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Re: [Model_Railroads_Of_Southern_California] TURNOUT RECOMMENDATION REQUEST

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  • as730-1@lafn.org
    Hi Bill, Congrats on your new layout project! I ve heard good reviews regarding both Micro Engineering and Peco turnouts, mixed reviews for Atlas and numerous
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 1, 2008
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      Hi Bill,

      Congrats on your new layout project! I've heard good reviews regarding both
      Micro Engineering and Peco turnouts, mixed reviews for Atlas and numerous
      problems regarding Shinohara. My recommendation would be to continue to try
      very hard to find some way to work your plan so that you would have access to
      those turnouts in your staging trackage though.

      Lee Christopher
      McCoud Railway - El Segundo Extension


      ____________________________

      Hello Group,

      I am starting construction of my first layout in over 20 years. And I am
      finding that the hardware associated with the hobby has changed and improved
      in that time. The background for the question is as follows:

      The present layout (HO Scale) has three turnouts that are in hidden, or
      staging, trackage. While the intent is to construct the "on-stage" trackage
      hand laid, the hidden trackage is to be flex track. I am using code 70 rail
      size. I am looking at installing #6 or longer turnouts on these staging
      tracks. These turnouts must be very reliable as they will be difficult to
      access once the layout has scenery. (Yes, I am still worrying how to improve
      this condition)

      And the question is:

      Based upon the experience that this group has, what would be your
      recommendations as to manufacture and model of ready to lay turnouts for these
      three locations ?

      Thanks,
      -- Bill Keene
      Irvine, CA




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    • billkeene2004
      Hello Group, I am starting construction of my first layout in over 20 years. And I am finding that the hardware associated with the hobby has changed and
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 1, 2008
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        Hello Group,

        I am starting construction of my first layout in over 20 years. And I am finding that the
        hardware associated with the hobby has changed and improved in that time. The
        background for the question is as follows:

        The present layout (HO Scale) has three turnouts that are in hidden, or staging, trackage.
        While the intent is to construct the "on-stage" trackage hand laid, the hidden trackage is
        to be flex track. I am using code 70 rail size. I am looking at installing #6 or longer
        turnouts on these staging tracks. These turnouts must be very reliable as they will be
        difficult to access once the layout has scenery. (Yes, I am still worrying how to improve
        this condition)

        And the question is:

        Based upon the experience that this group has, what would be your recommendations as
        to manufacture and model of ready to lay turnouts for these three locations?

        Thanks,
        -- Bill Keene
        Irvine, CA
      • Stuart Mitchell
        HI.. I would just hand lay the points say #6 or #8 and use micro-enginering code 70 flex track. Stuart in OZ ... From: billkeene2004 To:
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 1, 2008
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          HI..
           
          I would just hand lay the points say #6 or #8 and use micro-enginering code 70 flex track.
           
          Stuart in OZ
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 3:18 AM
          Subject: [Model_Railroads_Of_Southern_California] TURNOUT RECOMMENDATION REQUEST

          Hello Group,

          I am starting construction of my first layout in over 20 years. And I am finding that the
          hardware associated with the hobby has changed and improved in that time. The
          background for the question is as follows:

          The present layout (HO Scale) has three turnouts that are in hidden, or staging, trackage.
          While the intent is to construct the "on-stage" trackage hand laid, the hidden trackage is
          to be flex track. I am using code 70 rail size. I am looking at installing #6 or longer
          turnouts on these staging tracks. These turnouts must be very reliable as they will be
          difficult to access once the layout has scenery. (Yes, I am still worrying how to improve
          this condition)

          And the question is:

          Based upon the experience that this group has, what would be your recommendations as
          to manufacture and model of ready to lay turnouts for these three locations?

          Thanks,
          -- Bill Keene
          Irvine, CA

        • A.W. Wallace
          Dear Mr. Keene: I use Code 70 on my home layout, and have scratch-built about 40 switches. That way you will know they are reliable and in gauge. (I have seen
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 1, 2008
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            Dear Mr. Keene: I use Code 70 on my home layout, and have scratch-built about 40 switches. That way you will know they are reliable and in gauge. (I have seen commercial turnouts that were so far out-of-gauge they were unusable). Turnouts hidden by scenery should have enough room above them to work on them comfortably, and plenty of room underneath to work on the machine. Be sure to spike both side of the rail in every tie, so heat and cold expansion and contraction will have the least effect. If I can provide further information, please contact me by E-mail.

            billkeene2004 <wakeene@...> wrote:
            Hello Group,

            I am starting construction of my first layout in over 20 years. And I am finding that the
            hardware associated with the hobby has changed and improved in that time. The
            background for the question is as follows:

            The present layout (HO Scale) has three turnouts that are in hidden, or staging, trackage.
            While the intent is to construct the "on-stage" trackage hand laid, the hidden trackage is
            to be flex track. I am using code 70 rail size. I am looking at installing #6 or longer
            turnouts on these staging tracks. These turnouts must be very reliable as they will be
            difficult to access once the layout has scenery. (Yes, I am still worrying how to improve
            this condition)

            And the question is:

            Based upon the experience that this group has, what would be your recommendations as
            to manufacture and model of ready to lay turnouts for these three locations?

            Thanks,
            -- Bill Keene
            Irvine, CA


          • Jeff Smith
            AW, Should you not spike every tie anyway? At the Slim Gauge Guild on the Sn3 side we spiked every tie and used code 70 rail. Talk about bullet proof. Does
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 1, 2008
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              AW,

               

              Should you not spike every tie anyway?  At the Slim Gauge Guild on the Sn3 side we spiked every tie and used code 70 rail.  Talk about bullet proof.

              Does not everyone spike every tie when hand laying track?

               

              Jeff Smith

              RailMaster Hobbies

              Lakewood, CA

              www.railmasterhobbies.com

               

              From: Model_Railroads_Of_Southern_California@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Model_Railroads_Of_Southern_California@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A.W. Wallace
              Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 4:02 PM
              To: Model_Railroads_Of_Southern_California@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Model_Railroads_Of_Southern_California] TURNOUT RECOMMENDATION REQUEST

               

              Dear Mr. Keene: I use Code 70 on my home layout, and have scratch-built about 40 switches. That way you will know they are reliable and in gauge. (I have seen commercial turnouts that were so far out-of-gauge they were unusable). Turnouts hidden by scenery should have enough room above them to work on them comfortably, and plenty of room underneath to work on the machine. Be sure to spike both side of the rail in every tie, so heat and cold expansion and contraction will have the least effect. If I can provide further information, please contact me by E-mail.

            • Bob Chaparro
              I ve used Walthers Code 83 turnouts on three different layouts dating back to 1997 without any problems. These are made by Shinohara. The more recent
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 1, 2008
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                I've used Walthers Code 83 turnouts on three different layouts dating
                back to 1997 without any problems. These are made by Shinohara. The
                more recent Walthers turnouts I've used are made for use with DCC.

                The Orange County Module Railroaders use Peco Code 100 turnouts and
                these have worked well. This is especially significant because the
                modules are subject to vibration and impact from frequent set-
                ups/moving and the club members use their fingers to throw these non-
                powered turnouts.

                Bob Chaparro
                Moderator

                =======================

                --- In
                Model_Railroads_Of_Southern_California@yahoogroups.com, "billkeene2004
                " <wakeene@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Group,
                >
                > I am starting construction of my first layout in over 20 years. And
                I am finding that the
                > hardware associated with the hobby has changed and improved in that
                time. The
                > background for the question is as follows:
                >
                > The present layout (HO Scale) has three turnouts that are in
                hidden, or staging, trackage.
                > While the intent is to construct the "on-stage" trackage hand laid,
                the hidden trackage is
                > to be flex track. I am using code 70 rail size. I am looking at
                installing #6 or longer
                > turnouts on these staging tracks. These turnouts must be very
                reliable as they will be
                > difficult to access once the layout has scenery. (Yes, I am still
                worrying how to improve
                > this condition)
                >
                > And the question is:
                >
                > Based upon the experience that this group has, what would be your
                recommendations as
                > to manufacture and model of ready to lay turnouts for these three
                locations?
                >
                > Thanks,
                > -- Bill Keene
                > Irvine, CA
                >
              • A.W. Wallace
                Dear Mr.Smith: I used a Kadee spiker machine, but did not spike every tie on Code 70 rail. I also found that very careful adjustment of the spiker was required
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 1, 2008
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                  Dear Mr.Smith: I used a Kadee spiker machine, but did not spike every tie on Code 70 rail. I also found that very careful adjustment of the spiker was required to avoid a downward kink in the Code 70 rail when it was triggered. Then I drove the spikes just hard enough to seat them well, and finished with needle nose pliers, (just like the old days). I once belonged to a Club that installed the rail directly on plywood, and drilled a hole for every spike. An example of infinite patience. When building a layout alone, 4 spikes per tie is a bit much.

                  Jeff Smith <jeff@...> wrote:
                  AW,
                  Should you not spike every tie anyway?  At the Slim Gauge Guild on the Sn3 side we spiked every tie and used code 70 rail.  Talk about bullet proof.
                  Does not everyone spike every tie when hand laying track?
                  Jeff Smith
                  RailMaster Hobbies
                  Lakewood, CA
                  From: Model_Railroads_ Of_Southern_ California@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Model_ Railroads_ Of_Southern_ California@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of A.W. Wallace
                  Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 4:02 PM
                  To: Model_Railroads_ Of_Southern_ California@ yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: Re: [Model_Railroads_ Of_Southern_ California] TURNOUT RECOMMENDATION REQUEST
                  Dear Mr. Keene: I use Code 70 on my home layout, and have scratch-built about 40 switches. That way you will know they are reliable and in gauge. (I have seen commercial turnouts that were so far out-of-gauge they were unusable). Turnouts hidden by scenery should have enough room above them to work on them comfortably, and plenty of room underneath to work on the machine. Be sure to spike both side of the rail in every tie, so heat and cold expansion and contraction will have the least effect. If I can provide further information, please contact me by E-mail.

                • as730-1@lafn.org
                  Jeff and the Others in this Discussion, I spike every fourth tie on my curve and tangent track and every other or maybe every third tie on my turnouts (37
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 2, 2008
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                    Jeff and the Others in this Discussion,

                    I spike every fourth tie on my curve and tangent track and every other or
                    maybe every third tie on my turnouts (37 scratch built in HO standard guage in
                    codes 83, 70 and 55). However, I also drill at least one #73 hole through the
                    outside foot of each turnout rail piece and drive a spike through it to keep
                    the rail from translating lengthwise and I also put a tiny drop of CA on each
                    spike head to further secure the rails/spikes/ties. So far I've had excellent
                    reliability on a garage layout with no thermal/environmental controls. I
                    DON'T think I would be comfortable using my methods for permanently
                    inaccessable turnouts though so the spike every tie method sounds excellent if
                    it's going to be for hidden trackage especially. No such thing as "too
                    bulletproof" for hidden trackage!

                    Lee Christopher
                    McCloud Railway - El Segundo Extension


                    > AW,
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Should you not spike every tie anyway? At the Slim Gauge Guild on the Sn3
                    > side we spiked every tie and used code 70 rail. Talk about bullet proof.
                    >
                    > Does not everyone spike every tie when hand laying track?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Jeff Smith
                    >
                    > RailMaster Hobbies
                    >
                    > Lakewood, CA
                    >
                    > www.railmasterhobbies.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > From: Model_Railroads_Of_Southern_California@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:Model_Railroads_Of_Southern_California@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    > A.W. Wallace
                    > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 4:02 PM
                    > To: Model_Railroads_Of_Southern_California@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [Model_Railroads_Of_Southern_California] TURNOUT RECOMMENDATION
                    > REQUEST
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Dear Mr. Keene: I use Code 70 on my home layout, and have scratch-built
                    > about 40 switches. That way you will know they are reliable and in gauge. (I
                    > have seen commercial turnouts that were so far out-of-gauge they were
                    > unusable). Turnouts hidden by scenery should have enough room above them to
                    > work on them comfortably, and plenty of room underneath to work on the
                    > machine. Be sure to spike both side of the rail in every tie, so heat and
                    > cold expansion and contraction will have the least effect. If I can provide
                    > further information, please contact me by E-mail.
                    >
                    >


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                  • Rick Howland
                    Hi back at you, You can hand lay the Micro-trains code 70 if you desire. Code #6 in my opinion is the minimum you should use. You have fun and enjoy your
                    Message 9 of 14 , Apr 2, 2008
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                       Hi back at you,

                      You can hand lay the Micro-trains code 70 if you desire.   Code #6 in my opinion is the minimum you should use.  

                      You have fun and enjoy your project.   Nothing like it for relaxing or at least getting your mind off of other things if only for a minute or two.

                      Rick Howland
                      aka Barstow Rick

                      Stuart Mitchell <stuartm@...> wrote:
                       
                      I would just hand lay the points say #6 or #8 and use micro-enginering code 70 flex track.
                       
                      Stuart in OZ
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 3:18 AM
                      Subject: [Model_Railroads_ Of_Southern_ California] TURNOUT RECOMMENDATION REQUEST

                      Hello Group,

                      I am starting construction of my first layout in over 20 years. And I am finding that the
                      hardware associated with the hobby has changed and improved in that time. The
                      background for the question is as follows:

                      The present layout (HO Scale) has three turnouts that are in hidden, or staging, trackage.
                      While the intent is to construct the "on-stage" trackage hand laid, the hidden trackage is
                      to be flex track. I am using code 70 rail size. I am looking at installing #6 or longer
                      turnouts on these staging tracks. These turnouts must be very reliable as they will be
                      difficult to access once the layout has scenery. (Yes, I am still worrying how to improve
                      this condition)

                      And the question is:

                      Based upon the experience that this group has, what would be your recommendations as
                      to manufacture and model of ready to lay turnouts for these three locations?

                      Thanks,
                      -- Bill Keene
                      Irvine, CA




                      Feel free to visit the HP Railroad
                      http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/3987/sort/4/sl/b

                      From Big Bear Lake, CA
                      Rick Howland
                      aka BarstowRick
                       
                    • JD
                      Well, I will wade in here with an opinion also. Im a bit amazed and pleased to see so many responses mentioning hand laid track. It really does look nice, and
                      Message 10 of 14 , Apr 2, 2008
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                        Well, I will wade in here with an opinion also. Im a bit amazed and
                        pleased to see so many responses mentioning hand laid track. It
                        really does look nice, and I will advise doing the same with the
                        turnouts.

                        I am modeling in On3, code 83 rail, and I recently bought a Fast
                        Tracks turnout jig. Actually Randy and I went in together on it which
                        lessens the cost. I cant say enough about how great these jigs are. I
                        am NOT a mechanical person at all. I thought hand laying a turnout
                        was way beyond skills I could only dream about. Not true! My first
                        turnout came out OK, there was one minor flaw which was my fault. My
                        second and third are perfect and the action on these turnouts are
                        fantastic.

                        Even though I dont recommend building staging tracks with no access,
                        I wouldnt hesitate to do it using these turnouts. Fast Tracks has
                        online videos at his website that guide you thru every phase of the
                        turnout. I also use Barge glue when hand laying my track. I put a
                        bead along the bottom of each rail, let it dry and then position the
                        rail. I then heat up the rail with my soldering iron which sets the
                        glue. Barge is a flexible glue used in the shoe industry, I get it a
                        my local Ace hardware. I also spike every 4th tie but the glue really
                        helps keep everything down good. JD.
                      • Bob Schrempp
                        I do near hand laid track with Central Valley Model Works tie strips. http://www.cvmw.com/ I would use the CVMW tie strips and turnouts for the visible stuff
                        Message 11 of 14 , Apr 2, 2008
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                          I do near hand laid track with Central Valley Model Works tie strips.

                          http://www.cvmw.com/

                          I would use the CVMW tie strips and turnouts for the visible stuff and
                          ME flex track and turnouts for the hidden tracks.


                          Bob Schrempp
                          Free-mo SLO

                          --
                          Bob Schrempp
                          mailto:bschrempp@...
                        • A.W. Wallace
                          Gluing rails is fine, until you decide to change the track layout at that point. Then is the time when you re-think your original decision. JD
                          Message 12 of 14 , Apr 2, 2008
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                            Gluing rails is fine, until you decide to change the track layout at that point. Then is the time when you re-think your original decision.

                            JD <jdmckee@...> wrote:
                            Well, I will wade in here with an opinion also. Im a bit amazed and
                            pleased to see so many responses mentioning hand laid track. It
                            really does look nice, and I will advise doing the same with the
                            turnouts.

                            I am modeling in On3, code 83 rail, and I recently bought a Fast
                            Tracks turnout jig. Actually Randy and I went in together on it which
                            lessens the cost. I cant say enough about how great these jigs are. I
                            am NOT a mechanical person at all. I thought hand laying a turnout
                            was way beyond skills I could only dream about. Not true! My first
                            turnout came out OK, there was one minor flaw which was my fault. My
                            second and third are perfect and the action on these turnouts are
                            fantastic.

                            Even though I dont recommend building staging tracks with no access,
                            I wouldnt hesitate to do it using these turnouts. Fast Tracks has
                            online videos at his website that guide you thru every phase of the
                            turnout. I also use Barge glue when hand laying my track. I put a
                            bead along the bottom of each rail, let it dry and then position the
                            rail. I then heat up the rail with my soldering iron which sets the
                            glue. Barge is a flexible glue used in the shoe industry, I get it a
                            my local Ace hardware. I also spike every 4th tie but the glue really
                            helps keep everything down good. JD.


                          • William Keene
                            Bob, That is exactly my plan. Give that man a cigar. I am still working on the hidden track turnout plan and trying to make then less of a reach. -- Bill
                            Message 13 of 14 , Apr 3, 2008
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                              Bob,

                              That is exactly my plan. 

                              "Give that man a cigar."

                              I am still working on the hidden track turnout plan and trying to make then less of a reach.

                              -- Bill Keene
                              Irvine, CA


                              On Apr 2, 2008, at 7:17 PM, Bob Schrempp wrote:

                              I do near hand laid track with Central Valley Model Works tie strips.

                              http://www.cvmw. com/

                              I would use the CVMW tie strips and turnouts for the visible stuff and 
                              ME flex track and turnouts for the hidden tracks.

                              Bob Schrempp
                              Free-mo SLO

                              -- 
                              Bob Schrempp
                              mailto:bschrempp@alumni. calpoly.edu


                            • Bob Schrempp
                              Not at all. If you use barge glue, a little lacquer thiner will looses the rail and let you take it up. Bob Schrempp Free-mo SLO ... -- Bob Schrempp
                              Message 14 of 14 , Apr 3, 2008
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                                Not at all. If you use barge glue, a little lacquer thiner will looses
                                the rail and let you take it up.


                                Bob Schrempp
                                Free-mo SLO

                                A.W. Wallace wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Gluing rails is fine, until you decide to change the track layout at
                                > that point. Then is the time when you re-think your original decision.
                                >
                                > */JD <jdmckee@...>/* wrote:
                                >
                                > Well, I will wade in here with an opinion also. Im a bit amazed and
                                > pleased to see so many responses mentioning hand laid track. It
                                > really does look nice, and I will advise doing the same with the
                                > turnouts.
                                >
                                > I am modeling in On3, code 83 rail, and I recently bought a Fast
                                > Tracks turnout jig. Actually Randy and I went in together on it which
                                > lessens the cost. I cant say enough about how great these jigs are. I
                                > am NOT a mechanical person at all. I thought hand laying a turnout
                                > was way beyond skills I could only dream about. Not true! My first
                                > turnout came out OK, there was one minor flaw which was my fault. My
                                > second and third are perfect and the action on these turnouts are
                                > fantastic.
                                >
                                > Even though I dont recommend building staging tracks with no access,
                                > I wouldnt hesitate to do it using these turnouts. Fast Tracks has
                                > online videos at his website that guide you thru every phase of the
                                > turnout. I also use Barge glue when hand laying my track. I put a
                                > bead along the bottom of each rail, let it dry and then position the
                                > rail. I then heat up the rail with my soldering iron which sets the
                                > glue. Barge is a flexible glue used in the shoe industry, I get it a
                                > my local Ace hardware. I also spike every 4th tie but the glue really
                                > helps keep everything down good. JD.
                                >
                                >
                                >

                                --
                                Bob Schrempp
                                mailto:bschrempp@...
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