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Re: [Microscope] Re: The Big 4

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  • Chris Albertson
    China had an advantage with lower priced labor but as factories are becoming more automated the cost of labor in a product is going down. For example It only
    Message 1 of 37 , Mar 24, 2013
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      China had an advantage with lower priced labor but as factories are
      becoming more automated the cost of labor in a product is going down. For
      example It only takes about 35 man hours to build a car. Most of the work
      is done by robots (and parts suppliers) So even if you did not pay the
      workers at all and used slaves you'd only have about a 10% price advantage
      over a made in the US car.


      On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Mike Whittome <optekusa@...> wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Have to disagree on the strategy you mentioned about wiping away the big
      > 4. Actually my personal experiences there are that they are very happy to
      > have the production there and making somewhat copies or making additional
      > generic parts on ghost shifts etc.. or even establishing "Chinese brand
      > names" which have not really caught on to much of a degree. China makes
      > good and bad of everything and it is mostly dependent on the parent company
      > establishing the processes, tooling, QC inspection, mfg techniques and
      > design. It takes many years to build a "brand name" such as Sony or Hitachi
      > or BMW or any of the big 4 scope mfgs. So many big names of all types of
      > products are made there and not to inferior standards but to the same
      > standards they would be made anywhere. It's not the location of the
      > factory. It is who is running it to produce the quality needed.
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Mike
      >
      > --- On Sat, 3/16/13, rich_guy_looker <rich_guy_looker@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: rich_guy_looker <rich_guy_looker@...>
      > Subject: [Microscope] Re: The Big 4
      > To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Saturday, March 16, 2013, 11:29 AM
      >
      >
      >
      > In this fast-moving
      > industry, it makes no sense
      > to dwell on the past
      > about "the-big-4"
      >
      > Here's what I think
      > the "real-deal" is:
      >
      > The Chinese microscope-makers,
      > with their own (Chinese) name,
      > are absolutely determined
      > to dominate the world-wide
      > microscope market, and wipe away
      > the "big-4" as in the same quality
      > at much lower prices
      > and/or superior technical-innovations.
      >
      > The Chinese haven't yet
      > "taken-their-gloves-off,"
      > but it's a safe assumption
      > and doesn't take a PhD in
      > foreign relations from Georgetown
      > University to understand that
      > when the PRESIDENT or "Primere"
      > of China repeatedly has his picture taken
      > with the high-ranking executives from Motic,
      > and it's all over Chinese media, it's
      > a pretty safe assumption that they consider
      > domination in the microscope industry
      > a national-strategic goal.
      >
      > Rich
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >



      --

      Chris Albertson
      Redondo Beach, California


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Mike Whittome
      My answer was based on what you wrote.   OP No. I think really what has happened is that before in the 1970s when a decent microscope cost half as much as an
      Message 37 of 37 , Mar 27, 2013
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        My answer was based on what you wrote.
         
        OP "No. I think really what has happened is that before in the 1970s when a
        decent microscope cost half as much as an entry level car the market was
        small and only experts bought 'scopes. But now that the price has dropped
        by about a factor of ten in constant dollars. A new scope is affordable to
        anyone so now non-experts are buying them. The AVERAGE knowledge of a
        buyer has gone down a LOT but the are still the same number of experts."

        A comparable new bio scope from the big 4 would run at least $5-10k today depending on the setup. About 1/4 to 1/2 the cost of a new car so the relative price point is not that far off. The price of new scopes is going up every year and is not much cheaper by any means. Take a look at any Leica, Zeiss, Nikon or Olympus mid grade lab scope and you will see. Add phase or any special objectives and the price jumps thousands.
         
        Unfortunately most of the Chinese no name scopes do not have any comparable features at $700. If you look even at the lower cost no make scopes, a mid range quality no name China scope can run $2k so there are not as cheap as one might think unless you get the bottom level educational scopes. The cost you will find is in the engineering, materials used and functionality/performance of the more expensive scope. It is the same cost/quality function as any product you would draw a line of comparison to. You cannot compare a $5k objective to a $700 microscope.
         
        Many local schools in my area, even at the lower grade levels, teach a good program of science with microscopes. I am quite impressed by our local 5-6 grades, private schools, junior colleges etc. As i do service and sales at these locations, I have had a chance to talk to many educators and staff.
         
        Regards,
         
        Mike

        --- On Wed, 3/27/13, Chris Albertson <albertson.chris@...> wrote:


        From: Chris Albertson <albertson.chris@...>
        Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: The Big 4
        To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, March 27, 2013, 11:19 AM



         



        On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Mike Whittome <optekusa@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > No, the price comparisons are not in line with current pricing as you
        > suggest. A major mfg scope complete is $2k+ as a minimum. You are
        > suggesting that 1/10 of 1/2 or 1/20 the cost of an entry level car price.
        > An entry level car today ($15-17K) * 1/20 is about $850 bucks. No mfg,
        > Nikon, Oly, Meiji, leica, Zeiss etc.. has a good scope for that price.
        >
        That is not what I meant.
        I meant that people used to pay 1/2 the price of a car for a standard
        university lab microscope ($1,600 for an AO Series 10 in 1970s vs. $3k for
        a new car) But now compared to a new car a microscope is MUCH cheaper.
        Prices of microscopes have fallen a lot.

        Now if want to talk about Chinese scopes the prices have fallen even more.
        A Chinese scope with comparable features is maybe $700. Here is an example
        that at least has the right list of features
        b690a-pl.html<http://store.amscope.com/b690a-pl.html> Yes
        I'd prefer a 40 year old Zeiss to this but eBay is just not an option for
        most buyers, like schools who need dozens of identical units.

        But it's all moot, schools only need to teach test taking skills now. From
        what I've seen students get about 10 minutes a year of time with a
        microscope.

        --

        Chris Albertson
        Redondo Beach, California

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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