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Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!

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  • John
    Hi Bill. It would be interesting to see what the mylar looks like between crossed polaroids and maybe on it s own through phase and phase plus polaroids too.
    Message 1 of 20 , Oct 1 2:44 AM
      Hi Bill. It would be interesting to see what the mylar looks like between crossed polaroids and maybe on it's own through phase and phase plus polaroids too. Suspect you have stress patterns in the mylar. Crossed polaroids will show stress variations in many things. Could just be variations in ri of course.

      John

      --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, William Mark <wamman219@...> wrote:
      >
      > All,
      >
      > I have posted additional photos of the same firld with the various techniques.  Please have a look.  Thay are in the same folder.  They consist of a phase image then a PLM image, PLM and phase, PLM + Phase + Mylar 1, PLM + Phase + Mylar 2, PLM + Phase + Mylar 3, and PLM with mylar (no phase).  Opinions and comment please.
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      > Bill
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: William Mark <wamman219@...>
      > To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 1:30:31 PM
      > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
      >
      >  
      > Rene and Don,
      >
      > Thanks for your comments.  Please take a look at the photos if you can.  I also have inserted a mylar sheet in the optical path between the polarizer and sample.  This produces quite a different image than without the mylar.  Maybe I should also post photos of plain cross polars, phase and cross polars to compare with these. I am confident that this is functioning as a retardation plate.  Gives interesting images, I am not sure how useful (if at all) it is in general.  Any thoughts?
      >
      > Bill
      >
      > ____________ _________ _________ __
      > From: DonH <djhmis@yahoo. com>
      > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:58:27 AM
      > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
      >
      >  
      >
      > Hi,
      >
      > In the workplace, due to established methods, we regularly combine polarized light with Zernicke-type phase contrast. I find it annoying, especially when I am trying to look for the Becke lines and for positive or negative relief at the edges of the material. When I want to get a clear look at the sample in polarized light for my own satisfaction, I rotate out the phase condenser stop. Of course, the phase objective still has a ring in it, which interferes with the image somewhat.
      >
      > Best,
      > Don
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • William Mark
      Don, You make a very good point about the Mylar interference.  On the scope I have been experimenting with, I don t have the ability to insert a 1/4 lamda or
      Message 2 of 20 , Oct 1 4:11 AM
        Don,

        You make a very good point about the Mylar interference.  On the scope I have been experimenting with, I don't have the ability to insert a 1/4 lamda or rot filter, so I used the Mylar.  I guess my interest are two fold; utilizing microscopy for artist and scientific application.  From a scientific standpoint, I don't have  formal training in optics or PLM theory for that matter but I do understand the basics.  I am a pharmaceutical scientist and have used microscopy more for qualitative rather than quantitative assessment.  How I arrived at the current experiment, is a result of attempts to increase detail in subjects with low birefringence or rater thick subjects.  I have found some utility in combining darkfield with PLM as it appears that you can focus on crystal edges (with potential usefulness in evaluating crystal growth) and oblique (as it allows additional qualitative topografical info of the crystal surface-like DIC I suppose). 
        I would like to insert an interference filter of know interference and conduct the same exercise.  So any suggestions you or anyone else may have would be great.  I greatly appreciate your comments.

        Thanks
        Bill
         

        ________________________________

        From: DonH <djhmis@...>
        To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 11:58:46 PM
        Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!


        > Thanks for your comments. Please take a look at the
        > photos if you can. I also have inserted a mylar sheet in
        > the optical path between the polarizer and sample.

        Hi,

        I did look, and they are fantastic, better than most of what I have done with the same type of subject. I suppose my comments were aimed at the more quantitative uses of accessories. For example, having an interference filter (such as Mylar) is useful, but it is more useful if you know the order of retardation.

        That said, I encourage your experimentation. The photos are delightful and you may discover a new twist on an old technique, or a cost-effective way of doing something that now requires an expensive filter or accessory.

        Yours truly,
        Don







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • William Mark
        John, I posted some additional photos last night.  They are in the same folder as the others.  I think the only obne which you mentioned that I did,t do was
        Message 3 of 20 , Oct 1 4:16 AM
          John,

          I posted some additional photos last night.  They are in the same folder as the others.  I think the only obne which you mentioned that I did,t do was the Mylar and phase, although I did look at it and it appeared no different than the phase.  Tonight I will try and take an image of it (although it won't be the same field of view).  The Mylar does not show stress lines as far as I remember.  I will examine it closer tonight.

          Thanks
          Bill



          ________________________________
          From: John <a.johnw@...>
          To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 5:44:48 AM
          Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!

           
          Hi Bill. It would be interesting to see what the mylar looks like between crossed polaroids and maybe on it's own through phase and phase plus polaroids too. Suspect you have stress patterns in the mylar. Crossed polaroids will show stress variations in many things. Could just be variations in ri of course.

          John

          --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@. ..> wrote:
          >
          > All,
          >
          > I have posted additional photos of the same firld with the various techniques.  Please have a look.  Thay are in the same folder.  They consist of a phase image then a PLM image, PLM and phase, PLM + Phase + Mylar 1, PLM + Phase + Mylar 2, PLM + Phase + Mylar 3, and PLM with mylar (no phase).  Opinions and comment please.
          >
          > Thanks
          >
          > Bill
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ____________ _________ _________ __
          > From: William Mark <wamman219@. ..>
          > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 1:30:31 PM
          > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
          >
          >  
          > Rene and Don,
          >
          > Thanks for your comments.  Please take a look at the photos if you can.  I also have inserted a mylar sheet in the optical path between the polarizer and sample.  This produces quite a different image than without the mylar.  Maybe I should also post photos of plain cross polars, phase and cross polars to compare with these. I am confident that this is functioning as a retardation plate.  Gives interesting images, I am not sure how useful (if at all) it is in general.  Any thoughts?
          >
          > Bill
          >
          > ____________ _________ _________ __
          > From: DonH <djhmis@yahoo. com>
          > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:58:27 AM
          > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
          >
          >  
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > In the workplace, due to established methods, we regularly combine polarized light with Zernicke-type phase contrast. I find it annoying, especially when I am trying to look for the Becke lines and for positive or negative relief at the edges of the material. When I want to get a clear look at the sample in polarized light for my own satisfaction, I rotate out the phase condenser stop. Of course, the phase objective still has a ring in it, which interferes with the image somewhat.
          >
          > Best,
          > Don
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • John
          Hi Bill. I ve always assumed you are in the US. If so there are several sources of 1/4wave retarder film (and others) from for instance
          Message 4 of 20 , Oct 1 4:38 AM
            Hi Bill. I've always assumed you are in the US. If so there are several sources of 1/4wave retarder film (and others) from for instance

            http://www.anchoroptics.com/catalog/product.cfm?id=303

            These are 2by2 and where $13 for 2 pieces. The interferometer group have posted other links but I couldn't come up with them via the search. From memory they were all places that sold polarising film.
            Thought this might interest you as the size makes it easy to put them some where in the light path. Don't know of a uk source.

            Wouldn't these have the capability to work like mica sheet ie Tilt would alter the retardation?

            John

            --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, William Mark <wamman219@...> wrote:
            >
            > John,
            >
            > I posted some additional photos last night.  They are in the same folder as the others.  I think the only obne which you mentioned that I did,t do was the Mylar and phase, although I did look at it and it appeared no different than the phase.  Tonight I will try and take an image of it (although it won't be the same field of view).  The Mylar does not show stress lines as far as I remember.  I will examine it closer tonight.
            >
            > Thanks
            > Bill
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: John <a.johnw@...>
            > To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 5:44:48 AM
            > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
            >
            >  
            > Hi Bill. It would be interesting to see what the mylar looks like between crossed polaroids and maybe on it's own through phase and phase plus polaroids too. Suspect you have stress patterns in the mylar. Crossed polaroids will show stress variations in many things. Could just be variations in ri of course.
            >
            > John
            >
            > --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
            > >
            > > All,
            > >
            > > I have posted additional photos of the same firld with the various techniques.  Please have a look.  Thay are in the same folder.  They consist of a phase image then a PLM image, PLM and phase, PLM + Phase + Mylar 1, PLM + Phase + Mylar 2, PLM + Phase + Mylar 3, and PLM with mylar (no phase).  Opinions and comment please.
            > >
            > > Thanks
            > >
            > > Bill
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ____________ _________ _________ __
            > > From: William Mark <wamman219@ ..>
            > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
            > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 1:30:31 PM
            > > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
            > >
            > >  
            > > Rene and Don,
            > >
            > > Thanks for your comments.  Please take a look at the photos if you can.  I also have inserted a mylar sheet in the optical path between the polarizer and sample.  This produces quite a different image than without the mylar.  Maybe I should also post photos of plain cross polars, phase and cross polars to compare with these. I am confident that this is functioning as a retardation plate.  Gives interesting images, I am not sure how useful (if at all) it is in general.  Any thoughts?
            > >
            > > Bill
            > >
            > > ____________ _________ _________ __
            > > From: DonH <djhmis@yahoo. com>
            > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
            > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:58:27 AM
            > > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
            > >
            > >  
            > >
            > > Hi,
            > >
            > > In the workplace, due to established methods, we regularly combine polarized light with Zernicke-type phase contrast. I find it annoying, especially when I am trying to look for the Becke lines and for positive or negative relief at the edges of the material. When I want to get a clear look at the sample in polarized light for my own satisfaction, I rotate out the phase condenser stop. Of course, the phase objective still has a ring in it, which interferes with the image somewhat.
            > >
            > > Best,
            > > Don
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • William Mark
            John, You are correct, I am in the US.  I had purchased 1/4 lambda and full wave films from achor/edmund optics in the past.  I could not find them recently
            Message 5 of 20 , Oct 1 5:28 AM
              John,

              You are correct, I am in the US.  I had purchased 1/4 lambda and full wave films from achor/edmund optics in the past.  I could not find them recently thus I turned to the Mylar, which I bought in an attempt to make an alignment slide for aligning pol microscopes.  I do remember that their full wave material is not at the 530-580 nm range but into the 600's (600-660?).  I only know this because I called them asking why my background with the full was blue instead of the expected magenta.  I wonder what the Mylar is, as it produces a turquoise background.

              Thanks for the suggestions.  I will see if I can get a hold of some more (or find the stuff I have).  I am also waiting for a Eringhaus compensator.  It will be nice to see about utilizing that.  I will keep you posted if you like.

              Thanks
              Bill




              ________________________________
              From: John <a.johnw@...>
              To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 7:38:50 AM
              Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!

               
              Hi Bill. I've always assumed you are in the US. If so there are several sources of 1/4wave retarder film (and others) from for instance

              http://www.anchorop tics.com/ catalog/product. cfm?id=303

              These are 2by2 and where $13 for 2 pieces. The interferometer group have posted other links but I couldn't come up with them via the search. From memory they were all places that sold polarising film.
              Thought this might interest you as the size makes it easy to put them some where in the light path. Don't know of a uk source.

              Wouldn't these have the capability to work like mica sheet ie Tilt would alter the retardation?

              John

              --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@. ..> wrote:
              >
              > John,
              >
              > I posted some additional photos last night.  They are in the same folder as the others.  I think the only obne which you mentioned that I did,t do was the Mylar and phase, although I did look at it and it appeared no different than the phase.  Tonight I will try and take an image of it (although it won't be the same field of view).  The Mylar does not show stress lines as far as I remember.  I will examine it closer tonight.
              >
              > Thanks
              > Bill
              >
              >
              >
              > ____________ _________ _________ __
              > From: John <a.johnw@... >
              > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
              > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 5:44:48 AM
              > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
              >
              >  
              > Hi Bill. It would be interesting to see what the mylar looks like between crossed polaroids and maybe on it's own through phase and phase plus polaroids too. Suspect you have stress patterns in the mylar. Crossed polaroids will show stress variations in many things. Could just be variations in ri of course.
              >
              > John
              >
              > --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
              > >
              > > All,
              > >
              > > I have posted additional photos of the same firld with the various techniques.  Please have a look.  Thay are in the same folder.  They consist of a phase image then a PLM image, PLM and phase, PLM + Phase + Mylar 1, PLM + Phase + Mylar 2, PLM + Phase + Mylar 3, and PLM with mylar (no phase).  Opinions and comment please.
              > >
              > > Thanks
              > >
              > > Bill
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ____________ _________ _________ __
              > > From: William Mark <wamman219@ ..>
              > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
              > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 1:30:31 PM
              > > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
              > >
              > >  
              > > Rene and Don,
              > >
              > > Thanks for your comments.  Please take a look at the photos if you can.  I also have inserted a mylar sheet in the optical path between the polarizer and sample.  This produces quite a different image than without the mylar.  Maybe I should also post photos of plain cross polars, phase and cross polars to compare with these. I am confident that this is functioning as a retardation plate.  Gives interesting images, I am not sure how useful (if at all) it is in general.  Any thoughts?
              > >
              > > Bill
              > >
              > > ____________ _________ _________ __
              > > From: DonH <djhmis@yahoo. com>
              > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
              > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:58:27 AM
              > > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
              > >
              > >  
              > >
              > > Hi,
              > >
              > > In the workplace, due to established methods, we regularly combine polarized light with Zernicke-type phase contrast. I find it annoying, especially when I am trying to look for the Becke lines and for positive or negative relief at the edges of the material. When I want to get a clear look at the sample in polarized light for my own satisfaction, I rotate out the phase condenser stop. Of course, the phase objective still has a ring in it, which interferes with the image somewhat.
              > >
              > > Best,
              > > Don
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • J. Forster
              Which Interferometer Group, please? -John
              Message 6 of 20 , Oct 1 9:23 AM
                Which Interferometer Group, please?

                -John

                ===============



                > Hi Bill. I've always assumed you are in the US. If so there are several
                > sources of 1/4wave retarder film (and others) from for instance
                >
                > http://www.anchoroptics.com/catalog/product.cfm?id=303
                >
                > These are 2by2 and where $13 for 2 pieces. The interferometer group have
                > posted other links but I couldn't come up with them via the search. From
                > memory they were all places that sold polarising film.
                > Thought this might interest you as the size makes it easy to put them some
                > where in the light path. Don't know of a uk source.
                >
                > Wouldn't these have the capability to work like mica sheet ie Tilt would
                > alter the retardation?
                >
                > John
                >
                > --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, William Mark <wamman219@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> John,
                >>
                >> I posted some additional photos last night.  They are in the same folder
                >> as the others.  I think the only obne which you mentioned that I did,t
                >> do was the Mylar and phase, although I did look at it and it appeared no
                >> different than the phase.  Tonight I will try and take an image of it
                >> (although it won't be the same field of view).  The Mylar does not show
                >> stress lines as far as I remember.  I will examine it closer tonight.
                >>
                >> Thanks
                >> Bill
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> ________________________________
                >> From: John <a.johnw@...>
                >> To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
                >> Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 5:44:48 AM
                >> Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                >>
                >>  
                >> Hi Bill. It would be interesting to see what the mylar looks like
                >> between crossed polaroids and maybe on it's own through phase and phase
                >> plus polaroids too. Suspect you have stress patterns in the mylar.
                >> Crossed polaroids will show stress variations in many things. Could just
                >> be variations in ri of course.
                >>
                >> John
                >>
                >> --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
                >> >
                >> > All,
                >> >
                >> > I have posted additional photos of the same firld with the various
                >> techniques.  Please have a look.  Thay are in the same folder.  They
                >> consist of a phase image then a PLM image, PLM and phase, PLM + Phase
                >> + Mylar 1, PLM + Phase + Mylar 2, PLM + Phase + Mylar 3, and PLM with
                >> mylar (no phase).  Opinions and comment please.
                >> >
                >> > Thanks
                >> >
                >> > Bill
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > ____________ _________ _________ __
                >> > From: William Mark <wamman219@ ..>
                >> > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                >> > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 1:30:31 PM
                >> > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions
                >> Needed!
                >> >
                >> >  
                >> > Rene and Don,
                >> >
                >> > Thanks for your comments.  Please take a look at the photos if you
                >> can.  I also have inserted a mylar sheet in the optical path between
                >> the polarizer and sample.  This produces quite a different image than
                >> without the mylar.  Maybe I should also post photos of plain cross
                >> polars, phase and cross polars to compare with these. I am confident
                >> that this is functioning as a retardation plate.  Gives interesting
                >> images, I am not sure how useful (if at all) it is in general.  Any
                >> thoughts?
                >> >
                >> > Bill
                >> >
                >> > ____________ _________ _________ __
                >> > From: DonH <djhmis@yahoo. com>
                >> > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                >> > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:58:27 AM
                >> > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions
                >> Needed!
                >> >
                >> >  
                >> >
                >> > Hi,
                >> >
                >> > In the workplace, due to established methods, we regularly combine
                >> polarized light with Zernicke-type phase contrast. I find it annoying,
                >> especially when I am trying to look for the Becke lines and for
                >> positive or negative relief at the edges of the material. When I want
                >> to get a clear look at the sample in polarized light for my own
                >> satisfaction, I rotate out the phase condenser stop. Of course, the
                >> phase objective still has a ring in it, which interferes with the
                >> image somewhat.
                >> >
                >> > Best,
                >> > Don
                >> >
                >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >> >
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • John
                They are probably for red laser light which is usually 600 to 600 odd nm. Not even sure what a eringhaus compensator is even after reading the olympus
                Message 7 of 20 , Oct 1 11:59 AM
                  They are probably for red laser light which is usually 600 to 600 odd nm. Not even sure what a eringhaus compensator is even after reading the olympus description. No diagrams.

                  John


                  --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, William Mark <wamman219@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > John,
                  >
                  > You are correct, I am in the US.  I had purchased 1/4 lambda and full wave films from achor/edmund optics in the past.  I could not find them recently thus I turned to the Mylar, which I bought in an attempt to make an alignment slide for aligning pol microscopes.  I do remember that their full wave material is not at the 530-580 nm range but into the 600's (600-660?).  I only know this because I called them asking why my background with the full was blue instead of the expected magenta.  I wonder what the Mylar is, as it produces a turquoise background.
                  >
                  > Thanks for the suggestions.  I will see if I can get a hold of some more (or find the stuff I have).  I am also waiting for a Eringhaus compensator.  It will be nice to see about utilizing that.  I will keep you posted if you like.
                  >
                  > Thanks
                  > Bill
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > From: John <a.johnw@...>
                  > To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 7:38:50 AM
                  > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                  >
                  >  
                  > Hi Bill. I've always assumed you are in the US. If so there are several sources of 1/4wave retarder film (and others) from for instance
                  >
                  > http://www.anchorop tics.com/ catalog/product. cfm?id=303
                  >
                  > These are 2by2 and where $13 for 2 pieces. The interferometer group have posted other links but I couldn't come up with them via the search. From memory they were all places that sold polarising film.
                  > Thought this might interest you as the size makes it easy to put them some where in the light path. Don't know of a uk source.
                  >
                  > Wouldn't these have the capability to work like mica sheet ie Tilt would alter the retardation?
                  >
                  > John
                  >
                  > --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > John,
                  > >
                  > > I posted some additional photos last night.  They are in the same folder as the others.  I think the only obne which you mentioned that I did,t do was the Mylar and phase, although I did look at it and it appeared no different than the phase.  Tonight I will try and take an image of it (although it won't be the same field of view).  The Mylar does not show stress lines as far as I remember.  I will examine it closer tonight.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks
                  > > Bill
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                  > > From: John <a.johnw@ >
                  > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                  > > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 5:44:48 AM
                  > > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                  > >
                  > >  
                  > > Hi Bill. It would be interesting to see what the mylar looks like between crossed polaroids and maybe on it's own through phase and phase plus polaroids too. Suspect you have stress patterns in the mylar. Crossed polaroids will show stress variations in many things. Could just be variations in ri of course.
                  > >
                  > > John
                  > >
                  > > --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > All,
                  > > >
                  > > > I have posted additional photos of the same firld with the various techniques.  Please have a look.  Thay are in the same folder.  They consist of a phase image then a PLM image, PLM and phase, PLM + Phase + Mylar 1, PLM + Phase + Mylar 2, PLM + Phase + Mylar 3, and PLM with mylar (no phase).  Opinions and comment please.
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks
                  > > >
                  > > > Bill
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                  > > > From: William Mark <wamman219@ ..>
                  > > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                  > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 1:30:31 PM
                  > > > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                  > > >
                  > > >  
                  > > > Rene and Don,
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks for your comments.  Please take a look at the photos if you can.  I also have inserted a mylar sheet in the optical path between the polarizer and sample.  This produces quite a different image than without the mylar.  Maybe I should also post photos of plain cross polars, phase and cross polars to compare with these. I am confident that this is functioning as a retardation plate.  Gives interesting images, I am not sure how useful (if at all) it is in general.  Any thoughts?
                  > > >
                  > > > Bill
                  > > >
                  > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                  > > > From: DonH <djhmis@yahoo. com>
                  > > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                  > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:58:27 AM
                  > > > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                  > > >
                  > > >  
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi,
                  > > >
                  > > > In the workplace, due to established methods, we regularly combine polarized light with Zernicke-type phase contrast. I find it annoying, especially when I am trying to look for the Becke lines and for positive or negative relief at the edges of the material. When I want to get a clear look at the sample in polarized light for my own satisfaction, I rotate out the phase condenser stop. Of course, the phase objective still has a ring in it, which interferes with the image somewhat.
                  > > >
                  > > > Best,
                  > > > Don
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • John
                  This one John http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/interferometry/ It s mainly concerned with bath common path types and there use for testing telescope mirror
                  Message 8 of 20 , Oct 1 12:04 PM
                    This one John

                    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/interferometry/

                    It's mainly concerned with bath common path types and there use for testing telescope mirror optics but other aspects crop up.

                    John


                    --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, "J. Forster" <jfor@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Which Interferometer Group, please?
                    >
                    > -John
                    >
                    > ===============
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > Hi Bill. I've always assumed you are in the US. If so there are several
                    > > sources of 1/4wave retarder film (and others) from for instance
                    > >
                    > > http://www.anchoroptics.com/catalog/product.cfm?id=303
                    > >
                    > > These are 2by2 and where $13 for 2 pieces. The interferometer group have
                    > > posted other links but I couldn't come up with them via the search. From
                    > > memory they were all places that sold polarising film.
                    > > Thought this might interest you as the size makes it easy to put them some
                    > > where in the light path. Don't know of a uk source.
                    > >
                    > > Wouldn't these have the capability to work like mica sheet ie Tilt would
                    > > alter the retardation?
                    > >
                    > > John
                    > >
                    > > --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, William Mark <wamman219@> wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >> John,
                    > >>
                    > >> I posted some additional photos last night.  They are in the same folder
                    > >> as the others.  I think the only obne which you mentioned that I did,t
                    > >> do was the Mylar and phase, although I did look at it and it appeared no
                    > >> different than the phase.  Tonight I will try and take an image of it
                    > >> (although it won't be the same field of view).  The Mylar does not show
                    > >> stress lines as far as I remember.  I will examine it closer tonight.
                    > >>
                    > >> Thanks
                    > >> Bill
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> ________________________________
                    > >> From: John <a.johnw@>
                    > >> To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
                    > >> Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 5:44:48 AM
                    > >> Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                    > >>
                    > >>  
                    > >> Hi Bill. It would be interesting to see what the mylar looks like
                    > >> between crossed polaroids and maybe on it's own through phase and phase
                    > >> plus polaroids too. Suspect you have stress patterns in the mylar.
                    > >> Crossed polaroids will show stress variations in many things. Could just
                    > >> be variations in ri of course.
                    > >>
                    > >> John
                    > >>
                    > >> --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
                    > >> >
                    > >> > All,
                    > >> >
                    > >> > I have posted additional photos of the same firld with the various
                    > >> techniques.  Please have a look.  Thay are in the same folder.  They
                    > >> consist of a phase image then a PLM image, PLM and phase, PLM + Phase
                    > >> + Mylar 1, PLM + Phase + Mylar 2, PLM + Phase + Mylar 3, and PLM with
                    > >> mylar (no phase).  Opinions and comment please.
                    > >> >
                    > >> > Thanks
                    > >> >
                    > >> > Bill
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> > ____________ _________ _________ __
                    > >> > From: William Mark <wamman219@ ..>
                    > >> > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                    > >> > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 1:30:31 PM
                    > >> > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions
                    > >> Needed!
                    > >> >
                    > >> >  
                    > >> > Rene and Don,
                    > >> >
                    > >> > Thanks for your comments.  Please take a look at the photos if you
                    > >> can.  I also have inserted a mylar sheet in the optical path between
                    > >> the polarizer and sample.  This produces quite a different image than
                    > >> without the mylar.  Maybe I should also post photos of plain cross
                    > >> polars, phase and cross polars to compare with these. I am confident
                    > >> that this is functioning as a retardation plate.  Gives interesting
                    > >> images, I am not sure how useful (if at all) it is in general.  Any
                    > >> thoughts?
                    > >> >
                    > >> > Bill
                    > >> >
                    > >> > ____________ _________ _________ __
                    > >> > From: DonH <djhmis@yahoo. com>
                    > >> > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                    > >> > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:58:27 AM
                    > >> > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions
                    > >> Needed!
                    > >> >
                    > >> >  
                    > >> >
                    > >> > Hi,
                    > >> >
                    > >> > In the workplace, due to established methods, we regularly combine
                    > >> polarized light with Zernicke-type phase contrast. I find it annoying,
                    > >> especially when I am trying to look for the Becke lines and for
                    > >> positive or negative relief at the edges of the material. When I want
                    > >> to get a clear look at the sample in polarized light for my own
                    > >> satisfaction, I rotate out the phase condenser stop. Of course, the
                    > >> phase objective still has a ring in it, which interferes with the
                    > >> image somewhat.
                    > >> >
                    > >> > Best,
                    > >> > Don
                    > >> >
                    > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >> >
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • William Mark
                    John, I haven t used the Eringhaus compensator before, but I believe it is similar to a Berek compensator (technically used for determining phase or
                    Message 9 of 20 , Oct 1 12:39 PM
                      John,

                      I haven't used the Eringhaus compensator before, but I believe it is similar to a Berek compensator (technically used for determining phase or crystal/fiber order).  May not be of any use in my little experiment though.  I have also been trying to locate info on  poly(ethylene terephthalate) (PET or Mylar) to see what its optical properties are.

                      Bill

                      P.S.  I have some PDF files I could send you if you are interested in the use of the compensator.



                      ________________________________
                      From: John <a.johnw@...>
                      To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 2:59:50 PM
                      Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!

                       
                      They are probably for red laser light which is usually 600 to 600 odd nm. Not even sure what a eringhaus compensator is even after reading the olympus description. No diagrams.

                      John

                      --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@. ..> wrote:
                      >
                      > John,
                      >
                      > You are correct, I am in the US.  I had purchased 1/4 lambda and full wave films from achor/edmund optics in the past.  I could not find them recently thus I turned to the Mylar, which I bought in an attempt to make an alignment slide for aligning pol microscopes.  I do remember that their full wave material is not at the 530-580 nm range but into the 600's (600-660?).  I only know this because I called them asking why my background with the full was blue instead of the expected magenta.  I wonder what the Mylar is, as it produces a turquoise background.
                      >
                      > Thanks for the suggestions.  I will see if I can get a hold of some more (or find the stuff I have).  I am also waiting for a Eringhaus compensator.  It will be nice to see about utilizing that.  I will keep you posted if you like.
                      >
                      > Thanks
                      > Bill
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ____________ _________ _________ __
                      > From: John <a.johnw@... >
                      > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                      > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 7:38:50 AM
                      > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                      >
                      >  
                      > Hi Bill. I've always assumed you are in the US. If so there are several sources of 1/4wave retarder film (and others) from for instance
                      >
                      > http://www.anchorop tics.com/ catalog/product. cfm?id=303
                      >
                      > These are 2by2 and where $13 for 2 pieces. The interferometer group have posted other links but I couldn't come up with them via the search. From memory they were all places that sold polarising film.
                      > Thought this might interest you as the size makes it easy to put them some where in the light path. Don't know of a uk source.
                      >
                      > Wouldn't these have the capability to work like mica sheet ie Tilt would alter the retardation?
                      >
                      > John
                      >
                      > --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > John,
                      > >
                      > > I posted some additional photos last night.  They are in the same folder as the others.  I think the only obne which you mentioned that I did,t do was the Mylar and phase, although I did look at it and it appeared no different than the phase.  Tonight I will try and take an image of it (although it won't be the same field of view).  The Mylar does not show stress lines as far as I remember.  I will examine it closer tonight.
                      > >
                      > > Thanks
                      > > Bill
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                      > > From: John <a.johnw@ >
                      > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                      > > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 5:44:48 AM
                      > > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                      > >
                      > >  
                      > > Hi Bill. It would be interesting to see what the mylar looks like between crossed polaroids and maybe on it's own through phase and phase plus polaroids too. Suspect you have stress patterns in the mylar. Crossed polaroids will show stress variations in many things. Could just be variations in ri of course.
                      > >
                      > > John
                      > >
                      > > --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > All,
                      > > >
                      > > > I have posted additional photos of the same firld with the various techniques.  Please have a look.  Thay are in the same folder.  They consist of a phase image then a PLM image, PLM and phase, PLM + Phase + Mylar 1, PLM + Phase + Mylar 2, PLM + Phase + Mylar 3, and PLM with mylar (no phase).  Opinions and comment please.
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanks
                      > > >
                      > > > Bill
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                      > > > From: William Mark <wamman219@ ..>
                      > > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                      > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 1:30:31 PM
                      > > > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                      > > >
                      > > >  
                      > > > Rene and Don,
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanks for your comments.  Please take a look at the photos if you can.  I also have inserted a mylar sheet in the optical path between the polarizer and sample.  This produces quite a different image than without the mylar.  Maybe I should also post photos of plain cross polars, phase and cross polars to compare with these. I am confident that this is functioning as a retardation plate.  Gives interesting images, I am not sure how useful (if at all) it is in general.  Any thoughts?
                      > > >
                      > > > Bill
                      > > >
                      > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                      > > > From: DonH <djhmis@yahoo. com>
                      > > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                      > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:58:27 AM
                      > > > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                      > > >
                      > > >  
                      > > >
                      > > > Hi,
                      > > >
                      > > > In the workplace, due to established methods, we regularly combine polarized light with Zernicke-type phase contrast. I find it annoying, especially when I am trying to look for the Becke lines and for positive or negative relief at the edges of the material. When I want to get a clear look at the sample in polarized light for my own satisfaction, I rotate out the phase condenser stop. Of course, the phase objective still has a ring in it, which interferes with the image somewhat.
                      > > >
                      > > > Best,
                      > > > Don
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • John
                      That would be great Bill. The problem with the olympus description is the lack of diagram showing just how it works. That sort of thing always causes me to
                      Message 10 of 20 , Oct 1 1:57 PM
                        That would be great Bill. The problem with the olympus description is the lack of diagram showing just how it works. That sort of thing always causes me to raise a mental block.

                        John

                        --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, William Mark <wamman219@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > John,
                        >
                        > I haven't used the Eringhaus compensator before, but I believe it is similar to a Berek compensator (technically used for determining phase or crystal/fiber order).  May not be of any use in my little experiment though.  I have also been trying to locate info on  poly(ethylene terephthalate) (PET or Mylar) to see what its optical properties are.
                        >
                        > Bill
                        >
                        > P.S.  I have some PDF files I could send you if you are interested in the use of the compensator.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: John <a.johnw@...>
                        > To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 2:59:50 PM
                        > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                        >
                        >  
                        > They are probably for red laser light which is usually 600 to 600 odd nm. Not even sure what a eringhaus compensator is even after reading the olympus description. No diagrams.
                        >
                        > John
                        >
                        > --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > John,
                        > >
                        > > You are correct, I am in the US.  I had purchased 1/4 lambda and full wave films from achor/edmund optics in the past.  I could not find them recently thus I turned to the Mylar, which I bought in an attempt to make an alignment slide for aligning pol microscopes.  I do remember that their full wave material is not at the 530-580 nm range but into the 600's (600-660?).  I only know this because I called them asking why my background with the full was blue instead of the expected magenta.  I wonder what the Mylar is, as it produces a turquoise background.
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for the suggestions.  I will see if I can get a hold of some more (or find the stuff I have).  I am also waiting for a Eringhaus compensator.  It will be nice to see about utilizing that.  I will keep you posted if you like.
                        > >
                        > > Thanks
                        > > Bill
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                        > > From: John <a.johnw@ >
                        > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                        > > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 7:38:50 AM
                        > > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                        > >
                        > >  
                        > > Hi Bill. I've always assumed you are in the US. If so there are several sources of 1/4wave retarder film (and others) from for instance
                        > >
                        > > http://www.anchorop tics.com/ catalog/product. cfm?id=303
                        > >
                        > > These are 2by2 and where $13 for 2 pieces. The interferometer group have posted other links but I couldn't come up with them via the search. From memory they were all places that sold polarising film.
                        > > Thought this might interest you as the size makes it easy to put them some where in the light path. Don't know of a uk source.
                        > >
                        > > Wouldn't these have the capability to work like mica sheet ie Tilt would alter the retardation?
                        > >
                        > > John
                        > >
                        > > --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > John,
                        > > >
                        > > > I posted some additional photos last night.  They are in the same folder as the others.  I think the only obne which you mentioned that I did,t do was the Mylar and phase, although I did look at it and it appeared no different than the phase.  Tonight I will try and take an image of it (although it won't be the same field of view).  The Mylar does not show stress lines as far as I remember.  I will examine it closer tonight.
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks
                        > > > Bill
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                        > > > From: John <a.johnw@ >
                        > > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                        > > > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 5:44:48 AM
                        > > > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                        > > >
                        > > >  
                        > > > Hi Bill. It would be interesting to see what the mylar looks like between crossed polaroids and maybe on it's own through phase and phase plus polaroids too. Suspect you have stress patterns in the mylar. Crossed polaroids will show stress variations in many things. Could just be variations in ri of course.
                        > > >
                        > > > John
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > All,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I have posted additional photos of the same firld with the various techniques.  Please have a look.  Thay are in the same folder.  They consist of a phase image then a PLM image, PLM and phase, PLM + Phase + Mylar 1, PLM + Phase + Mylar 2, PLM + Phase + Mylar 3, and PLM with mylar (no phase).  Opinions and comment please.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Thanks
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Bill
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                        > > > > From: William Mark <wamman219@ ..>
                        > > > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                        > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 1:30:31 PM
                        > > > > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                        > > > >
                        > > > >  
                        > > > > Rene and Don,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Thanks for your comments.  Please take a look at the photos if you can.  I also have inserted a mylar sheet in the optical path between the polarizer and sample.  This produces quite a different image than without the mylar.  Maybe I should also post photos of plain cross polars, phase and cross polars to compare with these. I am confident that this is functioning as a retardation plate.  Gives interesting images, I am not sure how useful (if at all) it is in general.  Any thoughts?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Bill
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                        > > > > From: DonH <djhmis@yahoo. com>
                        > > > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                        > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:58:27 AM
                        > > > > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                        > > > >
                        > > > >  
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Hi,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > In the workplace, due to established methods, we regularly combine polarized light with Zernicke-type phase contrast. I find it annoying, especially when I am trying to look for the Becke lines and for positive or negative relief at the edges of the material. When I want to get a clear look at the sample in polarized light for my own satisfaction, I rotate out the phase condenser stop. Of course, the phase objective still has a ring in it, which interferes with the image somewhat.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Best,
                        > > > > Don
                        > > > >
                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Salvatore Previtera
                        Hi Bill, The Ehringhaus compensator is similar in use to the Berek one, but is differently built. The Berek compensator consists of a plate of calcite (or
                        Message 11 of 20 , Oct 2 1:07 AM
                          Hi Bill,
                          The Ehringhaus compensator is similar in use to the Berek one, but is differently built.
                          The Berek compensator consists of a plate of calcite (or other material) cut perpendicularly to the optic axis.
                          The Ehringhaus compensator is made of two plates cut along one axis and superimposed one perpendicular to the other so to cancel the retardation of each plate.
                          Both behave as a no retardation device when placed horizontally, that is perpendicularly to the microscope optic axis, but introduce more and more retardation when tilted.
                          If you observe a birefringent sample, placed at 45° to the polarization planes, the compensator, placed similarly, when rotated, will add or subtract its retardation.
                          If the color of the specimen goes to higher retardations, the sample must be rotated by 90°, and by rotating the compensator a condition must be met when the specimen appears black or dark grey. By reading the angle of tilt and using the accompanying table, the retardation of the sample can be determined.
                          If this condition is not met, may be that the retardation of the sample is larger than that of the compensator at maximum tilt. In this case a compensator made of thicker plates must be used (at least for the Berek type, retardation up to many wavelengths is possible in many commercially available devices).
                          I hope it is sufficently clear.
                          If not, consider that polarization microscopy is rather complex, and difficult to manage on a qualitative basis only, without going into crystallographic optics.
                          Salvatore


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: William Mark
                          To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 9:39 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!


                          John,

                          I haven't used the Eringhaus compensator before, but I believe it is similar to a Berek compensator (technically used for determining phase or crystal/fiber order). May not be of any use in my little experiment though. I have also been trying to locate info on poly(ethylene terephthalate) (PET or Mylar) to see what its optical properties are.

                          Bill

                          P.S. I have some PDF files I could send you if you are interested in the use of the compensator.

                          ________________________________
                          From: John <a.johnw@...>
                          To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 2:59:50 PM
                          Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!


                          They are probably for red laser light which is usually 600 to 600 odd nm. Not even sure what a eringhaus compensator is even after reading the olympus description. No diagrams.

                          John

                          --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@. ..> wrote:
                          >
                          > John,
                          >
                          > You are correct, I am in the US. I had purchased 1/4 lambda and full wave films from achor/edmund optics in the past. I could not find them recently thus I turned to the Mylar, which I bought in an attempt to make an alignment slide for aligning pol microscopes. I do remember that their full wave material is not at the 530-580 nm range but into the 600's (600-660?). I only know this because I called them asking why my background with the full was blue instead of the expected magenta. I wonder what the Mylar is, as it produces a turquoise background.
                          >
                          > Thanks for the suggestions. I will see if I can get a hold of some more (or find the stuff I have). I am also waiting for a Eringhaus compensator. It will be nice to see about utilizing that. I will keep you posted if you like.
                          >
                          > Thanks
                          > Bill
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ____________ _________ _________ __
                          > From: John <a.johnw@... >
                          > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                          > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 7:38:50 AM
                          > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi Bill. I've always assumed you are in the US. If so there are several sources of 1/4wave retarder film (and others) from for instance
                          >
                          > http://www.anchorop tics.com/ catalog/product. cfm?id=303
                          >
                          > These are 2by2 and where $13 for 2 pieces. The interferometer group have posted other links but I couldn't come up with them via the search. From memory they were all places that sold polarising film.
                          > Thought this might interest you as the size makes it easy to put them some where in the light path. Don't know of a uk source.
                          >
                          > Wouldn't these have the capability to work like mica sheet ie Tilt would alter the retardation?
                          >
                          > John
                          >
                          > --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > John,
                          > >
                          > > I posted some additional photos last night. They are in the same folder as the others. I think the only obne which you mentioned that I did,t do was the Mylar and phase, although I did look at it and it appeared no different than the phase. Tonight I will try and take an image of it (although it won't be the same field of view). The Mylar does not show stress lines as far as I remember. I will examine it closer tonight.
                          > >
                          > > Thanks
                          > > Bill
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                          > > From: John <a.johnw@ >
                          > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                          > > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 5:44:48 AM
                          > > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Hi Bill. It would be interesting to see what the mylar looks like between crossed polaroids and maybe on it's own through phase and phase plus polaroids too. Suspect you have stress patterns in the mylar. Crossed polaroids will show stress variations in many things. Could just be variations in ri of course.
                          > >
                          > > John
                          > >
                          > > --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > All,
                          > > >
                          > > > I have posted additional photos of the same firld with the various techniques. Please have a look. Thay are in the same folder. They consist of a phase image then a PLM image, PLM and phase, PLM + Phase + Mylar 1, PLM + Phase + Mylar 2, PLM + Phase + Mylar 3, and PLM with mylar (no phase). Opinions and comment please.
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks
                          > > >
                          > > > Bill
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                          > > > From: William Mark <wamman219@ ..>
                          > > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                          > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 1:30:31 PM
                          > > > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Rene and Don,
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks for your comments. Please take a look at the photos if you can. I also have inserted a mylar sheet in the optical path between the polarizer and sample. This produces quite a different image than without the mylar. Maybe I should also post photos of plain cross polars, phase and cross polars to compare with these. I am confident that this is functioning as a retardation plate. Gives interesting images, I am not sure how useful (if at all) it is in general. Any thoughts?
                          > > >
                          > > > Bill
                          > > >
                          > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                          > > > From: DonH <djhmis@yahoo. com>
                          > > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                          > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:58:27 AM
                          > > > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Hi,
                          > > >
                          > > > In the workplace, due to established methods, we regularly combine polarized light with Zernicke-type phase contrast. I find it annoying, especially when I am trying to look for the Becke lines and for positive or negative relief at the edges of the material. When I want to get a clear look at the sample in polarized light for my own satisfaction, I rotate out the phase condenser stop. Of course, the phase objective still has a ring in it, which interferes with the image somewhat.
                          > > >
                          > > > Best,
                          > > > Don
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • William Mark
                          Salvatore, Thanks for the info.  Bill ________________________________ From: Salvatore Previtera To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                          Message 12 of 20 , Oct 2 8:03 PM
                            Salvatore,

                            Thanks for the info. 

                            Bill




                            ________________________________
                            From: Salvatore Previtera <salvatore@...>
                            To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 4:07:28 AM
                            Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!

                             
                            Hi Bill,
                            The Ehringhaus compensator is similar in use to the Berek one, but is differently built.
                            The Berek compensator consists of a plate of calcite (or other material) cut perpendicularly to the optic axis.
                            The Ehringhaus compensator is made of two plates cut along one axis and superimposed one perpendicular to the other so to cancel the retardation of each plate.
                            Both behave as a no retardation device when placed horizontally, that is perpendicularly to the microscope optic axis, but introduce more and more retardation when tilted.
                            If you observe a birefringent sample, placed at 45° to the polarization planes, the compensator, placed similarly, when rotated, will add or subtract its retardation.
                            If the color of the specimen goes to higher retardations, the sample must be rotated by 90°, and by rotating the compensator a condition must be met when the specimen appears black or dark grey. By reading the angle of tilt and using the accompanying table, the retardation of the sample can be determined.
                            If this condition is not met, may be that the retardation of the sample is larger than that of the compensator at maximum tilt. In this case a compensator made of thicker plates must be used (at least for the Berek type, retardation up to many wavelengths is possible in many commercially available devices).
                            I hope it is sufficently clear.
                            If not, consider that polarization microscopy is rather complex, and difficult to manage on a qualitative basis only, without going into crystallographic optics.
                            Salvatore

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: William Mark
                            To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 9:39 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!

                            John,

                            I haven't used the Eringhaus compensator before, but I believe it is similar to a Berek compensator (technically used for determining phase or crystal/fiber order). May not be of any use in my little experiment though. I have also been trying to locate info on poly(ethylene terephthalate) (PET or Mylar) to see what its optical properties are.

                            Bill

                            P.S. I have some PDF files I could send you if you are interested in the use of the compensator.

                            ____________ _________ _________ __
                            From: John <a.johnw@yahoo. com>
                            To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 2:59:50 PM
                            Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!

                            They are probably for red laser light which is usually 600 to 600 odd nm. Not even sure what a eringhaus compensator is even after reading the olympus description. No diagrams.

                            John

                            --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@. ..> wrote:
                            >
                            > John,
                            >
                            > You are correct, I am in the US. I had purchased 1/4 lambda and full wave films from achor/edmund optics in the past. I could not find them recently thus I turned to the Mylar, which I bought in an attempt to make an alignment slide for aligning pol microscopes. I do remember that their full wave material is not at the 530-580 nm range but into the 600's (600-660?). I only know this because I called them asking why my background with the full was blue instead of the expected magenta. I wonder what the Mylar is, as it produces a turquoise background.
                            >
                            > Thanks for the suggestions. I will see if I can get a hold of some more (or find the stuff I have). I am also waiting for a Eringhaus compensator. It will be nice to see about utilizing that. I will keep you posted if you like.
                            >
                            > Thanks
                            > Bill
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ____________ _________ _________ __
                            > From: John <a.johnw@... >
                            > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                            > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 7:38:50 AM
                            > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                            >
                            >
                            > Hi Bill. I've always assumed you are in the US. If so there are several sources of 1/4wave retarder film (and others) from for instance
                            >
                            > http://www.anchorop tics.com/ catalog/product. cfm?id=303
                            >
                            > These are 2by2 and where $13 for 2 pieces. The interferometer group have posted other links but I couldn't come up with them via the search. From memory they were all places that sold polarising film.
                            > Thought this might interest you as the size makes it easy to put them some where in the light path. Don't know of a uk source.
                            >
                            > Wouldn't these have the capability to work like mica sheet ie Tilt would alter the retardation?
                            >
                            > John
                            >
                            > --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > John,
                            > >
                            > > I posted some additional photos last night. They are in the same folder as the others. I think the only obne which you mentioned that I did,t do was the Mylar and phase, although I did look at it and it appeared no different than the phase. Tonight I will try and take an image of it (although it won't be the same field of view). The Mylar does not show stress lines as far as I remember. I will examine it closer tonight.
                            > >
                            > > Thanks
                            > > Bill
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                            > > From: John <a.johnw@ >
                            > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                            > > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 5:44:48 AM
                            > > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Hi Bill. It would be interesting to see what the mylar looks like between crossed polaroids and maybe on it's own through phase and phase plus polaroids too. Suspect you have stress patterns in the mylar. Crossed polaroids will show stress variations in many things. Could just be variations in ri of course.
                            > >
                            > > John
                            > >
                            > > --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > All,
                            > > >
                            > > > I have posted additional photos of the same firld with the various techniques. Please have a look. Thay are in the same folder. They consist of a phase image then a PLM image, PLM and phase, PLM + Phase + Mylar 1, PLM + Phase + Mylar 2, PLM + Phase + Mylar 3, and PLM with mylar (no phase). Opinions and comment please.
                            > > >
                            > > > Thanks
                            > > >
                            > > > Bill
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                            > > > From: William Mark <wamman219@ ..>
                            > > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                            > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 1:30:31 PM
                            > > > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Rene and Don,
                            > > >
                            > > > Thanks for your comments. Please take a look at the photos if you can. I also have inserted a mylar sheet in the optical path between the polarizer and sample. This produces quite a different image than without the mylar. Maybe I should also post photos of plain cross polars, phase and cross polars to compare with these. I am confident that this is functioning as a retardation plate. Gives interesting images, I am not sure how useful (if at all) it is in general. Any thoughts?
                            > > >
                            > > > Bill
                            > > >
                            > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                            > > > From: DonH <djhmis@yahoo. com>
                            > > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                            > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:58:27 AM
                            > > > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Hi,
                            > > >
                            > > > In the workplace, due to established methods, we regularly combine polarized light with Zernicke-type phase contrast. I find it annoying, especially when I am trying to look for the Becke lines and for positive or negative relief at the edges of the material. When I want to get a clear look at the sample in polarized light for my own satisfaction, I rotate out the phase condenser stop. Of course, the phase objective still has a ring in it, which interferes with the image somewhat.
                            > > >
                            > > > Best,
                            > > > Don
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • gordoncouger
                            Bill, I am late to the thread. Your crystal pictures are very nice. The Mylar is sure acting as a wave plate. While plastics are probably easier to find it is
                            Message 13 of 20 , Oct 2 9:57 PM
                              Bill,

                              I am late to the thread. Your crystal pictures are very nice. The Mylar is sure acting as a wave plate.

                              While plastics are probably easier to find it is hard to find them in the strain free state. If you need to make wave plate that has a link to past work Mica is easy to use. You can peal off a 1/4 wave plate under a stream of water if the the Mica is smooth and even.

                              Use a needle to tease up a corner and peel off sheets under a small stream of water from tap and rinse them in distilled water. After they dry check them and cement the ones that suit your needs to a glass slide, cover slip or in a ring so the edge is covered with cement or paint to keep it from shedding splinters over time.

                              Be careful of the splinters and flakes mica makes. They are very much like fiber glass and stick in the skin. I expect breathing in any dust Mica makes might have a hard time finding its way back out of the lungs as well if it were small enough to get in the air sacs. So keep the water on running.

                              I know Mica can be rotated in both the horizontal and vertical plane. I expect Mylar works the same. When used this way it is not a wave plate but a compensator. This page on Michel Davidson's Molecular Expressions
                              http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/techniques/polarized/compensatorshome.html
                              Ian Walker shows how to build and use one in "A Miniature Variable Compensator: For the older microscope stands" in Miscape's November 2006 issue.
                              www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/artnov06/iw-minicompensator.html


                              Gordon

                              --- In Microscope@yahoogroups.com, William Mark <wamman219@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > John,
                              >
                              > You are correct, I am in the US.  I had purchased 1/4 lambda and full wave films from achor/edmund optics in the past.  I could not find them recently thus I turned to the Mylar, which I bought in an attempt to make an alignment slide for aligning pol microscopes.  I do remember that their full wave material is not at the 530-580 nm range but into the 600's (600-660?).  I only know this because I called them asking why my background with the full was blue instead of the expected magenta.  I wonder what the Mylar is, as it produces a turquoise background.
                              >
                              > Thanks for the suggestions.  I will see if I can get a hold of some more (or find the stuff I have).  I am also waiting for a Eringhaus compensator.  It will be nice to see about utilizing that.  I will keep you posted if you like.
                              >
                              > Thanks
                              > Bill
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: John <a.johnw@...>
                              > To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 7:38:50 AM
                              > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                              >
                              >  
                              > Hi Bill. I've always assumed you are in the US. If so there are several sources of 1/4wave retarder film (and others) from for instance
                              >
                              > http://www.anchorop tics.com/ catalog/product. cfm?id=303
                              >
                              > These are 2by2 and where $13 for 2 pieces. The interferometer group have posted other links but I couldn't come up with them via the search. From memory they were all places that sold polarising film.
                              > Thought this might interest you as the size makes it easy to put them some where in the light path. Don't know of a uk source.
                              >
                              > Wouldn't these have the capability to work like mica sheet ie Tilt would alter the retardation?
                              >
                              > John
                              >
                              > --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > John,
                              > >
                              > > I posted some additional photos last night.  They are in the same folder as the others.  I think the only obne which you mentioned that I did,t do was the Mylar and phase, although I did look at it and it appeared no different than the phase.  Tonight I will try and take an image of it (although it won't be the same field of view).  The Mylar does not show stress lines as far as I remember.  I will examine it closer tonight.
                              > >
                              > > Thanks
                              > > Bill
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                              > > From: John <a.johnw@ >
                              > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                              > > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 5:44:48 AM
                              > > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                              > >
                              > >  
                              > > Hi Bill. It would be interesting to see what the mylar looks like between crossed polaroids and maybe on it's own through phase and phase plus polaroids too. Suspect you have stress patterns in the mylar. Crossed polaroids will show stress variations in many things. Could just be variations in ri of course.
                              > >
                              > > John
                              > >
                              > > --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > All,
                              > > >
                              > > > I have posted additional photos of the same firld with the various techniques.  Please have a look.  Thay are in the same folder.  They consist of a phase image then a PLM image, PLM and phase, PLM + Phase + Mylar 1, PLM + Phase + Mylar 2, PLM + Phase + Mylar 3, and PLM with mylar (no phase).  Opinions and comment please.
                              > > >
                              > > > Thanks
                              > > >
                              > > > Bill
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                              > > > From: William Mark <wamman219@ ..>
                              > > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                              > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 1:30:31 PM
                              > > > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                              > > >
                              > > >  
                              > > > Rene and Don,
                              > > >
                              > > > Thanks for your comments.  Please take a look at the photos if you can.  I also have inserted a mylar sheet in the optical path between the polarizer and sample.  This produces quite a different image than without the mylar.  Maybe I should also post photos of plain cross polars, phase and cross polars to compare with these. I am confident that this is functioning as a retardation plate.  Gives interesting images, I am not sure how useful (if at all) it is in general.  Any thoughts?
                              > > >
                              > > > Bill
                              > > >
                              > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                              > > > From: DonH <djhmis@yahoo. com>
                              > > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                              > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:58:27 AM
                              > > > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                              > > >
                              > > >  
                              > > >
                              > > > Hi,
                              > > >
                              > > > In the workplace, due to established methods, we regularly combine polarized light with Zernicke-type phase contrast. I find it annoying, especially when I am trying to look for the Becke lines and for positive or negative relief at the edges of the material. When I want to get a clear look at the sample in polarized light for my own satisfaction, I rotate out the phase condenser stop. Of course, the phase objective still has a ring in it, which interferes with the image somewhat.
                              > > >
                              > > > Best,
                              > > > Don
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • William Mark
                              All, Please see the below link.  I found this and thought it would be of interest to the topic.
                              Message 14 of 20 , Oct 7 11:49 AM
                                All,

                                Please see the below link.  I found this and thought it would be of interest to the topic.

                                http://www.opticsinfobase.org/oe/viewmedia.cfm?uri=oe-15-26-17690&seq=0

                                Bill


                                ________________________________
                                From: gordoncouger <gordon.couger@...>
                                To: Microscope@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sat, October 3, 2009 12:57:24 AM
                                Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!

                                 

                                Bill,

                                I am late to the thread. Your crystal pictures are very nice. The Mylar is sure acting as a wave plate.

                                While plastics are probably easier to find it is hard to find them in the strain free state. If you need to make wave plate that has a link to past work Mica is easy to use. You can peal off a 1/4 wave plate under a stream of water if the the Mica is smooth and even.

                                Use a needle to tease up a corner and peel off sheets under a small stream of water from tap and rinse them in distilled water. After they dry check them and cement the ones that suit your needs to a glass slide, cover slip or in a ring so the edge is covered with cement or paint to keep it from shedding splinters over time.

                                Be careful of the splinters and flakes mica makes. They are very much like fiber glass and stick in the skin. I expect breathing in any dust Mica makes might have a hard time finding its way back out of the lungs as well if it were small enough to get in the air sacs. So keep the water on running.

                                I know Mica can be rotated in both the horizontal and vertical plane. I expect Mylar works the same. When used this way it is not a wave plate but a compensator. This page on Michel Davidson's Molecular Expressions
                                http://micro. magnet.fsu. edu/primer/ techniques/ polarized/ compensatorshome .html
                                Ian Walker shows how to build and use one in "A Miniature Variable Compensator: For the older microscope stands" in Miscape's November 2006 issue.
                                www.microscopy- uk.org.uk/ mag/artnov06/ iw-minicompensat or.html

                                Gordon

                                --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@. ..> wrote:
                                >
                                > John,
                                >
                                > You are correct, I am in the US.  I had purchased 1/4 lambda and full wave films from achor/edmund optics in the past.  I could not find them recently thus I turned to the Mylar, which I bought in an attempt to make an alignment slide for aligning pol microscopes.  I do remember that their full wave material is not at the 530-580 nm range but into the 600's (600-660?).  I only know this because I called them asking why my background with the full was blue instead of the expected magenta.  I wonder what the Mylar is, as it produces a turquoise background.
                                >
                                > Thanks for the suggestions.  I will see if I can get a hold of some more (or find the stuff I have).  I am also waiting for a Eringhaus compensator.  It will be nice to see about utilizing that.  I will keep you posted if you like.
                                >
                                > Thanks
                                > Bill
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                > From: John <a.johnw@... >
                                > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                                > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 7:38:50 AM
                                > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                                >
                                >  
                                > Hi Bill. I've always assumed you are in the US. If so there are several sources of 1/4wave retarder film (and others) from for instance
                                >
                                > http://www.anchorop tics.com/ catalog/product. cfm?id=303
                                >
                                > These are 2by2 and where $13 for 2 pieces. The interferometer group have posted other links but I couldn't come up with them via the search. From memory they were all places that sold polarising film.
                                > Thought this might interest you as the size makes it easy to put them some where in the light path. Don't know of a uk source.
                                >
                                > Wouldn't these have the capability to work like mica sheet ie Tilt would alter the retardation?
                                >
                                > John
                                >
                                > --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > John,
                                > >
                                > > I posted some additional photos last night.  They are in the same folder as the others.  I think the only obne which you mentioned that I did,t do was the Mylar and phase, although I did look at it and it appeared no different than the phase.  Tonight I will try and take an image of it (although it won't be the same field of view).  The Mylar does not show stress lines as far as I remember.  I will examine it closer tonight.
                                > >
                                > > Thanks
                                > > Bill
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                > > From: John <a.johnw@ >
                                > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                                > > Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 5:44:48 AM
                                > > Subject: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                                > >
                                > >  
                                > > Hi Bill. It would be interesting to see what the mylar looks like between crossed polaroids and maybe on it's own through phase and phase plus polaroids too. Suspect you have stress patterns in the mylar. Crossed polaroids will show stress variations in many things. Could just be variations in ri of course.
                                > >
                                > > John
                                > >
                                > > --- In Microscope@yahoogro ups.com, William Mark <wamman219@ ..> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > All,
                                > > >
                                > > > I have posted additional photos of the same firld with the various techniques.  Please have a look.  Thay are in the same folder.  They consist of a phase image then a PLM image, PLM and phase, PLM + Phase + Mylar 1, PLM + Phase + Mylar 2, PLM + Phase + Mylar 3, and PLM with mylar (no phase).  Opinions and comment please.
                                > > >
                                > > > Thanks
                                > > >
                                > > > Bill
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                > > > From: William Mark <wamman219@ ..>
                                > > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                                > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 1:30:31 PM
                                > > > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                                > > >
                                > > >  
                                > > > Rene and Don,
                                > > >
                                > > > Thanks for your comments.  Please take a look at the photos if you can.  I also have inserted a mylar sheet in the optical path between the polarizer and sample.  This produces quite a different image than without the mylar.  Maybe I should also post photos of plain cross polars, phase and cross polars to compare with these. I am confident that this is functioning as a retardation plate.  Gives interesting images, I am not sure how useful (if at all) it is in general.  Any thoughts?
                                > > >
                                > > > Bill
                                > > >
                                > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                > > > From: DonH <djhmis@yahoo. com>
                                > > > To: Microscope@yahoogro ups.com
                                > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:58:27 AM
                                > > > Subject: Re: [Microscope] Re: Combining Optical Techniques Opinions Needed!
                                > > >
                                > > >  
                                > > >
                                > > > Hi,
                                > > >
                                > > > In the workplace, due to established methods, we regularly combine polarized light with Zernicke-type phase contrast. I find it annoying, especially when I am trying to look for the Becke lines and for positive or negative relief at the edges of the material. When I want to get a clear look at the sample in polarized light for my own satisfaction, I rotate out the phase condenser stop. Of course, the phase objective still has a ring in it, which interferes with the image somewhat.
                                > > >
                                > > > Best,
                                > > > Don
                                > > >
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