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[MT] Re: *Medium*-sized inky mushrooms & RAW mushrooms

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  • sam_schaperow
    Dimitar, though I was initially replying to you, I m actually now creating a general post on raw food: There s much literature out there showing raw food to be
    Message 1 of 10 , May 1, 2012
      Dimitar, though I was initially replying to you, I'm actually now creating a general post on raw food:

      There's much literature out there showing raw food to be best for the body (do you really think it is better to eat cooked carrots instead of raw?). We factually know with vegetables, [safe when raw] animal products, etc. that cooking does destroy nutrients and other healthful substances. That's what they say, anyway.

      I'm not a raw-foodist, nor a cooked foodist. I'm a foodie. But when it comes to nutrition, I think it is unfortunate when people in one or another camp make blanket statements, such as "raw is good" or "cooked is good". It depends on the food.

      As for mushrooms, they say shiitake is better raw than cremini due to the compounds we know that may be carcinogenic. They've said egg yolks are bad for cholesterol, but do they also contain "bad cholesterol" lowering substances? For mushrooms, I think that as a rule of thumb, cooking is best, but wow:

      Mushrooms are SO diverse! How can we (we=whomever says it) say anything about all mushrooms? They are such a tremendously diverse array of meaty fruits of the fungal kingdom, which exist in a tremendous variety of substrates, and are found in the dark, bright sun, beaches, and even deep under rivers. We know some will kill us easily if eaten, and others are healthful. Is it so far fetched to think some are best eaten raw and others cooked?

      Ah well, when it comes to mushrooms, 99% of the time I focus on the cooked ones, but how interesting it would be if lots of research were done on non-agaric mushrooms like jellies and we can understand their raw properties even better.

      --- In MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Dimitar Bojantchev" <dimitar@...> wrote:
      >
      > >I'm often curious, but rarely find it worthwhile to eat mushrooms raw, but this one peaks my interest. I've licked the inky mess and find the flavor quite interesting.
      >
      > Sam, there are some you can lick that are hot as hell and others bitter.
      >
      > But generally, I do not understand the recent tendency to go back to eating some vegetables raw. The humans have evolved enough from the other mammals to heavily utilize heat treatment over the millennia, undoubtedly extending its range of what its enzymes can process once the cell structures are released and substances changed as a result of heat treatment. I do not see how or why humans should mimic deer and rodents and go back to eating raw potatoes and mushrooms. As far a the macromycetes, it is well documented that in most cases they consist of substances not processed by the human intestines without heat treatment. Not to mention the effect of heat to eliminating the vast majority (not all) of light toxins. .
      >
      > D.
      >
      >
      > From: sam_schaperow
      > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 6:05 AM
      > To: MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [MT] Re: *Medium*-sized inky mushrooms in April & baby
      >
      >
      > Thanks D.
      >
      > #2
      >
      > The shaggy stuff looks to be Coprinus comatus, but any other ideas?
      >
      > Yes, if any non-alcohol issues with deliquescent mushrooms, that would be good to know. Otherwise, any mushrooms that are deliquescent would be safe. Note to those who may try to use this possible rule: Once upon a time when I knew less about mushrooms, I mistook (but did *not* eat) an amanita's patches for scales, thinking it was a Coprinus comatus or lepiota/macrolepiota.... Anyway, my caution is for newer learners, don't assume a mushroom is deliquescent by its shape (unless you know it w/o a doubt), but rather based on seeing it in the deliquescent stage & can feel & see the ink. Further, don't mistake a non-deliquescent mushroom fruiting near a deliquescent mushroom.
      >
      > OK, & now the raw question: I'm often curious, but rarely find it worthwhile to eat mushrooms raw, but this one peaks my interest. I've licked the inky mess and find the flavor quite interesting. I don't think cooking would do much more than melt it. So, I wonder can deliquescent mushrooms be eaten raw? Given the flavor and texture, I'd think it a nice raw experience if this is safe.
      >
      > --- In mailto:MushroomTalk%40yahoogroups.com, dimitar@ wrote:
      > >
      > > Sam, first things first -- congrtatulations on the new family member. This is precious. #?
      > >
      > > As far as the ink cap, these are not easy to I'd without some microscopy, not to mention that I'm not to sold the taxonomic stability.
      > >
      > > Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but outside of the alcohol issues I am not aware of any serious issues in this group.
      > >
      > > D.
      > >
      > >
      > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: "sam_schaperow" <sam.schaperow@>
      > > Sender: mailto:MushroomTalk%40yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 00:52:11
      > > To: <mailto:MushroomTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > Reply-To: mailto:MushroomTalk%40yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [MT] Re: *Medium*-sized inky mushrooms in April & baby
      > >
      > >
      > > found in my compost bin, btw! :)
      > > Anyone know the species?
      > >
      > > BTW, any poisonous coprinoids (not including the alcohol issue)?
      > >
      > > Also, had a new baby a few days ago. Name is Rosa.
      > >
      > > --- In mailto:MushroomTalk%40yahoogroups.com, Sam Schaperow <sam.schaperow@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > I surprisingly found these medium-sized mushrooms today. High-res. pics,
      > > > > click here to see:
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > Inky mushrooms found in April. Presently not 100% certain of
      > > > species.<http://foraging.posterous.com/>
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --
      > > > Sam Schaperow, MSMFT, LMFT
      > > > *Clinical Director*
      > > > http://PsychologyCT.com
      > > > <http://schaperowpsychologycenter.com>
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Patrick Hamilton
      A lot of raw food is simply not that appealing to most of us. Steak tartare? When is the last time any of us have had that? (Sashimi is different--to me at
      Message 2 of 10 , May 1, 2012
        A lot of raw food is simply not that appealing to most of us.  Steak tartare? When is the last time any of us have had that? (Sashimi is different--to me at least, love it!)  I was a chef even back in the 70's when raw broccoli was always on a crudite plate.  Barely digestible.  Blanched is much better.  There was a raw restaurant in Marin County called "Roxanne's" that lasted not so long.  So long to raw foodies.



        From: sam_schaperow <sam.schaperow@...>
        To: MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, May 1, 2012 7:24:29 AM
        Subject: [MT] Re: *Medium*-sized inky mushrooms & RAW mushrooms

         

        Dimitar, though I was initially replying to you, I'm actually now creating a general post on raw food:

        There's much literature out there showing raw food to be best for the body (do you really think it is better to eat cooked carrots instead of raw?). We factually know with vegetables, [safe when raw] animal products, etc. that cooking does destroy nutrients and other healthful substances. That's what they say, anyway.

        I'm not a raw-foodist, nor a cooked foodist. I'm a foodie. But when it comes to nutrition, I think it is unfortunate when people in one or another camp make blanket statements, such as "raw is good" or "cooked is good". It depends on the food.

        As for mushrooms, they say shiitake is better raw than cremini due to the compounds we know that may be carcinogenic. They've said egg yolks are bad for cholesterol, but do they also contain "bad cholesterol" lowering substances? For mushrooms, I think that as a rule of thumb, cooking is best, but wow:

        Mushrooms are SO diverse! How can we (we=whomever says it) say anything about all mushrooms? They are such a tremendously diverse array of meaty fruits of the fungal kingdom, which exist in a tremendous variety of substrates, and are found in the dark, bright sun, beaches, and even deep under rivers. We know some will kill us easily if eaten, and others are healthful. Is it so far fetched to think some are best eaten raw and others cooked?

        Ah well, when it comes to mushrooms, 99% of the time I focus on the cooked ones, but how interesting it would be if lots of research were done on non-agaric mushrooms like jellies and we can understand their raw properties even better.

        --- In MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Dimitar Bojantchev" <dimitar@...> wrote:
        >
        > >I'm often curious, but rarely find it worthwhile to eat mushrooms raw, but this one peaks my interest. I've licked the inky mess and find the flavor quite interesting.
        >
        > Sam, there are some you can lick that are hot as hell and others bitter.
        >
        > But generally, I do not understand the recent tendency to go back to eating some vegetables raw. The humans have evolved enough from the other mammals to heavily utilize heat treatment over the millennia, undoubtedly extending its range of what its enzymes can process once the cell structures are released and substances changed as a result of heat treatment. I do not see how or why humans should mimic deer and rodents and go back to eating raw potatoes and mushrooms. As far a the macromycetes, it is well documented that in most cases they consist of substances not processed by the human intestines without heat treatment. Not to mention the effect of heat to eliminating the vast majority (not all) of light toxins. .
        >
        > D.
        >
        >
        > From: sam_schaperow
        > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 6:05 AM
        > To: MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [MT] Re: *Medium*-sized inky mushrooms in April & baby
        >
        >
        > Thanks D.
        >
        > #2
        >
        > The shaggy stuff looks to be Coprinus comatus, but any other ideas?
        >
        > Yes, if any non-alcohol issues with deliquescent mushrooms, that would be good to know. Otherwise, any mushrooms that are deliquescent would be safe. Note to those who may try to use this possible rule: Once upon a time when I knew less about mushrooms, I mistook (but did *not* eat) an amanita's patches for scales, thinking it was a Coprinus comatus or lepiota/macrolepiota.... Anyway, my caution is for newer learners, don't assume a mushroom is deliquescent by its shape (unless you know it w/o a doubt), but rather based on seeing it in the deliquescent stage & can feel & see the ink. Further, don't mistake a non-deliquescent mushroom fruiting near a deliquescent mushroom.
        >
        > OK, & now the raw question: I'm often curious, but rarely find it worthwhile to eat mushrooms raw, but this one peaks my interest. I've licked the inky mess and find the flavor quite interesting. I don't think cooking would do much more than melt it. So, I wonder can deliquescent mushrooms be eaten raw? Given the flavor and texture, I'd think it a nice raw experience if this is safe.
        >
        > --- In mailto:MushroomTalk%40yahoogroups.com, dimitar@ wrote:
        > >
        > > Sam, first things first -- congrtatulations on the new family member. This is precious. #?
        > >
        > > As far as the ink cap, these are not easy to I'd without some microscopy, not to mention that I'm not to sold the taxonomic stability.
        > >
        > > Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but outside of the alcohol issues I am not aware of any serious issues in this group.
        > >
        > > D.
        > >
        > >
        > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: "sam_schaperow" <sam.schaperow@>
        > > Sender: mailto:MushroomTalk%40yahoogroups.com
        > > Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 00:52:11
        > > To: <mailto:MushroomTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > Reply-To: mailto:MushroomTalk%40yahoogroups.com
        > > Subject: [MT] Re: *Medium*-sized inky mushrooms in April & baby
        > >
        > >
        > > found in my compost bin, btw! :)
        > > Anyone know the species?
        > >
        > > BTW, any poisonous coprinoids (not including the alcohol issue)?
        > >
        > > Also, had a new baby a few days ago. Name is Rosa.
        > >
        > > --- In mailto:MushroomTalk%40yahoogroups.com, Sam Schaperow <sam.schaperow@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > I surprisingly found these medium-sized mushrooms today. High-res. pics,
        > > > > click here to see:
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > Inky mushrooms found in April. Presently not 100% certain of
        > > > species.<http://foraging.posterous.com/>
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --
        > > > Sam Schaperow, MSMFT, LMFT
        > > > *Clinical Director*
        > > > http://PsychologyCT.com
        > > > <http://schaperowpsychologycenter.com>
        > > >
        > >
        >

      • Boletebill
        This Inky is the slightly poisonous Coprinopsis picacea, The Magpie, a mostly European mushroom but common at times in the campgrounds of Hopeville pond State
        Message 3 of 10 , May 1, 2012
          This Inky is the slightly poisonous Coprinopsis picacea, The Magpie, a mostly European mushroom but common at times in the campgrounds of Hopeville pond State Park CT.

          Bill Yule
          --- In MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com, "sam_schaperow" <sam.schaperow@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > P.S. or perhaps actually Coprinus variegatus
          > --- In MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com, "sam_schaperow" <sam.schaperow@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Thanks D.
          > >
          > > #2
          > >
          > > The shaggy stuff looks to be Coprinus comatus, but any other ideas?
          > >
          > > Yes, if any non-alcohol issues with deliquescent mushrooms, that would be good to know. Otherwise, any mushrooms that are deliquescent would be safe. Note to those who may try to use this possible rule: Once upon a time when I knew less about mushrooms, I mistook (but did *not* eat) an amanita's patches for scales, thinking it was a Coprinus comatus or lepiota/macrolepiota.... Anyway, my caution is for newer learners, don't assume a mushroom is deliquescent by its shape (unless you know it w/o a doubt), but rather based on seeing it in the deliquescent stage & can feel & see the ink. Further, don't mistake a non-deliquescent mushroom fruiting near a deliquescent mushroom.
          > >
          > > OK, & now the raw question: I'm often curious, but rarely find it worthwhile to eat mushrooms raw, but this one peaks my interest. I've licked the inky mess and find the flavor quite interesting. I don't think cooking would do much more than melt it. So, I wonder can deliquescent mushrooms be eaten raw? Given the flavor and texture, I'd think it a nice raw experience if this is safe.
          > >
          > > --- In MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com, dimitar@ wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Sam, first things first -- congrtatulations on the new family member. This is precious. #?
          > > >
          > > > As far as the ink cap, these are not easy to I'd without some microscopy, not to mention that I'm not to sold the taxonomic stability.
          > > >
          > > > Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but outside of the alcohol issues I am not aware of any serious issues in this group.
          > > >
          > > > D.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
          > > >
          > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > From: "sam_schaperow" <sam.schaperow@>
          > > > Sender: MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 00:52:11
          > > > To: <MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com>
          > > > Reply-To: MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Subject: [MT] Re: *Medium*-sized inky mushrooms in April & baby
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > found in my compost bin, btw! :)
          > > > Anyone know the species?
          > > >
          > > > BTW, any poisonous coprinoids (not including the alcohol issue)?
          > > >
          > > > Also, had a new baby a few days ago. Name is Rosa.
          > > >
          > > > --- In MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com, Sam Schaperow <sam.schaperow@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I surprisingly found these medium-sized mushrooms today. High-res. pics,
          > > > > > click here to see:
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Inky mushrooms found in April. Presently not 100% certain of
          > > > > species.<http://foraging.posterous.com/>
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > --
          > > > > Sam Schaperow, MSMFT, LMFT
          > > > > *Clinical Director*
          > > > > http://PsychologyCT.com
          > > > > <http://schaperowpsychologycenter.com>
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • sam_schaperow
          Ah, that is an ID I can say looks clearly to be precisely this mushroom. TY, as this one was a stumper. Neat to find it, especially growing in my compost
          Message 4 of 10 , May 1, 2012
            Ah, that is an ID I can say looks clearly to be precisely this mushroom. TY, as this one was a stumper. Neat to find it, especially growing in my compost bin. :)
            I wonder if the occasional mildish poisonings were related to small amounts of coprine or a similar substance (Boletus luridus, for instance has a similar effect as Coprinopsis atramentaria, but I understand L. Zeitlmayr* wrote they may have not isolated the effect as due to coprine in B. luridus).

            *also explained in Joseph F. Ammirati, James A. Traquair, Paul A. Horgen's "Poisonous Mushrooms of the Northern United States and Canada"

            Sam

            --- In MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Boletebill" <boletebill@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > This Inky is the slightly poisonous Coprinopsis picacea, The Magpie, a mostly European mushroom but common at times in the campgrounds of Hopeville pond State Park CT.
            >
            > Bill Yule
            > --- In MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com, "sam_schaperow" <sam.schaperow@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > P.S. or perhaps actually Coprinus variegatus
            > > --- In MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com, "sam_schaperow" <sam.schaperow@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Thanks D.
            > > >
            > > > #2
            > > >
            > > > The shaggy stuff looks to be Coprinus comatus, but any other ideas?
            > > >
            > > > Yes, if any non-alcohol issues with deliquescent mushrooms, that would be good to know. Otherwise, any mushrooms that are deliquescent would be safe. Note to those who may try to use this possible rule: Once upon a time when I knew less about mushrooms, I mistook (but did *not* eat) an amanita's patches for scales, thinking it was a Coprinus comatus or lepiota/macrolepiota.... Anyway, my caution is for newer learners, don't assume a mushroom is deliquescent by its shape (unless you know it w/o a doubt), but rather based on seeing it in the deliquescent stage & can feel & see the ink. Further, don't mistake a non-deliquescent mushroom fruiting near a deliquescent mushroom.
            > > >
            > > > OK, & now the raw question: I'm often curious, but rarely find it worthwhile to eat mushrooms raw, but this one peaks my interest. I've licked the inky mess and find the flavor quite interesting. I don't think cooking would do much more than melt it. So, I wonder can deliquescent mushrooms be eaten raw? Given the flavor and texture, I'd think it a nice raw experience if this is safe.
            > > >
            > > > --- In MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com, dimitar@ wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Sam, first things first -- congrtatulations on the new family member. This is precious. #?
            > > > >
            > > > > As far as the ink cap, these are not easy to I'd without some microscopy, not to mention that I'm not to sold the taxonomic stability.
            > > > >
            > > > > Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but outside of the alcohol issues I am not aware of any serious issues in this group.
            > > > >
            > > > > D.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
            > > > >
            > > > > -----Original Message-----
            > > > > From: "sam_schaperow" <sam.schaperow@>
            > > > > Sender: MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com
            > > > > Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 00:52:11
            > > > > To: <MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com>
            > > > > Reply-To: MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com
            > > > > Subject: [MT] Re: *Medium*-sized inky mushrooms in April & baby
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > found in my compost bin, btw! :)
            > > > > Anyone know the species?
            > > > >
            > > > > BTW, any poisonous coprinoids (not including the alcohol issue)?
            > > > >
            > > > > Also, had a new baby a few days ago. Name is Rosa.
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In MushroomTalk@yahoogroups.com, Sam Schaperow <sam.schaperow@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > I surprisingly found these medium-sized mushrooms today. High-res. pics,
            > > > > > > click here to see:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Inky mushrooms found in April. Presently not 100% certain of
            > > > > > species.<http://foraging.posterous.com/>
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --
            > > > > > Sam Schaperow, MSMFT, LMFT
            > > > > > *Clinical Director*
            > > > > > http://PsychologyCT.com
            > > > > > <http://schaperowpsychologycenter.com>
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
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