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Belfast Mental Hospital

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  • fionalowry@rocketmail.com
    Hello from freezing Melbourne A few months back you helped me with a query on my GG uncle William Lowry and uncovered my GGG grandparents burial records from
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 25, 2013
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      Hello from freezing Melbourne

      A few months back you helped me with a query on my GG uncle William Lowry and uncovered my GGG grandparents burial records from the Belfast Cemetary. When I downloaded the information, I found they were buried with two other people, one in particular I found rather interesting.

      Joseph Kennedy, previously of 22 Kensington St Belfast who died on 13 May 1925 of 'brain troubles' in the Belfast Mental Hospital.

      It seems I can put a request in writing to the hospital to get some information on this patient, so I will endeavour to do so. My questions for the forum are of a more general nature (although any information about this person would be thankfully received).

      Was it common for people to be buried with people not in their immediate family?
      Does anyone know where I can learn more about the hospital at that time?


      Kind regards
      Fiona
    • C J
      Hi Fiona, In my experience, it was only relatives who were buried in the same grave.  You might have a look at the lair records for the cemetery.  This will
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 25, 2013
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        Hi Fiona,

        In my experience, it was only relatives who were buried in the same grave.  You might have a look at the lair records for the cemetery.  This will list the owner of the grave & who is buried in it.

        Cheers,
        Camille in Maryland

        Searching in Co. Down: GRANT, MCCONNEL/MCCONNELL, PARKS/PARKE/PARK, PAYNE/PAINE

        Suspected Surnames in Co. Down: AGNEW, BEATTIE, BOAL, BRICKMAN, COLLINS, CUNNINGHAM, DUGGAN, GOODWIN, HANNA, HARRIS, IRELAND, MCCARTHY, MCGIBBEN, MCGIRL, MCMULLAN, MEANEY, NELSON, PARSONS, PRESTON, TULLEY, WALKER, WATERWORTH, others

        Suspected Surnames in Co. Armagh (Lurgan): HENDERSON, MAGILL, PAYNE

        Suspected Surnames in Belfast: LENNON, LOWRY, PAYNE

        Unknown locations in Ireland: CHILCOTT, DEVLIN, FARRELL, GUIN/GWYN/GWYNNE/QUINN, HERON, LEADEN/LEDEN/LYDEN, LINDSAY, MULHEARN, O'NEILL, SCOTT, STEENSEN, WARD



        From: "fionalowry@..." <fionalowry@...>
        To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 8:30 AM
        Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Belfast Mental Hospital

         
        Hello from freezing Melbourne

        A few months back you helped me with a query on my GG uncle William Lowry and uncovered my GGG grandparents burial records from the Belfast Cemetary. When I downloaded the information, I found they were buried with two other people, one in particular I found rather interesting.

        Joseph Kennedy, previously of 22 Kensington St Belfast who died on 13 May 1925 of 'brain troubles' in the Belfast Mental Hospital.

        It seems I can put a request in writing to the hospital to get some information on this patient, so I will endeavour to do so. My questions for the forum are of a more general nature (although any information about this person would be thankfully received).

        Was it common for people to be buried with people not in their immediate family?
        Does anyone know where I can learn more about the hospital at that time?

        Kind regards
        Fiona



      • Elwyn Soutter
        I expect that the records for patients from the 1920s are in PRONI now, rather than still with the hospital. I think that the mental hospital in the 1920s was
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 26, 2013
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          I expect that the records for patients from the 1920s are in PRONI now, rather than still with the hospital. I think that the mental hospital in the 1920s was probably Belvoir Park Hospital and that's closed now. The current one is nearby at Knockbracken.



          From: C J <saturncat@...>
          To: "Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com" <Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com>; Camille JULIANA <SaturnCat@...>
          Sent: Tuesday, 25 June 2013, 18:12
          Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Belfast Mental Hospital / Cemetery lair records

           
          Hi Fiona,

          In my experience, it was only relatives who were buried in the same grave.  You might have a look at the lair records for the cemetery.  This will list the owner of the grave & who is buried in it.

          Cheers,
          Camille in Maryland

          Searching in Co. Down: GRANT, MCCONNEL/MCCONNELL, PARKS/PARKE/PARK, PAYNE/PAINE

          Suspected Surnames in Co. Down: AGNEW, BEATTIE, BOAL, BRICKMAN, COLLINS, CUNNINGHAM, DUGGAN, GOODWIN, HANNA, HARRIS, IRELAND, MCCARTHY, MCGIBBEN, MCGIRL, MCMULLAN, MEANEY, NELSON, PARSONS, PRESTON, TULLEY, WALKER, WATERWORTH, others

          Suspected Surnames in Co. Armagh (Lurgan): HENDERSON, MAGILL, PAYNE

          Suspected Surnames in Belfast: LENNON, LOWRY, PAYNE

          Unknown locations in Ireland: CHILCOTT, DEVLIN, FARRELL, GUIN/GWYN/GWYNNE/QUINN, HERON, LEADEN/LEDEN/LYDEN, LINDSAY, MULHEARN, O'NEILL, SCOTT, STEENSEN, WARD



          From: "fionalowry@..." <fionalowry@...>
          To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 8:30 AM
          Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Belfast Mental Hospital

           
          Hello from freezing Melbourne

          A few months back you helped me with a query on my GG uncle William Lowry and uncovered my GGG grandparents burial records from the Belfast Cemetary. When I downloaded the information, I found they were buried with two other people, one in particular I found rather interesting.

          Joseph Kennedy, previously of 22 Kensington St Belfast who died on 13 May 1925 of 'brain troubles' in the Belfast Mental Hospital.

          It seems I can put a request in writing to the hospital to get some information on this patient, so I will endeavour to do so. My questions for the forum are of a more general nature (although any information about this person would be thankfully received).

          Was it common for people to be buried with people not in their immediate family?
          Does anyone know where I can learn more about the hospital at that time?

          Kind regards
          Fiona





        • fairsjau
          I can t speak for Ireland but in England you could purchase a private grave which then only family members were buried in. This was a lot more expensive than
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 26, 2013
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            I can't speak for Ireland but in England you could purchase a "private" grave which then only family members were buried in. This was a lot more expensive than the normal grave which could then be sold on to someone else for burial. My Irish family who moved to Bradford Yorkshire did this. They purchased a grave and 3 or 4 members of the family were buried in it, then it was resold and another couple of other people were buried in it.

            Jennie Fairs

            --- In Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "fionalowry@..." <fionalowry@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello from freezing Melbourne
            >
            > A few months back you helped me with a query on my GG uncle William Lowry and uncovered my GGG grandparents burial records from the Belfast Cemetary. When I downloaded the information, I found they were buried with two other people, one in particular I found rather interesting.
            >
            > Joseph Kennedy, previously of 22 Kensington St Belfast who died on 13 May 1925 of 'brain troubles' in the Belfast Mental Hospital.
            >
            > It seems I can put a request in writing to the hospital to get some information on this patient, so I will endeavour to do so. My questions for the forum are of a more general nature (although any information about this person would be thankfully received).
            >
            > Was it common for people to be buried with people not in their immediate family?
            > Does anyone know where I can learn more about the hospital at that time?
            >
            >
            > Kind regards
            > Fiona
            >
          • Gordon Crooks
            Jennie: Question what happened to the original burials in the grave after it was sold to another fasmily ? While I am not sure, it would seem to me that there
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 27, 2013
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              Jennie: Question what happened to the original burials in the grave after it was sold to another fasmily ? While I am not sure, it would seem to me that there would be a limit to how many could be buried in the same grave.
               
                                          Gordon
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: fairsjau
              Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 6:53 PM
              Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Re: Belfast Mental Hospital

               

              I can't speak for Ireland but in England you could purchase a "private" grave which then only family members were buried in. This was a lot more expensive than the normal grave which could then be sold on to someone else for burial. My Irish family who moved to Bradford Yorkshire did this. They purchased a grave and 3 or 4 members of the family were buried in it, then it was resold and another couple of other people were buried in it.

              Jennie Fairs

              --- In Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "fionalowry@..." <fionalowry@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello from freezing Melbourne
              >
              > A few months back you helped me with a query on my GG uncle William Lowry and uncovered my GGG grandparents burial records from the Belfast Cemetary. When I downloaded the information, I found they were buried with two other people, one in particular I found rather interesting.
              >
              > Joseph Kennedy, previously of 22 Kensington St Belfast who died on 13 May 1925 of 'brain troubles' in the Belfast Mental Hospital.
              >
              > It seems I can put a request in writing to the hospital to get some information on this patient, so I will endeavour to do so. My questions for the forum are of a more general nature (although any information about this person would be thankfully received).
              >
              > Was it common for people to be buried with people not in their immediate family?
              > Does anyone know where I can learn more about the hospital at that time?
              >
              >
              > Kind regards
              > Fiona
              >

            • Linda Holley
              Speaking of graves - were there cremations in N.I. early on? If so, this might explain how so many people could have been placed in one grave. Or - were they
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 27, 2013
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                Speaking of graves - were there cremations in N.I. early on? If so, this might explain how so many people could have been placed in one grave. Or - were they buried on top of one another?

                Linda

                --- In Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon Crooks" <gordoncrooks@...> wrote:
                >
                > Jennie: Question what happened to the original burials in the grave after it was sold to another fasmily ? While I am not sure, it would seem to me that there would be a limit to how many could be buried in the same grave.
                >
                > Gordon
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: fairsjau
                > To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 6:53 PM
                > Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Re: Belfast Mental Hospital
                >
                >
                >
                > I can't speak for Ireland but in England you could purchase a "private" grave which then only family members were buried in. This was a lot more expensive than the normal grave which could then be sold on to someone else for burial. My Irish family who moved to Bradford Yorkshire did this. They purchased a grave and 3 or 4 members of the family were buried in it, then it was resold and another couple of other people were buried in it.
                >
                > Jennie Fairs
                >
                > --- In Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "fionalowry@" <fionalowry@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello from freezing Melbourne
                > >
                > > A few months back you helped me with a query on my GG uncle William Lowry and uncovered my GGG grandparents burial records from the Belfast Cemetary. When I downloaded the information, I found they were buried with two other people, one in particular I found rather interesting.
                > >
                > > Joseph Kennedy, previously of 22 Kensington St Belfast who died on 13 May 1925 of 'brain troubles' in the Belfast Mental Hospital.
                > >
                > > It seems I can put a request in writing to the hospital to get some information on this patient, so I will endeavour to do so. My questions for the forum are of a more general nature (although any information about this person would be thankfully received).
                > >
                > > Was it common for people to be buried with people not in their immediate family?
                > > Does anyone know where I can learn more about the hospital at that time?
                > >
                > >
                > > Kind regards
                > > Fiona
                > >
                >
              • Robert J.E. Simpson
                Fiona, I think burials occasionally might have happened between different families (I m sure I spotted at least one in my own tree), but its more likely that
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 27, 2013
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                  Fiona,

                  I think burials occasionally might have happened between different families (I'm sure I spotted at least one in my own tree), but its more likely that there is a family connection which you aren't aware of - probably through siblings.

                  You can purchase copy of the burial records for each of the 4 bodies in that grave, which will confirm (usually) cause of death, and also who was responsible for grave/funeral. This may help indicate a family connection. Records are £1.50 each.

                  The fact that the Lowry burials bookend the other burials in the plot would again suggest that there must be a family connection.

                  Robert Lowry - d 7 Feb 1918 (age 43)
                  Jane Nixon - d 23 Sep 1923 (age 43)
                  Joseph Kennedy - d 13 May 1925 (age 38)
                  Eliza Lowry - d 3 Aug 1928 (age 64)

                  Jane Nixon was at 46 Cobermore St in 1911 where she is listed as Ann Jane (age is 29 on original, not 22 as given in transcription) http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/St__George_s/Combermere_Street/162356/

                  I note she is step-daughter of Edward Watson (married to Ann), and they married around 1902. Both Ann and her daughter (Ann) Jane were born in Tyrone.


                  I note from the 1911 census that Eliza Lowry was also born in Tyrone, which makes me wonder if perhaps Eliza and Jane were sisters?
                  http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/St__George_s/Hurst_Street/155443/ 

                  Eliza and Robert married c. 1892.

                  There's not a clear indication from those records what the maiden name was, and I'm not 100% certain from the records I have access to either. I found a couple of Rea marriages which *might* fit.

                  I'm willing to bet Joseph is part of the same Tyrone family - either a sibling, or the child of a sibling of Eliza and Jane.

                  Robert








                  On 25 June 2013 13:30, fionalowry@... <fionalowry@...> wrote:
                   

                  Hello from freezing Melbourne

                  A few months back you helped me with a query on my GG uncle William Lowry and uncovered my GGG grandparents burial records from the Belfast Cemetary. When I downloaded the information, I found they were buried with two other people, one in particular I found rather interesting.

                  Joseph Kennedy, previously of 22 Kensington St Belfast who died on 13 May 1925 of 'brain troubles' in the Belfast Mental Hospital.

                  It seems I can put a request in writing to the hospital to get some information on this patient, so I will endeavour to do so. My questions for the forum are of a more general nature (although any information about this person would be thankfully received).

                  Was it common for people to be buried with people not in their immediate family?
                  Does anyone know where I can learn more about the hospital at that time?

                  Kind regards
                  Fiona


                • Elwyn Soutter
                  As far as I am aware, cremation has only been a practical option in Northern Ireland since about 1960. Prior to that there was no crematorium, and I think
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 27, 2013
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                    As far as I am aware, cremation has only been a practical option in Northern Ireland since about 1960. Prior to that there was no crematorium, and I think there is still only 1 here (at Roselawn). So I think all the graves elsewhere must have been for the burial of conventional bodies. (When my father died we just sprinkled the ashes. We didn’t need a grave at all).
                     
                    In my wife’s family, some of the graves in her family plot have been in use for 100 years or more. They started off 15 foot down and were double-spaced. You can get quite a few coffins into a grave that size.

                    Elwyn


                    From: Linda Holley <ljholley@...>
                    To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013, 14:01
                    Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Re: Burials

                     
                    Speaking of graves - were there cremations in N.I. early on? If so, this might explain how so many people could have been placed in one grave. Or - were they buried on top of one another?

                    Linda

                    --- In Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon Crooks" <gordoncrooks@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Jennie: Question what happened to the original burials in the grave after it was sold to another fasmily ? While I am not sure, it would seem to me that there would be a limit to how many could be buried in the same grave.
                    >
                    > Gordon
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: fairsjau
                    > To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 6:53 PM
                    > Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Re: Belfast Mental Hospital
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I can't speak for Ireland but in England you could purchase a "private" grave which then only family members were buried in. This was a lot more expensive than the normal grave which could then be sold on to someone else for burial. My Irish family who moved to Bradford Yorkshire did this. They purchased a grave and 3 or 4 members of the family were buried in it, then it was resold and another couple of other people were buried in it.
                    >
                    > Jennie Fairs
                    >
                    > --- In Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "fionalowry@" <fionalowry@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello from freezing Melbourne
                    > >
                    > > A few months back you helped me with a query on my GG uncle William Lowry and uncovered my GGG grandparents burial records from the Belfast Cemetary. When I downloaded the information, I found they were buried with two other people, one in particular I found rather interesting.
                    > >
                    > > Joseph Kennedy, previously of 22 Kensington St Belfast who died on 13 May 1925 of 'brain troubles' in the Belfast Mental Hospital.
                    > >
                    > > It seems I can put a request in writing to the hospital to get some information on this patient, so I will endeavour to do so. My questions for the forum are of a more general nature (although any information about this person would be thankfully received).
                    > >
                    > > Was it common for people to be buried with people not in their immediate family?
                    > > Does anyone know where I can learn more about the hospital at that time?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Kind regards
                    > > Fiona
                    > >
                    >



                  • Linda Holley
                    Interesting! Thanks, Elwyn. ... Interesting! Thanks, Elwyn. On Jun 27, 2013, at 2:04 PM, Elwyn Soutter wrote: As far as I am aware, cremation has only been a
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 27, 2013
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                      Interesting!  Thanks, Elwyn.


                      On Jun 27, 2013, at 2:04 PM, Elwyn Soutter wrote:

                       

                      As far as I am aware, cremation has only been a practical option in Northern Ireland since about 1960. Prior to that there was no crematorium, and I think there is still only 1 here (at Roselawn). So I think all the graves elsewhere must have been for the burial of conventional bodies. (When my father died we just sprinkled the ashes. We didn’t need a grave at all).
                       
                      In my wife’s family, some of the graves in her family plot have been in use for 100 years or more. They started off 15 foot down and were double-spaced. You can get quite a few coffins into a grave that size.

                      Elwyn


                      From: Linda Holley <ljholley@...>
                      To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013, 14:01
                      Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Re: Burials

                       
                      Speaking of graves - were there cremations in N.I. early on? If so, this might explain how so many people could have been placed in one grave. Or - were they buried on top of one another?

                      Linda

                      --- In Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon Crooks" <gordoncrooks@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Jennie: Question what happened to the original burials in the grave after it was sold to another fasmily ? While I am not sure, it would seem to me that there would be a limit to how many could be buried in the same grave.
                      >
                      > Gordon
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: fairsjau
                      > To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 6:53 PM
                      > Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Re: Belfast Mental Hospital
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I can't speak for Ireland but in England you could purchase a "private" grave which then only family members were buried in. This was a lot more expensive than the normal grave which could then be sold on to someone else for burial. My Irish family who moved to Bradford Yorkshire did this. They purchased a grave and 3 or 4 members of the family were buried in it, then it was resold and another couple of other people were buried in it.
                      >
                      > Jennie Fairs
                      >
                      > --- In Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "fionalowry@" <fionalowry@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello from freezing Melbourne
                      > >
                      > > A few months back you helped me with a query on my GG uncle William Lowry and uncovered my GGG grandparents burial records from the Belfast Cemetary. When I downloaded the information, I found they were buried with two other people, one in particular I found rather interesting.
                      > >
                      > > Joseph Kennedy, previously of 22 Kensington St Belfast who died on 13 May 1925 of 'brain troubles' in the Belfast Mental Hospital.
                      > >
                      > > It seems I can put a request in writing to the hospital to get some information on this patient, so I will endeavour to do so. My questions for the forum are of a more general nature (although any information about this person would be thankfully received).
                      > >
                      > > Was it common for people to be buried with people not in their immediate family?
                      > > Does anyone know where I can learn more about the hospital at that time?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Kind regards
                      > > Fiona
                      > >
                      >





                    • Robert J.E. Simpson
                      Fiona, Further to email earlier today, did a little more looking at the Belfast City Cemetery records, which may shed further light on this. We already know
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 27, 2013
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                        Fiona,

                        Further to email earlier today, did a little more looking at the Belfast City Cemetery records, which may shed further light on this.

                        We already know Ann Nixon was living as a widow in Boyne Square in Belfast in 1901, and her youngest child is listed as 5 years old.

                        So, searching through the Nixons systematically by year I found her late husband was Andrew Nixon, died 6 January 1896, aged 56, last residence 48 Boyne Square. Plot is at Belfast City Cemetery, plot L2 458.

                        Further evidence of the family ties between Watson, Lowry and Nixon is in this grave. The other inhabitants are (in order of burial):

                        James Lowry, died at Union Hospital, last residence 51 Teutonic Street, d. 16 June 1898, aged 3
                        Margaret Nixon of 25 Boyne Square, died 15 January 1902, aged 42
                        Annie Morgan of 162 Sandy Row, died 30 March 1914, aged 1
                        Ann Watson of 49 Combermere St [possibly a typo], died 7 August 1956 aged 96. 

                        Again, you can purchase the individual burial records through the website.

                        Hope this is of help.

                        Robert

                      • Fiona Lowry
                        Thanks again for the information, this is a terrfic forum, so much knowlege shared. I had come to a similar conclusion about the Watson/Nixon/Lowry connection.
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jun 27, 2013
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                          Thanks again for the information, this is a terrfic forum, so much knowlege shared. I had come to a similar conclusion about the Watson/Nixon/Lowry connection. Last night I found another Watson/Nixon/Lowry plot, just need to find the link back to the family for Josepph Kennedy - will do some more sleuthing.

                          I hope I am not being too demanding by asking another question, but the Lowry I found last night was a James Lowry aged 3, I believe the child was the son of Eliza and Robert as I know from the census return she lost 3 children. it says the child died of diphtheria and its address was the Union Hospital (1898). On google I found that this was a workhouse, my question is does this mean the family were living in the workhouse?

                          Thanks for all your help.


                          From: Robert J.E. Simpson <rjesimpson@...>;
                          To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com <Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com>;
                          Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Belfast Mental Hospital
                          Sent: Thu, Jun 27, 2013 1:26:39 PM

                           

                          Fiona,

                          I think burials occasionally might have happened between different families (I'm sure I spotted at least one in my own tree), but its more likely that there is a family connection which you aren't aware of - probably through siblings.

                          You can purchase copy of the burial records for each of the 4 bodies in that grave, which will confirm (usually) cause of death, and also who was responsible for grave/funeral. This may help indicate a family connection. Records are £1.50 each.

                          The fact that the Lowry burials bookend the other burials in the plot would again suggest that there must be a family connection.

                          Robert Lowry - d 7 Feb 1918 (age 43)
                          Jane Nixon - d 23 Sep 1923 (age 43)
                          Joseph Kennedy - d 13 May 1925 (age 38)
                          Eliza Lowry - d 3 Aug 1928 (age 64)

                          Jane Nixon was at 46 Cobermore St in 1911 where she is listed as Ann Jane (age is 29 on original, not 22 as given in transcription) http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/St__George_s/Combermere_Street/162356/

                          I note she is step-daughter of Edward Watson (married to Ann), and they married around 1902. Both Ann and her daughter (Ann) Jane were born in Tyrone.


                          I note from the 1911 census that Eliza Lowry was also born in Tyrone, which makes me wonder if perhaps Eliza and Jane were sisters?
                          http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/St__George_s/Hurst_Street/155443/ 

                          Eliza and Robert married c. 1892.

                          There's not a clear indication from those records what the maiden name was, and I'm not 100% certain from the records I have access to either. I found a couple of Rea marriages which *might* fit.

                          I'm willing to bet Joseph is part of the same Tyrone family - either a sibling, or the child of a sibling of Eliza and Jane.

                          Robert








                          On 25 June 2013 13:30, fionalowry@... <fionalowry@...> wrote:
                           

                          Hello from freezing Melbourne

                          A few months back you helped me with a query on my GG uncle William Lowry and uncovered my GGG grandparents burial records from the Belfast Cemetary. When I downloaded the information, I found they were buried with two other people, one in particular I found rather interesting.

                          Joseph Kennedy, previously of 22 Kensington St Belfast who died on 13 May 1925 of 'brain troubles' in the Belfast Mental Hospital.

                          It seems I can put a request in writing to the hospital to get some information on this patient, so I will endeavour to do so. My questions for the forum are of a more general nature (although any information about this person would be thankfully received).

                          Was it common for people to be buried with people not in their immediate family?
                          Does anyone know where I can learn more about the hospital at that time?

                          Kind regards
                          Fiona


                        • Elwyn Soutter
                            Fiona,   Prior to the National Health Service being set up in 1948, the only free hospital treatment generally available in the UK was that provided by the
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jun 27, 2013
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                            Fiona,
                             
                            Prior to the National Health Service being set up in 1948, the only free hospital treatment generally available in the UK was that provided by the hospitals attached to the workhouses. So when people were seriously ill and couldn’t pay for private treatment, they were sometimes taken to the workhouse hospital.
                             
                            The workhouse admission books will show James being admitted to the workhouse, (and you might want to check them out at PRONI – MIC15F). I think it will say: “to the infirmary” or similar, against his name on the same date he was admitted. So technically he was in the workhouse, but that was probably simply in order to obtain the free treatment he needed that his parents couldn’t otherwise afford. (I have seen several similar entries in the workhouse records).
                             
                            You would obviously need to check the workhouse records to confirm whether my opinion is correct. However the clue for me that he didn’t routinely live there is the fact that he is buried in a proper grave. The family were evidently able to pay for that. Long term residents would not normally have been able to afford a grave (they wouldn’t be in the workhouse if they could) and were buried in “common ground” ie a pauper’s grave. You’ll see plenty of those on the Belfast burials site you have been using.
                             
                            Incidentally when the workhouse system was wound up in the 1940s, many of the hospitals attached to them were kept going and became part of the National Health Service. That happened in Belfast. The name changed over the years. Today it is called Belfast City Hospital but it is on the site of the workhouse infirmary. I don’t think any of the original workhouse infirmary buildings remain in Belfast but in Ballymena the modern Waveney Hospital still uses the workhouse buildings. (There is a preservation order on them, and an explanatory board at the entrance giving the history).
                             
                             
                            Elwyn


                            From: Fiona Lowry <fionalowry@...>
                            To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com; Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, 28 June 2013, 1:09
                            Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Belfast Mental Hospital

                             
                            Thanks again for the information, this is a terrfic forum, so much knowlege shared. I had come to a similar conclusion about the Watson/Nixon/Lowry connection. Last night I found another Watson/Nixon/Lowry plot, just need to find the link back to the family for Josepph Kennedy - will do some more sleuthing.

                            I hope I am not being too demanding by asking another question, but the Lowry I found last night was a James Lowry aged 3, I believe the child was the son of Eliza and Robert as I know from the census return she lost 3 children. it says the child died of diphtheria and its address was the Union Hospital (1898). On google I found that this was a workhouse, my question is does this mean the family were living in the workhouse?

                            Thanks for all your help.


                            From: Robert J.E. Simpson <rjesimpson@...>;
                            To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com <Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com>;
                            Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Belfast Mental Hospital
                            Sent: Thu, Jun 27, 2013 1:26:39 PM

                             
                            Fiona,

                            I think burials occasionally might have happened between different families (I'm sure I spotted at least one in my own tree), but its more likely that there is a family connection which you aren't aware of - probably through siblings.

                            You can purchase copy of the burial records for each of the 4 bodies in that grave, which will confirm (usually) cause of death, and also who was responsible for grave/funeral. This may help indicate a family connection. Records are £1.50 each.

                            The fact that the Lowry burials bookend the other burials in the plot would again suggest that there must be a family connection.

                            Robert Lowry - d 7 Feb 1918 (age 43)
                            Jane Nixon - d 23 Sep 1923 (age 43)
                            Joseph Kennedy - d 13 May 1925 (age 38)
                            Eliza Lowry - d 3 Aug 1928 (age 64)

                            Jane Nixon was at 46 Cobermore St in 1911 where she is listed as Ann Jane (age is 29 on original, not 22 as given in transcription) http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/St__George_s/Combermere_Street/162356/

                            I note she is step-daughter of Edward Watson (married to Ann), and they married around 1902. Both Ann and her daughter (Ann) Jane were born in Tyrone.


                            I note from the 1911 census that Eliza Lowry was also born in Tyrone, which makes me wonder if perhaps Eliza and Jane were sisters?
                            http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/St__George_s/Hurst_Street/155443/ 

                            Eliza and Robert married c. 1892.

                            There's not a clear indication from those records what the maiden name was, and I'm not 100% certain from the records I have access to either. I found a couple of Rea marriages which *might* fit.

                            I'm willing to bet Joseph is part of the same Tyrone family - either a sibling, or the child of a sibling of Eliza and Jane.

                            Robert








                            On 25 June 2013 13:30, fionalowry@... <fionalowry@...> wrote:
                             
                            Hello from freezing Melbourne

                            A few months back you helped me with a query on my GG uncle William Lowry and uncovered my GGG grandparents burial records from the Belfast Cemetary. When I downloaded the information, I found they were buried with two other people, one in particular I found rather interesting.

                            Joseph Kennedy, previously of 22 Kensington St Belfast who died on 13 May 1925 of 'brain troubles' in the Belfast Mental Hospital.

                            It seems I can put a request in writing to the hospital to get some information on this patient, so I will endeavour to do so. My questions for the forum are of a more general nature (although any information about this person would be thankfully received).

                            Was it common for people to be buried with people not in their immediate family?
                            Does anyone know where I can learn more about the hospital at that time?

                            Kind regards
                            Fiona




                          • Fiona Lowry
                            Robert Thanks for the time you have put into this, you have certainly firmed up a family connection. From a quick search I think Anne married Andrew in Omagh
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jun 28, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Robert

                              Thanks for the time you have put into this, you have certainly firmed up a family connection. From a quick search I think Anne married Andrew in Omagh in 1880 so you have helped me to refine where I now look for relatives in this family line.

                              Many thanks

                              Fiona


                              From: Robert J.E. Simpson <rjesimpson@...>;
                              To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com <Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com>;
                              Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Belfast Mental Hospital
                              Sent: Thu, Jun 27, 2013 11:42:04 PM

                               

                              Fiona,

                              Further to email earlier today, did a little more looking at the Belfast City Cemetery records, which may shed further light on this.

                              We already know Ann Nixon was living as a widow in Boyne Square in Belfast in 1901, and her youngest child is listed as 5 years old.

                              So, searching through the Nixons systematically by year I found her late husband was Andrew Nixon, died 6 January 1896, aged 56, last residence 48 Boyne Square. Plot is at Belfast City Cemetery, plot L2 458.

                              Further evidence of the family ties between Watson, Lowry and Nixon is in this grave. The other inhabitants are (in order of burial):

                              James Lowry, died at Union Hospital, last residence 51 Teutonic Street, d. 16 June 1898, aged 3
                              Margaret Nixon of 25 Boyne Square, died 15 January 1902, aged 42
                              Annie Morgan of 162 Sandy Row, died 30 March 1914, aged 1
                              Ann Watson of 49 Combermere St [possibly a typo], died 7 August 1956 aged 96. 

                              Again, you can purchase the individual burial records through the website.

                              Hope this is of help.

                              Robert

                            • fairsjau
                              Gordon, They stayed there as the grave was classified as a public grave and I believe they could take up to 6 burials in the same grave. Jennie
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jun 29, 2013
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                                Gordon,

                                They stayed there as the grave was classified as a "public" grave and I believe they could take up to 6 burials in the same grave.

                                Jennie

                                --- In Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "Gordon Crooks" <gordoncrooks@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Jennie: Question what happened to the original burials in the grave after it was sold to another fasmily ? While I am not sure, it would seem to me that there would be a limit to how many could be buried in the same grave.
                                >
                                > Gordon
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: fairsjau
                                > To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 6:53 PM
                                > Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Re: Belfast Mental Hospital
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I can't speak for Ireland but in England you could purchase a "private" grave which then only family members were buried in. This was a lot more expensive than the normal grave which could then be sold on to someone else for burial. My Irish family who moved to Bradford Yorkshire did this. They purchased a grave and 3 or 4 members of the family were buried in it, then it was resold and another couple of other people were buried in it.
                                >
                                > Jennie Fairs
                                >
                                > --- In Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "fionalowry@" <fionalowry@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hello from freezing Melbourne
                                > >
                                > > A few months back you helped me with a query on my GG uncle William Lowry and uncovered my GGG grandparents burial records from the Belfast Cemetary. When I downloaded the information, I found they were buried with two other people, one in particular I found rather interesting.
                                > >
                                > > Joseph Kennedy, previously of 22 Kensington St Belfast who died on 13 May 1925 of 'brain troubles' in the Belfast Mental Hospital.
                                > >
                                > > It seems I can put a request in writing to the hospital to get some information on this patient, so I will endeavour to do so. My questions for the forum are of a more general nature (although any information about this person would be thankfully received).
                                > >
                                > > Was it common for people to be buried with people not in their immediate family?
                                > > Does anyone know where I can learn more about the hospital at that time?
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Kind regards
                                > > Fiona
                                > >
                                >
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