6593Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] RE: McMullen or McMullan, Herbison, and Orr of County Antrim
- Oct 9 7:23 AMYes, that is what I also found when I did my cursory search a while back.
If I am understanding correctly, from what I am being told regarding my father's closest Y-DNA matches, his McMullens (sp?) were in Counties Down and Meath originally, maybe even as far south as Cork. I am not sure what the time line is, or what caused them to move yet.
Thank you again!
AmyOn Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 4:46 AM, <mjumpherson@...> wrote:
According to Griffiths Revalutaion Books, in the Townland of Moylarg which is only 2 or 3 miles (approx.) northwest of Laymore, there is a Wm. McMullen taking over a property (house, offices and land) owned by Wm. J. Paul in 1868. Map references 4a and 5. Continuing to parcels/map references 7 and 8 we see Wm. McMullen taking over land from a James Paul in the same year. Parcel 6d records a James Herbison with a house and next to him on 7a is a Jane Paul in another house.
In the Townland of Fenagh (between Moylarg and almost adjacent to Laymore) is a James Herbison, Moses Paul and numerous other Pauls.
And as Elwyn mentioned, numerous Herbisons in Laymore but no Pauls or McMullens.
---In email@example.com, <elwynsoutter@...> wrote:
Amy,Leymore (sometimes spelled Laymore) is fairly small (365 acres) with just 160 people living there in the 1901 census, in a total of about 31 houses, 4 of which were Herbison households. So if you know Mary Herbison came from Leymore, then there can’t be much doubt that she is related to the people in Griffiths etc.I did say that Adam Herbison’s absence from Griffiths in 1862 would suggest he had died. That’s generally true. Farmers rarely retired and so normally remained head of household till their death. However I did notice an Adam Herbison death registered in Ballymena in 1867 (Volume 16, page 77). Est year of birth 1790. It’s just possible that’s him. Death registration only started in Ireland in 1864, so if Mary’s father did die before that we won’t find a death cert, and this might just be a cousin or a coincidence. But I thought I’d mention it, in case you want to investigate.You can order a photocopy from GRO Roscommon for €4 per certificate. Put the place, year, quarter (where there is one), volume & page number on the application form (anywhere). http://www.groireland.ie/ You have to post or fax the form to them but they will e-mail the copy certificate to you if you wish. Put “please e-mail to…..” clearly on the top of the form.Elwyn
From: Amy Lewark <amy.lewark@...>
Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013, 1:51
Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] RE: McMullen or McMullan, Herbison, and Orr of County AntrimThank you, Colin and Elwyn, for the incredible amount of information you have just provided. It ought to keep me busy for a while.As for my family's religious affiliation, I am unsure. John H and Mary seemed to have been Episcopalian, whereas their son John FP McMullen was buried in Sacred Heart Catholic Church Cemetery in Wellsville.AmyOn Oct 7, 2013 2:49 AM, "Elwyn Soutter" <elwynsoutter@...> wrote:Amy,I said that if Adam Herbison was a farmer, then you would expect to find him in Griffiths Valuation. There are about 21 farms in Leymore in Griffiths. None occupied by Adam Herbison, so that suggests he had probably died by that date (1862).First we have a farm occupied by Matthew Hirbison (plot 6a) which was a farmhouse, outbuildings and just over 46 acres (making it a big farm for the area and time). Note that a Matthew Herbison was a witness to the 1854 marriage. A brother or an uncle perhaps?Second we have Mary Hirbison (Jem) on plot 9 who had a farmhouse, outbuildings and just under 8 acres.Beside her on plot 10, was another Mary Hirbison (Will) with a farmhouse, outbuildings and 22 acres.Finally on plot 11, we had Eliza Hirbison with 3 roods and 35 perches (which is just under 1 acre).These properties were all beside each other indicating the occupants are likely to have been related, and it would be easy to find them today, should you ever wish to do so. They are on the Old Ballymoney Rd, just on the modern outskirts of Ballymena, BT43). There are two Herbison households there to this day, in the current phone book, a B at no 31 and HD at 29a. Presumably these will be living descendants of some of the families in Griffiths and the 2 censuses.Hirbison is just a variation of Herbison, and is evidently how the clerks chose to record the name at that time. (Jem) and (Will) beside the two Mary Hirbisons tells us they were different people. The letters are what is called an agnomen, being a nickname used to tell the two apart. I would guess that both were widows and the 2 agnomens may have been their husbands’ names.You can trace each of the properties forward from the 1862 Primary Valuation, to see when they changed tenants etc, up to 1929, using the revaluation records. They are quite fiddly to use. Let me know if you can’t understand them:By way of an example, I had a quick look at and the records tell me that Matthew Herbison was replaced on property 6a by James Herbison in 1878. So you might then look for Matthew’s death around that time. The most likely one is a Matthew whose death was registered in Ballymena in 1875 Vol 16, page 65, whose estimated year of birth was 1798.Here are a couple of graves relating to the family:Herbison Kirkinriola Cemetery 1770 HERE WE REST IN PEACE HERE LIETH THE BODY OF MATTHEW HERBSION OF LAYMORE WHO DEPARTED THIS LIFE JUNE [?] THE 20TH 1770 AGED 60 YEARS. ALSO THE BODY OF MARTHA HIS WIFE WHO DEPARTED THIS LIFE JULY THE 31 17[?] AGED 58 YEARSHerbison Kirkinriola Cemetery 1843 ERECTED By Hugh Herbison of Laymore, IN MEMORY OF his daughter SARAH, who departed this life 10th April 1843, aged 22 years. Also SARAH HERBISON, died 13th Decr. 1949; And her husband HUGH, died 10th May 1958.Also a will I found. Here’s the abstract (summary). The full will is on-line on the PRONI website. It mentions and Ann Jane Paul of Leymore:Full Abstract :Probate of the Will of James Herbison late of Laymore County Antrim Farmer who died 21 May 1900 granted at Belfast to John Reid Junior Farmer's Son and William Thomson National School Teacher. Effects £114 10s. 10d.The marriage took place in the Church of Ireland. That’s unusual because, as you’ll see from the census information, without exception the family are listed as Presbyterians. Normally I would comment that tradition was to marry in the bride’s church and therefore that would be the place to look for Mary’s baptism and that of any siblings. I am not sure that that will be correct in this case.Should you wish to check them, the following records survive for that church and are held in PRONI, Belfast:C.I. Ahoghill (Connor diocese) Baptisms, 1811-1928, with the McKinney family details from 1802-23; marriages, 1811-1996; burials, 1821- 1952; banns, 1829-39.The records are not on-line (neither at PRONI nor on any pay to view site that I am aware of) and so a personal visit is required to view them. (Or you can get a researcher to do that for you).If the family were otherwise Presbyterian, and lived in Leymore, I would be inclined to search the records for the Presbyterian churches in Ballymena first. (There are 6 Presbyterian churches in the town but only 3 still have records for the 1830s. You could check those.).In addition, I would also check the tithe applotment records for Leymore (1825), to see if Adam Herbison is listed. If he is, then it should be possible to establish which of the 4 farms was his. A copy of the tithes is kept in PRONI, in Belfast. The records for Co Antrim are not on-line.I noticed from the 1901 census that there were still 3 Herbison/Harbison properties in Laymore/Leymore in 1911, plus one occupied the PAUL family who had a Herbison living there who was a cousin:And in 1911, there were 2 farms plus the Paul property with a Herbison living there:As I am sure you probably know being Presbyterian indicates Scottish origins (in common with 80% of the population in that area). The majority arrived in the 1600s. There’s an Adam Herbison listed in the 1766 religious census for the parish of Ahoghill, as a dissenter (ie Presbyterian). No townland listed, but might be your family.PRONI have a lease for this family in 1725 which again shows they have been there since at least that time.D929/HA12/F2/1/4110 June 1725Description : Lease of parcel of land in Leymore containing 50 acres of woodland measure: for 86 years: Sir Robert Adair to James Herbison, farmer.The Adair family were the big landowners in the Ballymena area. They come from Kinhilt, near Stranraer, in Wigtownshire, Scotland. Indeed the Adair family even re- named Ballymena Kinhiltstown, for a while. As you do. Many of their Scottish tenants accompanied them to the Ballymena area, in the 1620s, and so this can be a hint as to where in Scotland the Herbisons might have originated, though nowadays the name seems more common in Ayrshire (where it tends to be Harbison), rather than in Wigtownshire.There’s no sign of any McMullen household in Leymore, in Griffiths for 1862. That would point either to the family having left the townland, or to their having a property too small to be listed. There are about 14 Patrick McMullen households listed in Griffiths for Co Antrim but none in the immediate area around Leymore, so none stands out as likely to be your family. They are likely to be harder to trace.Elwyn
From: Amy Lewark <amy.lewark@...>
Sent: Sunday, 6 October 2013, 22:32
Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] RE: McMullen or McMullan, Herbison, and Orr of County Antrim [1 Attachment][Attachment(s) from Amy Lewark included below]Thank you, Elwyn.Here is my transcription, and the attached record, courtesy of Tom McMillan's search:Marriage solemnized at _McG?i?l Church_ in the _Parish_ of _Ahoghill_ in the _Co Antrim_
...John McMullen (20 - Bachelor) and Mary Herbison (21 - Spinster)Rank or Profession: LaborerResidence: LaymoreFather's name and surname: Patrick McMullen (Stone Mason) and Adam Herbison (Farmer)Married in the _Parish Church_ according to the rites and ceremonies of the United Church of England and Ireland
William Tyrrell Rectorin the presence of us _Hugh O Graham_ _Matthew Herbison_(Looks like it says "her mark" around Hugh O Graham?)
AmyOn Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Elwyn Soutter <elwynsoutter@...> wrote:Amy,
If you have the 1854 marriage certificate, what were John & Mary’s townlands (addresses) on that certificate? What was John’s occupation and what were the 2 father’s occupations? What church did they marry at in Ahoghill?The names Herbison and McMullen are both quite common in the Ballymena area. If I know which townland they came from I may be able to narrow the searchThere are several Adam Herbison and numerous McMullen/an deaths on the Braid site, but as I say I’d need the townland and occupations to try and see if any may be your family. (Farmers would generally be wealthy enough to have a gravestone, agricultural labouers/weavers would not).Elwyn
From: "amy.lewark@..." <amy.lewark@...>
Sent: Sunday, 6 October 2013, 5:03
Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] RE: McMullen or McMullan, Herbison, and Orr of County AntrimHi, everybody.My father is Tom McMillan's Y-DNA match. Like he said, we're trying to find information regarding John H McMullen and Mary Herbison. Tom found a marriage record for them at Ahoghill in 1854.Also of interest to me is anything on the Herbison family. Mary Herbison's parents were Adam Herbison and Jane Paul, according to her 1909 Nebraska Death Certificate. She was estimated to be 76 years old when she died. Her headstone indicates she was born September 26, 1832.
I am just getting started -- I honestly didn't know my McMullen line had connection to Ireland until our match with Tom and the arrival of Mary Herbison's death certificate last month. As recently as March, I was stuck on my great-grandfather George Adam McMullen, until we discovered that family lore that he was related (and named for) Nebraska's Governor Adam McMullen was true (and he claimed to be from Scotland).
Thank you for any help or wisdom you can provide.Amy (McMullen)
---In firstname.lastname@example.org, <elwynsoutter@...> wrote:Yes. Of course.
From: Linda Holley <ljholley@...>
Sent: Friday, 27 September 2013, 19:50
Subject: Re: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] RE: McMullen or McMullan, Herbison, and Orr of County AntrimDwight just thought of it - Gaston. I saw it on the Encumbered Records a few days ago but had forgotten it again. Sad :O)On Sep 27, 2013, at 1:56 PM, Elwyn Soutter wrote:Linda,
Yes I think that's right. I looked in my notes but can't see it but I think you are right. However I do remember Mrs H saying she didn't know much about her or her husband's families. Like most families here she could only go back about 3 generations. Earlier history was lost in the mists of time.
From: "ljholley@..." <ljholley@...>
Sent: Monday, 23 September 2013, 23:24
Subject: [Mid-AntrimGenealogy] RE: McMullen or McMullan, Herbison, and Orr of County Antrim
Elwyn,Was the family living in my Burnside property - Herbison? Neither Dwight nor I can remember their name.Linda
--- In Mid-AntrimGenealogy@yahoogroups.com, <email@example.com> wrote:Hi AllI've frequented the County Down Group for several years, and I'm new to the Antrim Group.I recently had a notification of a very good male y-DNA match from FTDNA (Family Tree DNA) where I tested. The earliest known ancestor of that match, was a John H McMullen who married a Mary Herbison at Ahoghill, County Antrim in 1854 according to a listing I've accessed at familysearch.org. I'm hoping to find out more about McMullen's and Herbison's who lived in this area. I'm also interested in knowing more about Ahoghill. It appears John's father was a Patrick McMullen, and the father of Mary was Adam Herbison. Most of this fits those I am researching and I think it is the correct marriage for the couple I"m researching. This couple were in New York by 1855, and by 1883 in Nebraska. I think my common ancestry would stem from Ireland.My own GG Grandfather was John McMullen/McMullan who married Margaet Orr at the Downpatrick Cathedral (C of I) May 2, 1844. John and Margaret had Arthur in Downpatrick in 1845, and were in Quebec by 1847. My John disappeared in Quebec by the 1851/52 census. Margaret and the boys were in Montreal that census, Margaret shows as married, but John is not on the census. They are staying with a Johnston family. I don't have a birth record for my John McMullen, so I'm not sure where or when he was born. My John McMullen was shown as a shoemaker on Arthur's birth record. I've found an Arthur McMullen born at Downpatrick about 1780 who was a shoemaker and served in the British Military. He could be John's father, but?? I've also thought my John could have been from County Antrim. He was said to have been disowned by his family for his marriage choice, so maybe they eloped to a different area??The 1861 Canada (Toronto) census, showed Margaret Orr was born at County Antrim. A sampler a family member has shows Margaret sewed it in 1833 at 10 years of age, so I believe she was born about December 1822. Margaret married at least 3 more times after John disappeared. On marriage records Margaret's parent's show as David and Catherine Orr. Hope to find out more about my Orr's also.Appreciate any thoughts or assistance.Thanks so much!! Tom McMillan (Washougal, WA, USA)
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