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Re: Diaphot Screws and which model is it ?

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  • John
    Thanks for the links Paul. I ve ordered a set of the probuilds and may order some magadora if they don t work out. It s a pity they don t do some demolition
    Message 1 of 28 , Dec 1, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Thanks for the links Paul. I've ordered a set of the probuilds and may order some magadora if they don't work out. It's a pity they don't do some demolition style versions. These can be hit with a hammer a useful dodge when dealing with seized screws. The shafts simply go straight through the handle. Some will even take a spanner.

      It's interesting to read the wiki on these style of screws. Even mentions why Phillips types cam out

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#JIS_B_1012

      This is how I recognised my screws too. They say a dot but mine have more of a line - hope that doesn't mean Nikon use their own design.

      While on screws it might be worth mentioning another type useful for repairs. In the UK they go by the name trilobal and also thread forming screws. These form standard threads in drilled holes. They work really well providing the correct drill size is used even in steel. They make a thread by deformation rather than cutting and have excellent heads as well - phillips. I've mostly used a bag of 250 I bought over 20 years ago to build a kit car.

      John

      --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Golding" <paul@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Hello John,
      >
      > Unfortunately, I forgot that we have special tax concessions here in
      > Australia. If the total cost is less than $1,000, there is no customs or
      > Goods and Services Tax. Perhaps your best option is to contact Probuild
      > UK and ask them for a firm delivery time.
      >
      >
      >
      > I agree that JDV do not say that the Vessel screwdrivers are JIS. In
      > fact, I cannot find any reference to JIS on the Vessel Japan web site:
      >
      > http://www.vessel.jp/online/pro_h_hand_p021.html
      > <http://www.vessel.jp/online/pro_h_hand_p021.html>
      >
      > http://www.vessel.jp/products/pro_hand.html
      > <http://www.vessel.jp/products/pro_hand.html>
      >
      > The reference to JIS, for Vessel, was on the site of RJR who did not
      > export from USA at the time. Here are links to their relevant pages:
      >
      > http://www.rjrcooltools.com/jis.cfm
      > <http://www.rjrcooltools.com/jis.cfm>
      >
      > http://www.rjrcooltools.com/vessel.cfm
      > <http://www.rjrcooltools.com/vessel.cfm>
      >
      > http://www.rjrcooltools.com/shop_item_detail.cfm?subcat_ID=65
      > <http://www.rjrcooltools.com/shop_item_detail.cfm?subcat_ID=65>
      >
      > The problem is that I also cannot find any reference to the Hozan
      > screwdrivers being JIS, on the Hozan Japan web site either:
      >
      > http://www.hozan.co.jp/english/catalog_e/drivers_wrenches/D-130_155.htm
      > <http://www.hozan.co.jp/english/catalog_e/drivers_wrenches/D-130_155.htm\
      > >
      >
      > We seem to have to rely on the word of the retailers, that these tools
      > are actually made to JIS standard.
      >
      > This problem, of several standards for screwdrivers, has been discussed
      > on several forums:
      >
      > http://forum.concours.org/index.php?topic=53517.0
      > <http://forum.concours.org/index.php?topic=53517.0>
      >
      > http://support.conurus.com/viewtopic.php?t=10
      > <http://support.conurus.com/viewtopic.php?t=10>
      >
      > http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/
      > <http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/>
      >
      > http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48040
      > <http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48040>
      >
      > http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28491&highlight=Sunf\
      > lag&page=3
      > <http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28491&highlight=Sun\
      > flag&page=3>
      >
      > As you can see, we are not the only ones to have struggled with this
      > problem of different standards.
      >
      > Have a good day.
      >
      > Paul
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Mark Papp
      It s official: I m sad and have no life. I found that Wiki link to different screw types interesting.   Thanks John. ... From: John
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 1, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        It's official: I'm sad and have no life. I found that Wiki link to different screw types interesting.
         
        Thanks John.

        --- On Wed, 1/12/10, John <a.johnw@...> wrote:


        From: John <a.johnw@...>
        Subject: [Microscope] Re: Diaphot Screws and which model is it ?
        To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, 1 December, 2010, 9:57


         



        Thanks for the links Paul. I've ordered a set of the probuilds and may order some magadora if they don't work out. It's a pity they don't do some demolition style versions. These can be hit with a hammer a useful dodge when dealing with seized screws. The shafts simply go straight through the handle. Some will even take a spanner.

        It's interesting to read the wiki on these style of screws. Even mentions why Phillips types cam out

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#JIS_B_1012

        This is how I recognised my screws too. They say a dot but mine have more of a line - hope that doesn't mean Nikon use their own design.

        While on screws it might be worth mentioning another type useful for repairs. In the UK they go by the name trilobal and also thread forming screws. These form standard threads in drilled holes. They work really well providing the correct drill size is used even in steel. They make a thread by deformation rather than cutting and have excellent heads as well - phillips. I've mostly used a bag of 250 I bought over 20 years ago to build a kit car.

        John

        --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Golding" <paul@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hello John,
        >
        > Unfortunately, I forgot that we have special tax concessions here in
        > Australia. If the total cost is less than $1,000, there is no customs or
        > Goods and Services Tax. Perhaps your best option is to contact Probuild
        > UK and ask them for a firm delivery time.
        >
        >
        >
        > I agree that JDV do not say that the Vessel screwdrivers are JIS. In
        > fact, I cannot find any reference to JIS on the Vessel Japan web site:
        >
        > http://www.vessel.jp/online/pro_h_hand_p021.html
        > <http://www.vessel.jp/online/pro_h_hand_p021.html>
        >
        > http://www.vessel.jp/products/pro_hand.html
        > <http://www.vessel.jp/products/pro_hand.html>
        >
        > The reference to JIS, for Vessel, was on the site of RJR who did not
        > export from USA at the time. Here are links to their relevant pages:
        >
        > http://www.rjrcooltools.com/jis.cfm
        > <http://www.rjrcooltools.com/jis.cfm>
        >
        > http://www.rjrcooltools.com/vessel.cfm
        > <http://www.rjrcooltools.com/vessel.cfm>
        >
        > http://www.rjrcooltools.com/shop_item_detail.cfm?subcat_ID=65
        > <http://www.rjrcooltools.com/shop_item_detail.cfm?subcat_ID=65>
        >
        > The problem is that I also cannot find any reference to the Hozan
        > screwdrivers being JIS, on the Hozan Japan web site either:
        >
        > http://www.hozan.co.jp/english/catalog_e/drivers_wrenches/D-130_155.htm
        > <http://www.hozan.co.jp/english/catalog_e/drivers_wrenches/D-130_155.htm\
        > >
        >
        > We seem to have to rely on the word of the retailers, that these tools
        > are actually made to JIS standard.
        >
        > This problem, of several standards for screwdrivers, has been discussed
        > on several forums:
        >
        > http://forum.concours.org/index.php?topic=53517.0
        > <http://forum.concours.org/index.php?topic=53517.0>
        >
        > http://support.conurus.com/viewtopic.php?t=10
        > <http://support.conurus.com/viewtopic.php?t=10>
        >
        > http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/
        > <http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/>
        >
        > http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48040
        > <http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48040>
        >
        > http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28491&highlight=Sunf\
        > lag&page=3
        > <http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28491&highlight=Sun\
        > flag&page=3>
        >
        > As you can see, we are not the only ones to have struggled with this
        > problem of different standards.
        >
        > Have a good day.
        >
        > Paul
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >











        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John
        More so with me Mark. I completely reroofed our conservatory using those Canadian screws they mention with a shallow hex socket. Screwfix did them for a while.
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 1, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          More so with me Mark. I completely reroofed our conservatory using those Canadian screws they mention with a shallow hex socket. Screwfix did them for a while. Wonderful things. Cheap simple bits that work and they stay put on them too. I miss them and by choice would use nothing else.

          A couple of useful UK links while looking for screwdrivers

          Drills etc
          http://www.drill-service.co.uk/

          Propa Tools - including screw starters - must get one
          http://www.gibbtools.co.uk/Pages/Reliability.html

          John

          --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, Mark Papp <markspapp@...> wrote:
          >
          > It's official: I'm sad and have no life. I found that Wiki link to different screw types interesting.
          >
          > Thanks John.
          >
          > --- On Wed, 1/12/10, John <a.johnw@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: John <a.johnw@...>
          > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Diaphot Screws and which model is it ?
          > To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Wednesday, 1 December, 2010, 9:57
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Thanks for the links Paul. I've ordered a set of the probuilds and may order some magadora if they don't work out. It's a pity they don't do some demolition style versions. These can be hit with a hammer a useful dodge when dealing with seized screws. The shafts simply go straight through the handle. Some will even take a spanner.
          >
          > It's interesting to read the wiki on these style of screws. Even mentions why Phillips types cam out
          >
          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#JIS_B_1012
          >
          > This is how I recognised my screws too. They say a dot but mine have more of a line - hope that doesn't mean Nikon use their own design.
          >
          > While on screws it might be worth mentioning another type useful for repairs. In the UK they go by the name trilobal and also thread forming screws. These form standard threads in drilled holes. They work really well providing the correct drill size is used even in steel. They make a thread by deformation rather than cutting and have excellent heads as well - phillips. I've mostly used a bag of 250 I bought over 20 years ago to build a kit car.
          >
          > John
          >
          > --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Golding" <paul@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Hello John,
          > >
          > > Unfortunately, I forgot that we have special tax concessions here in
          > > Australia. If the total cost is less than $1,000, there is no customs or
          > > Goods and Services Tax. Perhaps your best option is to contact Probuild
          > > UK and ask them for a firm delivery time.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > I agree that JDV do not say that the Vessel screwdrivers are JIS. In
          > > fact, I cannot find any reference to JIS on the Vessel Japan web site:
          > >
          > > http://www.vessel.jp/online/pro_h_hand_p021.html
          > > <http://www.vessel.jp/online/pro_h_hand_p021.html>
          > >
          > > http://www.vessel.jp/products/pro_hand.html
          > > <http://www.vessel.jp/products/pro_hand.html>
          > >
          > > The reference to JIS, for Vessel, was on the site of RJR who did not
          > > export from USA at the time. Here are links to their relevant pages:
          > >
          > > http://www.rjrcooltools.com/jis.cfm
          > > <http://www.rjrcooltools.com/jis.cfm>
          > >
          > > http://www.rjrcooltools.com/vessel.cfm
          > > <http://www.rjrcooltools.com/vessel.cfm>
          > >
          > > http://www.rjrcooltools.com/shop_item_detail.cfm?subcat_ID=65
          > > <http://www.rjrcooltools.com/shop_item_detail.cfm?subcat_ID=65>
          > >
          > > The problem is that I also cannot find any reference to the Hozan
          > > screwdrivers being JIS, on the Hozan Japan web site either:
          > >
          > > http://www.hozan.co.jp/english/catalog_e/drivers_wrenches/D-130_155.htm
          > > <http://www.hozan.co.jp/english/catalog_e/drivers_wrenches/D-130_155.htm\
          > > >
          > >
          > > We seem to have to rely on the word of the retailers, that these tools
          > > are actually made to JIS standard.
          > >
          > > This problem, of several standards for screwdrivers, has been discussed
          > > on several forums:
          > >
          > > http://forum.concours.org/index.php?topic=53517.0
          > > <http://forum.concours.org/index.php?topic=53517.0>
          > >
          > > http://support.conurus.com/viewtopic.php?t=10
          > > <http://support.conurus.com/viewtopic.php?t=10>
          > >
          > > http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/
          > > <http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/>
          > >
          > > http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48040
          > > <http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48040>
          > >
          > > http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28491&highlight=Sunf\
          > > lag&page=3
          > > <http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28491&highlight=Sun\
          > > flag&page=3>
          > >
          > > As you can see, we are not the only ones to have struggled with this
          > > problem of different standards.
          > >
          > > Have a good day.
          > >
          > > Paul
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • gc_couger
          John, If you only need a single screw driver often a group member can help you out. I don t think many of us want to go in the tool export business but many of
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 1, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            John,

            If you only need a single screw driver often a group member can help you out. I don't think many of us want to go in the tool export business but many of us have help others with many international problems that are easy to solve one on one and hard to solve though channels. Usually because the volume of one isn't work the effort to a dealer but really valuable to the one that needs it.

            I have had mixed luck with Phillips head screws. As long as the driver fits the screw, no one has damaged the screw and the the screw is not stuck too tight and there is nothing in the way to keep me from getting good purchase on the screw they come out just fine almost all the the time. I do miss the days when a case of beer and trip down the road to Page Aircraft would get someone to dill out a screw after hours with their EDM machine if I could wait until they were though making knives and doing their own lunch pail work.

            I try to use hex or Allen head screws everywhere I can if using them doesn't detract from the value of what I am working on too much. If I am going to use it myself I usually oil the original screw/screws, wrap them in paper and and secure them inside the microscope with twine or wire so they will still be in the best shape them when it comes time for me, my son or widow to sell it.

            For straight screw drivers buying old beat up ones made of good steel at swap meets and dressing the blades on a water cooled grinder that will hollow grind the edge so they are better than most new one you get works well or me. Also taking a day to make bits from 1/4 and 1/8 inch hex stock or its Metric equivalent to fit screwdrivers with interchangeable bits is time well spent for the screw with wide narrow slots. Fitting the screw drivers or getting one that fit to the instrument you are working on before you start will save you from ruining screws by trying to use a tool that almost fits instead of using one that does.

            While on screws.

            While they have no place on a microscope there is hard steel screw in the form of a wood screw with a fast flight called a drywall, particle board or deck screw that in addition to flat and Phillips head have slightly tapered square socket designed for driving with high speed air or electric tool. It is the fist screw head I have ever used that wasn't distorted the first time a power screw driver slipped. The steel is a good deal harder than most screws and the if the tool slips in the square socket it comes up and out leaving the corners of the lower part of the socket intact.

            The one great thing about standards is everyone can have one. I find it comical that the only standard that had much investigation behind it was tossed in the trash bin of history by all concerned. The 55 degree angle of Whitworth treads is stronger than the 60 Degree ASE, ASAE and ISO standards used world round. Even though one can mate ASE, ASAE and ISO 60 degree threads with 55 degree Whitworth treads. Whitworth's use of rounded roots in the tread that make it necessary to either make a symmetrical rounded crests or dub off the pointy crest on ISO, ASE and ASAE, ISO thread to keep them from interfering with the Whitworth thread root. If you doubt the wisdom of using 55 degree Whitworth treads consider all the German Mausers sporting barrels made with 60 degree treads that have their tops knocked off with a file.

            Gordon

            --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "John" <a.johnw@...> wrote:
            >
            > More so with me Mark. I completely reroofed our conservatory using those Canadian screws they mention with a shallow hex socket. Screwfix did them for a while. Wonderful things. Cheap simple bits that work and they stay put on them too. I miss them and by choice would use nothing else.
            >
            > A couple of useful UK links while looking for screwdrivers
            >
            > Drills etc
            > http://www.drill-service.co.uk/
            >
            > Propa Tools - including screw starters - must get one
            > http://www.gibbtools.co.uk/Pages/Reliability.html
            >
            > John
            >
            > --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, Mark Papp <markspapp@> wrote:
            > >
            > > It's official: I'm sad and have no life. I found that Wiki link to different screw types interesting.
            > >
            > > Thanks John.
            > >
            > > --- On Wed, 1/12/10, John <a.johnw@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > From: John <a.johnw@>
            > > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Diaphot Screws and which model is it ?
            > > To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
            > > Date: Wednesday, 1 December, 2010, 9:57
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Thanks for the links Paul. I've ordered a set of the probuilds and may order some magadora if they don't work out. It's a pity they don't do some demolition style versions. These can be hit with a hammer a useful dodge when dealing with seized screws. The shafts simply go straight through the handle. Some will even take a spanner.
            > >
            > > It's interesting to read the wiki on these style of screws. Even mentions why Phillips types cam out
            > >
            > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#JIS_B_1012
            > >
            > > This is how I recognised my screws too. They say a dot but mine have more of a line - hope that doesn't mean Nikon use their own design.
            > >
            > > While on screws it might be worth mentioning another type useful for repairs. In the UK they go by the name trilobal and also thread forming screws. These form standard threads in drilled holes. They work really well providing the correct drill size is used even in steel. They make a thread by deformation rather than cutting and have excellent heads as well - phillips. I've mostly used a bag of 250 I bought over 20 years ago to build a kit car.
            > >
            > > John
            > >
            > > --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Golding" <paul@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Hello John,
            > > >
            > > > Unfortunately, I forgot that we have special tax concessions here in
            > > > Australia. If the total cost is less than $1,000, there is no customs or
            > > > Goods and Services Tax. Perhaps your best option is to contact Probuild
            > > > UK and ask them for a firm delivery time.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > I agree that JDV do not say that the Vessel screwdrivers are JIS. In
            > > > fact, I cannot find any reference to JIS on the Vessel Japan web site:
            > > >
            > > > http://www.vessel.jp/online/pro_h_hand_p021.html
            > > > <http://www.vessel.jp/online/pro_h_hand_p021.html>
            > > >
            > > > http://www.vessel.jp/products/pro_hand.html
            > > > <http://www.vessel.jp/products/pro_hand.html>
            > > >
            > > > The reference to JIS, for Vessel, was on the site of RJR who did not
            > > > export from USA at the time. Here are links to their relevant pages:
            > > >
            > > > http://www.rjrcooltools.com/jis.cfm
            > > > <http://www.rjrcooltools.com/jis.cfm>
            > > >
            > > > http://www.rjrcooltools.com/vessel.cfm
            > > > <http://www.rjrcooltools.com/vessel.cfm>
            > > >
            > > > http://www.rjrcooltools.com/shop_item_detail.cfm?subcat_ID=65
            > > > <http://www.rjrcooltools.com/shop_item_detail.cfm?subcat_ID=65>
            > > >
            > > > The problem is that I also cannot find any reference to the Hozan
            > > > screwdrivers being JIS, on the Hozan Japan web site either:
            > > >
            > > > http://www.hozan.co.jp/english/catalog_e/drivers_wrenches/D-130_155.htm
            > > > <http://www.hozan.co.jp/english/catalog_e/drivers_wrenches/D-130_155.htm\
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > > We seem to have to rely on the word of the retailers, that these tools
            > > > are actually made to JIS standard.
            > > >
            > > > This problem, of several standards for screwdrivers, has been discussed
            > > > on several forums:
            > > >
            > > > http://forum.concours.org/index.php?topic=53517.0
            > > > <http://forum.concours.org/index.php?topic=53517.0>
            > > >
            > > > http://support.conurus.com/viewtopic.php?t=10
            > > > <http://support.conurus.com/viewtopic.php?t=10>
            > > >
            > > > http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/
            > > > <http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/>
            > > >
            > > > http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48040
            > > > <http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48040>
            > > >
            > > > http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28491&highlight=Sunf\
            > > > lag&page=3
            > > > <http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28491&highlight=Sun\
            > > > flag&page=3>
            > > >
            > > > As you can see, we are not the only ones to have struggled with this
            > > > problem of different standards.
            > > >
            > > > Have a good day.
            > > >
            > > > Paul
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
          • Paul Golding
            Hello John, Vessel does make a range of Tang-Thru drivers in their Megadora range. These would be suitable for your demolition work, as the shaft runs right
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 2, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello John,

              Vessel does make a range of "Tang-Thru" drivers in their Megadora range.
              These would be suitable for your demolition work, as the shaft runs
              right through the handle, and are intended to be hit by a hammer.

              Here is a link to the relevant page:
              http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/megadora/930-series/f\
              lypage.tpl.html
              <http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/megadora/930-series/\
              flypage.tpl.html>

              Another manufacturer of JIS screwdrivers is SunFlag:
              http://www.sunflag.co.jp/products/product.php?gr1=1&gr2=1&img=666&title=\
              ƒnƒCƒ\ƒtƒgƒhƒ‰ƒCƒo
              <http://www.sunflag.co.jp/products/product.php?gr1=1&gr2=1&img=666&title\
              =ƒnƒCƒ\ƒtƒgƒhƒ‰ƒCƒo> [

              If you look very closely at the top right of their page, you can see
              that they say that their drivers are made to JIS standards. This is the
              only manufacturer who I know of that makes this claim.

              Their screwdrivers also have the shaft running right through the handle.

              I limited range of their tools are available in Australia, but I have
              not checked for USA or UK.

              Have a good day.

              Paul



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Fred
              There is a tool made to be struck with a hammer. Striking causes bit to rotate helping to remove screw. Not sure what they are called. Fred From: Paul Golding
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 2, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                There is a tool made to be struck with a hammer. Striking causes bit to rotate helping to remove screw.
                Not sure what they are called.
                Fred

                From: Paul Golding
                Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 6:29 AM
                To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Microscope] Re: Diaphot Screws and which model is it ?



                Hello John,

                Vessel does make a range of "Tang-Thru" drivers in their Megadora range.
                These would be suitable for your demolition work, as the shaft runs
                right through the handle, and are intended to be hit by a hammer.

                Here is a link to the relevant page:
                http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/megadora/930-series/f\
                lypage.tpl.html
                <http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/megadora/930-series/\
                flypage.tpl.html>

                Another manufacturer of JIS screwdrivers is SunFlag:
                http://www.sunflag.co.jp/products/product.php?gr1=1&gr2=1&img=666&title=\
                ƒnƒCƒ\ƒtƒgƒhƒ‰ƒCƒo
                <http://www.sunflag.co.jp/products/product.php?gr1=1&gr2=1&img=666&title\
                =ƒnƒCƒ\ƒtƒgƒhƒ‰ƒCƒo> [

                If you look very closely at the top right of their page, you can see
                that they say that their drivers are made to JIS standards. This is the
                only manufacturer who I know of that makes this claim.

                Their screwdrivers also have the shaft running right through the handle.

                I limited range of their tools are available in Australia, but I have
                not checked for USA or UK.

                Have a good day.

                Paul

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Tim Phillips
                from Tim P (UK) I think they are called impact drivers - I once used one to remove some rusted screws from a garden gate. Wouldn t like to try the same trick
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 2, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  from Tim P (UK)
                  I think they are called 'impact drivers' - I once used one
                  to remove some rusted screws from a garden gate.
                  Wouldn't like to try the same trick on a microscope tho' <grin>
                  Tim



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • John
                  Thanks for the comments and links again. We can get decent screw drivers in the UK fairly cheaply Gordon off CK for instance. There are others as well. The
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 2, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks for the comments and links again.

                    We can get decent screw drivers in the UK fairly cheaply Gordon off CK for instance. There are others as well. The only problem is a true JIS tip. I can't wait to get the set I've ordered to see if it makes much difference. I get the impression from the screws on the Diaphot that the sizes differ from Philips not just the radii as mentioned in the wiki. That would explain the one that is nearly completely chewed out.

                    The hammer and undo are impact drivers. Don't think they go down to instrument size and ;-) personally I've only use them with a 10lb lump hammer. There are also the spiral drive types used in woodwork where pressure either inserts or removes a screw. These can be whacked a little more gently. All small screws should need is a sharp firm tap but another alternative where they are seized is to actually tighten them up a little more. Sometimes works sometimes doesn't.

                    Gordon tempts me to mention threads. In many ways he is correct.Also the metric system is a mess from the same point of view and also on thread pitches much like the UK's BA. ANC and ANF make a much better job of that aspect but BA is probably supreme on strength hence the strange pitches used on them.

                    John

                    --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <bgrass2@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > There is a tool made to be struck with a hammer. Striking causes bit to rotate helping to remove screw.
                    > Not sure what they are called.
                    > Fred
                    >
                    > From: Paul Golding
                    > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 6:29 AM
                    > To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Diaphot Screws and which model is it ?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Hello John,
                    >
                    > Vessel does make a range of "Tang-Thru" drivers in their Megadora range.
                    > These would be suitable for your demolition work, as the shaft runs
                    > right through the handle, and are intended to be hit by a hammer.
                    >
                    > Here is a link to the relevant page:
                    > http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/megadora/930-series/f\
                    > lypage.tpl.html
                    > <http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/megadora/930-series/\
                    > flypage.tpl.html>
                    >
                    > Another manufacturer of JIS screwdrivers is SunFlag:
                    > http://www.sunflag.co.jp/products/product.php?gr1=1&gr2=1&img=666&title=\
                    > ƒnƒCƒ\ƒtƒgƒhƒ‰ƒCƒo
                    > <http://www.sunflag.co.jp/products/product.php?gr1=1&gr2=1&img=666&title\
                    > =ƒnƒCƒ\ƒtƒgƒhƒ‰ƒCƒo> [
                    >
                    > If you look very closely at the top right of their page, you can see
                    > that they say that their drivers are made to JIS standards. This is the
                    > only manufacturer who I know of that makes this claim.
                    >
                    > Their screwdrivers also have the shaft running right through the handle.
                    >
                    > I limited range of their tools are available in Australia, but I have
                    > not checked for USA or UK.
                    >
                    > Have a good day.
                    >
                    > Paul
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • John
                    The FastLad Hozan screwdrivers arrived today. They do look to be good quality. I attacked the shaft of one briefly with a file and all it has done is scratched
                    Message 9 of 28 , Dec 4, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      The FastLad Hozan screwdrivers arrived today. They do look to be good quality. I attacked the shaft of one briefly with a file and all it has done is scratched it suggesting that they are sensibly hard.

                      John

                      --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "John" <a.johnw@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Thanks for the comments and links again.
                      >
                      > We can get decent screw drivers in the UK fairly cheaply Gordon off CK for instance. There are others as well. The only problem is a true JIS tip. I can't wait to get the set I've ordered to see if it makes much difference. I get the impression from the screws on the Diaphot that the sizes differ from Philips not just the radii as mentioned in the wiki. That would explain the one that is nearly completely chewed out.
                      >
                      > The hammer and undo are impact drivers. Don't think they go down to instrument size and ;-) personally I've only use them with a 10lb lump hammer. There are also the spiral drive types used in woodwork where pressure either inserts or removes a screw. These can be whacked a little more gently. All small screws should need is a sharp firm tap but another alternative where they are seized is to actually tighten them up a little more. Sometimes works sometimes doesn't.
                      >
                      > Gordon tempts me to mention threads. In many ways he is correct.Also the metric system is a mess from the same point of view and also on thread pitches much like the UK's BA. ANC and ANF make a much better job of that aspect but BA is probably supreme on strength hence the strange pitches used on them.
                      >
                      > John
                      >
                      > --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <bgrass2@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > There is a tool made to be struck with a hammer. Striking causes bit to rotate helping to remove screw.
                      > > Not sure what they are called.
                      > > Fred
                      > >
                      > > From: Paul Golding
                      > > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 6:29 AM
                      > > To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Diaphot Screws and which model is it ?
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hello John,
                      > >
                      > > Vessel does make a range of "Tang-Thru" drivers in their Megadora range.
                      > > These would be suitable for your demolition work, as the shaft runs
                      > > right through the handle, and are intended to be hit by a hammer.
                      > >
                      > > Here is a link to the relevant page:
                      > > http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/megadora/930-series/f\
                      > > lypage.tpl.html
                      > > <http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/megadora/930-series/\
                      > > flypage.tpl.html>
                      > >
                      > > Another manufacturer of JIS screwdrivers is SunFlag:
                      > > http://www.sunflag.co.jp/products/product.php?gr1=1&gr2=1&img=666&title=\
                      > > ƒnƒCƒ\ƒtƒgƒhƒ‰ƒCƒo
                      > > <http://www.sunflag.co.jp/products/product.php?gr1=1&gr2=1&img=666&title\
                      > > =ƒnƒCƒ\ƒtƒgƒhƒ‰ƒCƒo> [
                      > >
                      > > If you look very closely at the top right of their page, you can see
                      > > that they say that their drivers are made to JIS standards. This is the
                      > > only manufacturer who I know of that makes this claim.
                      > >
                      > > Their screwdrivers also have the shaft running right through the handle.
                      > >
                      > > I limited range of their tools are available in Australia, but I have
                      > > not checked for USA or UK.
                      > >
                      > > Have a good day.
                      > >
                      > > Paul
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                    • John
                      Maybe I need to get a life. Here s a photo of No2 JIS and CK screwdriver tips.
                      Message 10 of 28 , Dec 5, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Maybe I need to get a life. Here's a photo of No2 JIS and CK screwdriver tips.

                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Microscope/photos/album/266762016/pic/606056791/view

                        It's hard to see any difference but visually they do have slightly different geometries but there is next to nothing in it. Hozan list theirs as a Phillip's type with a reduced dia shank. Curiously that smaller shank is needed in places on a Diaphot plus who would use a No2 to undo 3mms screws. For some reason they fit the screws significantly better than a CK driver. It only needs tiny changes of angles and thicknesses to achieve that.

                        ;-) I took the opportunity to try out my MBS 9 Russian stereo scope of ebay uk with a microscope camera. Need to make an adapter but the results aren't too bad. The optics on these scopes are easily up to Meiji standards.

                        John

                        --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "John" <a.johnw@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > The FastLad Hozan screwdrivers arrived today. They do look to be good quality. I attacked the shaft of one briefly with a file and all it has done is scratched it suggesting that they are sensibly hard.
                        >
                        > John
                        >
                        > --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "John" <a.johnw@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for the comments and links again.
                        > >
                        > > We can get decent screw drivers in the UK fairly cheaply Gordon off CK for instance. There are others as well. The only problem is a true JIS tip. I can't wait to get the set I've ordered to see if it makes much difference. I get the impression from the screws on the Diaphot that the sizes differ from Philips not just the radii as mentioned in the wiki. That would explain the one that is nearly completely chewed out.
                        > >
                        > > The hammer and undo are impact drivers. Don't think they go down to instrument size and ;-) personally I've only use them with a 10lb lump hammer. There are also the spiral drive types used in woodwork where pressure either inserts or removes a screw. These can be whacked a little more gently. All small screws should need is a sharp firm tap but another alternative where they are seized is to actually tighten them up a little more. Sometimes works sometimes doesn't.
                        > >
                        > > Gordon tempts me to mention threads. In many ways he is correct.Also the metric system is a mess from the same point of view and also on thread pitches much like the UK's BA. ANC and ANF make a much better job of that aspect but BA is probably supreme on strength hence the strange pitches used on them.
                        > >
                        > > John
                        > >
                        > > --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <bgrass2@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > There is a tool made to be struck with a hammer. Striking causes bit to rotate helping to remove screw.
                        > > > Not sure what they are called.
                        > > > Fred
                        > > >
                        > > > From: Paul Golding
                        > > > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 6:29 AM
                        > > > To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Diaphot Screws and which model is it ?
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Hello John,
                        > > >
                        > > > Vessel does make a range of "Tang-Thru" drivers in their Megadora range.
                        > > > These would be suitable for your demolition work, as the shaft runs
                        > > > right through the handle, and are intended to be hit by a hammer.
                        > > >
                        > > > Here is a link to the relevant page:
                        > > > http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/megadora/930-series/f\
                        > > > lypage.tpl.html
                        > > > <http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/megadora/930-series/\
                        > > > flypage.tpl.html>
                        > > >
                        > > > Another manufacturer of JIS screwdrivers is SunFlag:
                        > > > http://www.sunflag.co.jp/products/product.php?gr1=1&gr2=1&img=666&title=\
                        > > > ƒnƒCƒ\ƒtƒgƒhƒ‰ƒCƒo
                        > > > <http://www.sunflag.co.jp/products/product.php?gr1=1&gr2=1&img=666&title\
                        > > > =ƒnƒCƒ\ƒtƒgƒhƒ‰ƒCƒo> [
                        > > >
                        > > > If you look very closely at the top right of their page, you can see
                        > > > that they say that their drivers are made to JIS standards. This is the
                        > > > only manufacturer who I know of that makes this claim.
                        > > >
                        > > > Their screwdrivers also have the shaft running right through the handle.
                        > > >
                        > > > I limited range of their tools are available in Australia, but I have
                        > > > not checked for USA or UK.
                        > > >
                        > > > Have a good day.
                        > > >
                        > > > Paul
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Fred
                        Aside from the CK being shinier ( ;) ), it looked like the geometry in the crevice might be different. What do they look like in cross section? Let me know
                        Message 11 of 28 , Dec 5, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Aside from the CK being shinier ( ;) ), it looked like the geometry in the crevice might be different. What do they look like in cross section?

                          Let me know what's entailed in getting a life.

                          Fred

                          --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "John" <a.johnw@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Maybe I need to get a life. Here's a photo of No2 JIS and CK screwdriver tips.
                          >
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Microscope/photos/album/266762016/pic/606056791/view
                          >
                          > It's hard to see any difference but visually they do have slightly different geometries but there is next to nothing in it. Hozan list theirs as a Phillip's type with a reduced dia shank. Curiously that smaller shank is needed in places on a Diaphot plus who would use a No2 to undo 3mms screws. For some reason they fit the screws significantly better than a CK driver. It only needs tiny changes of angles and thicknesses to achieve that.
                          >
                          > ;-) I took the opportunity to try out my MBS 9 Russian stereo scope of ebay uk with a microscope camera. Need to make an adapter but the results aren't too bad. The optics on these scopes are easily up to Meiji standards.
                          >
                          > John
                          >
                          > --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "John" <a.johnw@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > The FastLad Hozan screwdrivers arrived today. They do look to be good quality. I attacked the shaft of one briefly with a file and all it has done is scratched it suggesting that they are sensibly hard.
                          > >
                          > > John
                          > >
                          > > --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "John" <a.johnw@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks for the comments and links again.
                          > > >
                          > > > We can get decent screw drivers in the UK fairly cheaply Gordon off CK for instance. There are others as well. The only problem is a true JIS tip. I can't wait to get the set I've ordered to see if it makes much difference. I get the impression from the screws on the Diaphot that the sizes differ from Philips not just the radii as mentioned in the wiki. That would explain the one that is nearly completely chewed out.
                          > > >
                          > > > The hammer and undo are impact drivers. Don't think they go down to instrument size and ;-) personally I've only use them with a 10lb lump hammer. There are also the spiral drive types used in woodwork where pressure either inserts or removes a screw. These can be whacked a little more gently. All small screws should need is a sharp firm tap but another alternative where they are seized is to actually tighten them up a little more. Sometimes works sometimes doesn't.
                          > > >
                          > > > Gordon tempts me to mention threads. In many ways he is correct.Also the metric system is a mess from the same point of view and also on thread pitches much like the UK's BA. ANC and ANF make a much better job of that aspect but BA is probably supreme on strength hence the strange pitches used on them.
                          > > >
                          > > > John
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <bgrass2@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > There is a tool made to be struck with a hammer. Striking causes bit to rotate helping to remove screw.
                          > > > > Not sure what they are called.
                          > > > > Fred
                          > > > >
                          > > > > From: Paul Golding
                          > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 6:29 AM
                          > > > > To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Diaphot Screws and which model is it ?
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Hello John,
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Vessel does make a range of "Tang-Thru" drivers in their Megadora range.
                          > > > > These would be suitable for your demolition work, as the shaft runs
                          > > > > right through the handle, and are intended to be hit by a hammer.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Here is a link to the relevant page:
                          > > > > http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/megadora/930-series/f\
                          > > > > lypage.tpl.html
                          > > > > <http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/megadora/930-series/\
                          > > > > flypage.tpl.html>
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Another manufacturer of JIS screwdrivers is SunFlag:
                          > > > > http://www.sunflag.co.jp/products/product.php?gr1=1&gr2=1&img=666&title=\
                          > > > > ƒnƒCƒ\ƒtƒgƒhƒ‰ƒCƒo
                          > > > > <http://www.sunflag.co.jp/products/product.php?gr1=1&gr2=1&img=666&title\
                          > > > > =ƒnƒCƒ\ƒtƒgƒhƒ‰ƒCƒo> [
                          > > > >
                          > > > > If you look very closely at the top right of their page, you can see
                          > > > > that they say that their drivers are made to JIS standards. This is the
                          > > > > only manufacturer who I know of that makes this claim.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Their screwdrivers also have the shaft running right through the handle.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I limited range of their tools are available in Australia, but I have
                          > > > > not checked for USA or UK.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Have a good day.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Paul
                          > > > >
                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • John
                          Hi Fred. Looking with a 10x eyepiece the side of the tangs have a slightly more obtuse angle than the CK and they also look to be very slightly thicker. The
                          Message 12 of 28 , Dec 6, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Fred. Looking with a 10x eyepiece the side of the tangs have a slightly more obtuse angle than the CK and they also look to be very slightly thicker. The cone angle is the same. One things for certain it gripped 4 worrying screws with ease. These held a small box that sits under the turret that takes the epi mirror and filters and they have to be reached through holes that just accept the JIS N02. They will only take a Phillip's N01. I had tried with that but could feel that it would slip. I suspect that's how one of the binocular head screws was messed up. The LH drill removed that one with ease hardly damaging it further. The same screw is used in several places so finding a replacement is easy as some can't be seen.

                            John

                            --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <Fred@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Aside from the CK being shinier ( ;) ), it looked like the geometry in the crevice might be different. What do they look like in cross section?
                            >
                            > Let me know what's entailed in getting a life.
                            >
                            > Fred
                            >
                            > --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "John" <a.johnw@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Maybe I need to get a life. Here's a photo of No2 JIS and CK screwdriver tips.
                            > >
                            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Microscope/photos/album/266762016/pic/606056791/view
                            > >
                            > > It's hard to see any difference but visually they do have slightly different geometries but there is next to nothing in it. Hozan list theirs as a Phillip's type with a reduced dia shank. Curiously that smaller shank is needed in places on a Diaphot plus who would use a No2 to undo 3mms screws. For some reason they fit the screws significantly better than a CK driver. It only needs tiny changes of angles and thicknesses to achieve that.
                            > >
                            > > ;-) I took the opportunity to try out my MBS 9 Russian stereo scope of ebay uk with a microscope camera. Need to make an adapter but the results aren't too bad. The optics on these scopes are easily up to Meiji standards.
                            > >
                            > > John
                            > >
                            > > --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "John" <a.johnw@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > The FastLad Hozan screwdrivers arrived today. They do look to be good quality. I attacked the shaft of one briefly with a file and all it has done is scratched it suggesting that they are sensibly hard.
                            > > >
                            > > > John
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "John" <a.johnw@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Thanks for the comments and links again.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > We can get decent screw drivers in the UK fairly cheaply Gordon off CK for instance. There are others as well. The only problem is a true JIS tip. I can't wait to get the set I've ordered to see if it makes much difference. I get the impression from the screws on the Diaphot that the sizes differ from Philips not just the radii as mentioned in the wiki. That would explain the one that is nearly completely chewed out.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > The hammer and undo are impact drivers. Don't think they go down to instrument size and ;-) personally I've only use them with a 10lb lump hammer. There are also the spiral drive types used in woodwork where pressure either inserts or removes a screw. These can be whacked a little more gently. All small screws should need is a sharp firm tap but another alternative where they are seized is to actually tighten them up a little more. Sometimes works sometimes doesn't.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Gordon tempts me to mention threads. In many ways he is correct.Also the metric system is a mess from the same point of view and also on thread pitches much like the UK's BA. ANC and ANF make a much better job of that aspect but BA is probably supreme on strength hence the strange pitches used on them.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > John
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <bgrass2@> wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > There is a tool made to be struck with a hammer. Striking causes bit to rotate helping to remove screw.
                            > > > > > Not sure what they are called.
                            > > > > > Fred
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > From: Paul Golding
                            > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 6:29 AM
                            > > > > > To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Diaphot Screws and which model is it ?
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Hello John,
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Vessel does make a range of "Tang-Thru" drivers in their Megadora range.
                            > > > > > These would be suitable for your demolition work, as the shaft runs
                            > > > > > right through the handle, and are intended to be hit by a hammer.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Here is a link to the relevant page:
                            > > > > > http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/megadora/930-series/f\
                            > > > > > lypage.tpl.html
                            > > > > > <http://www.vesseltools.com/hand-tools/screwdrivers/megadora/930-series/\
                            > > > > > flypage.tpl.html>
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Another manufacturer of JIS screwdrivers is SunFlag:
                            > > > > > http://www.sunflag.co.jp/products/product.php?gr1=1&gr2=1&img=666&title=\
                            > > > > > ƒnƒCƒ\ƒtƒgƒhƒ‰ƒCƒo
                            > > > > > <http://www.sunflag.co.jp/products/product.php?gr1=1&gr2=1&img=666&title\
                            > > > > > =ƒnƒCƒ\ƒtƒgƒhƒ‰ƒCƒo> [
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > If you look very closely at the top right of their page, you can see
                            > > > > > that they say that their drivers are made to JIS standards. This is the
                            > > > > > only manufacturer who I know of that makes this claim.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Their screwdrivers also have the shaft running right through the handle.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I limited range of their tools are available in Australia, but I have
                            > > > > > not checked for USA or UK.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Have a good day.
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Paul
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
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