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Re: Clarinet work

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  • Edward McLean
    ... The problem to me seems to be the differing requirements of clarinet players. The legitimate player goes for the tone and a traditional mouthpiece with
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 2, 2010
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      --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "oricmuso" <steve.m@...> wrote:
      >
      > I've done a bit of work on sax mouthpieces and managed to get some reasonable results. I had a mess around with a clarinet piece, opening the chamber and putting in a baffle and found that the sort of things that work (internally) on sax pieces don't work so well on clarinets.
      > I guess tip and rail may be similar but I'm thinking more of chamber + baffles.
      >
      > Any tips on how to approach clarinet work?
      >
      > Also, any books on refacing apart from the Eric Brand/ Selmer manual?
      >
      > SteveM
      >
      The problem to me seems to be the differing requirements of clarinet players. The legitimate player goes for the tone and a traditional mouthpiece with close facing, tapering sidewalls, narrow throat, and low baffle all contributing to this.

      On the other hand a Jazz player may want to escape from this tonal concept and brighten the tone with a raised baffle floor, more open tip for greater expression etc.

      This approach certainly alters the tone and gives the clarinet a sound, somewhere between a legitimate clarinet and a soprano sax.
      I like both but have always pursued the latter.

      My own experiments suggest that a roll over baffle is ok. A wedge chokes off a free blow. The narrow chamber focuses the sound but an old Larsen that Berg made for me (60/0M) back in the fifties, has a long raised baffle floor with a slight hollow at the chamber end and a rounding of the chamber walls. It is a great Jazz piece if you have sax chops for it but not for a legitimate embouchure.

      I think some sax MPC design features will work on a clarinet MPC if not overdone.
      Like you Steve, I wish to see more info on clarinet mouthpiece design, but it does not seem to be in the public domain.

      ..Eddie.
    • oricmuso
      ... Thanks for the reply Eddie. I have a particular jazz fan who pursues the elusive rich, dark tone , but as a jazz player he likes a wide tip opening. He
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 7, 2010
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        --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Edward McLean" <ed@...> wrote:

        > The problem to me seems to be the differing requirements of clarinet players. The legitimate player goes for the tone and a traditional mouthpiece with close facing, tapering sidewalls, narrow throat, and low baffle all contributing to this.
        >
        > On the other hand a Jazz player may want to escape from this tonal concept and brighten the tone with a raised baffle floor, more open tip for greater expression etc.
        >
        > This approach certainly alters the tone and gives the clarinet a sound, somewhere between a legitimate clarinet and a soprano sax.
        > I like both but have always pursued the latter.
        >
        > My own experiments suggest that a roll over baffle is ok. A wedge chokes off a free blow. The narrow chamber focuses the sound but an old Larsen that Berg made for me (60/0M) back in the fifties, has a long raised baffle floor with a slight hollow at the chamber end and a rounding of the chamber walls. It is a great Jazz piece if you have sax chops for it but not for a legitimate embouchure.
        >
        > I think some sax MPC design features will work on a clarinet MPC if not overdone.
        > Like you Steve, I wish to see more info on clarinet mouthpiece design, but it does not seem to be in the public domain.
        >
        > ..Eddie.

        Thanks for the reply Eddie.
        I have a particular jazz fan who pursues the elusive "rich, dark tone", but as a jazz player he likes a wide tip opening. He uses a 5JB or sometimes B45lyre.
        I've experimented opening up mouthpieces to make them darker and it seems to lose focus and not get particularly darker.
        The online info seems to vary. I've looked at wide bore instruments which reportedly give a darker tone and narrower bore ones which spout the same virtues.
        From what I can gather the wider bores should give the tone he is after but I've not found any mouthpiece options help particularly.

        I've only ever dabbled in Mp refacing so it's all a bit of guesswork for me. I can get my tenor Link to play the way I want but clarinet pieces don't work tone-wise. I can open the tip etc but I can't figure out how to get the internals to respond.
      • Edward McLean
        ... ...Large bore clarinets were the norm in the first half of the xx century and used by Shaw & Goodman who used legitimate or classic mouthpieces with
        Message 3 of 4 , Jul 8, 2010
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          --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "oricmuso" <steve.m@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com, "Edward McLean" <ed@> wrote:
          >

          >
          > Thanks for the reply Eddie.
          > I have a particular jazz fan who pursues the elusive "rich, dark tone", but as a jazz player he likes a wide tip opening. He uses a 5JB or sometimes B45lyre.
          > I've experimented opening up mouthpieces to make them darker and it seems to lose focus and not get particularly darker.
          > The online info seems to vary. I've looked at wide bore instruments which reportedly give a darker tone and narrower bore ones which spout the same virtues.
          > From what I can gather the wider bores should give the tone he is after but I've not found any mouthpiece options help particularly.
          >
          > I've only ever dabbled in Mp refacing so it's all a bit of guesswork for me. I can get my tenor Link to play the way I want but clarinet pieces don't work tone-wise. I can open the tip etc but I can't figure out how to get the internals to respond.
          >
          ...Large bore clarinets were the norm in the first half of the xx century and used by Shaw & Goodman who used legitimate or 'classic' mouthpieces with short to medium lay lengths and tip openings around 46. I don't think today's players would accept anything less tone wise, even with the trend to smaller bores.

          I have found that playing a classic MPC with very long lay and close tip & a suitably hard reed gives this traditional 'woody' sound, an easy blow top to bottom, but little room for expression in any jazz style.
          If this is not the round sound you are describing, then I have found that medium/long lay coupled with an open tip gives a 'round' sound. This is smooth and brings to mind players like Tony Scott, Pee Wee Russell & Bobby Gordon. I tried this for a time, but decide that articulation was too sluggish and intonation suffered unless masked by the use of vibrato. I think this is fine if you are a N.O./Dixie stylist. The 5JB & Rico Royal A7 would be in this category. The Rico has a large bore by the way. I am sure I have read somewhere, that you can use a large bore MPC on a smaller bore clarinet but not the reverse.
          These are my own observations and not based on any superior knowledge.
          Eddie
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