm# Albatrellus_ ellisii

                  The second smoother capped one seems like Albatrellus ovinus. I'm
                  not sure about its California distribution and being away from my
                  primary sources I can't quite be sure. So, if someone wants to
                  chime in...

                  I have a number of Albatrellus collections from both North
                  America and Europe that need to be worked out and the
                  illustrations displayed. The common bond between the
                  transcontinental collections is that were all from under Picea
                  spp. (Spruce).

                  How is the weather in California? Any rain up in the mountains?

                  D.

                  --- In MushroomTalk@ yahoogroups. com, terry caudle <terrycaudle@ ...> wrote:
                  >
                  > pics 69 and 70??? found near boletes and muscaria, pine canopy, too chicken to taste. pics 81 and 82 cap grew around a small pinecone to create horseshoe shape. Wierd top, think it may have got too friendly with the nearby muscaria, can't find any sign of tubes or gills. solid white flesh, not staining. Actually taste like B. edulis, other edulis nearby. pics 67 and 71, also to chicken to taste, warted cap, fat stem. stem has worms in it buttons found in same environment, different location.
                  >

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