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Question about parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie

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  • cindy_hoffner
    I recently located the elusive baptism record for my great-grandmother, Margaret Hollywood, born 1858, on the RootsIreland site. All the information is
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 29, 2014
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      I recently located the elusive baptism record for my great-grandmother, Margaret Hollywood, born 1858, on the RootsIreland site.  All the information is correct and it is definitely her.  But, I cannot figure out what church she was baptized at.


      This is what the record says:  Parish/District: Shankill; County: Co. Antrim; Denomination: Church of Ireland; Address: Ctta Mount [Cotton Mount – which is in Newtownabbey; other family members lived there as well]. 


      The list of records on rootsireland.ie includes two possibilities, and they are so similar that I cannot even figure out which churches they refer to! 1) Parish: Shankill St Anne's, Belfast; Baptisms: 1761 – 1900. 2) Parish: St Anne's, shankill; Baptisms: 1634 – 1900.  Nothing else is identified as Shankill Parish in the list of Church of Ireland records. There is also a *separate* listing for St Anne's, Belfast, Baptisms 1741 – 1875.


      FYI, the family did move from the Newtownabbey area to Belfast a few years later.


      Anyway, I cannot figure out which church she was baptized at!  Can anyone help me understand the records?


      Cindy

    • Elwyn Soutter
      Cindy, St Anne’s was the main parish church in Shankill parish. (There were other churches in the parish eg St George’s Chapel of Ease). Probably the
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 29, 2014
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        Cindy,

        St Anne’s was the main parish church in Shankill parish. (There were other churches in the parish eg St George’s Chapel of Ease). Probably the biggest parish and COI church in Belfast.  It was replaced, on the same site, by St Anne’s Cathedral in the early 1900s. It’s records have been put on several sites and my instincts are that this is where the baptism took place. 

        You could e-mail rootsireland and ask them if they can clarify what the records relate to. Or you could get someone to look up the copies in PRONI to check that way.




        Elwyn
        --------------------------------------------
        On Tue, 29/4/14, choffner@... <choffner@...> wrote:

        Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie
        To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, 29 April, 2014, 16:37


         











        I recently located the
        elusive baptism record for my
        great-grandmother, Margaret Hollywood, born 1858, on the
        RootsIreland
        site.  All the information is correct and
        it is definitely her.  But, I cannot
        figure out what church she was baptized at.

        This is what the record
        says:  Parish/District:
        Shankill; County: Co. Antrim; Denomination: Church of
        Ireland; Address: Ctta
        Mount [Cotton Mount – which is in Newtownabbey; other
        family members lived there as well]. 

        The list of
        records on rootsireland.ie includes two possibilities, and
        they are so similar that I cannot even figure out which
        churches they refer to! 1) Parish: Shankill St
        Anne's, Belfast; Baptisms:
        1761 – 1900. 2) Parish: St Anne's, shankill; Baptisms:
        1634 – 1900.  Nothing else is identified as
        Shankill
        Parish in the list of Church of Ireland records. There is
        also a *separate* listing for St Anne's, Belfast,
        Baptisms
        1741 – 1875.
        FYI, the
        family did move from the Newtownabbey area to Belfast a few
        years later.

        Anyway, I cannot figure out
        which church she was baptized at!  Can anyone
        help me understand the records?
        Cindy












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      • Cynthia A Hoffner
        Thanks, Elwyn! I may need to contact rootsireland.ie for clarification. But, do you have any idea what the difference is between the two sources below that
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 29, 2014
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          Thanks, Elwyn!  I may need to contact rootsireland.ie for clarification.

           

          But, do you have any idea what the difference is between the two sources below that are listed on rootsireland.ie (the only two Church of Ireland sources that refer to Shankill).  They must be different, right, since the baptisms cover different years?

           

          Shankill St Anne's, Belfast. Baptisms: 1761 – 1900

          St Anne's, shankill. Baptisms: 1634 – 1900

           

          And oddly, there is also this one (also Church of Ireland): St Anne's, Belfast. Baptisms: 1741 - 1875

           

          http://www.rootsireland.ie/ifhf/generic.php?filename=sources.tpl&selectedMenu=sources

           

          Last summer I visited Belfast from the US, and I went to both St. George’s Chapel of Ease (just saw the exterior) and also St. Anne’s Cathedral! St. Anne’s is a magnificent structure!

           

          Cindy

           

           

          From: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Elwyn Soutter
          Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:26 PM
          To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie

           

           

          Cindy,

          St Anne’s was the main parish church in Shankill parish. (There were other churches in the parish eg St George’s Chapel of Ease). Probably the biggest parish and COI church in Belfast.  It was replaced, on the same site, by St Anne’s Cathedral in the early 1900s. It’s records have been put on several sites and my instincts are that this is where the baptism took place. 

          You could e-mail rootsireland and ask them if they can clarify what the records relate to. Or you could get someone to look up the copies in PRONI to check that way.

          Elwyn
          --------------------------------------------

          On Tue, 29/4/14, choffner@... <choffner@...> wrote:

          Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie
          To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, 29 April, 2014, 16:37


           











          I recently located the
          elusive baptism record for my
          great-grandmother, Margaret Hollywood, born 1858, on the
          RootsIreland
          site.  All the information is correct and
          it is definitely her.  But, I cannot
          figure out what church she was baptized at.

          This is what the record
          says:  Parish/District:
          Shankill; County: Co. Antrim; Denomination: Church of
          Ireland; Address: Ctta
          Mount [Cotton Mount – which is in Newtownabbey; other
          family members lived there as well]. 

          The list of
          records on rootsireland.ie includes two possibilities, and
          they are so similar that I cannot even figure out which
          churches they refer to! 1) Parish: Shankill St
          Anne's, Belfast; Baptisms:
          1761 – 1900. 2) Parish: St Anne's, shankill; Baptisms:
          1634 – 1900.  Nothing else is identified as
          Shankill
          Parish in the list of Church of Ireland records. There is
          also a *separate* listing for St Anne's, Belfast,
          Baptisms
          1741 – 1875.
          FYI, the
          family did move from the Newtownabbey area to Belfast a few
          years later.

          Anyway, I cannot figure out
          which church she was baptized at!  Can anyone
          help me understand the records?
          Cindy












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        • Elwyn Soutter
          Cindy, Various different groups have gone through St Anne’s records over the years and later offered them to LDS. So I think that’s why there are several
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 29, 2014
          • 0 Attachment
            Cindy,

            Various different groups have gone through St Anne’s records over the years and later offered them to LDS. So I think that’s why there are several sets of records for the same church with differing years and with slightly different titles.

            When I open the two attachments you have sent both are blank on my PC. Can you send me the name and date of baptism of the person you are interested in? I will be in PRONI tomorrow and will look it up for you in the St Anne’s records.

            Glad you liked the Cathedral. I am not sure about the new spire. I don’t think it fits. But that’s another discussion! They built the Cathedral around the old St Anne’s church, and then when they were finished, they knocked the old church down and removed the waste through the new door. That way they could carry on using St Anne’s church for most of the time they were building the cathedral. They did the same thing at Killymurris church in Rasharkin, so that must have been a common way of building a bigger church at that time. I suspect Health & Safety wouldn’t be keen on that today.



            Elwyn
            --------------------------------------------
            On Tue, 29/4/14, Cynthia A Hoffner <choffner@...> wrote:

            Subject: RE: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie
            To: "Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com" <Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Tuesday, 29 April, 2014, 19:29


             













            Thanks, Elwyn!  I
            may need to contact rootsireland.ie for
            clarification.
             
            But, do you have any
            idea what the difference is between the two sources below
            that are listed on rootsireland.ie (the only two Church of
            Ireland sources that
            refer to Shankill).  They must be different, right, since
            the baptisms cover different years?

             
            Shankill St
            Anne's, Belfast. Baptisms: 1761 – 1900
            St Anne's,
            shankill. Baptisms: 1634 – 1900
             
            And oddly, there is
            also this one (also Church of Ireland): St Anne's,
            Belfast. Baptisms: 1741 - 1875
             
            http://www.rootsireland.ie/ifhf/generic.php?filename=sources.tpl&selectedMenu=sources

             
            Last summer I
            visited Belfast from the US, and I went to both St.
            George’s Chapel of Ease (just saw the exterior) and also
            St. Anne’s Cathedral! St. Anne’s
            is a magnificent structure!
             
            Cindy
             
             


            From:
            Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of Elwyn Soutter

            Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:26 PM

            To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com

            Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about
            parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie


             
             



            Cindy,



            St Anne’s was the main parish church in Shankill parish.
            (There were other churches in the parish eg St George’s
            Chapel of Ease). Probably the biggest parish and COI church
            in Belfast.  It was replaced, on the same site, by St
            Anne’s Cathedral in the early
            1900s. It’s records have been put on several sites and my
            instincts are that this is where the baptism took
            place. 



            You could e-mail rootsireland and ask them if they can
            clarify what the records relate to. Or you could get someone
            to look up the copies in PRONI to check that way.



            Elwyn

            --------------------------------------------

            On Tue, 29/4/14, choffner@... <choffner@...>
            wrote:



            Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish baptism
            records on rootsireland.ie

            To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com

            Date: Tuesday, 29 April, 2014, 16:37





             























            I recently located the

            elusive baptism record for my

            great-grandmother, Margaret Hollywood, born 1858, on the

            RootsIreland

            site.  All the information is correct and

            it is definitely her.  But, I cannot

            figure out what church she was baptized at.



            This is what the record

            says:  Parish/District:

            Shankill; County: Co. Antrim; Denomination: Church of

            Ireland; Address: Ctta

            Mount [Cotton Mount – which is in Newtownabbey; other

            family members lived there as well]. 



            The list of

            records on rootsireland.ie includes two possibilities,
            and

            they are so similar that I cannot even figure out which

            churches they refer to! 1) Parish: Shankill St

            Anne's, Belfast; Baptisms:

            1761 – 1900. 2) Parish: St Anne's, shankill;
            Baptisms:

            1634 – 1900.  Nothing else is identified as

            Shankill

            Parish in the list of Church of Ireland records. There is

            also a *separate* listing for St Anne's, Belfast,

            Baptisms

            1741 – 1875.

            FYI, the

            family did move from the Newtownabbey area to Belfast a
            few

            years later.



            Anyway, I cannot figure out

            which church she was baptized at!  Can anyone

            help me understand the records?

            Cindy

























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          • Cynthia A Hoffner
            Wow, Elwyn, that is so generous of you! Thank you. I actually did not intend to upload any attachments, not sure what those were. I have attached the record
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 29, 2014

            Wow, Elwyn, that is so generous of you!  Thank you.

             

            I actually did not intend to upload any attachments, not sure what those were.  I have attached the record from rootsireland.ie to this message and I hope it comes through.

             

            The surname was spelled Holywood rather than Hollywood, but I have seen that many time. Every other detail is correct so I am absolutely positive this is her!  I have her parents’ 1855 marriage certificate from Port Glasgow, Scotland (Newark Parish Church) and visited the church last summer – now apartments, but the structure of the building and the graveyard are intact! Her mother’s name was Orcilla Elizabeth McCutcheon, but she often went by Elizabeth. Her father William was a blacksmith.

             

            Here is a transcription:

             

            Church Baptism Record

            Name: Margaret Holywood

            Date of Birth: 14-Jul-1858

            Date of Baptism: 08-Sep-1858

            Address:  Ctta Mount

            Parish/District: Shankill

            County:  Co. Antrim

            Denomination: Church Of Ireland

            Father: William Holywood

            Mother: Elizabeth McCutcheon

            Occupation: Blacksmith

            Notes: married in Glasgow church [Scotland]; residence unclear - Ctta (?) Mount

             

            Someone else I’ve corresponded with before suggested an alternative for Ctta Mount: Cotton Court, Belfast. So if you are able to find the record I will be interested to see if it is decipherable. Margaret’s father’s family was living in Cotton Mount in 1856 (it was pretty clear on the baptism record for his youngest sister at Carnmoney Parish Church, which I found last summer), so I just assumed that must be it. I have an address for the family as of 1866 on North Thomas Street, Belfast.

             

            Interesting details about the cathedral. The spire is a bit unusual – but it makes it unique! J

             

            Thanks so much again!!!

             

            Cindy

             

            p.s., If those listings are for the SAME church, just labeled differently by different groups with different range of dates available, then that makes more sense! J

             

            From: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Elwyn Soutter
            Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 4:27 PM
            To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie

             

             

            Cindy,

            Various different groups have gone through St Anne’s records over the years and later offered them to LDS. So I think that’s why there are several sets of records for the same church with differing years and with slightly different titles.

            When I open the two attachments you have sent both are blank on my PC. Can you send me the name and date of baptism of the person you are interested in? I will be in PRONI tomorrow and will look it up for you in the St Anne’s records.

            Glad you liked the Cathedral. I am not sure about the new spire. I don’t think it fits. But that’s another discussion! They built the Cathedral around the old St Anne’s church, and then when they were finished, they knocked the old church down and removed the waste through the new door. That way they could carry on using St Anne’s church for most of the time they were building the cathedral. They did the same thing at Killymurris church in Rasharkin, so that must have been a common way of building a bigger church at that time. I suspect Health & Safety wouldn’t be keen on that today.

            Elwyn
            --------------------------------------------

            On Tue, 29/4/14, Cynthia A Hoffner <choffner@...> wrote:

            Subject: RE: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie
            To: "Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com" <Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Tuesday, 29 April, 2014, 19:29


             













            Thanks, Elwyn!  I
            may need to contact rootsireland.ie for
            clarification.
             
            But, do you have any
            idea what the difference is between the two sources below
            that are listed on rootsireland.ie (the only two Church of
            Ireland sources that
            refer to Shankill).  They must be different, right, since
            the baptisms cover different years?

             
            Shankill St
            Anne's, Belfast. Baptisms: 1761 – 1900
            St Anne's,
            shankill. Baptisms: 1634 – 1900
             
            And oddly, there is
            also this one (also Church of Ireland): St Anne's,
            Belfast. Baptisms: 1741 - 1875
             
            http://www.rootsireland.ie/ifhf/generic.php?filename=sources.tpl&selectedMenu=sources

             
            Last summer I
            visited Belfast from the US, and I went to both St.
            George’s Chapel of Ease (just saw the exterior) and also
            St. Anne’s Cathedral! St. Anne’s
            is a magnificent structure!
             
            Cindy
             
             


            From:
            Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of Elwyn Soutter

            Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:26 PM

            To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com

            Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about
            parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie


             
             



            Cindy,



            St Anne’s was the main parish church in Shankill parish.
            (There were other churches in the parish eg St George’s
            Chapel of Ease). Probably the biggest parish and COI church
            in Belfast.  It was replaced, on the same site, by St
            Anne’s Cathedral in the early
            1900s. It’s records have been put on several sites and my
            instincts are that this is where the baptism took
            place. 



            You could e-mail rootsireland and ask them if they can
            clarify what the records relate to. Or you could get someone
            to look up the copies in PRONI to check that way.



            Elwyn

            --------------------------------------------

            On Tue, 29/4/14, choffner@... <choffner@...>
            wrote:



            Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish baptism
            records on rootsireland.ie

            To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com

            Date: Tuesday, 29 April, 2014, 16:37





             























            I recently located the

            elusive baptism record for my

            great-grandmother, Margaret Hollywood, born 1858, on the

            RootsIreland

            site.  All the information is correct and

            it is definitely her.  But, I cannot

            figure out what church she was baptized at.



            This is what the record

            says:  Parish/District:

            Shankill; County: Co. Antrim; Denomination: Church of

            Ireland; Address: Ctta

            Mount [Cotton Mount – which is in Newtownabbey; other

            family members lived there as well]. 



            The list of

            records on rootsireland.ie includes two possibilities,
            and

            they are so similar that I cannot even figure out which

            churches they refer to! 1) Parish: Shankill St

            Anne's, Belfast; Baptisms:

            1761 – 1900. 2) Parish: St Anne's, shankill;
            Baptisms:

            1634 – 1900.  Nothing else is identified as

            Shankill

            Parish in the list of Church of Ireland records. There is

            also a *separate* listing for St Anne's, Belfast,

            Baptisms

            1741 – 1875.

            FYI, the

            family did move from the Newtownabbey area to Belfast a
            few

            years later.



            Anyway, I cannot figure out

            which church she was baptized at!  Can anyone

            help me understand the records?

            Cindy

























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          • Elwyn Soutter
            Cynthia, No joy, I am afraid. The baptisms for St Anne s for the 1850s are on microfilm MIC1/178 reel 25-28. There was no record of Margaret being baptised at
            Message 6 of 8 , Apr 30, 2014
            • 0 Attachment
              Cynthia,

              No joy, I am afraid.

              The baptisms for St Anne's for the 1850s are on microfilm MIC1/178 reel 25-28. There was no record of Margaret being baptised at that church on 8th September (or in the month of September). I also checked the special baptism register. (That's for baptisms not conducted in the main church, eg if the child is ill, or the parents too posh to queue up with the hoi polloi.) No sign there either. MIC1/178 reel 20.

              There's an index to St Anne's baptisms on MIC1/178 reel 13. They cover 1824 - 1866. The only Holywood baptised in that period was Thomas Holywood on 30th Dec 1857 (parents Jacob H & Eleanor Lenon).

              I also noted that the St Anne's baptisms for that period don't have the date of birth, only the date of baptism. Your information contains a date of birth, so I sense this is not the right set of records at all. I am not sure where the information comes from. I can only suggest you e-mail rootsireland and ask them. If you get a new source, let me know and I'll see if I can find the original.


              Elwyn
              --------------------------------------------
              On Tue, 29/4/14, Cynthia A Hoffner <choffner@...> wrote:

              Subject: RE: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie [1 Attachment]
              To: "Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com" <Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com>
              Date: Tuesday, 29 April, 2014, 20:51


               









              [Attachment(s) from Cynthia A Hoffner
              included below]






              Wow, Elwyn, that is
              so generous of you!  Thank you.
               
              I actually did not
              intend to upload any attachments, not sure what those
              were.  I have attached the record from rootsireland.ie to
              this message and I hope it
              comes through.
               
              The surname was
              spelled Holywood rather than Hollywood, but I have seen that
              many time. Every other detail is correct so I am absolutely
              positive this is her!
               I have her parents’ 1855 marriage certificate from Port
              Glasgow, Scotland (Newark Parish Church) and visited the
              church last summer – now apartments, but the structure of
              the building and the graveyard are intact! Her mother’s
              name was Orcilla Elizabeth McCutcheon,
              but she often went by Elizabeth. Her father William was a
              blacksmith.
               
              Here is a
              transcription:
               
              Church Baptism
              Record
              Name: Margaret
              Holywood
              Date of Birth:
              14-Jul-1858
              Date of Baptism:
              08-Sep-1858
              Address:  Ctta
              Mount
              Parish/District:
              Shankill
              County:  Co.
              Antrim
              Denomination: Church
              Of Ireland
              Father: William
              Holywood
              Mother: Elizabeth
              McCutcheon
              Occupation:
              Blacksmith

              Notes: married in
              Glasgow church [Scotland]; residence unclear - Ctta (?)
              Mount
               
              Someone else I’ve
              corresponded with before suggested an alternative for Ctta
              Mount: Cotton Court, Belfast. So if you are able to find the
              record I will be interested
              to see if it is decipherable. Margaret’s father’s
              family was living in Cotton Mount in 1856 (it was pretty
              clear on the baptism record for his youngest sister at
              Carnmoney Parish Church, which I found last summer), so I
              just assumed that must be it. I have
              an address for the family as of 1866 on North Thomas
              Street, Belfast.
               
              Interesting details
              about the cathedral. The spire is a bit unusual – but it
              makes it unique!
              J
               
              Thanks so much
              again!!!
               
              Cindy
               
              p.s., If those
              listings are for the SAME church, just labeled differently
              by different groups with different range of dates available,
              then that makes more
              sense! J
               


              From:
              Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com]
              On Behalf Of Elwyn Soutter

              Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 4:27 PM

              To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com

              Subject: RE: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about
              parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie


               
               



              Cindy,



              Various different groups have gone through St Anne’s
              records over the years and later offered them to LDS. So I
              think that’s why there are several sets of records for the
              same church with differing years and with slightly different
              titles.



              When I open the two attachments you have sent both are blank
              on my PC. Can you send me the name and date of baptism of
              the person you are interested in? I will be in PRONI
              tomorrow and will look it up for you in the St Anne’s
              records.



              Glad you liked the Cathedral. I am not sure about the new
              spire. I don’t think it fits. But that’s another
              discussion! They built the Cathedral around the old St
              Anne’s church, and then when they were finished, they
              knocked the old church down and removed the
              waste through the new door. That way they could carry on
              using St Anne’s church for most of the time they were
              building the cathedral. They did the same thing at
              Killymurris church in Rasharkin, so that must have been a
              common way of building a bigger church
              at that time. I suspect Health & Safety wouldn’t be
              keen on that today.



              Elwyn

              --------------------------------------------

              On Tue, 29/4/14, Cynthia A Hoffner <choffner@...>
              wrote:



              Subject: RE: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish
              baptism records on rootsireland.ie

              To: "Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com"
              <Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com>

              Date: Tuesday, 29 April, 2014, 19:29





               



























              Thanks, Elwyn!  I

              may need to contact rootsireland.ie for

              clarification.

               

              But, do you have any

              idea what the difference is between the two sources below

              that are listed on rootsireland.ie (the only two Church
              of

              Ireland sources that

              refer to Shankill).  They must be different, right,
              since

              the baptisms cover different years?



               

              Shankill St

              Anne's, Belfast. Baptisms: 1761 – 1900

              St Anne's,

              shankill. Baptisms: 1634 – 1900

               

              And oddly, there is

              also this one (also Church of Ireland): St Anne's,

              Belfast. Baptisms: 1741 - 1875

               

              http://www.rootsireland.ie/ifhf/generic.php?filename=sources.tpl&selectedMenu=sources



               

              Last summer I

              visited Belfast from the US, and I went to both St.

              George’s Chapel of Ease (just saw the exterior) and
              also

              St. Anne’s Cathedral! St. Anne’s

              is a magnificent structure!

               

              Cindy

               

               





              From:

              Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com

              [mailto:Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com]

              On Behalf Of Elwyn Soutter



              Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:26 PM



              To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com



              Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about

              parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie





               

               







              Cindy,







              St Anne’s was the main parish church in Shankill
              parish.

              (There were other churches in the parish eg St George’s

              Chapel of Ease). Probably the biggest parish and COI
              church

              in Belfast.  It was replaced, on the same site, by St

              Anne’s Cathedral in the early

              1900s. It’s records have been put on several sites and
              my

              instincts are that this is where the baptism took

              place. 







              You could e-mail rootsireland and ask them if they can

              clarify what the records relate to. Or you could get
              someone

              to look up the copies in PRONI to check that way.







              Elwyn



              --------------------------------------------



              On Tue, 29/4/14, choffner@...
              <choffner@...>

              wrote:







              Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish
              baptism

              records on rootsireland.ie



              To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com



              Date: Tuesday, 29 April, 2014, 16:37











               















































              I recently located the



              elusive baptism record for my



              great-grandmother, Margaret Hollywood, born 1858, on the



              RootsIreland



              site.  All the information is correct and



              it is definitely her.  But, I cannot



              figure out what church she was baptized at.







              This is what the record



              says:  Parish/District:



              Shankill; County: Co. Antrim; Denomination: Church of



              Ireland; Address: Ctta



              Mount [Cotton Mount – which is in Newtownabbey; other



              family members lived there as well]. 







              The list of



              records on rootsireland.ie includes two possibilities,

              and



              they are so similar that I cannot even figure out which



              churches they refer to! 1) Parish: Shankill St



              Anne's, Belfast; Baptisms:



              1761 – 1900. 2) Parish: St Anne's, shankill;

              Baptisms:



              1634 – 1900.  Nothing else is identified as



              Shankill



              Parish in the list of Church of Ireland records. There is



              also a *separate* listing for St Anne's, Belfast,



              Baptisms



              1741 – 1875.



              FYI, the



              family did move from the Newtownabbey area to Belfast a

              few



              years later.







              Anyway, I cannot figure out



              which church she was baptized at!  Can anyone



              help me understand the records?



              Cindy



















































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            • Cynthia A Hoffner
              Thank you SO much for checking, Elwyn! I really appreciate it! This is very useful information, though, because at least we know where it is NOT! ☺ I will
              Message 7 of 8 , Apr 30, 2014
              • 0 Attachment

                Thank you SO much for checking, Elwyn!  I really appreciate it!

                 

                This is very useful information, though, because at least we know where it is NOT! J  I will definitely follow up, and will let you know what I find.

                 

                Thanks so much again – you are very generous.

                 

                Cindy

                 

                From: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Elwyn Soutter
                Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 10:09 AM
                To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie

                 

                 

                Cynthia,

                No joy, I am afraid.

                The baptisms for St Anne's for the 1850s are on microfilm MIC1/178 reel 25-28. There was no record of Margaret being baptised at that church on 8th September (or in the month of September). I also checked the special baptism register. (That's for baptisms not conducted in the main church, eg if the child is ill, or the parents too posh to queue up with the hoi polloi.) No sign there either. MIC1/178 reel 20.

                There's an index to St Anne's baptisms on MIC1/178 reel 13. They cover 1824 - 1866. The only Holywood baptised in that period was Thomas Holywood on 30th Dec 1857 (parents Jacob H & Eleanor Lenon).

                I also noted that the St Anne's baptisms for that period don't have the date of birth, only the date of baptism. Your information contains a date of birth, so I sense this is not the right set of records at all. I am not sure where the information comes from. I can only suggest you e-mail rootsireland and ask them. If you get a new source, let me know and I'll see if I can find the original.

                Elwyn
                --------------------------------------------

                On Tue, 29/4/14, Cynthia A Hoffner <choffner@...> wrote:

                Subject: RE: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie [1 Attachment]
                To: "Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com" <Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com>
                Date: Tuesday, 29 April, 2014, 20:51


                 









                [Attachment(s) from Cynthia A Hoffner
                included below]






                Wow, Elwyn, that is
                so generous of you!  Thank you.
                 
                I actually did not
                intend to upload any attachments, not sure what those
                were.  I have attached the record from rootsireland.ie to
                this message and I hope it
                comes through.
                 
                The surname was
                spelled Holywood rather than Hollywood, but I have seen that
                many time. Every other detail is correct so I am absolutely
                positive this is her!
                 I have her parents’ 1855 marriage certificate from Port
                Glasgow, Scotland (Newark Parish Church) and visited the
                church last summer – now apartments, but the structure of
                the building and the graveyard are intact! Her mother’s
                name was Orcilla Elizabeth McCutcheon,
                but she often went by Elizabeth. Her father William was a
                blacksmith.
                 
                Here is a
                transcription:
                 
                Church Baptism
                Record
                Name: Margaret
                Holywood
                Date of Birth:
                14-Jul-1858
                Date of Baptism:
                08-Sep-1858
                Address:  Ctta
                Mount
                Parish/District:
                Shankill
                County:  Co.
                Antrim
                Denomination: Church
                Of Ireland
                Father: William
                Holywood
                Mother: Elizabeth
                McCutcheon
                Occupation:
                Blacksmith

                Notes: married in
                Glasgow church [Scotland]; residence unclear - Ctta (?)
                Mount
                 
                Someone else I’ve
                corresponded with before suggested an alternative for Ctta
                Mount: Cotton Court, Belfast. So if you are able to find the
                record I will be interested
                to see if it is decipherable. Margaret’s father’s
                family was living in Cotton Mount in 1856 (it was pretty
                clear on the baptism record for his youngest sister at
                Carnmoney Parish Church, which I found last summer), so I
                just assumed that must be it. I have
                an address for the family as of 1866 on North Thomas
                Street, Belfast.
                 
                Interesting details
                about the cathedral. The spire is a bit unusual – but it
                makes it unique!
                J
                 
                Thanks so much
                again!!!
                 
                Cindy
                 
                p.s., If those
                listings are for the SAME church, just labeled differently
                by different groups with different range of dates available,
                then that makes more
                sense! J
                 


                From:
                Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com]
                On Behalf Of Elwyn Soutter

                Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 4:27 PM

                To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com

                Subject: RE: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about
                parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie


                 
                 



                Cindy,



                Various different groups have gone through St Anne’s
                records over the years and later offered them to LDS. So I
                think that’s why there are several sets of records for the
                same church with differing years and with slightly different
                titles.



                When I open the two attachments you have sent both are blank
                on my PC. Can you send me the name and date of baptism of
                the person you are interested in? I will be in PRONI
                tomorrow and will look it up for you in the St Anne’s
                records.



                Glad you liked the Cathedral. I am not sure about the new
                spire. I don’t think it fits. But that’s another
                discussion! They built the Cathedral around the old St
                Anne’s church, and then when they were finished, they
                knocked the old church down and removed the
                waste through the new door. That way they could carry on
                using St Anne’s church for most of the time they were
                building the cathedral. They did the same thing at
                Killymurris church in Rasharkin, so that must have been a
                common way of building a bigger church
                at that time. I suspect Health & Safety wouldn’t be
                keen on that today.



                Elwyn

                --------------------------------------------

                On Tue, 29/4/14, Cynthia A Hoffner <choffner@...>
                wrote:



                Subject: RE: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish
                baptism records on rootsireland.ie

                To: "Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com"
                <Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com>

                Date: Tuesday, 29 April, 2014, 19:29





                 



























                Thanks, Elwyn!  I

                may need to contact rootsireland.ie for

                clarification.

                 

                But, do you have any

                idea what the difference is between the two sources below

                that are listed on rootsireland.ie (the only two Church
                of

                Ireland sources that

                refer to Shankill).  They must be different, right,
                since

                the baptisms cover different years?



                 

                Shankill St

                Anne's, Belfast. Baptisms: 1761 – 1900

                St Anne's,

                shankill. Baptisms: 1634 – 1900

                 

                And oddly, there is

                also this one (also Church of Ireland): St Anne's,

                Belfast. Baptisms: 1741 - 1875

                 

                http://www.rootsireland.ie/ifhf/generic.php?filename=sources.tpl&selectedMenu=sources



                 

                Last summer I

                visited Belfast from the US, and I went to both St.

                George’s Chapel of Ease (just saw the exterior) and
                also

                St. Anne’s Cathedral! St. Anne’s

                is a magnificent structure!

                 

                Cindy

                 

                 





                From:

                Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com

                [mailto:Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com]

                On Behalf Of Elwyn Soutter



                Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:26 PM



                To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com



                Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about

                parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie





                 

                 







                Cindy,







                St Anne’s was the main parish church in Shankill
                parish.

                (There were other churches in the parish eg St George’s

                Chapel of Ease). Probably the biggest parish and COI
                church

                in Belfast.  It was replaced, on the same site, by St

                Anne’s Cathedral in the early

                1900s. It’s records have been put on several sites and
                my

                instincts are that this is where the baptism took

                place. 







                You could e-mail rootsireland and ask them if they can

                clarify what the records relate to. Or you could get
                someone

                to look up the copies in PRONI to check that way.







                Elwyn



                --------------------------------------------



                On Tue, 29/4/14, choffner@...
                <choffner@...>

                wrote:







                Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish
                baptism

                records on rootsireland.ie



                To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com



                Date: Tuesday, 29 April, 2014, 16:37











                 















































                I recently located the



                elusive baptism record for my



                great-grandmother, Margaret Hollywood, born 1858, on the



                RootsIreland



                site.  All the information is correct and



                it is definitely her.  But, I cannot



                figure out what church she was baptized at.







                This is what the record



                says:  Parish/District:



                Shankill; County: Co. Antrim; Denomination: Church of



                Ireland; Address: Ctta



                Mount [Cotton Mount – which is in Newtownabbey; other



                family members lived there as well]. 







                The list of



                records on rootsireland.ie includes two possibilities,

                and



                they are so similar that I cannot even figure out which



                churches they refer to! 1) Parish: Shankill St



                Anne's, Belfast; Baptisms:



                1761 – 1900. 2) Parish: St Anne's, shankill;

                Baptisms:



                1634 – 1900.  Nothing else is identified as



                Shankill



                Parish in the list of Church of Ireland records. There is



                also a *separate* listing for St Anne's, Belfast,



                Baptisms



                1741 – 1875.



                FYI, the



                family did move from the Newtownabbey area to Belfast a

                few



                years later.







                Anyway, I cannot figure out



                which church she was baptized at!  Can anyone



                help me understand the records?



                Cindy



















































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              • Cynthia A Hoffner
                Just following up to thank you again, Elwyn and update you in case you did not see my other comment. And thanks for alerting me to the fact that the
                Message 8 of 8 , May 13, 2014
                • 0 Attachment

                  Just following up to thank you again, Elwyn and update you in case you did not see my other comment.  And thanks for alerting me to the fact that the information provided on a baptism record is also a clue to the church.

                   

                  From the description of newly-transcribed baptism records (which explains why I had not found it earlier), I now think my great-grandmother, Margaret Hollywood [Holywood], was baptized in 1858 at ChristChurch, Belfast, Church of Ireland. Her record includes all the information that the description says were recorded by the minister of Christchurch from 1855 to 1859, including address, father’s occupation, mother’s maiden name, and where the parents were married (which was very rarely recorded)!  I will follow up on this! J

                   

                  I found this information on the restoration of the church as “the library and IT centre for the Royal Belfast Academical Institution.”

                  http://www.belfastbuildingstrust.org/christchurch.php

                   

                  Cindy

                   

                  From: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Elwyn Soutter
                  Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 10:09 AM
                  To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie

                   

                   

                  Cynthia,

                  No joy, I am afraid.

                  The baptisms for St Anne's for the 1850s are on microfilm MIC1/178 reel 25-28. There was no record of Margaret being baptised at that church on 8th September (or in the month of September). I also checked the special baptism register. (That's for baptisms not conducted in the main church, eg if the child is ill, or the parents too posh to queue up with the hoi polloi.) No sign there either. MIC1/178 reel 20.

                  There's an index to St Anne's baptisms on MIC1/178 reel 13. They cover 1824 - 1866. The only Holywood baptised in that period was Thomas Holywood on 30th Dec 1857 (parents Jacob H & Eleanor Lenon).

                  I also noted that the St Anne's baptisms for that period don't have the date of birth, only the date of baptism. Your information contains a date of birth, so I sense this is not the right set of records at all. I am not sure where the information comes from. I can only suggest you e-mail rootsireland and ask them. If you get a new source, let me know and I'll see if I can find the original.

                  Elwyn
                  --------------------------------------------

                  On Tue, 29/4/14, Cynthia A Hoffner <choffner@...> wrote:

                  Subject: RE: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie [1 Attachment]
                  To: "Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com" <Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com>
                  Date: Tuesday, 29 April, 2014, 20:51


                   









                  [Attachment(s) from Cynthia A Hoffner
                  included below]






                  Wow, Elwyn, that is
                  so generous of you!  Thank you.
                   
                  I actually did not
                  intend to upload any attachments, not sure what those
                  were.  I have attached the record from rootsireland.ie to
                  this message and I hope it
                  comes through.
                   
                  The surname was
                  spelled Holywood rather than Hollywood, but I have seen that
                  many time. Every other detail is correct so I am absolutely
                  positive this is her!
                   I have her parents’ 1855 marriage certificate from Port
                  Glasgow, Scotland (Newark Parish Church) and visited the
                  church last summer – now apartments, but the structure of
                  the building and the graveyard are intact! Her mother’s
                  name was Orcilla Elizabeth McCutcheon,
                  but she often went by Elizabeth. Her father William was a
                  blacksmith.
                   
                  Here is a
                  transcription:
                   
                  Church Baptism
                  Record
                  Name: Margaret
                  Holywood
                  Date of Birth:
                  14-Jul-1858
                  Date of Baptism:
                  08-Sep-1858
                  Address:  Ctta
                  Mount
                  Parish/District:
                  Shankill
                  County:  Co.
                  Antrim
                  Denomination: Church
                  Of Ireland
                  Father: William
                  Holywood
                  Mother: Elizabeth
                  McCutcheon
                  Occupation:
                  Blacksmith

                  Notes: married in
                  Glasgow church [Scotland]; residence unclear - Ctta (?)
                  Mount
                   
                  Someone else I’ve
                  corresponded with before suggested an alternative for Ctta
                  Mount: Cotton Court, Belfast. So if you are able to find the
                  record I will be interested
                  to see if it is decipherable. Margaret’s father’s
                  family was living in Cotton Mount in 1856 (it was pretty
                  clear on the baptism record for his youngest sister at
                  Carnmoney Parish Church, which I found last summer), so I
                  just assumed that must be it. I have
                  an address for the family as of 1866 on North Thomas
                  Street, Belfast.
                   
                  Interesting details
                  about the cathedral. The spire is a bit unusual – but it
                  makes it unique!
                  J
                   
                  Thanks so much
                  again!!!
                   
                  Cindy
                   
                  p.s., If those
                  listings are for the SAME church, just labeled differently
                  by different groups with different range of dates available,
                  then that makes more
                  sense! J
                   


                  From:
                  Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com]
                  On Behalf Of Elwyn Soutter

                  Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 4:27 PM

                  To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com

                  Subject: RE: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about
                  parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie


                   
                   



                  Cindy,



                  Various different groups have gone through St Anne’s
                  records over the years and later offered them to LDS. So I
                  think that’s why there are several sets of records for the
                  same church with differing years and with slightly different
                  titles.



                  When I open the two attachments you have sent both are blank
                  on my PC. Can you send me the name and date of baptism of
                  the person you are interested in? I will be in PRONI
                  tomorrow and will look it up for you in the St Anne’s
                  records.



                  Glad you liked the Cathedral. I am not sure about the new
                  spire. I don’t think it fits. But that’s another
                  discussion! They built the Cathedral around the old St
                  Anne’s church, and then when they were finished, they
                  knocked the old church down and removed the
                  waste through the new door. That way they could carry on
                  using St Anne’s church for most of the time they were
                  building the cathedral. They did the same thing at
                  Killymurris church in Rasharkin, so that must have been a
                  common way of building a bigger church
                  at that time. I suspect Health & Safety wouldn’t be
                  keen on that today.



                  Elwyn

                  --------------------------------------------

                  On Tue, 29/4/14, Cynthia A Hoffner <choffner@...>
                  wrote:



                  Subject: RE: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish
                  baptism records on rootsireland.ie

                  To: "Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com"
                  <Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com>

                  Date: Tuesday, 29 April, 2014, 19:29





                   



























                  Thanks, Elwyn!  I

                  may need to contact rootsireland.ie for

                  clarification.

                   

                  But, do you have any

                  idea what the difference is between the two sources below

                  that are listed on rootsireland.ie (the only two Church
                  of

                  Ireland sources that

                  refer to Shankill).  They must be different, right,
                  since

                  the baptisms cover different years?



                   

                  Shankill St

                  Anne's, Belfast. Baptisms: 1761 – 1900

                  St Anne's,

                  shankill. Baptisms: 1634 – 1900

                   

                  And oddly, there is

                  also this one (also Church of Ireland): St Anne's,

                  Belfast. Baptisms: 1741 - 1875

                   

                  http://www.rootsireland.ie/ifhf/generic.php?filename=sources.tpl&selectedMenu=sources



                   

                  Last summer I

                  visited Belfast from the US, and I went to both St.

                  George’s Chapel of Ease (just saw the exterior) and
                  also

                  St. Anne’s Cathedral! St. Anne’s

                  is a magnificent structure!

                   

                  Cindy

                   

                   





                  From:

                  Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com

                  [mailto:Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com]

                  On Behalf Of Elwyn Soutter



                  Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:26 PM



                  To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com



                  Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about

                  parish baptism records on rootsireland.ie





                   

                   







                  Cindy,







                  St Anne’s was the main parish church in Shankill
                  parish.

                  (There were other churches in the parish eg St George’s

                  Chapel of Ease). Probably the biggest parish and COI
                  church

                  in Belfast.  It was replaced, on the same site, by St

                  Anne’s Cathedral in the early

                  1900s. It’s records have been put on several sites and
                  my

                  instincts are that this is where the baptism took

                  place. 







                  You could e-mail rootsireland and ask them if they can

                  clarify what the records relate to. Or you could get
                  someone

                  to look up the copies in PRONI to check that way.







                  Elwyn



                  --------------------------------------------



                  On Tue, 29/4/14, choffner@...
                  <choffner@...>

                  wrote:







                  Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Question about parish
                  baptism

                  records on rootsireland.ie



                  To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com



                  Date: Tuesday, 29 April, 2014, 16:37











                   















































                  I recently located the



                  elusive baptism record for my



                  great-grandmother, Margaret Hollywood, born 1858, on the



                  RootsIreland



                  site.  All the information is correct and



                  it is definitely her.  But, I cannot



                  figure out what church she was baptized at.







                  This is what the record



                  says:  Parish/District:



                  Shankill; County: Co. Antrim; Denomination: Church of



                  Ireland; Address: Ctta



                  Mount [Cotton Mount – which is in Newtownabbey; other



                  family members lived there as well]. 







                  The list of



                  records on rootsireland.ie includes two possibilities,

                  and



                  they are so similar that I cannot even figure out which



                  churches they refer to! 1) Parish: Shankill St



                  Anne's, Belfast; Baptisms:



                  1761 – 1900. 2) Parish: St Anne's, shankill;

                  Baptisms:



                  1634 – 1900.  Nothing else is identified as



                  Shankill



                  Parish in the list of Church of Ireland records. There is



                  also a *separate* listing for St Anne's, Belfast,



                  Baptisms



                  1741 – 1875.



                  FYI, the



                  family did move from the Newtownabbey area to Belfast a

                  few



                  years later.







                  Anyway, I cannot figure out



                  which church she was baptized at!  Can anyone



                  help me understand the records?



                  Cindy



















































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