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Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy]

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  • rebeccamccarl51
    Bob, Actually Jim Rogers, Sr. is my husband. I m Rebecca McCarl Rogers. Thank you for your help in my understanding of Irish history. It s relative to my
    Message 1 of 2 , Jul 10, 2013
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      Bob, Actually Jim Rogers, Sr. is my husband. I'm Rebecca McCarl Rogers. Thank you for your help in my understanding of Irish history. It's relative to my family and their history. It is quite a bit to digest. I should have included Kinsale.

      Rebecca McCarl Rogers

      --- In Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "Bob The Builder" <bcrnhn@...> wrote:
      >
      > Jim, You have quite a bit of history to digest but I believe you might have left out the most important part of what happened before the flight of the Earls. What about Kinsale which in my opinion was the most important wartime loss in Irish history that influenced the hold onto their country for many generations.Bob Carnahan
      >
      > ---------- Original Message ----------
      > From: "Jim Rogers Sr" <jameserogers@...>
      > To: <Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com>, "James Rogers, Sr." <jameserogers@...>, <elwynsoutter@...>
      > Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy]
      > Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 17:41:13 -0400
      >
      >
      >
      > This is some O'Neill history, please correct me if I'm wrong on anything. The History of The Neals and O'Neals
      >
      > Niall the Great Monarch of Ireland in the fourth century was known as Niall of the Nine Hostages.
      >
      > Niall's son, Connel seized Inisowen and Laggan. His descendants are called O'Donnell.
      >
      > Connel's brother, Eoghan took possession of Tyrone. His descendants are called O'Neill.
      >
      > In 1607, the rule of these families came to an end when the Earls of Tyrone and Tyrconnel- the chiefs of the O'Neills and O'Donnells sailed away and abandoned their territories. This was called "The Flight of the Earls".
      >
      > The ambitious Gaelic Irish Chieftain Hugh O'Neill was upset with the English State advancing into Ireland in 1594. He and other Gaelic Irish families including the O' Donnells caused resistance and the Nine Years War (1594- 1603). Elizabeth I of England sent Sir Henry Docwra to Ireland in May of 1600. Their desire was to land on an island "the Derrie" in the River Foyle in Ulster. The object of their mission was to start a garrison for their queen. After 5 years of fighting the tenacious Irish, the queen wanted an end to it.
      >
      > The location was a natural fortress with the river and steep cliffs up to it. They built upper and lower forts and began raids on the Irish resisters. Fighting was quite brutal between the two sides. Elizabeth I died March 24 1603. The Earl of Tyrone had surrendered, and King James I was determined to keep Ireland from posing any more threats to his Kingdom. Attempts were made to enforce English law in Ireland, but problems arose. In 1607 the Flight of the Earls occurred, Hugh O'Neill and Rory O'Donnell left Ulster.
      >
      >
      >
      > Neals in England
      >
      > At the time of the Great Viking raids, some of the descendants of Niall had come to Iceland and Norway, they may have come as captives. Rollo made himself independent from the King of Norway Harald I. He later sailed to raid Scotland, England, Flanders, and France. In the early part of the 10th century Rollo's Danish army invaded France. He then established a place along the Seine River.
      >
      > The Norman Dukes were Rollo's successors. They had accepted Christianity and extended authority over lords of the region. The Carolingian King Lothair did not accept the Norman Rule. Duke Richard I (942-996) allied with Hugh Capet.
      >
      > Duke Richard II (996-1026) continued the alliance with the Capets. Duke "Robert the Devil" expanded the territory of Normandy.
      >
      > William I "The Conqueror" of England was born October 14, 1024 in Falaise, Normandy, France to Robert I Duke of Normandy, also called "Robert the Devil" or "Robert the Magnificent" and his concubine Hereva, or Arlette. She was the daughter of a burgher in Falaise. They had two children, William was the eldest.
      >
      > William I "The Conqueror" of England came with others from France to England. William was victorious at Hastings then marched to London. On Christmas Day 1066, he was crowned king at Westminster Abbey. He built castles and the Tower of London.
      >
      > Willemus filius Nigelli was in the 1086 Domesday Book taken for William the Conqueror to know what his subjects owned. One of the later Neals in England was Nigellus de Abbekettleby, Leicestershire.
      >
      > My line:
      > 1.Simon Neale b. abt. 1570, clothworker in London m.September 22, 1591 in London
      > (Simon Neales family is said to descend from Nigellus de Abbekettleby, Leicestershire)
      > (Son Symon Neale b. London, went to Merchant Taylors' School)
      >
      > Rebecca McCarl Rogers
      > From: Elwyn SoutterSent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 9:27 AMTo: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@...: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Bob, Interesting. I am not surprised at your grand-daughter's encounter with Lord O'Neill. The family are all very approachable, down to earth and generally well liked in the community. The estate is run as a commercial venture by Lord O'Neill. One of his sons (Shane) is the estate manager, and the family are on site a lot of the time. Lord O'Neill loves old trains and steam powered machinery, and so pops up anytime an old steam locomotive or traction engine is on the move. He hosts a fair every summer at the castle to which people are encouraged to bring their old tractors and steam powered traction engines. Always a good day out. As I say I have never heard that story about the massacre. Though Ireland hasn't always been terribly law abiding, by the 1820s, in general, if you murdered a load of people in the way you have suggested, there tended to be repercussions. I'd be slightly sceptical about this story to be honest. If you get a good massacre in Irish history, we tend to highlight it, there's usually a lot of historical information and memorials to be found, and the family responsible would be despised for the next 500 years. The Irish don't like to forget their history, as they always say. We love discussing it. Perhaps too much. If this had happened, there would be memorials to the dead in graveyards, an annual remembrance service etc. I don't think you could cover a thing like that up, nor get people to overlook it or keep silent. I am a member of the local apiary club and we keep bees in the Castle grounds, so I have standing permission to go there. As your grand-daughter found, the estate discourages casual visitors (because of litter, gates left open, litigation from accidents etc) but does give permission if you have insurance or a proper reason. They are also trying to discourage people from coming to watch the filming for Game of Thrones, for obvious reasons. The film company has its own security staff there but the estate itself doesn't have any security staff, except when public events are on such as the Game Fair or a pop concert. I know several people who live on the estate so I will ask about your story next time I am down there, but I'd be inclined to take it with a pinch of salt. I think the reason you don't hear much about the alleged event is because it didn't happen. But perhaps I am mistaken. I have also just remembered that 2nd castle was also burned down. The IRA burned it in the 1920s, and so the family had to build again in the 1960s. But I assume the historical event you are alluding to must be around the time of the 1822 burning. Elwyn From: Bob The Builder <bcrnhn@...>
      > To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, 9 July 2013, 12:53
      > Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy]
      > Thanks Elwyn. My granddaughter just completed a trip to Ireland and Shane's Castle. Upon arriving there she was turned away and told by several different security that this was private property and no one could enter except the HBO crews. Finally she found an office and the man there told her the same story. But finally he relented and told her she could enter but only to certain places. When asked his name he told her that his name was O'Neill and that he owned the property. The film crew security also told her she could not enter but after telling them that she had Mr. O'Neill's permission they assigned her a security escort who showed her around the Castle. During the meantime she was told by many people about the fire and the suspicions that it was probably set by the O'Neill's themselves for financial reasons. Also she was told by several locals that soon after the fire the O'Neill's gathered all their employees together and killed them. According to her story to me was that most of the locals were aware of this situation but seldom could you ever get them to talk about it. I tend to believe that there is something to the above story because my research has told me that several Carnahan families had lived in the area but there does not seem to be any around in more recent times.Bob Carnahan
      >
      > ---------- Original Message ----------
      > From: Elwyn Soutter <elwynsoutter@...>
      > To: "Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com" <Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com>
      > Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy]
      > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 07:41:57 +0100 (BST)
      >
      > The castle is generally called Shane's Castle (and the O'Neill family still live in the newer castle). The original burned down in 1812 in the middle of renovations being carried out by Nash the famous English architect. Attributed by some to the mischief of the banshee, it was reckoned to have actually started when a bird's nest caught fire in a rarely used chimney. The castle burned down, so the family built a new beside it. As you do. Here's a link to the estate's website which mentions the fire: http://shanescastle.com/content/history I have never heard of any story about employees being killed around that time. I live about 2 miles from Shane's Castle and am reasonably familiar with the local history. Some people from Randalstown, who would have been O'Neill's tenants, were killed in the Battle of Antrim (in the 1798 United Irishmen uprising), as was Lord O'Neill himself. That's the only significant loss of life around that time that I am aware of. Part of the original castle still stands by the lough shore. It's very scenic and is often used for weddings and other functions. The sci fi TV series Game of Thrones regularly uses the castle and the grounds for filming. From: Bob The Builder <bcrnhn@...>
      > To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Tuesday, 9 July 2013, 4:06
      > Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy]
      > Hello from Mt. Juliet, TN, USA Can anyone shed any more light on the burning of Shayne's Castle many years ago and about the killing of all the employees by the O'neills soon after it was burned. Seems like no one wants to talk about it for some reason.Bob Carnahan. "IN GOD WE TRUST""In Any War Between the Civilized Man and the Savage, Support the Civilized Man. Support Israel. Defeat Jihad."
      >
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