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  • vexatious2001
    Been tied-up a bunch with work lately, so haven t really been hanging out here much. Have been getting some work in on the AF3; for example, with all the rain
    Message 1 of 18 , May 31, 2002
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      Been tied-up a bunch with work lately, so haven't really
      been hanging out here much.

      Have been getting some work in on the AF3; for example,
      with all the rain we have had, the 'skeeters are really
      bad, so this evening I added a flap of bug netting to
      the polytarp slot cover so I can have some ventilation
      without the critters.

      'Been looking for the ideal solution to holding the
      sail to the mast. Tried the cable ties and figured out
      how to remove then, without cutting, through the use of
      a sharp object, as suggested by Chuck (who will shortly
      be recieving the doctor's invoice). Not really a good
      solution to the sail-mounting problem.

      Lacing is cheap enough, but after stepping the mast
      and un-stepping it with the sail attached, I want a
      way to step the stick without the sail, and lacing the sail
      on after stepping takes too long, as does the unlacing to
      remove the sail.

      Individual rope ties are dirt cheap, allow the sail to be
      attached after stepping, but take a lot of time to tie, and
      one has to be mindfull of how much slack to leave in each
      "tie" so that it does not bind on the mast.

      So I was walking though a "Big Lots" close-out store the
      other day, looking for "marine equipment," when I saw
      something that might be the answer:

      Dog collars.

      Yes, you read that right; dog collars. For 99 cents I get
      a dog collar made from 3/4" wide plastic webbing with a
      quick connect/ disconnect plastic latch that takes a fraction
      of a second to work, and that can be disconnected with one
      hand (while, say, the other hand is hanging on to the halyard,
      like when reefing.) There is a seperate plastic buckel that
      adjusts the length of the loop (for different-size dog's necks,
      ya know). And sewn in is a handy "D" ring (made from a highly
      corrodable metal, I am sure) which I can use to lash the thing
      to the grommets on the sail (one normally attaches a leash to
      the "D" ring).

      And the things come in 5 decorator colors; I had to go to
      two different Big Lots stores to get enough blue ones.

      I started tieing these things on, when the father-in-law of
      the next-door neighbor came by last night, and we ended up
      shooting the bull and I did not get anything done. I don't
      socialize much with any of the neighbors, and a week or so ago
      he was visiting his relations when he noticed my "shipyard"
      activities and so wandered over to see what was up. Turns
      out he used to work in shipyards, and is 4 years into the
      construction of a welded-steel, 36 foot catamaran, located
      about 7 miles from here.

      Anyway, hope to get the collars on and try hoisting the sail
      tomorrow. After that i will have a better idea if this
      current brain-storm is going to work. My main concern is
      whether or not they will readily slide up and down the mast.
      Since they are a slick plastic webbing, I am hoping they will.

      Have to go now; the men with the white suits are here.

      bye bye.


      Max
    • petersimmons55409
      ... Max, you just may be a genious. I m heading to the pet store. I ve been lacing my sail, then unlacing when I haul out, and you re right, it s a pain in
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 1, 2002
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        > Dog collars.

        Max, you just may be a genious. I'm heading to the pet store. I've
        been lacing my sail, then unlacing when I haul out, and you're right,
        it's a pain in the neck. Much faster than what the C-scow boys go
        through, but I'm lazy. I want to get to the water and be sailing in 5
        minutes.

        Are you thinking that you'll leave the collars on the sail, attached by
        the leash rings? That's what I assume. Anyhow, whether it works or
        not, I think this is the best "Scrounger" idea I've heard.

        Pete
      • vexatious2001
        -- ... by ... I raised and lowered the sail, on my driveway, many times today; was installing the Michalak horizontal jiffy reefing system. Both the dog
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 1, 2002
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          --
          >
          > Are you thinking that you'll leave the collars on the sail, attached
          by
          > the leash rings? That's what I assume. Anyhow, whether it works or
          > not, I think this is the best "Scrounger" idea I've heard.
          >
          > Pete


          I raised and lowered the sail, on my driveway, many times today;
          was installing the Michalak horizontal "jiffy" reefing system.

          Both the dog collars and the jiffy reefing seem to work OK,
          at least on the "hard."

          One thing I noticed; the "D" rings are not welded closed, so
          a hard pull could open them up, in which case I will just lash
          the collar webbing to the sail. Either way, the collars stay
          attached to the sail, and hoisting or lowering the sail is
          almost dead easy. The quick connect/ disconnect buckles are
          the key. Also makes reefing easy; The snotter can be left
          attached, and when lowering the sail, the collars unbuckled
          to pass the eye in the mast.

          The things almost look as if they were intended for this
          purpose. None of the admitedly few who have seen the sail
          have guessed that they are dog collars.

          The only other problem would also apply to rope ties; If the
          collars near the top of the mast are adjusted so that they
          will be loose enough not to bind on the lower, thicker section
          of the mast, they do not hold the sail all that close to
          the upper, thinner section. Lacing would probably do better,
          tightening-up as the sail is hoisted.

          Anyway, the dog collars are going to the Midwest Messabout,
          arriving @ Rend Lake around noon this Friday.

          That should provide a more definetive test than "driveway sailing."




          Max
        • pepcruells
          ... Dear Max, those of us living so faar away (Spain) won t be able to see them dog collars at Rend Lake, so I wonder if perhaps you d be so kind as to publish
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 2, 2002
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            --- In Michalak@y..., "vexatious2001" <cadbury@s...> wrote:
            > Anyway, the dog collars are going to the Midwest Messabout,
            > arriving @ Rend Lake around noon this Friday.

            Dear Max, those of us living so faar away (Spain) won't be able to
            see them dog collars at Rend Lake, so I wonder if perhaps you'd be so
            kind as to publish a picture of one of them in order to have a look
            at the details you so extendedly explain. Who knows, perhaps we have
            the same type here, or we haven't. Thank you very much.

            pep
          • vexatious2001
            ... so ... I dropped-off a roll of film to be put on a disk this evening. There are photos of the first luanching, and there might be a photo of the dog
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 2, 2002
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              >
              > Dear Max, those of us living so faar away (Spain) won't be able to
              > see them dog collars at Rend Lake, so I wonder if perhaps you'd be
              so
              > kind as to publish a picture of one of them in order to have a look
              > at the details you so extendedly explain. Who knows, perhaps we have
              > the same type here, or we haven't. Thank you very much.
              >
              > pep



              I dropped-off a roll of film to be put on a disk this
              evening.

              There are photos of the first luanching, and there might
              be a photo of the dog collars on it as well.

              I will post some photos from that roll when I get it back,
              which may be Thursday.

              I know that there are photos of the dog collars and also
              the slot cover on the roll that is in the camera right
              now. I am sure I will use that roll up and maybe another
              roll @ the messabout, so that roll ought to get put on a disk
              next week.

              I need to get a digital camera.


              Max
            • lewisboats
              Do, as they are the fastest thing in the West. Click, transfer, crop and post. I can whip up a web page in 5 minutes, complete with pictures, font, formatting
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
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                Do, as they are the fastest thing in the West. Click, transfer, crop
                and post. I can whip up a web page in 5 minutes, complete with
                pictures, font, formatting and text. I picked up one on ebay for
                about $120 (reg $200). The cheapest are $75, giving 640 x 480 res, at
                the dept stores. The best now-a-days are sharp as a pin, running 5
                mega pixels. My Olympus defaults to JPEG format. Software can convert
                from there. With a floppy adaptor, it takes no time at all to get
                them on the PC. U can even use the adaptor to transfer files, up to
                128 meg., between computers. There are also USB adapters, Firewire
                and serial ones, which hook directly to the camera. Slick enough to
                rival teflon. Strictly for boat building stuff tho. Wouldn't want to
                waste the technology on anything trivial now, would we? Most of the
                pics on my pages are from the "cam", tho some of the older ones are
                scanned in from an old "instant" camera. Wish Ida had the camera then.

                Signed: a fan of digicams
                Steve.


                >" I need to get a digital camera."
                >
                >
                > Max
              • pepcruells
                ... Me too! Thanks Max, I knew you were going to show us your collar dogs, but I just wanted to show up my anxiety. BTW, I m building a 10 nesting dinghy
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
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                  >
                  > Signed: a fan of digicams
                  > Steve.
                  >
                  >
                  > >" I need to get a digital camera."
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Max

                  Me too! Thanks Max, I knew you were going to show us your collar
                  dogs, but I just wanted to show up my anxiety. BTW, I'm building a
                  10' nesting dinghy under our sun and I'm having a great time, but
                  nobody is taking pictures, and I'm asking all the spectators. My wife
                  brought a video camera but didn't shoot a foot, and I had to take
                  care of charging the batteries in between mixing epoxy pots. And all
                  the lookers just giving nice advices... There are days I finish
                  exhausted. The watchers: John Clay, my professor of English in the
                  Sixties (he's 66 now). Marian, his wife, Danish. Eric, their 3rd.
                  son, now 31. Sophie, Swedish, 27, a neighbour, model, owner of 4
                  dogs. Pasqual, 72, Catalan, owner of 400 sheep living nearby, and my
                  wife, as patient as all boatbuilders wife's.

                  When I finish this boat I'm going to make another one a 20% bigger in
                  all senses except for ply width, then a canoe, then a Michalak's...
                  what?

                  I'd like to know which of Jim's designs is more adequated for our
                  Mediterranean Sea. Not a lot of lakes or rivers here, you have to
                  drive to France or Switzerland... but our sea is quite placid in
                  summer. What are you suggesting, a Caprice, an AF2... ?

                  Have a nice day!

                  pep
                • petersimmons55409
                  ... I haven t bought the dog collars yet, but will do so this week. I would like to propose a nautical term for this system. I personally will be calling
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
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                    --- In Michalak@y..., "vexatious2001" <cadbury@s...> wrote:
                    > I raised and lowered the sail, on my driveway, many times today;
                    > was installing the Michalak horizontal "jiffy" reefing system.
                    >
                    > Both the dog collars and the jiffy reefing seem to work OK,
                    > at least on the "hard."
                    >
                    I haven't bought the dog collars yet, but will do so this week. I
                    would like to propose a nautical term for this system. I personally
                    will be calling these collars "Max Collars", and refering to the
                    attachment process as, "dogging." When attaching my sail, I will say to
                    all within earshot, "Almost ready. Just have to dog the max collars to
                    the mast." Even sailers will be impressed, because who enjoys the
                    esoteric bon mot more than sailers?
                    Pete
                  • vexatious2001
                    -- ... to ... to ... It s bad enough that the most common name of pet dogs is Max. Now I have to tolerate this! But seriously, these are just pieces of
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
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                      --
                      > I haven't bought the dog collars yet, but will do so this week. I
                      > would like to propose a nautical term for this system. I personally
                      > will be calling these collars "Max Collars", and refering to the
                      > attachment process as, "dogging." When attaching my sail, I will say
                      to
                      > all within earshot, "Almost ready. Just have to dog the max collars
                      to
                      > the mast." Even sailers will be impressed, because who enjoys the
                      > esoteric bon mot more than sailers?
                      > Pete



                      It's bad enough that the most common name of pet
                      dogs is "Max."

                      Now I have to tolerate this!

                      But seriously, these are just pieces of webbing, adjustable
                      in length, with a quick-connect buckle and an attached "D" Ring.

                      It is like they were made for this job.

                      Max
                    • vexatious2001
                      -- ... I don t know if anyone can really answer that question. Generally speaking, most people consider a multichine hull to be more sea worthy than a single
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
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                        --
                        > I'd like to know which of Jim's designs is more adequated for our
                        > Mediterranean Sea. Not a lot of lakes or rivers here, you have to
                        > drive to France or Switzerland... but our sea is quite placid in
                        > summer. What are you suggesting, a Caprice, an AF2... ?
                        >
                        > Have a nice day!
                        >
                        > pep


                        I don't know if anyone can really answer that question.

                        Generally speaking, most people consider a multichine hull
                        to be more "sea worthy" than a single chine, but maybe
                        a little more difficult and time consuming to build.
                        for that reason a Frolic 2 may be a better choice than
                        an AF2. The Caprice is nice, but quite a bit bigger
                        project than the other two boats.

                        Just speaking for myself (and I have never been to the
                        Mediterranean Sea) I think I would build a micro with
                        a fixxed keel and self bailing cockpit.

                        Others may not agree with that.

                        Michalak has not designed any fixxed keel boats that I am
                        aware of, although I have tried to talk him into designing
                        a fixxed keel version of the Music Box III. He won't do it,
                        though.

                        That Picara that he just came out with, with a multichine
                        hull and fixxed ballast, may be worth a look.

                        A lot depends on how big of a boat you want to deal with.


                        Max
                      • Chuck Leinweber
                        Just speaking for myself (and I have never been to the Mediterranean Sea) I think I would build a micro with a fixxed keel and self bailing cockpit.
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
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                          <snip>
                          Just speaking for myself (and I have never been to the
                          Mediterranean Sea) I think I would build a micro with
                          a fixxed keel and self bailing cockpit.

                          Others may not agree with that.
                          <snip>
                          Max
                          I, for one, don't agree. I have sailed on Micros in lumpy conditions, and I have sailed my Caprice off shore in 4-5 ft swells, and I can tell you that the Caprice will easily take way more than I will. You can not convince me that any boat is worth the danger and bother of a big lead keel. I think it is an outdated concept. Ok, maybe on a transoceanic voyage....

                          Chuck


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • sacalman
                          Pete said: I ... personally ... say to ... collars to ... I think that you could also rename the vertical spar on the boat as a Bone and then you could say:
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jun 3, 2002
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                            Pete said:

                            I
                            > would like to propose a nautical term for this system. I
                            personally
                            > will be calling these collars "Max Collars", and refering to the
                            > attachment process as, "dogging." When attaching my sail, I will
                            say to
                            > all within earshot, "Almost ready. Just have to dog the max
                            collars to
                            > the mast." Even sailers will be impressed, because who enjoys the
                            > esoteric bon mot more than sailers?
                            > Pete

                            I think that you could also rename the vertical spar on the boat as
                            a "Bone" and then you could say: "Almost ready. Just have to dog the
                            Max Collars to the Bone." ;^}

                            And Max will go down in history as the inventor of the Max Collar.

                            Incedentally, I have been using a similar method to furl the sails in
                            my Lightning for years and you can buy the straps at travel and
                            sporting goods stores as "Cinch Straps".
                          • paxton_consulting
                            You can not convince me that any boat is worth the danger and bother of a big lead keel. I think it is an outdated concept. Ok, maybe on a transoceanic
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jun 4, 2002
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                              You can not convince me that any boat is worth the danger and bother
                              of a big lead keel. I think it is an outdated concept. Ok, maybe on
                              a transoceanic voyage....
                              >
                              > Chuck

                              Amen to that!

                              There's a remarkable story in WoodenBoat #161 about designer R.
                              Spaulding Dunbar. He built shoal draft cruising boats that crossed
                              oceans. One of his designs SEA GOOSE was 43' LOA with a 13' beam and
                              only 3' draft. As to her performance at sea, Dunbar wrote "Now I
                              know that a good shoal boat is not only safe, but a whole lot more
                              comfortable and easier-motioned than a keel boat of the same size
                              under the same conditions."

                              An interesting side note: he loved to paint his boats with latex
                              house paint. As a designer he was a real maverick. Too bad more
                              builders didn't follow his lead.

                              Bill Paxton
                            • lulalake_1999
                              You have probably all read this article, but if not it s an article on painting boats in general, and latex paints in particular.
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jun 4, 2002
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                                You have probably all read this article, but if not it's an article
                                on painting boats in general, and latex paints in particular.

                                http://home.att.net/~DaveCarnell/articles.html#A1


                                Jules


                                --- In Michalak@y..., "paxton_consulting" <Bill@P...> wrote:
                                > You can not convince me that any boat is worth the danger and
                                bother
                                > of a big lead keel. I think it is an outdated concept. Ok, maybe
                                on
                                > a transoceanic voyage....
                                > >
                                > > Chuck
                                >
                                > Amen to that!
                                >
                                > There's a remarkable story in WoodenBoat #161 about designer R.
                                > Spaulding Dunbar. He built shoal draft cruising boats that crossed
                                > oceans. One of his designs SEA GOOSE was 43' LOA with a 13' beam
                                and
                                > only 3' draft. As to her performance at sea, Dunbar wrote "Now I
                                > know that a good shoal boat is not only safe, but a whole lot more
                                > comfortable and easier-motioned than a keel boat of the same size
                                > under the same conditions."
                                >
                                > An interesting side note: he loved to paint his boats with latex
                                > house paint. As a designer he was a real maverick. Too bad more
                                > builders didn't follow his lead.
                                >
                                > Bill Paxton
                              • pepcruells
                                ...and I have sailed my Caprice off shore in 4-5 ft swells, and I can tell you that the Caprice will easily take way more than I will. You can not convince me
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jun 4, 2002
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                                  ...and I have sailed my Caprice off shore in 4-5 ft swells, and I can
                                  tell you that the Caprice will easily take way more than I will. You
                                  can not convince me that any boat is worth the danger and bother of a
                                  big lead keel. I think it is an outdated concept. Ok, maybe on a
                                  transoceanic voyage....
                                  >
                                  > Chuck

                                  Thanks a lot for your opinions (Micro + Caprice) I'd choose Caprice
                                  as JM said in one of his articles that Micro was not too easy to
                                  build and I think Caprice would be easier. Water ballast tanks can be
                                  a nuisance (rot problems, space lost) but are perfect for trailering.
                                  How could that aspect be improved? Sand bags, stones?

                                  Hasta luego!

                                  pep
                                • Richard Spelling
                                  Shape the hull ala catboat, and put a short rudder on it, so when you pass a certain point the hull becomes asymetrical, the rudder comes out of the water, and
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jun 5, 2002
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                                    Shape the hull ala catboat, and put a short rudder on it, so when you pass a
                                    certain point the hull becomes asymetrical, the rudder comes out of the
                                    water, and the boat heads up HARD. No ballast needed.

                                    Ala Chebacco.
                                    (but I'm prejudiced)

                                    - Chebacco Richard

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "pepcruells" <pepcruells@...>
                                    To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 6:53 PM
                                    Subject: [Michalak] Re: Just when you thought you had seen it all.....


                                    > build and I think Caprice would be easier. Water ballast tanks can be
                                    > a nuisance (rot problems, space lost) but are perfect for trailering.
                                    > How could that aspect be improved? Sand bags, stones?
                                    >
                                    > Hasta luego!
                                    >
                                    > pep
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > Michalak-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • captreed2000
                                    refering to the ... impressed, because who enjoys the ... Hi Pete, Should that be esoteric bon mutt? How are you going to distinguish this dogging from the
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jun 5, 2002
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                                      refering to the
                                      > attachment process as, "dogging." When Even sailers will be
                                      impressed, because who enjoys the
                                      > esoteric bon mot more than sailers?
                                      > Pete

                                      Hi Pete,

                                      Should that be esoteric bon mutt? How are you going to distinguish
                                      this dogging from the time honored "dogging the hatch"?

                                      Good looking boat, BTW.

                                      Reed
                                    • M Fx
                                      Fair enough. Altho, you might confuse big-ship sailors like me, to whom dogging means securing a watertight door or hatch- see:
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Jun 9, 2002
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                                        Fair enough. Altho, you might confuse big-ship
                                        sailors like me, to whom 'dogging' means securing a
                                        watertight door or hatch- see:
                                        http://www.freemanmarine.com/Hatches3100Series.htm
                                        or
                                        http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=Dogging

                                        but, please, don't let me stand in your way- sounds
                                        like a fun idea:)

                                        -MFX

                                        > I would like to propose a nautical term for this
                                        > system. I personally
                                        > will be calling these collars "Max Collars", and
                                        > refering to the
                                        > attachment process as, "dogging." When attaching my
                                        > sail, I will say to
                                        > all within earshot, "Almost ready. Just have to dog
                                        > the max collars to
                                        > the mast." Even sailers will be impressed, because
                                        > who enjoys the
                                        > esoteric bon mot more than sailers?
                                        > Pete


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