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Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Re: Hughes & McNally/McAnally in Antrim

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  • Elwyn Soutter
    Karen, I checked my notes. Dr McKelvey s records start in 1935 when the graveyard was extended. The new bit is the area furthest from the church. If you are
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 1, 2012
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      Karen,

      I checked my notes. Dr McKelvey's records start in 1935 when the graveyard was extended. The new bit is the area furthest from the church. If you are interested in any burials after 1935, then you can contact him on hillmacmount@...  (There's supposed to be a grave in the old part of the cemetery for someone who was hanged for stealing a sheep, though I have never been able to find it).

      I think you have touched on part of the explanation about why there are no older records, in that every family knew where their ancestors graves were, and would show the undertaker when a new burial was required. Therefore no-one really needed a graveyard map. With migration etc, much of that older information has now been lost for families that no longer have descendants in the immediate area.

      Elwyn


      From: Karen Hughes <campaspe12@...>
      To: "Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com" <Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, 1 March 2012, 3:56
      Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Re: Hughes & McNally/McAnally in Antrim

       
      Elwyn
       
      Thanks for the burial info.  Will look up Dr McKelvey but it doesn't seem likely I'll find them if they not marked.
      I also asked the St Mary's Ahoghill graveyard supervisor how they knew where to dig new graves on being told there records only went back to 1950's, with some of them being only what older residents remembered.
       
      Karen


    • Gordon Crooks
      Karen & Linda: I saw the Hughes msgs. apparently there were two major Hughes groups because the ones who married in my family here in the mid `1700 s were
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 1, 2012
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        Karen & Linda: I saw the Hughes msgs. apparently there were two major Hughes groups because the ones who married in my family here in the mid `1700's were Presbyterian Convenanters - none were Catholic. Family lore has it that they came over on the same ship as my Crooks and other family groups did. What is also interesting is there were apparently a fair amount of kids among them and we later have marriages of the McClure's, Dunn's, Hughes and others. . here in Pennsylvania.
         
                                                           Gordon
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 11:13 PM
        Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Re: Hughes & McNally/McAnally in Antrim

         

        Linda
         
        Thanks for the marriage cert.  Eliza must be a sister to my McNally's.
         
        I do know about the Hughes' in Crebilly cemetery.  They are my Hughes', Henry, his son George and 4 of George's daughters.  I don't know why they are buried at Crebilly as the Hughes' seem to have attended St Mary's RC Ahoghill, have found most of the children baptised there.
         
        I was looking for burial of Henry's wife Sarah d. 1898.  George's dau Matilda who died 1917 is buried in that grave & mentioned on the headstone.  If Sarah's there I wonder why she wasn't added.  Her son George didn't die til 1908.  That seems to be a lot of people in the one grave.
         
        Sarah listed her residence as Moravin on her marriage but haven't been able to find her in their records or cemetery.
         
        My William McIlrath was b. 1833 to King & Jennie (McIlrath) McIlrath.
         
        Karen

      • Elwyn Soutter
        I have sent Karen a PM re the marriage cert. Elwyn ________________________________ From: Linda Holley To:
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 6, 2012
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          I have sent Karen a PM re the marriage cert.

          Elwyn


          From: Linda Holley <ljholley@...>
          To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, 29 February 2012, 11:32
          Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Re: Hughes & McNally/McAnally in Antrim

           
          Karen,

          I have an Elizabeth (Eliza) McAnally married to James Burnside. I have her birth date about 1831. She died February 1862. They lived in Galgorm Parks which is quite close to Cullybackey.

          I know at one time there was another person on this list researching the surname McAnally but have been unsuccessful in finding them.

          Elwyn sent me their marriage record but I seem to be unable to enlarge it enough to read. Perhaps it will resend it to me and also send you a copy.

          Linda

          --- In Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Karen Hughes <campaspe12@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Everyone
          >  
          > I am researching Hughes and McNally/McAnally from Ballyclose, Cullybackey, Ahoghill areas.
          > Hughes' include Henry & Sarah (Cooke) Hughes & children Patrick (my line), Edward, Anne, George, Andrew, Henry, Jane & Margaret.
          > Patrick b. 1830 married Catherine McNally 1852 then immigrated to Australia 1863. 
          > Edward b. 1834 m. 1857 Betty Davison, also from Ballyclose. Can find no trace of them.
          > Anne b. 1835 m. 1854 Henry McNally, brother of Catherine. Remained in Ireland.
          > George b. 1837 m. 1861 Jane Milliken. Remained in Ireland.
          > Andrew b. 1840.  No trace.
          > Henry b. 1843 m. 1868 Catherine Hatton. Remained in Ireland
          > Jane b. 1845 m. 1868 Robert Reilly.  Remained in Ireland.
          > Margaret b. unknown. Had 2 daughters, Sarah b. 1872 & Annie b. 1876 father not recorded for both.
          >  
          > McNallys' Samuel & Anne (Lavender) McNally & children Catherine, Henry & Matilda. Possibly more.
          > Catherine b. abt.1825 m. 1852 Patrick Hughes.
          > Henry b. abt.1831 m. 1854 Anne Hughes.
          > Matilda b. 1838 m. 1858 William McIlrath, immigrated to Australia abt. 1860.
          > (McNally also spelt McAnally thru the records.)
          >  
          > Can anyone tell me how to find out where some of the above are buried?  Have searched local graveyards on previous visits to Ireland.  Found some with headstones, but spouses who died later haven't be added to stones or are buried elsewhere.  Is there anyway to find out?  Surely there must be burial records somewhere.  Spoke to local Undertakers but there records do not go back far enough.  Burials I am looking for are in 1920's & 30's.
          > Hughes are Catholic and McNallys may be Presbyterian as Matilda gave that are her religion on her marriage.
          > Will be visiting Ireland again in May and would like to find Burial places.
          >  
          > Karen (in Australia)
          >



        • Alistair McCartney
          Elwyn, I wonder if the story of someone being hanged for stealing a sheep has got confused with my relative who was hanged in 1800 for being involved with the
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 6, 2012
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            Elwyn,
             
            I wonder if the story of someone being hanged for stealing a sheep has got confused with my relative who was hanged in 1800 for being involved with the United Irishmen. The grave is in the old part of Cullybackey Reformed Presbyterian - Row S No.7. There is a sandstone headstone inscribed:
             
            Erected to the Memory of James Giffin late of Cullybackey who DepD this life 24TH of April 1800 agD 20 yrs
             
            This does not give the circumstances but luckily it was written down 95 years later by a probable relative. Note the Giffin and Given families seem to be one and the same.
             
            Ulster Journal of Archaeology Vol IL October 1895 No.i
            Memories of '98. by Rev W S Smith - The Fate of James Giffen.
            One of the forms of punishment inflicted upon United Irishmen was that of flogging. An old man named Esler, for some offence not specified, was sentenced to undergo this punishment at Clough, near Ballymena, when James Giffen of Cullybackey, a young man of about twenty years of age, along with others, assembled to witness the order being carried out. This was to be done by soldiers who were to give Esler fifty lashes. When the man had received thirty, he fainted. This incident touched young Giffen, who, being of an impulsive disposition, at once threw off his coat and begged to be allowed to receive the remaining twenty lashes instead of the old man. This is said to have been James Giffen's only offence. It was asserted that such conduct pointed to his leadership among the Insurrectionists, of whom it was necessary to make an example! He was therefore at once arrested, conveyed to Ballymena, tried by court-martial, and actually sentenced to be hanged!
            To render the sentence as harrowing as possible, he was made to follow his own coffin to Cullybackey, a distance of about four miles, where, on the branch of a tree that stood near the Reformed Presbyterian Meeting-house, and not far from his own home, he was executed, his sweetheart, his mother, and other relatives being close at hand at the time. (Authority-Thomas Given, of Markstown.)
             
            Alistair McCartney
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 8:38 AM
            Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Re: Hughes & McNally/McAnally in Antrim
            Karen,

            I checked my notes. Dr McKelvey's records start in 1935 when the graveyard was extended. The new bit is the area furthest from the church. If you are interested in any burials after 1935, then you can contact him on hillmacmount@...  (There's supposed to be a grave in the old part of the cemetery for someone who was hanged for stealing a sheep, though I have never been able to find it).

            I think you have touched on part of the explanation about why there are no older records, in that every family knew where their ancestors graves were, and would show the undertaker when a new burial was required. Therefore no-one really needed a graveyard map. With migration etc, much of that older information has now been lost for families that no longer have descendants in the immediate area.

            Elwyn
          • Elwyn Soutter
            Alistair, How very interesting. It could well be the same story with just all the dates, people and facts changed, as they say. If accurate, it is very moving.
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 6, 2012
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              Alistair,

              How very interesting. It could well be the same story with just all the dates, people and facts changed, as they say. If accurate, it is very moving. My information came from the caretaker at Cunningham Memorial Presbyterian church (himself a former member of the RP). I was very interested to know more about his story but unfortunately he couldn’t add anything to the basic information he had given me.  It could well be that your ancestor was the hanged man the story is really about. I shall look for his grave the next time I am there.
               
              I am sure that all these local graveyards are full of interesting people if we but knew. I live a few miles away in Duneane parish and Roddy McCorley is buried in the Church of Ireland graveyard there. He is famous nowadays, mostly because there is an excellent folk song about him. He was reportedly a United Irishman and was certainly hanged at Toomebridge, on the River Bann, in February 1800. He was buried in the middle of the road at the Antrim end of the bridge, meaning that everyone who crossed the bridge would have to walk over his body. About 60 years later a road repair gang, working on the bridge, dug his body up one night and reburied it in Duneane graveyard, reportedly his family graveyard. (His exact religious denomination remains a mystery, as there are competing claims he was Roman Catholic as well as Presbyterian. His parents appear to have been a mixed marriage, and we’ll never know now).
               
              When you start to dig into the facts a bit, there are some strange anomalies. According to a contemporaneous newspaper report his name was actually Roger McCorley. None of the known leaders of the United Irishmen in the area (most of whom were captured after the battle of Antrim, then tried and either transported or pardoned, but - with the exception of Henry Joy McCracken - not hanged) included anyone called Roddy McCorley, and indeed there’s little hard evidence of him being significantly involved with the United Irishmen at all. He seems very unlikely therefore have been executed for that. He reportedly spent much of his time engaged in criminal activity including highway robbery, and it appears to be that, rather than his United Irish links, that got him hanged. He spent a year or so on the run in 1799, part of the Archer gang, living in hiding in a farm just along the road from where I live (according to the current occupants) but his antisocial behaviour meant he didn’t have many friends in the area and a local water bailiff in Toome eventually denounced him to the authorities. A letter in the Newsletter (March 1800) says, after his execution: “it is proper to observe that the whole part of his life was devoted to disorderly proceedings of every kind”. So he was probably hanged for being a thief and a highwayman, not a United Irishman. But never let the facts get in the way of a good story, as they say.
               
              It makes an excellent folk song. Here’s the late Tommy Makem giving a very fine version of it:
               



              From: Alistair McCartney <al@...>
              To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, 6 March 2012, 21:16
              Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Re: Hughes & McNally/McAnally in Antrim

               
              
              Elwyn,
               
              I wonder if the story of someone being hanged for stealing a sheep has got confused with my relative who was hanged in 1800 for being involved with the United Irishmen. The grave is in the old part of Cullybackey Reformed Presbyterian - Row S No.7. There is a sandstone headstone inscribed:
               
              Erected to the Memory of James Giffin late of Cullybackey who DepD this life 24TH of April 1800 agD 20 yrs
               
              This does not give the circumstances but luckily it was written down 95 years later by a probable relative. Note the Giffin and Given families seem to be one and the same.
               
              Ulster Journal of Archaeology Vol IL October 1895 No.i
              Memories of '98. by Rev W S Smith - The Fate of James Giffen.
              One of the forms of punishment inflicted upon United Irishmen was that of flogging. An old man named Esler, for some offence not specified, was sentenced to undergo this punishment at Clough, near Ballymena, when James Giffen of Cullybackey, a young man of about twenty years of age, along with others, assembled to witness the order being carried out. This was to be done by soldiers who were to give Esler fifty lashes. When the man had received thirty, he fainted. This incident touched young Giffen, who, being of an impulsive disposition, at once threw off his coat and begged to be allowed to receive the remaining twenty lashes instead of the old man. This is said to have been James Giffen's only offence. It was asserted that such conduct pointed to his leadership among the Insurrectionists, of whom it was necessary to make an example! He was therefore at once arrested, conveyed to Ballymena, tried by court-martial, and actually sentenced to be hanged!
              To render the sentence as harrowing as possible, he was made to follow his own coffin to Cullybackey, a distance of about four miles, where, on the branch of a tree that stood near the Reformed Presbyterian Meeting-house, and not far from his own home, he was executed, his sweetheart, his mother, and other relatives being close at hand at the time. (Authority-Thomas Given, of Markstown.)
               
              Alistair McCartney
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 8:38 AM
              Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Re: Hughes & McNally/McAnally in Antrim
              Karen,

              I checked my notes. Dr McKelvey's records start in 1935 when the graveyard was extended. The new bit is the area furthest from the church. If you are interested in any burials after 1935, then you can contact him on hillmacmount@...  (There's supposed to be a grave in the old part of the cemetery for someone who was hanged for stealing a sheep, though I have never been able to find it).

              I think you have touched on part of the explanation about why there are no older records, in that every family knew where their ancestors graves were, and would show the undertaker when a new burial was required. Therefore no-one really needed a graveyard map. With migration etc, much of that older information has now been lost for families that no longer have descendants in the immediate area.

              Elwyn


            • Linda Holley
              I sent her a copy last week. Linda
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 6, 2012
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                I sent her a copy last week.

                Linda
                --- In Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Elwyn Soutter <elwynsoutter@...> wrote:
                >
                > I have sent Karen a PM re the marriage cert.
                >
                > Elwyn
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Linda Holley <ljholley@...>
                > To: Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Wednesday, 29 February 2012, 11:32
                > Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] Re: Hughes & McNally/McAnally in Antrim
                >
                >
                >  
                > Karen,
                >
                > I have an Elizabeth (Eliza) McAnally married to James Burnside. I have her birth date about 1831. She died February 1862. They lived in Galgorm Parks which is quite close to Cullybackey.
                >
                > I know at one time there was another person on this list researching the surname McAnally but have been unsuccessful in finding them.
                >
                > Elwyn sent me their marriage record but I seem to be unable to enlarge it enough to read. Perhaps it will resend it to me and also send you a copy.
                >
                > Linda
                >
                > --- In Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Karen Hughes <campaspe12@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi Everyone
                > >  
                > > I am researching Hughes and McNally/McAnally from Ballyclose, Cullybackey, Ahoghill areas.
                > > Hughes' include Henry & Sarah (Cooke) Hughes & children Patrick (my line), Edward, Anne, George, Andrew, Henry, Jane & Margaret.
                > > Patrick b. 1830 married Catherine McNally 1852 then immigrated to Australia 1863. 
                > > Edward b. 1834 m. 1857 Betty Davison, also from Ballyclose. Can find no trace of them.
                > > Anne b. 1835 m. 1854 Henry McNally, brother of Catherine. Remained in Ireland.
                > > George b. 1837 m. 1861 Jane Milliken. Remained in Ireland.
                > > Andrew b. 1840.  No trace.
                > > Henry b. 1843 m. 1868 Catherine Hatton. Remained in Ireland
                > > Jane b. 1845 m. 1868 Robert Reilly.  Remained in Ireland.
                > > Margaret b. unknown. Had 2 daughters, Sarah b. 1872 & Annie b. 1876 father not recorded for both.
                > >  
                > > McNallys' Samuel & Anne (Lavender) McNally & children Catherine, Henry & Matilda. Possibly more.
                > > Catherine b. abt.1825 m. 1852 Patrick Hughes.
                > > Henry b. abt.1831 m. 1854 Anne Hughes.
                > > Matilda b. 1838 m. 1858 William McIlrath, immigrated to Australia abt. 1860.
                > > (McNally also spelt McAnally thru the records.)
                > >  
                > > Can anyone tell me how to find out where some of the above are buried?  Have searched local graveyards on previous visits to Ireland.  Found some with headstones, but spouses who died later haven't be added to stones or are buried elsewhere.  Is there anyway to find out?  Surely there must be burial records somewhere.  Spoke to local Undertakers but there records do not go back far enough.  Burials I am looking for are in 1920's & 30's.
                > > Hughes are Catholic and McNallys may be Presbyterian as Matilda gave that are her religion on her marriage.
                > > Will be visiting Ireland again in May and would like to find Burial places.
                > >  
                > > Karen (in Australia)
                > >
                >
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