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Proposed Hunt Rule Change

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  • Richards
    Proposed Fox Hunt Rule Modification ________________________________ The current foxhunting rules fail to specify how total mileage is computed, and it lacks a
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 13, 2011
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      Proposed Fox Hunt Rule Modification
      ________________________________

      The current foxhunting rules fail to specify how total mileage is
      computed, and it lacks a standard definition of common start and finish
      points. Without this, we are all potentially running the race on a
      different course.


      Current rules state:
      ___________________

      The winner is the the team which has... traveled the shortest
      distance as determined by their automobile odometer and
      trip meter.


      Why this matters:
      ___________________

      "Total mileage" implies a common start and finish for all contestants.
      Any measurement used to determine the winner, should be the same,
      standard measure for all contestants. The current rule fails to
      specify the a single start and single finish point for all contestants.
      Using different finish points can lead to unfairness. Without a
      clearly and precisely defined finish point, we have no way to measure
      mileage in the first place. Otherwise, we create an uneven playing field.

      The current rule encourages hunters to hike the last x miles of the
      course after they determine the precise location of the fox. But, not
      all hunters are equally capable of hiking. Some hunters may not be able
      to hike as far as others because they have medical or physical
      limitations. No hunter should be penalized because another more agile,
      adept hunter can out-hike him over the last part of the course.

      Under the current rule, two teams can traverse exactly the same road
      course, but if one hikes the last tenth of a mile, and the other team
      drives right up to the Fox, the hikers will win - even though both
      teams have, essentially, traveled exactly the same distance, over the
      same course, to find the fox. Thus, the "winning" team will have fewer
      miles on its odometer, even though they traveled essentially the same
      total distance.

      We are not conducting orienteering type hunts, where hiking on foot is
      part of the game. Without defining a specific, standard, and common
      finish point; winning is really defined as:
      "how-far-away-from-the-fox-you-can-leave-your-car-and-still-
      hike-to-the-fox-before-time-expires."

      This is not a trivial matter. I understand the purported "winners" of
      the Sept 15 hunt abandoned their vehicle more than 1/4 mile from the
      fox, and traveled the balance of the way to the fox in another team's
      car ! Otherwise, they would not have arrived at the fox's location
      before time expired, and would have been disqualified.

      During the last Muskegon Hunt in November, walking across the sandy
      beach would save a team .8 mile. Team B elected to drive around to the
      fox, while Team M elected to walk it. Clearly, the chance a team will
      elect to hike the last part of the hunt to minimize odometer mileage is
      real and substantial, and not merely an imaginary notion. This could
      decide the winner in a close case.

      Moreover, we need to standardize how odometer mileage is taken.
      GPS-determined mileage must be total trip mileage, not just the best
      route possible. A hunter must demonstrate it shows how many actual
      miles were driven.

      All members of a team must finish the run together. Otherwise, it
      could become a footrace between single team members who make the best
      sprint to the finish.


      Proposed Rule Change:
      _____________________

      Refine the rule to define a common "finish line" or "finish point" in
      advance of the hunt to assure all hunters travel from the same start, to
      the same finish, place before the official score keeper measures total
      mileage.

      If a contestant uses anything other than a odometer, as specified in the
      current rules, it must be proven that his method of measuring mileage is
      accurate and reliable, such as proving that his GPS system did, in fact,
      measure his entire trip from start to stop, and not just the best route
      possible.

      All team members must arrive at the finish line together.


      Sidebar Observation:
      _____________________

      I am not objecting to any particular hunt. I merely suggest we modify
      Rules now to avoid any issues or problems in the future.
      _________________________________

      Just my take. Happy Trails.

      James / K8JHR
      _________________________________
    • Mark
      Jeez....do you read minds or what??? I didn t know the particulars as you mentioned but was wondering how walking vs. driving would impact the outcome of
      Message 2 of 2 , Jan 13, 2011
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        Jeez....do you read minds or what???
         
        I didn't know the particulars as you mentioned but was wondering how walking vs. driving would impact the outcome of mileage based fox hunts.  As you have pointed out, the current method has some flaws that time based hunting is exempt from.  Technically, if a person could run fast enough, they could win a hunt with zero miles. 
         
        I'm with you for the changes for mileage based hunts.  I would also wouldn't mind seeing a resurgence of time based hunts.
         
        73
         
        Mark K8MHZ
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Richards
        Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 1:09 PM
        Subject: [MichiganFoxHunter] Proposed Hunt Rule Change

         

        Proposed Fox Hunt Rule Modification
        ________________________________

        The current foxhunting rules fail to specify how total mileage is
        computed, and it lacks a standard definition of common start and finish
        points. Without this, we are all potentially running the race on a
        different course.

        Current rules state:
        ___________________

        The winner is the the team which has... traveled the shortest
        distance as determined by their automobile odometer and
        trip meter.

        Why this matters:
        ___________________

        "Total mileage" implies a common start and finish for all contestants.
        Any measurement used to determine the winner, should be the same,
        standard measure for all contestants. The current rule fails to
        specify the a single start and single finish point for all contestants.
        Using different finish points can lead to unfairness. Without a
        clearly and precisely defined finish point, we have no way to measure
        mileage in the first place. Otherwise, we create an uneven playing field.

        The current rule encourages hunters to hike the last x miles of the
        course after they determine the precise location of the fox. But, not
        all hunters are equally capable of hiking. Some hunters may not be able
        to hike as far as others because they have medical or physical
        limitations. No hunter should be penalized because another more agile,
        adept hunter can out-hike him over the last part of the course.

        Under the current rule, two teams can traverse exactly the same road
        course, but if one hikes the last tenth of a mile, and the other team
        drives right up to the Fox, the hikers will win - even though both
        teams have, essentially, traveled exactly the same distance, over the
        same course, to find the fox. Thus, the "winning" team will have fewer
        miles on its odometer, even though they traveled essentially the same
        total distance.

        We are not conducting orienteering type hunts, where hiking on foot is
        part of the game. Without defining a specific, standard, and common
        finish point; winning is really defined as:
        "how-far-away-from-the-fox-you-can-leave-your-car-and-still-
        hike-to-the-fox-before-time-expires."

        This is not a trivial matter. I understand the purported "winners" of
        the Sept 15 hunt abandoned their vehicle more than 1/4 mile from the
        fox, and traveled the balance of the way to the fox in another team's
        car ! Otherwise, they would not have arrived at the fox's location
        before time expired, and would have been disqualified.

        During the last Muskegon Hunt in November, walking across the sandy
        beach would save a team .8 mile. Team B elected to drive around to the
        fox, while Team M elected to walk it. Clearly, the chance a team will
        elect to hike the last part of the hunt to minimize odometer mileage is
        real and substantial, and not merely an imaginary notion. This could
        decide the winner in a close case.

        Moreover, we need to standardize how odometer mileage is taken.
        GPS-determined mileage must be total trip mileage, not just the best
        route possible. A hunter must demonstrate it shows how many actual
        miles were driven.

        All members of a team must finish the run together. Otherwise, it
        could become a footrace between single team members who make the best
        sprint to the finish.

        Proposed Rule Change:
        _____________________

        Refine the rule to define a common "finish line" or "finish point" in
        advance of the hunt to assure all hunters travel from the same start, to
        the same finish, place before the official score keeper measures total
        mileage.

        If a contestant uses anything other than a odometer, as specified in the
        current rules, it must be proven that his method of measuring mileage is
        accurate and reliable, such as proving that his GPS system did, in fact,
        measure his entire trip from start to stop, and not just the best route
        possible.

        All team members must arrive at the finish line together.

        Sidebar Observation:
        _____________________

        I am not objecting to any particular hunt. I merely suggest we modify
        Rules now to avoid any issues or problems in the future.
        _________________________________

        Just my take. Happy Trails.

        James / K8JHR
        _________________________________

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