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Re: [MouthpieceWork] Digest Number 40

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  • Paul Coats
    Yeah, I agree! It is one thing to make one great mouthpiece... and quite another to make 500 more just like it. I would suppose you could say where the art
    Message 1 of 2 , Jun 2, 2002
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      Yeah, I agree!  It is one thing to make one great mouthpiece... and quite another to make 500 more just like it.

      I would suppose you could say where the art enters in, is what the manufacturer did in order to make the his product manufactureable, and still retain the characteristics that the player wants to buy.  And for any mfg that can do that, I have utmost respect.

      Paul

      Phil Barone wrote:

       Paul,

      I don't think I've ever seen one that was one piece but I might very well
      have.  I assume if they were cast that they would be one piece.

      The problem with consistency comes from quite a few variables, one is the
      height of the table.  Since the forgings or castings are kind of rough, it
      takes multiple passes with the facing machine ( I use a CNC machine) to get
      an even surface on the table.  What this translates to is that the baffles
      and chambers are higher or lower.  If you look at good older Links, you'll
      see that the area around the u shaped part of the window is thinner and this
      is not a result of it being filed up from the inside, it's a result of the
      table being machined down.  Thus, the play more responsive and generally are
      a little brighter than new Links.

      Now, if you look at the new Links, you'll find that they're quite thick
      there.  That's because when the blank is in the vise, there's a lot of
      pressure on the table and it can crack so Babbit makes them heftier to avoid
      waste.  I can't tell you how many pieces I waste because the crack at the
      thin part of the window.

      When, I was green behind the ears, I spent a lot of time speculating why
      mouthpiece makers did this or that, now after twenty years at it and some
      engineering classes, I realize that much of what goes into a product is
      determined by 1) the manufacturing process, and 2) cost effectiveness.
      Knowing this, when looking for a Link, look for the one that is thinner by
      the u shaped part of the window BUT ultimately go for what plays the best.
      Phil Barone
       

                        For all your mouthpiece needs
                             WWW.PhilBarone.com
      WE HAVE THE LOWEST PRICES ON BAM CASES!
                         PhilBarone@...
                               PH: (212) 686-9410
      Incredible Jazz photography at www.ViolaineLenoir.com
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
      To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 7:03 AM
      Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Digest Number 40
       

      >
      > Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the
      Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
      >
      > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      > There are 2 messages in this issue.
      >
      > Topics in this digest:
      >
      >       1. Re: Digest Number 39
      >            From: "Phil Barone" <PhilBarone@...>
      >       2. Re: Digest Number 39
      >            From: Paul Coats <tenorman@...>
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 1
      >    Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 14:51:55 -0700
      >    From: "Phil Barone" <PhilBarone@...>
      > Subject: Re: Digest Number 39
      >
      > Paul, the initial halves are made from forging.  A very heavy weight
      presses
      > them into a mold.  I use investment casting which raises cost considerably
      > and is extremely difficult but my chambers are very symmetrical. Phil
      >
      >
      >                   For all your mouthpiece needs
      >                        WWW.PhilBarone.com
      > WE HAVE THE LOWEST PRICES ON BAM CASES!
      >                    PhilBarone@...
      >                          PH: (212) 686-9410
      > Incredible Jazz photography at www.ViolaineLenoir.com
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
      > To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 11:57 AM
      > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Digest Number 39
      >
      >
      > >
      > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
      MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
      > >
      > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
      the
      > Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
      > >
      > > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > >
      > > There is 1 message in this issue.
      > >
      > > Topics in this digest:
      > >
      > >       1. Re: Digest Number 37
      > >            From: Paul Coats <tenorman@...>
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________________________________________________
      > > ________________________________________________________________________
      > >
      > > Message: 1
      > >    Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 12:21:16 -0500
      > >    From: Paul Coats <tenorman@...>
      > > Subject: Re: Digest Number 37
      > >
      > > I believe the two halves of Links were (don't know about now) sandcast,
      > > and brazed or soldered.  Then machined to clean up.  That all makes for
      > > a number of places where there are variables.  Must make it difficult to
      > > make it consistent from sample to sample.
      > >
      > > Paul
      > >
      > > Phil Barone wrote:
      > >
      > > >  All Links are soldered together. I personally don't like that method
      > > > because
      > > > the can become very uneven.  Phil
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >                   For all your mouthpiece needs
      > > >                        WWW.PhilBarone.com
      > > > WE HAVE THE LOWEST PRICES ON BAM CASES!
      > > >                    PhilBarone@...
      > > >                          PH: (212) 686-9410
      > > > Incredible Jazz photography at www.ViolaineLenoir.com
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
      > > > To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
      > > > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 1:03 AM
      > > > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Digest Number 37
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
      > > > MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
      > > > >
      > > > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to
      > > > see the
      > > > Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
      > > > >
      > > > > To see and modify your groups, go to
      > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
      > > > >
      > >
      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > There is 1 message in this issue.
      > > > >
      > > > > Topics in this digest:
      > > > >
      > > > >       1. Newer Metal Links
      > > > >            From: "kwbradbury" <kwbradbury@...>
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Message: 1
      > > > >    Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 16:21:04 -0000
      > > > >    From: "kwbradbury" <kwbradbury@...>
      > > > > Subject: Newer Metal Links
      > > > >
      > > > > I have not looked at a lot of Links.  I just got a used newer STM
      > > > > 6*.  Along the center inside the baffle/chamber there is a ridge.
      > > > > Instead of a nice gentle arch, there are like two arches.
      > > > >
      > > > > Are these MPs still cast in two halves and then joined somehow?  If
      > > > > so, what I am seeing is just some sloppy work on smoothing out the
      > > > > seam.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
      > > > MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
      > > >
      > > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
      > > > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
      > > >
      > > > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
      > > >
      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      > >
      > > --
      > > Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":
      > >
      > >   http://www.saxontheweb.net
      > >
      > > or directly to Paul's articles at:
      > >
      > >   http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/
      > >
      > > Listen to Paul's MP3's at:
      > >
      > >                 http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952
      > >
      > > and view photos.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [This message contained attachments]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ________________________________________________________________________
      > > ________________________________________________________________________
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 2
      >    Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 14:47:01 -0500
      >    From: Paul Coats <tenorman@...>
      > Subject: Re: Digest Number 39
      >
      > Phil, I had read something somewhere, about Links, that way way back
      > they were sandcast.  I would be surprised if they were still made that
      > way.
      >
      > Yes, more than anything, a manufacturer needs sample to sample
      > consistency in order to maintain a reputation for quality.  A guy needs
      > to know, if I try my friend's SuperSax special, and I order one, will it
      > play the same?  You can't have a customer going through a dozen samples
      > to find the one good one.  They ALL have to be good.  The player
      > deserves nothing less.
      >
      >
      >
      > Phil Barone wrote:
      >
      > >  Paul, the initial halves are made from forging.  A very heavy weight
      > > presses
      > > them into a mold.  I use investment casting which raises cost
      > > considerably
      > > and is extremely difficult but my chambers are very symmetrical. Phil
      > >
      > >
      > >                   For all your mouthpiece needs
      > >                        WWW.PhilBarone.com
      > > WE HAVE THE LOWEST PRICES ON BAM CASES!
      > >                    PhilBarone@...
      > >                          PH: (212) 686-9410
      > > Incredible Jazz photography at www.ViolaineLenoir.com
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
      > > To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 11:57 AM
      > > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Digest Number 39
      > >
      > >
      > > >
      > > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
      > > MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
      > > >
      > > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to
      > > see the
      > > Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
      > > >
      > > > To see and modify your groups, go to
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
      > > >
      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > >
      > > >
      > > > There is 1 message in this issue.
      > > >
      > > > Topics in this digest:
      > > >
      > > >       1. Re: Digest Number 37
      > > >            From: Paul Coats <tenorman@...>
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > ________________________________________________________________________
      > >
      > > >
      > > ________________________________________________________________________
      > >
      > > >
      > > > Message: 1
      > > >    Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 12:21:16 -0500
      > > >    From: Paul Coats <tenorman@...>
      > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number 37
      > > >
      > > > I believe the two halves of Links were (don't know about now)
      > > sandcast,
      > > > and brazed or soldered.  Then machined to clean up.  That all makes
      > > for
      > > > a number of places where there are variables.  Must make it
      > > difficult to
      > > > make it consistent from sample to sample.
      > > >
      > > > Paul
      > > >
      > > > Phil Barone wrote:
      > > >
      > > > >  All Links are soldered together. I personally don't like that
      > > method
      > > > > because
      > > > > the can become very uneven.  Phil
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >                   For all your mouthpiece needs
      > > > >                        WWW.PhilBarone.com
      > > > > WE HAVE THE LOWEST PRICES ON BAM CASES!
      > > > >                    PhilBarone@...
      > > > >                          PH: (212) 686-9410
      > > > > Incredible Jazz photography at www.ViolaineLenoir.com
      > > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > > From: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > To: <MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 1:03 AM
      > > > > Subject: [MouthpieceWork] Digest Number 37
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
      > > > > MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork
      > > to
      > > > > see the
      > > > > Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > To see and modify your groups, go to
      > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > >
      > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > There is 1 message in this issue.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Topics in this digest:
      > > > > >
      > > > > >       1. Newer Metal Links
      > > > > >            From: "kwbradbury" <kwbradbury@...>
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > ________________________________________________________________________
      > >
      > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > ________________________________________________________________________
      > >
      > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Message: 1
      > > > > >    Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 16:21:04 -0000
      > > > > >    From: "kwbradbury" <kwbradbury@...>
      > > > > > Subject: Newer Metal Links
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I have not looked at a lot of Links.  I just got a used newer
      > > STM
      > > > > > 6*.  Along the center inside the baffle/chamber there is a
      > > ridge.
      > > > > > Instead of a nice gentle arch, there are like two arches.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Are these MPs still cast in two halves and then joined somehow?
      > > If
      > > > > > so, what I am seeing is just some sloppy work on smoothing out
      > > the
      > > > > > seam.
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > ________________________________________________________________________
      > >
      > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > ________________________________________________________________________
      > >
      > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
      > > > > MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
      > > > >
      > > > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to
      > > see
      > > > > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
      > > > >
      > > > > To see and modify your groups, go to
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
      > > > >
      > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      > > Service.
      > > >
      > > > --
      > > > Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":
      > > >
      > > >   http://www.saxontheweb.net
      > > >
      > > > or directly to Paul's articles at:
      > > >
      > > >   http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/
      > > >
      > > > Listen to Paul's MP3's at:
      > > >
      > > >                 http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952
      > > >
      > > > and view photos.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [This message contained attachments]
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > ________________________________________________________________________
      > >
      > > >
      > > ________________________________________________________________________
      > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      >                         ADVERTISEMENT
      >
      >
      > >
      > > Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to
      > > MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com
      > >
      > > Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see
      > > the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.
      > >
      > > To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      >
      > --
      > Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":
      >
      >   http://www.saxontheweb.net
      >
      > or directly to Paul's articles at:
      >
      >   http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/
      >
      > Listen to Paul's MP3's at:
      >
      >                 http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952
      >
      > and view photos.
      >
      >
      >
      > [This message contained attachments]
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
       


      Got a Mouthpiece Work question?  Send it to MouthpieceWork@yahoogroups.com

      Visit the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MouthpieceWork to see the Files, Photos and Bookmarks relating to Mouthpiece Work.

      To see and modify your groups, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups

      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

      --
      Link to Paul's articles from Home page of "Sax on the Web":

        http://www.saxontheweb.net

      or directly to Paul's articles at:

        http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/

      Listen to Paul's MP3's at:

                      http://briefcase.yahoo.com/tenorman1952

      and view photos.
       

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