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Re: [MushroomTalk] Methuen Color Handbook

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  • Dimitar Bojantchev
    Ryane, good point, Ridgeway is important and I have that same reprint, but right now it is useful only if one wants to interpret A.H. Smith and the mycologists
    Message 1 of 6 , May 1, 2009
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      Ryane, good point, Ridgeway is important and I have that same reprint,
      but right now it is useful only if one wants to interpret A.H. Smith
      and the mycologists of that era. You know what I mean -- stuff like
      "Dragon Red" to "Oriental Green".
       
      Right now, for better or worse, Methuen is in vogue.
       
      But most of this is BS. I'm not discarding the use of color
      descriptions, but to use the textile industry's guide for that is
      somewhat crazy. The textile guys strived for uniformity, yet mushroom
      pigmentation is nowhere near it. Out terminology should be less exact,
      but more encompassing and relaying true color nuances.
       
      Prof. Desjardin mentioned to me recently how talking to Moser it
      wasn't clear what he interprets as blue or lilac and in such cases we
      surely need to anchor the interpretations very solidly.
       
      But at the same time, except in a few special cases when truly
      PERSISTENT and interesting colors occur where it is critical to
      describe them precisely, most of the silly color names refer to highly
      fleeting forms that can be described in more general terms.
       
      And yet, some mycologists tend to produce tons of fluff when making a
      description. There is a huge difference between how long description
      is and how useful it is. I will talk about that in great length in the
      near future.
       
         D.
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 11:29 PM
      Subject: Re: [MushroomTalk] Methuen Color Handbook

      One can get a copy of Color Standards and Nomenclature by Robert Ridgway for $24. I am lucky enough to have a 1912 edition which is excellent for matching mushroom colors.

      ~Ryane

      On Apr 30, 2009, at 11:00 PM, cfs_myko wrote:



      Just got my hands on a copy of this today - a loan, not a personal copy, mind you.
      The copies I saw for sale online were wildly expensive - I couldn't believe my eyes.
      But, just as a matter of interest, I thought I'd share my comments on this booklet whose name we all recognize from original species descriptions, but which is often out of our reach.

      1. This is a very small book. Almost pocket-sized, but densely packed with information. The introduction is followed by color swatches that cover a surprisingly wide range, followed by information on derivation and names. Some of this text is quite characterful and entertaining (see Goose Turd swatch 3F3, sort of a gray green).

      2. The ability to find satisfactory matches for natural colors is pretty remarkable (although I have only given it a first run). I tried it with some wildflowers today, and it captured both subtle hues and gradations to lighter, as well as paler, darker, and more intense colors well.

      3. The structure of the book makes finding the color you want relatively easy - intuitively organized. All in all, the authors knew what they wanted to accomplish, and were competent in acheiving this goal.

      I can think of no reason this book is out of print.


    • Darvin DeShazer
      Christian left out one of the most useful features of Methuen. The color matching card in the back cover. It works GREAT and makes the book easy to use! I
      Message 2 of 6 , May 1, 2009
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        Christian left out one of the most useful features of Methuen. The
        color matching card in the back cover. It works GREAT and makes the
        book easy to use!

        I bought my copy in the mid-80's, brand new for $32. Ridgway was
        written for birds colors.

        Question - is the copy (reprint) of Ridgway for $24 useful? Doesn't
        it lack the color swaths?
        Ron Peterson has a conversion table on his web site for Ridgway to
        Methuen.
        http://fp.bio.utk.edu/mycology/Color/color-intro.htm

        Some young mycologists have switched to eBay colors.
        The color plate costs $3 and can be as cheap as $1 in quantity.
        But it is difficult to match colors, even after making a color
        matching card, because the colors are NOT grouped together in a
        gradation of hue and intensity like Methuen.


        Darv
        SOMA Science Advisor
        SOMAmushrooms.org
        MushroomObserver.org - 41,000 photos & going up daily
        http://darv.vox.com/




        On May 1, 2009, at 2:25 AM, Dimitar Bojantchev wrote:

        >
        > Right now, for better or worse, Methuen is in vogue.
        >
        >
        > D.
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Ryane Snow
        > To: MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 11:29 PM
        > Subject: Re: [MushroomTalk] Methuen Color Handbook
        >
        > One can get a copy of Color Standards and Nomenclature by Robert
        > Ridgway for $24. I am lucky enough to have a 1912 edition which is
        > excellent for matching mushroom colors.
        >
        > ~Ryane
        >
      • debbie viess
        Well, color me envious! I d love to have a copyof Methuen myself, but I refuse to pay those extortionist prices. The trouble with being a Mushie Come Lately...
        Message 3 of 6 , May 1, 2009
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          Well, color me envious! I'd love to have a copyof Methuen myself, but I refuse to pay those extortionist prices. The trouble with being a Mushie Come Lately...
           
          Rita

          --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Darvin DeShazer <muscaria@...> wrote:
          From: Darvin DeShazer <muscaria@...>
          Subject: Re: [MushroomTalk] Methuen Color Handbook
          To: MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 1:01 PM

          Christian left out one of the most useful features of Methuen. The
          color matching card in the back cover. It works GREAT and makes the
          book easy to use!

          I bought my copy in the mid-80's, brand new for $32. Ridgway was
          written for birds colors.

          Question - is the copy (reprint) of Ridgway for $24 useful? Doesn't
          it lack the color swaths?
          Ron Peterson has a conversion table on his web site for Ridgway to
          Methuen.
          http://fp.bio. utk.edu/mycology /Color/color- intro.htm

          Some young mycologists have switched to eBay colors.
          The color plate costs $3 and can be as cheap as $1 in quantity.
          But it is difficult to match colors, even after making a color
          matching card, because the colors are NOT grouped together in a
          gradation of hue and intensity like Methuen.

          Darv
          SOMA Science Advisor
          SOMAmushrooms. org
          MushroomObserver. org - 41,000 photos & going up daily
          http://darv. vox.com/

          On May 1, 2009, at 2:25 AM, Dimitar Bojantchev wrote:

          >
          > Right now, for better or worse, Methuen is in vogue.
          >
          >
          > D.
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Ryane Snow
          > To: MushroomTalk@ yahoogroups. com
          > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 11:29 PM
          > Subject: Re: [MushroomTalk] Methuen Color Handbook
          >
          > One can get a copy of Color Standards and Nomenclature by Robert
          > Ridgway for $24. I am lucky enough to have a 1912 edition which is
          > excellent for matching mushroom colors.
          >
          > ~Ryane
          >

        • Dimitar Bojantchev
          ... Darvin, not sure what you mean by a swath , but it does have the color plates, somewhat worn out. It is useable, but not too useful, except to interpret
          Message 4 of 6 , May 2, 2009
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            >Question - is the copy (reprint) of Ridgway for $24 useful? Doesn't
            >it lack the color swaths?
             
            Darvin, not sure what you mean by a "swath", but it does have the
            color plates, somewhat worn out. It is useable, but not too useful,
            except to interpret some of Smith's and Stuntz's works. You're right
            it was about Nature, I was confused with the textile application.
             

            The Munsell Soil Color Charts are also vastly popular with serious
            mycologists. Since soil colors are more natural I suspect it may work
            well.
             
             

            Fundamentally though, there is nothing mathematical about the colors
            of mushrooms -- a good description beats all these formal color
            names. The primary should be the English language with occasional
            mathematical references. Otherwise, I think that the attempt to use so
            many color guides is misguided.  Because now to interpret descriptions
            someone has to get surrounded by color guides.
             
            And a good description require good icones -- photographic or drawn,
            doesn't matter. No color references can make up for the lack of
            it. There are some very gifted artists who can draw splendid
            images. And what an images can capture a thousand words can't. The
            more of them the better as they should capture several forms and
            varieties. The basic mantra that I follow is this -- good image may
            not be sufficient for a good description, but no description is good
            without it...
             
                D.
             

            P.S. As far as this rain in No. California -- it came with
            mathematical precision, right when it was needed. Warm, humid weather
            is exactly what the doctor ordered for mushrooms to conceive this
            Spring. Considering that last Spring the season was pretty much
            skipped, we should expect a great crop in a couple of weeks to a month
            - I expect some rare montane species to show up this Spring!

             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 6:01 AM
            Subject: Re: [MushroomTalk] Methuen Color Handbook

            Christian left out one of the most useful features of Methuen. The
            color matching card in the back cover. It works GREAT and makes the
            book easy to use!

            I bought my copy in the mid-80's, brand new for $32. Ridgway was
            written for birds colors.

            Question - is the copy (reprint) of Ridgway for $24 useful? Doesn't
            it lack the color swaths?
            Ron Peterson has a conversion table on his web site for Ridgway to
            Methuen.
            http://fp.bio. utk.edu/mycology /Color/color- intro.htm

            Some young mycologists have switched to eBay colors.
            The color plate costs $3 and can be as cheap as $1 in quantity.
            But it is difficult to match colors, even after making a color
            matching card, because the colors are NOT grouped together in a
            gradation of hue and intensity like Methuen.

            Darv
            SOMA Science Advisor
            SOMAmushrooms. org
            MushroomObserver. org - 41,000 photos & going up daily
            http://darv. vox.com/

            On May 1, 2009, at 2:25 AM, Dimitar Bojantchev wrote:

            >
            > Right now, for better or worse, Methuen is in vogue.
            >
            >
            > D.
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Ryane Snow
            > To: MushroomTalk@ yahoogroups. com
            > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 11:29 PM
            > Subject: Re: [MushroomTalk] Methuen Color Handbook
            >
            > One can get a copy of Color Standards and Nomenclature by Robert
            > Ridgway for $24. I am lucky enough to have a 1912 edition which is
            > excellent for matching mushroom colors.
            >
            > ~Ryane
            >

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