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Re: [Model_Railroads_Of_Southern_California] Old Train Order Semaphore Signals

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  • michael bishop
    The Santa Fe had two types of positions for semaphores depending on what type you are talking about. First there were train order semaphore which were in front
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 30, 2007
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      The Santa Fe had two types of positions for semaphores depending on what type you are talking about. First there were train order semaphore which were in front of the station. They were two position, green and red, red was straight out or at 90 degrees form the mast and green was lowered or about 30 degrees from the mast. Since these were manually operated there was no need to worry about a power failure and the blade go to the green position.  The block control semaphores were three position green up the blade parallel to the mast, yellow was 45 degrees and red was at 90 degrees to the mast. This way if there was power failure all signals would drop to stop.


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    • Stephan Tibbetts
      Don, You might want to check with the San Diego Model Railroad Museum. They have a rather extensive library. Steve Tibbetts
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 30, 2007
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        Don,
        You might want to check with the San Diego Model Railroad Museum.  They have a rather extensive library.

        Steve Tibbetts

        On Sep 30, 2007, at 11:44 AM, sailboat_sixteen wrote:

        I am interested in making some old train order semaphore signals for
        my HO layout. Although I have not intintionally focused on a
        particular road name, my collection includes more Santa Fe locos than
        any other, so I have tried to pay attention to details pertaining to
        Santa Fe.

        I have looked at old prototype photos and see two basic types of
        semaphores: Semaphores used by the Southern Pacific Railroad that
        positioned the flag between the horizontal state and lower quadrant at
        60 degrees, and semmaphores used by the Santa Fe that used three
        states between the horizontal state, 45 degrees up into the upper
        quadrant, and the vertical state.

        Since the stop state is the horizontal state for both semmaphore
        types, this trend initially seemed logical to me since there has
        always been differences between railroads. However, my confusion
        began when I saw some old photos along the Cajon Pass, which was
        controlled by Santa Fe, that show the lower quardant type semiphore in
        use at Cajon Station in 1947. It looks to me like Santa Fe may have
        used both types of semaphores long their tracks.

        If Santa Fe did use both tpyes of semaphores, perhaps this occured
        because Santa Fe had trackage rights on some of the Southern Pacific
        track up through Tahachapi, and thus had had to use Southern Pacific
        semiphores. If anyone knows more about the history of these train
        order semiphores signs and the types used for different railroads, I
        would be interested in learning before I select a particular type to
        build for my HO layout.

        Thanks,
        Don H.
        Torrance


      • Peter Ely
        Don, BTW, in case looking at them first hand helps you, both the San Diego museum and the Santa Sue Depot ( www.santasusanadepot.org ) have operating
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 1, 2007
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          Don,
           
          BTW, in case looking at them first hand helps you, both the San Diego museum and the Santa Sue Depot ( www.santasusanadepot.org ) have operating semaphores. The Santa Sue Depot has a train order pole, a double place semaphore and a single blade semaphore,  all operable. Recently put up in the case of the Santa Sue. They're SP.
           
           
          Cheers, Peter


          From: Model_Railroads_Of_Southern_California@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Model_Railroads_Of_Southern_California@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephan Tibbetts
          Sent: September 30, 2007 4:01 PM
          To: Model_Railroads_Of_Southern_California@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Model_Railroads_Of_Southern_California] Old Train Order Semaphore Signals

          Don,
          You might want to check with the San Diego Model Railroad Museum. They have a rather extensive library.

          Steve Tibbetts
        • sailboat_sixteen
          Michael, Stephan and Peter - thank you assisting me in learning about semaphores - with my knew knowledge I am even more motivated to to try to add some to my
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 1, 2007
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            Michael, Stephan and Peter - thank you assisting me in learning about
            semaphores - with my knew knowledge I am even more motivated to to try
            to add some to my HO layout. Thanks again, Don H. Torrance.
          • A.W. Wallace
            Inquiry of the NMRA reference library resulted in the information that semaphores were first used in 1898. Perhaps you could learn the answers you wish by
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 2, 2007
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              Inquiry of the NMRA reference library resulted in the information that semaphores were first used in 1898. Perhaps you could learn the answers you wish by asking there.

              sailboat_sixteen <StillCV@...> wrote:
              I am interested in making some old train order semaphore signals for
              my HO layout. Although I have not intintionally focused on a
              particular road name, my collection includes more Santa Fe locos than
              any other, so I have tried to pay attention to details pertaining to
              Santa Fe.

              I have looked at old prototype photos and see two basic types of
              semaphores: Semaphores used by the Southern Pacific Railroad that
              positioned the flag between the horizontal state and lower quadrant at
              60 degrees, and semmaphores used by the Santa Fe that used three
              states between the horizontal state, 45 degrees up into the upper
              quadrant, and the vertical state.

              Since the stop state is the horizontal state for both semmaphore
              types, this trend initially seemed logical to me since there has
              always been differences between railroads. However, my confusion
              began when I saw some old photos along the Cajon Pass, which was
              controlled by Santa Fe, that show the lower quardant type semiphore in
              use at Cajon Station in 1947. It looks to me like Santa Fe may have
              used both types of semaphores long their tracks.

              If Santa Fe did use both tpyes of semaphores, perhaps this occured
              because Santa Fe had trackage rights on some of the Southern Pacific
              track up through Tahachapi, and thus had had to use Southern Pacific
              semiphores. If anyone knows more about the history of these train
              order semiphores signs and the types used for different railroads, I
              would be interested in learning before I select a particular type to
              build for my HO layout.

              Thanks,
              Don H.
              Torrance


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