Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Custody of church records.

Expand Messages
  • Karen B
    Would love to know more of these Thompson brothers in Ahoghill as we are related to Thompsons of that village. Where are the transcribed records held?
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 21, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      Would love to know more of these Thompson brothers in Ahoghill as we are related to Thompsons of that village. Where are the transcribed records held?

      --- In Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com, OLeoghain@... wrote:
      >
      > Even now Irish church records are sometimes kept in the homes of members.
      > The records for one of the Ahoghill churches were in the possession of
      > the Thompson brothers only a few years ago, when I visited them and one of my
      > cousins transcribed a copy by hand. Even those of First Broughshane are
      > not in the church, but rather in the home of one of the members who is very
      > busy and hard to contact.
      >
      > Gordon, what will happen to all the records you personally possess when you
      > move on to the next realm?
      >
      > I have made copies of my records and handed them to the Heinz History
      > Center and to the Mercer County Historical Society, where my originals will go
      > when I pass.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > In a message dated 1/21/2013 11:55:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      > elwynsoutter@... writes:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Gordon,
      >
      > There’s no question that we are envious of your excellent records. Some
      > Presbyterians here did keep records, and knew that they should keep them.
      > But clearly sometimes they didn’t keep them and it also appears they weren’t
      > always very good at keeping them safe. I am not sure how much suppression
      > there was. It seems to me more just carelessness, and laid back attitudes
      > to record keeping and safe storage.
      >
      > Antrim 1st Presbyterian church has records from 1677 when the church was
      > founded. Likewise Lisburn 1st Presbyterian church whose records start in
      > 1692. So some Presbyterian churches do have fairly complete records. But then
      > you have Clough (founded in the 1670s) where the early records were
      > accidentally destroyed in a fire (the caretaker reportedly burned them thinking
      > no-one was likely to need them); Maghera where the early records were lost
      > when the church was burned down in the 1798 United Irishmen uprising;
      > likewise I think some Ballymoney records were also lost in the 1798 uprising;
      > Killymurris (founded 1796) where the first Minister had a drink problem, and
      > his successor was noted for his “relaxed style”. Neither left any records.
      > And so on.
      >
      > As evidence of the fact that some Ministers knew they should be keeping
      > records, here’s a quote from the Rev Witherow who took over as Minister in
      > Maghera in the late 1840s:
      >
      > “Shortly after my ordination in this congregation as Assistant to the Rev.
      > Charles Kennedy and Successor to Rev. Smylie Robson now Missionary to the
      > Jews at Damascus, I made application to the Senior Pastor for any documents
      > in his possession that might throw light upon the history of our
      > Congregation, but he informed me that by some accident most of all the records in
      > his possession had been destroyed - he did not tell me however that he had
      > any older than his own time, but said that on order of the Synod of Ulster
      > had had at an early period of his ministry written a history of the
      > Congregation which had been given in to the body, but he did not know what had come
      > of it. I received no public documents whatever from him.”
      >
      > The Rev Kennedy was Minister at Maghera for over 40 years. I love the
      > relaxed and casual way he was able to inform his successor that nearly half a
      > century’s worth of records, and presumably an entire lifetime’s work, had
      > been more or less totally destroyed “by some accident”. Doesn’t seem to
      > have bothered him too much.
      >
      > There’s a history of Ballymena written around 1860 which commented that
      > though the 3 main denominations in the town all had churches there from the
      > 1600s, none had any records before about 1800. The blame in that case was
      > laid on clergymen who the writer thought took the records away with them when
      > they moved on to a new church.
      >
      > So the references to lost records that I have come across all seem to
      > point towards human frailty, civil disorder or perhaps hungry mice rather than
      > to official suppression. But that’s just my view.
      >
      >
      > Elwyn
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ____________________________________
      > From: Gordon Crooks
      > To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, 21 January 2013, 15:29
      > Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Irish records free this Thursday 24 Jan
      > 2013
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > 
      > Elwyn: Yes I know Valerie Adams and she did a personal search of the
      > Societies early records for me and found nothing. Personally I think the reason
      > is not so much the Dublin four courts fires as the actual cause of so
      > little before about 1750 is simply due to the fact that the Pastors either did
      > not keep records or they took them with them when they retired and/or
      > destroyed them.. I tend to lean towards no recording keeping since the
      > Presbyterian's early on were not welcomed nor recognized by the Crown. That plus
      > eventually being under the control of the Church of Ireland.
      >
      > Valerie would probably weep to see the copious records of the early 1700's
      > Convenanters here. One early Pastor recorded 40 years of his of his
      > pastorage.. I have tons of the early yearly synod meetings, who was in
      > attendance, what was discussed erc . For just one Presbyterty I have ever single
      > membership, births, marriages, and burials starting from about the late 1740's
      > to 1939.
      >
      > This all leads me to believe that records and actual church proceedings
      > were simply surpressed and thus the lack of early records. I actually
      > determined the arrival of my ancestors from the church records he. It has always
      > been believed we arrived in the 1740's - not true my settler was one of the
      > 1738 trustee's who established the Convenanter Church in Franklin Co., Pa.,
      > so I estimated they arrived no later than 1737.
      >
      > Gordon
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: _Elwyn Soutter_ (mailto:elwynsoutter@...)
      > To: _Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com_
      > (mailto:Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com)
      > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 9:19 AM
      > Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Irish records free this Thursday 24 Jan
      > 2013
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Gordon,
      >
      > I don’t really know what their earliest records are. They do have
      > Encumbered Estates records from the 1850s which list leases granted in the 1790s.
      > There probably isn’t too much earlier than that. That’s the basic problem
      > with Irish research as you know.
      >
      > I recently had a chat with Valerie Adams at the Presbyterian Historical
      > Society in Belfats about old Presbyterian church records. She reckoned that
      > around the year 1800, there were about 100 Presbyterian churches in Co.
      > Antrim. We counted up and concluded there are only 8 that still have records
      > that cover the 1700s (and then not necessarily all of the century). So, on
      > the basis of that little example you can see how difficult it is to research
      > the 1700s in Ireland.
      >
      > Elwyn
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ____________________________________
      > From: Gordon Crooks
      > To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, 21 January 2013, 12:42
      > Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Irish records free this Thursday 24 Jan
      > 2013
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi Elwyn: How far back do these records go ? I am looking at about 1700 to
      > 1730 period of time.
      >
      > Gordon
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: _elwynsoutter_ (mailto:elwynsoutter@...)
      > To: _Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com_
      > (mailto:Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com)
      > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 5:52 AM
      > Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Irish records free this Thursday 24 Jan 2013
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Irish records free this Thursday 24 Jan 2013
      >
      > Family historians will be able to access 21 million birth, marriage, and
      > death records free of charge, on Thursday 24th of January on findmypast
      > Ireland.
      >
      > _http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Online_ (http://www.irishcentral
      > com/news/Online) ... 78211.html
      >
      >
      >
      > No virus found in this message.
      > Checked by AVG - _www.avg.com_ (http://www.avg.com/)
      > Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2639/6045 - Release Date: 01/20/13
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > No virus found in this message.
      > Checked by AVG - _www.avg.com_ (http://www.avg.com/)
      > Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2639/6045 - Release Date: 01/20/13
      >
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.