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Re: [Mind and Brain] Re: Boosting Intelligent Design: The God Lab

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  • leonmaurer@aol.com
    yanniru@netscape.net writes:   DNA structure may be inherent in water. No need for external intelligence Yes, there s no need for external intelligence
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 31, 2006
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      yanniru@... writes:

        
      "DNA structure may be inherent in water. No need for external intelligence"

      Yes, there's no need for "external" intelligence (i.e., a supernatural personal God).  But, what does DNA structure (its twin helix form) have to do with the "intelligent" amino acid base encoding in its ladder-like steps that guides protein synthesis? 

      How could that code be expressive of the protein forms of matter if it wasn't based on the inherent
      "internal" intelligence of the source of that matter that first had to imagine (remember or experience) the forms of the proteins and then devise (or extract) the code (blueprint) that guides and controls the protein manufacturing process?  This inherent 'intelligence" apparently would have both foresight and hindsight -- since the infinite momenta of fundamental spin that is the root of subsequent matter could contain infinite information based on its potentially infinite cycles of previous phenomenal existence's.  Thus, the universe must be it's own "intelligent designer."

      As I see it, there is no imaginable way that such a causative chain of the creation of living organisms could have occurred spontaneously without a "live" guiding intelligence -- separate from the "dead" matter itself, yet still "inside" the overall universe (consisting of both consciousness and matter) -- that initiated and continues to guide it. 

      Pure chance alone (without such necessary continuous conscious oversight) -- no matter how many billions of years such protein structures might take to evolve by natural selection -- could not produce such a perfectly organized living biosphere, up to and including mankind, and the supportive ecological system we experience on Earth. 

      Such a possibility, based solely on probability or chance, violates every scientific principle of causation, conservation and symmetry, as well as the self evident fact that the universe, consisting of both consciousness and matter, is an entirely self contained and self organized continuum extending from zero to infinity -- in ever increasing divisions of time -- based on the inherent cyclic motion of fundamental spin of near infinite angular momentum or velocity at the absolute zero-point of pre cosmic primal space. 

      Therefore, it is this space that is the root of all subjective consciousness... And it's that fundamental g-force spinergy which constitutes the root of all objective matter. 

      Such a possibility of "intelligent design," does not negate Darwinian evolutionary processes -- but solely its reliance on chance mutation to evolve intelligent sentient beings.   Apparently, the whole purpose of universal evolution is to evolve intelligent Man as separate replicas of itself. This, of course, is reflected in the ancient Hermetic wisdom, "As above, so below", "The microcosm is the mirror of the macrocosm," and the biblical metaphor, "God created man in the image of himself" -- or, as I say it, "Cosmic consciousness is trying to create (with varying degrees of success and many failures) ideally intelligent man as the perfect reflection of itself."

      Because reductive scientific materialism cannot accept this fundamental basis of primal beginning and is limited by the presumptive concept that matter is causative of consciousness, and that intelligence is not a universal a priori -- is why, under the present paradigm of physics, scientists can never devise a unified field theory that resolves the contradictions between relativity and quantum mechanics... Proving (at least to every discriminative and imaginative thinker) that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts and that everything now physically or objectively existent was/is encoded in the initial "singularity" of the primal beginning, that subsequently spreads out holographically in each and every potentially conscious zero-point throughout the entire space-time continuum. 

      I conclude, therefore, that all life on Earth was predetermined prior to the moment of universal birth, and all cosmic evolution was in preparation for that possibility that was inherent in the primal beginning. 

      Best wishes,

      Leon Maurer

       



      In a message dated 12/14/06 5:49:18 PM, yanniru@... writes:

       DNA structure may be inherent in water. No need for external intelligence

      DNA-like ice 'seen' inside carbon nanotubes


           •     14:15 12 December 2006
           •     NewScientist.com news service
           •     Tom Simonite



       
      Tools

           •    


      Spectacular ice helix structures form when water molecules are squeezed into carbon nanotubes under high pressure, in computer simulations (Images: Xiao Cheng Zeng)

       


           •    




       
      Nanoscale ice formations resembling the double helices of DNA will form when water molecules are frozen inside carbon nanotubes, detailed computer simulations suggest.
      Researchers at the University of Nebraska, US, used a supercomputer to run detailed mathematical models of the behaviour of water molecules. In their simulations, they inserted the molecules into carbon nanotubes under high pressure, before cooling them to -23°C.
      The scientists were surprised to see the molecules organise themselves into "spiral staircase" arrangements similar to those of a DNA helix. "It was very unexpected," Xiao Cheng Zeng, the computational nanotechnology expert who led the research told New Scientist. "We had expected ice to form into tube structures that have been observed before inside carbon nanotubes."
      The simulations involved modelling the behaviour of water molecules packed inside nanotubes measuring between 1.35 and 1.9 nanometres in diameter, under pressures of 10 to 40,000 atmospheres. The combination of such a confined environment and such extreme pressures distorted the hydrogen bonds within each water molecule in ways never seen before, Zeng says.
      Spectacular sight
      Under most conditions the simulated molecules formed the expected tubular structures. However, those in which water was squeezed into a 1.35-nm-diametre nanotube at around 40,000 atmospheres of pressure saw ice form into a spectacular double walled ice helix (Fig. 1, right).
      The inner wall is a four-stranded helix (Fig. 2) and the outer wall consists of four double-stranded helices, each also resembling a DNA double helix (Fig. 3).
      Zeng was part of a team that previously discovered the formation of tiny tubes of ice inside carbon nanotubes in 2001, confirming computer simulations performed several years earlier. "I expect these new predictions to also be confirmed," Zeng adds. "Experimental researchers can use infrared spectroscopy or neutron scattering to look for these new structures."
      Journal reference:
      Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (DOI:10.1073_pnas.0608401104)


       
       
      -----Original Message-----
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      Sent: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 2:32 PM
      Subject: [Mind and Brain] Re: Boosting Intelligent Design: The God Lab

      It is safe to presume that both proponents and opponents of standard evolutionary theory "take to the lab" as you say below and additionally, do so with intelligent designs in mind and sometimes even creative science ideas. That being so, intelligent design/creation science is proven true ... prima facie.
       
      Just one tour of this galactic centre takes > 200,000,000 years and homo sapiens has been here for less than 1% of one round trip whether you reckon the time of homo sapiens anno urbis, from the Biblical cities or from secular anthropology as post-Neanderthal man. What kind of creation science projects do you expect in 200,000,000 years? Will the cosmic emigrants from this planet be building new planets from space stones and space dust and populating them with new species? Will they be doing what so many allegedly intelligent scientists now say God cannot do?
       
      Homo sapiens is now "evolving" into cyborg homo sapiens and how long will it be, we ask, until the creation science labs of genetic engineers and nanotechnologists start to intelligently design new species by modifying the fundamental nature of DNA?
       
      How many species of "lively stones" could be created by intelligent design? Is DNA necessary for life? Is the geological column of Andromedan paleontology the same as it is on this planet, ie DNA-based? "Clay animation" may not happen here, but elsewhere?
       
      <
      http://www.geocities.com/lively_stones_bc>
       
      Of course it is "a legitimate topic for discussion" in science classrooms. It has to do with philosophy of science, the raison d'etre of science. It has to do with having a sound MIND rather than only a robotic, calculating brain. It should be the very first course in high school science.
       
      PtP
       
       

      ----- Original Message -----
      From:
      New Scientist
      Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:25 AM
      Subject: Boosting Intelligent Design: The God Lab

      This week's top stories from the web's No.1 science and technology news service
      14 December 2006
      Dear New Scientist Reader, welcome to the New Scientist newsletter, which this week reveals the latest attempt to bolster Intelligent Design, the long shadow of the mountains of Titan, and the psychologists' opinions on the UK serial killer...


      EDITOR'S CHOICE

      Gaia Vince, Deputy Online Editor
      The God Lab
      Advocates of Intelligent Design have a new strategy; an institute in the Seattle suburb of Washington has set out to prove evolution wrong by putting science first. Opponents of evolutionary biology, trained research scientists, are taking to the lab in search of the creator's handiwork. If Intelligent Design supporters can cite more experimental research, some may conclude that it is a legitimate topic for discussion in US science classrooms. New Scientist goes and knocks on the door...MORE

      (snip)




    • Chris Lofting
      ... ... Tsk tsk Leon, you obviously lack imagination. The containment of noise allows for the derivation of order from self-referencing. The categories
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 1, 2007
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        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: MindBrain@yahoogroups.com [mailto:MindBrain@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of leonmaurer@...
        > Sent: Monday, 1 January 2007 6:13 PM
        > To: MindBrain@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [Mind and Brain] Re: Boosting Intelligent Design: The God Lab
        >
        > yanniru@... writes:
        >

        <snip>
        >
        > As I see it, there is no imaginable way that such a causative chain of the
        > creation of living organisms could have occurred spontaneously without a
        > "live" guiding intelligence -- separate from the "dead" matter itself, yet
        > still "inside" the overall universe (consisting of both consciousness and
        > matter) -- that initiated and continues to guide it.
        >

        Tsk tsk Leon, you obviously lack imagination. The containment of noise
        allows for the derivation of order from self-referencing. The categories
        that emerge from such form a language that describes themselves and that
        includes the begin-end nature of categories and so their representation of
        purpose - but at a group level - individuals are 'meaningless' at this level
        of development.

        The containment of noise occurs at all levels of development such that we
        can quickly identify isomorphisms across the levels. The self-referencing of
        purines/pyramidines have led to the development of the genetic code just as
        the self-referencing of what/where had let to the development of a code of
        categories usable to describe 'all there is' through relabelling and so
        using sameness to elicit differences.

        The development of the singular, of individual consciousness, reflects the
        development of a randomiser within the group that allows for rich diversity
        in means to achieve the purposes, goals, of the group regardless of losses
        of individuals.

        Pure chance alone elicits order and the dynamics of negative/positive
        feedback associated with the self-referencing - and so order from disorder,
        specialisation from generalisation.

        See anything on the chaos game, as well as the XOR work covered in:

        http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/properties.html

        Chris.
      • yanniru@netscape.net
        Leon, First you say that no external intelligence is neededas the DNA coding structure is inherent in matter, and then you say that a living intelligence is
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 1, 2007
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          Leon,
           
          First you say that no external intelligence is neededas the DNA coding structure is inherent in matter, and then you say that a "living intelligence' is required:
           
          How could that code be expressive of the protein forms of matter if it wasn't based on the inherent "internal" intelligence of the source of that matter that first had to imagine (remember or experience) the forms of the proteins and then devise (or extract) the code (blueprint) that guides and controls the protein manufacturing process? 
           
          As I see it, there is no imaginable way that such a causative chain of the creation of living organisms could have occurred spontaneously without a "live" guiding intelligence.
           
          It seems much more likely to me that all possible forms of life are inherent in the laws of nature, including those emergent laws we are not so aware of; and that all that is required for them to become manifest is the proper environment. That inherent nature obviates the negative argument of pure chance. Rather the 'inherent in nature' argument applies to consciousness as well. But consciousness is not the source of the laws of nature. Consciousness is the consequence of those laws.
           
          The laws of nature certainly exist. But they do not exist in space as you imply. The laws of nature are inherent in material nature. But they exist in the absence of any material manisfestation.
           
          If string physics is correct, there are 10 to the 500 power possible manisfestations of universes, all inherent in the nature of string physics. More likely to my thinking is that the mathematics of the particles of space expressed by Loop Quantum Gravity, which unifies relativity and quantum mechanics contrary to your claim of non-unification, predict a unique manisfestation which is our universe.
           
          The best,
           
          Richard
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: leonmaurer@...
          To: MindBrain@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 2:12 AM
          Subject: Re: [Mind and Brain] Re: Boosting Intelligent Design: The God Lab

          yanniru@... writes:

            
          "DNA structure may be inherent in water. No need for external intelligence"

          Yes, there's no need for "external" intelligence (i.e., a supernatural personal God).  But, what does DNA structure (its twin helix form) have to do with the "intelligent" amino acid base encoding in its ladder-like steps that guides protein synthesis? 

          How could that code be expressive of the protein forms of matter if it wasn't based on the inherent
          "internal" intelligence of the source of that matter that first had to imagine (remember or experience) the forms of the proteins and then devise (or extract) the code (blueprint) that guides and controls the protein manufacturing process?  This inherent 'intelligence" apparently would have both foresight and hindsight -- since the infinite momenta of fundamental spin that is the root of subsequent matter could contain infinite information based on its potentially infinite cycles of previous phenomenal existence's.  Thus, the universe must be it's own "intelligent designer."

          As I see it, there is no imaginable way that such a causative chain of the creation of living organisms could have occurred spontaneously without a "live" guiding intelligence -- separate from the "dead" matter itself, yet still "inside" the overall universe (consisting of both consciousness and matter) -- that initiated and continues to guide it. 

          Pure chance alone (without such necessary continuous conscious oversight) -- no matter how many billions of years such protein structures might take to evolve by natural selection -- could not produce such a perfectly organized living biosphere, up to and including mankind, and the supportive ecological system we experience on Earth. 

          Such a possibility, based solely on probability or chance, violates every scientific principle of causation, conservation and symmetry, as well as the self evident fact that the universe, consisting of both consciousness and matter, is an entirely self contained and self organized continuum extending from zero to infinity -- in ever increasing divisions of time -- based on the inherent cyclic motion of fundamental spin of near infinite angular momentum or velocity at the absolute zero-point of pre cosmic primal space. 

          Therefore, it is this space that is the root of all subjective consciousness... And it's that fundamental g-force spinergy which constitutes the root of all objective matter. 

          Such a possibility of "intelligent design," does not negate Darwinian evolutionary processes -- but solely its reliance on chance mutation to evolve intelligent sentient beings.   Apparently, the whole purpose of universal evolution is to evolve intelligent Man as separate replicas of itself. This, of course, is reflected in the ancient Hermetic wisdom, "As above, so below", "The microcosm is the mirror of the macrocosm," and the biblical metaphor, "God created man in the image of himself" -- or, as I say it, "Cosmic consciousness is trying to create (with varying degrees of success and many failures) ideally intelligent man as the perfect reflection of itself."

          Because reductive scientific materialism cannot accept this fundamental basis of primal beginning and is limited by the presumptive concept that matter is causative of consciousness, and that intelligence is not a universal a priori -- is why, under the present paradigm of physics, scientists can never devise a unified field theory that resolves the contradictions between relativity and quantum mechanics... Proving (at least to every discriminative and imaginative thinker) that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts and that everything now physically or objectively existent was/is encoded in the initial "singularity" of the primal beginning, that subsequently spreads out holographically in each and every potentially conscious zero-point throughout the entire space-time continuum. 

          I conclude, therefore, that all life on Earth was predetermined prior to the moment of universal birth, and all cosmic evolution was in preparation for that possibility that was inherent in the primal beginning. 

          Best wishes,

          Leon Maurer

           



          In a message dated 12/14/06 5:49:18 PM, yanniru@... writes:

           DNA structure may be inherent in water. No need for external intelligence

          DNA-like ice 'seen' inside carbon nanotubes


               •     14:15 12 December 2006
               •     NewScientist.com news service
               •     Tom Simonite



           
          Tools

               •    


          Spectacular ice helix structures form when water molecules are squeezed into carbon nanotubes under high pressure, in computer simulations (Images: Xiao Cheng Zeng)

           


               •    




           
          Nanoscale ice formations resembling the double helices of DNA will form when water molecules are frozen inside carbon nanotubes, detailed computer simulations suggest.
          Researchers at the University of Nebraska, US, used a supercomputer to run detailed mathematical models of the behaviour of water molecules. In their simulations, they inserted the molecules into carbon nanotubes under high pressure, before cooling them to -23°C.
          The scientists were surprised to see the molecules organise themselves into "spiral staircase" arrangements similar to those of a DNA helix. "It was very unexpected," Xiao Cheng Zeng, the computational nanotechnology expert who led the research told New Scientist. "We had expected ice to form into tube structures that have been observed before inside carbon nanotubes."
          The simulations involved modelling the behaviour of water molecules packed inside nanotubes measuring between 1.35 and 1.9 nanometres in diameter, under pressures of 10 to 40,000 atmospheres. The combination of such a confined environment and such extreme pressures distorted the hydrogen bonds within each water molecule in ways never seen before, Zeng says.
          Spectacular sight
          Under most conditions the simulated molecules formed the expected tubular structures. However, those in which water was squeezed into a 1.35-nm-diametre nanotube at around 40,000 atmospheres of pressure saw ice form into a spectacular double walled ice helix (Fig. 1, right).
          The inner wall is a four-stranded helix (Fig. 2) and the outer wall consists of four double-stranded helices, each also resembling a DNA double helix (Fig. 3).
          Zeng was part of a team that previously discovered the formation of tiny tubes of ice inside carbon nanotubes in 2001, confirming computer simulations performed several years earlier. "I expect these new predictions to also be confirmed," Zeng adds. "Experimental researchers can use infrared spectroscopy or neutron scattering to look for these new structures."
          Journal reference:
          Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (DOI:10.1073_pnas.0608401104)


           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: pay_the_piper@...
          To: newsletter-ctgzVH0MQbah0A0A0Bt@...
          Cc: Robot-for-President@yahoogroups.com; MindBrain@yahoogroups.com; New_Moon_Order@yahoogroups.com; NASANews@...; BC-FREE-MINERS-AND-MASONS@...; INTRODUCTORY-MACHINE-PSYCHOLOGY@yahoogroups.com; S.W.Hawking@...; yafi@...; comments@...; MIT-Opencourseware-Discussion@...
          Sent: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 2:32 PM
          Subject: [Mind and Brain] Re: Boosting Intelligent Design: The God Lab

          It is safe to presume that both proponents and opponents of standard evolutionary theory "take to the lab" as you say below and additionally, do so with intelligent designs in mind and sometimes even creative science ideas. That being so, intelligent design/creation science is proven true ... prima facie.
           
          Just one tour of this galactic centre takes > 200,000,000 years and homo sapiens has been here for less than 1% of one round trip whether you reckon the time of homo sapiens anno urbis, from the Biblical cities or from secular anthropology as post-Neanderthal man. What kind of creation science projects do you expect in 200,000,000 years? Will the cosmic emigrants from this planet be building new planets from space stones and space dust and populating them with new species? Will they be doing what so many allegedly intelligent scientists now say God cannot do?
           
          Homo sapiens is now "evolving" into cyborg homo sapiens and how long will it be, we ask, until the creation science labs of genetic engineers and nanotechnologists start to intelligently design new species by modifying the fundamental nature of DNA?
           
          How many species of "lively stones" could be created by intelligent design? Is DNA necessary for life? Is the geological column of Andromedan paleontology the same as it is on this planet, ie DNA-based? "Clay animation" may not happen here, but elsewhere?
           
          <
          http://www.geocities.com/lively_stones_bc>
           
          Of course it is "a legitimate topic for discussion" in science classrooms. It has to do with philosophy of science, the raison d'etre of science. It has to do with having a sound MIND rather than only a robotic, calculating brain. It should be the very first course in high school science.
           
          PtP
           
           

          ----- Original Message -----
          From:
          New Scientist
          Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:25 AM
          Subject: Boosting Intelligent Design: The God Lab

          This week's top stories from the web's No.1 science and technology news service
          14 December 2006
          Dear New Scientist Reader, welcome to the New Scientist newsletter, which this week reveals the latest attempt to bolster Intelligent Design, the long shadow of the mountains of Titan, and the psychologists' opinions on the UK serial killer...


          EDITOR'S CHOICE

          Gaia Vince, Deputy Online Editor
          The God Lab
          Advocates of Intelligent Design have a new strategy; an institute in the Seattle suburb of Washington has set out to prove evolution wrong by putting science first. Opponents of evolutionary biology, trained research scientists, are taking to the lab in search of the creator's handiwork. If Intelligent Design supporters can cite more experimental research, some may conclude that it is a legitimate topic for discussion in US science classrooms. New Scientist goes and knocks on the door...MORE

          (snip)





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        • leonmaurer@aol.com
          ... LM: Sorry Richard, but again, your response is based on a misinterpretation of what I actually said and meant. Can t you see the difference between an
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 1, 2007
          • 0 Attachment

            In a message dated 1/1/07 3:21:10 PM, yanniru@... writes:

            Leon,
             
            First you say that no external intelligence is needed as the DNA coding structure is inherent in matter, and then you say that a "living intelligence' is required:


            LM: Sorry Richard, but again, your response is based on a misinterpretation of what I actually said and meant.  Can't you see the difference between an "external" intelligence and a living "internal" one, or between the unconditioned or noumenal "source" of objective matter and the conditioned phenomenal "matter" itself?  

            The "internal" intelligence of that "living" (because it is directly accessible by consciousness) "source" I speak of (in contrast to an "external" supernatural intelligence) -- refers to the G-force or spinergy out of which the phenomenal matter fields initially radiate directly (from that infinite spin-momentum of the cosmic singularity) -- which carries the holographic interference patterns of structural information retained from its previous cycle of phenomenal existence. 

            This initial spin field
            , incidentally, corresponds to the "Akasha" spoken of in Eastern philosophical science that retains the memory of all previous cosmic experience prior to the big bang of this present cycle of its phenomenal existence.

            This experiential as well as structural "information" would include, of course, the analogous DNA codes that represents the structural blueprints for the self organized production of organic proteins necessary for the structural integrity and life sustaining functions of all sentient beings.  And, which very likely, also guides the direction and sequencing of their evolutionary development. 

            Possibly, this guidance, at least at the level of global species differentiation, may be controlled by some sort of morphogenetic field resonance process such as proposed by Rupert Sheldrake and suggested by my ABC fractally involved and interconnected, unified field theory... Whose varied levels of hyperspace enfoldment correspond closely with the multidimensional fields postulated by string theories as well as the coenergetics or electrodynamics proposed by some microlepton and aether-plasma field theories

            How could that code be expressive of the protein forms of matter if it wasn't based on the inherent "internal" intelligence of the source of that matter that first had to imagine (remember or experience) the forms of the proteins and then devise (or extract) the code (blueprint) that guides and controls the protein manufacturing process? 
             
            As I see it, there is no imaginable way that such a causative chain of the creation of living organisms could have occurred spontaneously without a "live" guiding intelligence.
             
            It seems much more likely to me that all possible forms of life are inherent in the laws of nature, including those emergent laws we are not so aware of; and that all that is required for them to become manifest is the proper environment. That inherent nature obviates the negative argument of pure chance. Rather the 'inherent in nature' argument applies to consciousness as well. But consciousness is not the source of the laws of nature. Consciousness is the consequence of those laws.

            LM:  This is much the same as what I am saying... Although, in my view consciousness, in its root nature, has nothing to do with the laws of nature -- which are determined solely by the initial spinergy or angular momentum of the zero-point of pure or absolute space that is apart from pure consciousness (raw, unmodified awareness-will) which is a fundamental quality of that empty (of form) space itself.  Therefore, those laws of nature are the consequence of the fundamental law of cycles and momenta inherent in the abstract nonlinear motion or spinergy of the statically inertial zero-point of pure consciousness.
             
            The laws of nature certainly exist. But they do not exist in space as you imply. The laws of nature are inherent in material nature. But they exist in the absence of any material manisfestation.


            LM: Yes, as shown above, I agree that the "laws of nature" themselves do not exist in raw space -- but only their determining root of fundamental spin exists there -- with or without any manifest forms of material nature.  Thus, we can say that space and its zero-point spin motion or spinergy, along with its contained encoded information, is the sole determinant of all manifest energies or forces, their relatively stable or dynamic forms of matter, and all the laws of nature that govern them and their predetermined evolutionary processes.
             
            If string physics is correct, there are 10 to the 500 power possible manifestations of universes, all inherent in the nature of string physics. More likely to my thinking is that the mathematics of the particles of space expressed by Loop Quantum Gravity, which unifies relativity and quantum mechanics contrary to your claim of non-unification, predict a unique manisfestation which is our universe.


            LM:  Actually, my ABC field theory that predicts multiple universes emanating, involving and evolving from fundamental (spherical) spin on an infinite no of axes at infinite angular velocities -- with a maximum of three axes at right angles determining each individual manifest universe -- is quite consistent with the predictions of string theory.  In no way does it disagree with QFT and other micro particle theories  -- which are limited to only considering the energies and particles related to this universe alone --  and still have yet to consider the coenergetic fields those particles are composed of and exist in, etc.

            Therefore, such multiple universes cannot be inherent in string theory but are inherent solely in the spinergy nature of fundamental space itself.  So, the 10^500 limit of potential universes, could be a sign that  the basically materialistic mathematical presumptions of string theory may be wrong -- although not necessarily its predictions of multiple enfolded hyperspace fields in this universe -- which is almost exactly what ABC field theory predicts.... Although string theory is deficient without including consciousness and the ontology of cosmogenesis -- rooted in relativity theory and based on the spinergy of the singularity -- that creates the fields it predicts.

            Since neither string nor QFT and Loop Quantum Gravity theories can show a fundamental, starting from zero, causal ontology that not only can lead to multiple universes, but also can predict the unification of all forces along with gravity in this or any other parallel universe that might appear simultaneously out of the primal spinergy -- I stand by my assertion that no scientific theory has yet come even close to a truly consistent grand unified field theory that could also be considered as a final theory of everything.  It's, therefore, my belief that when such a GUFTOE is finally accepted as being "scientific" -- its ontology will be very close to that of the ABC fractally involved holographic field theory that electrodynamically links consciousness with matter along with all the forces of nature, including gravity.

            But we'll just have to wait and see until science finally catches on to the fact that all is not matter alone, and that the universe is not governed or ruled by chance or probability. We may be caught in the vagueness of knowledge due to the indeterminacy caused by our own limited powers of observation, but I'm sure the universe knows exactly where everything stands and how it is all going to turn out at the end of this cycle of its manifest existence -- give or take a few wiggles and jiggles along the way -- most likely caused by man's self centered and conflictive group interference's based, I would say, on pig headed materialism, religious fanaticism, and blind eyed ignorance of the true nature of reality, which includes the eternality of consciousness and the all pervasive and immutable scientific (but not yet so recognized) laws of individual and group karma.  :-)

            Best wishes,

            Leon Maurer

             
            The best,
             
            Richard
             
             
            -----Original Message-----
            From: leonmaurer@...
            To: MindBrain@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 2:12 AM
            Subject: Re: [Mind and Brain] Re: Boosting Intelligent Design: The God Lab

            yanniru@... writes:

              
            "DNA structure may be inherent in water. No need for external intelligence"

            Yes, there's no need for "external" intelligence (i.e., a supernatural personal God).  But, what does DNA structure (its twin helix form) have to do with the "intelligent" amino acid base encoding in its ladder-like steps that guides protein synthesis? 

            How could that code be expressive of the protein forms of matter if it wasn't based on the inherent
            "internal" intelligence of the source of that matter that first had to imagine (remember or experience) the forms of the proteins and then devise (or extract) the code (blueprint) that guides and controls the protein manufacturing process?  This inherent 'intelligence" apparently would have both foresight and hindsight -- since the infinite momenta of fundamental spin that is the root of subsequent matter could contain infinite information based on its potentially infinite cycles of previous phenomenal existence's.  Thus, the universe must be it's own "intelligent designer."

            As I see it, there is no imaginable way that such a causative chain of the creation of living organisms could have occurred spontaneously without a "live" guiding intelligence -- separate from the "dead" matter itself, yet still "inside" the overall universe (consisting of both consciousness and matter) -- that initiated and continues to guide it. 

            Pure chance alone (without such necessary continuous conscious oversight) -- no matter how many billions of years such protein structures might take to evolve by natural selection -- could not produce such a perfectly organized living biosphere, up to and including mankind, and the supportive ecological system we experience on Earth. 

            Such a possibility, based solely on probability or chance, violates every scientific principle of causation, conservation and symmetry, as well as the self evident fact that the universe, consisting of both consciousness and matter, is an entirely self contained and self organized continuum extending from zero to infinity -- in ever increasing divisions of time -- based on the inherent cyclic motion of fundamental spin of near infinite angular momentum or velocity at the absolute zero-point of pre cosmic primal space. 

            Therefore, it is this space that is the root of all subjective consciousness... And it's that fundamental g-force spinergy which constitutes the root of all objective matter. 

            Such a possibility of "intelligent design," does not negate Darwinian evolutionary processes -- but solely its reliance on chance mutation to evolve intelligent sentient beings.   Apparently, the whole purpose of universal evolution is to evolve intelligent Man as separate replicas of itself. This, of course, is reflected in the ancient Hermetic wisdom, "As above, so below", "The microcosm is the mirror of the macrocosm," and the biblical metaphor, "God created man in the image of himself" -- or, as I say it, "Cosmic consciousness is trying to create (with varying degrees of success and many failures) ideally intelligent man as the perfect reflection of itself."

            Because reductive scientific materialism cannot accept this fundamental basis of primal beginning and is limited by the presumptive concept that matter is causative of consciousness, and that intelligence is not a universal a priori -- is why, under the present paradigm of physics, scientists can never devise a unified field theory that resolves the contradictions between relativity and quantum mechanics... Proving (at least to every discriminative and imaginative thinker) that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts and that everything now physically or objectively existent was/is encoded in the initial "singularity" of the primal beginning, that subsequently spreads out holographically in each and every potentially conscious zero-point throughout the entire space-time continuum. 

            I conclude, therefore, that all life on Earth was predetermined prior to the moment of universal birth, and all cosmic evolution was in preparation for that possibility that was inherent in the primal beginning. 

            Best wishes,

            Leon Maurer

             



            In a message dated 12/14/06 5:49:18 PM, yanniru@... writes:


             DNA structure may be inherent in water. No need for external intelligence



            DNA-like ice 'seen' inside carbon nanotubes


                 •     14:15 12 December 2006
                 •     NewScientist.com news service
                 •     Tom Simonite



             
            Tools

                 •    


            Spectacular ice helix structures form when water molecules are squeezed into carbon nanotubes under high pressure, in computer simulations (Images: Xiao Cheng Zeng)

             


                 •    




             
            Nanoscale ice formations resembling the double helices of DNA will form when water molecules are frozen inside carbon nanotubes, detailed computer simulations suggest.
            Researchers at the University of Nebraska, US, used a supercomputer to run detailed mathematical models of the behaviour of water molecules. In their simulations, they inserted the molecules into carbon nanotubes under high pressure, before cooling them to -23°C.
            The scientists were surprised to see the molecules organise themselves into "spiral staircase" arrangements similar to those of a DNA helix. "It was very unexpected," Xiao Cheng Zeng, the computational nanotechnology expert who led the research told New Scientist. "We had expected ice to form into tube structures that have been observed before inside carbon nanotubes."
            The simulations involved modelling the behaviour of water molecules packed inside nanotubes measuring between 1.35 and 1.9 nanometres in diameter, under pressures of 10 to 40,000 atmospheres. The combination of such a confined environment and such extreme pressures distorted the hydrogen bonds within each water molecule in ways never seen before, Zeng says.
            Spectacular sight
            Under most conditions the simulated molecules formed the expected tubular structures. However, those in which water was squeezed into a 1.35-nm-diametre nanotube at around 40,000 atmospheres of pressure saw ice form into a spectacular double walled ice helix (Fig. 1, right).
            The inner wall is a four-stranded helix (Fig. 2) and the outer wall consists of four double-stranded helices, each also resembling a DNA double helix (Fig. 3).
            Zeng was part of a team that previously discovered the formation of tiny tubes of ice inside carbon nanotubes in 2001, confirming computer simulations performed several years earlier. "I expect these new predictions to also be confirmed," Zeng adds. "Experimental researchers can use infrared spectroscopy or neutron scattering to look for these new structures."
            Journal reference:
            Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (DOI:10.1073_pnas.0608401104)


             
             
            -----Original Message-----
            From: pay_the_piper@...
            To: newsletter-ctgzVH0MQbah0A0A0Bt@...
            Cc: Robot-for-President@yahoogroups.com; MindBrain@yahoogroups.com; New_Moon_Order@yahoogroups.com; NASANews@...; BC-FREE-MINERS-AND-MASONS@...; INTRODUCTORY-MACHINE-PSYCHOLOGY@yahoogroups.com; S.W.Hawking@...; yafi@...; comments@...; MIT-Opencourseware-Discussion@...
            Sent: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 2:32 PM
            Subject: [Mind and Brain] Re: Boosting Intelligent Design: The God Lab

            It is safe to presume that both proponents and opponents of standard evolutionary theory "take to the lab" as you say below and additionally, do so with intelligent designs in mind and sometimes even creative science ideas. That being so, intelligent design/creation science is proven true ... prima facie.
             
            Just one tour of this galactic centre takes > 200,000,000 years and homo sapiens has been here for less than 1% of one round trip whether you reckon the time of homo sapiens anno urbis, from the Biblical cities or from secular anthropology as post-Neanderthal man. What kind of creation science projects do you expect in 200,000,000 years? Will the cosmic emigrants from this planet be building new planets from space stones and space dust and populating them with new species? Will they be doing what so many allegedly intelligent scientists now say God cannot do?
             
            Homo sapiens is now "evolving" into cyborg homo sapiens and how long will it be, we ask, until the creation science labs of genetic engineers and nanotechnologists start to intelligently design new species by modifying the fundamental nature of DNA?
             
            How many species of "lively stones" could be created by intelligent design? Is DNA necessary for life? Is the geological column of Andromedan paleontology the same as it is on this planet, ie DNA-based? "Clay animation" may not happen here, but elsewhere?
             
            <
            http://www.geocities.com/lively_stones_bc>
             
            Of course it is "a legitimate topic for discussion" in science classrooms. It has to do with philosophy of science, the raison d'etre of science. It has to do with having a sound MIND rather than only a robotic, calculating brain. It should be the very first course in high school science.
             
            PtP
             
             

            ----- Original Message -----
            From:
            New Scientist
            Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:25 AM
            Subject: Boosting Intelligent Design: The God Lab

            This week's top stories from the web's No.1 science and technology news service
            14 December 2006
            Dear New Scientist Reader, welcome to the New Scientist newsletter, which this week reveals the latest attempt to bolster Intelligent Design, the long shadow of the mountains of Titan, and the psychologists' opinions on the UK serial killer...


            EDITOR'S CHOICE

            Gaia Vince, Deputy Online Editor
            The God Lab
            Advocates of Intelligent Design have a new strategy; an institute in the Seattle suburb of Washington has set out to prove evolution wrong by putting science first. Opponents of evolutionary biology, trained research scientists, are taking to the lab in search of the creator's handiwork. If Intelligent Design supporters can cite more experimental research, some may conclude that it is a legitimate topic for discussion in US science classrooms. New Scientist goes and knocks on the door...MORE

            (snip)






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