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Re: Wojtek (oars length question)

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  • captreed48
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 30, 2004
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      < my Mixer and got 8 1/2 ft. I store the oars with the loom in the
      <oarlocks and the blades stuck under a shock cord stretched across
      <the aft deck--they're mostly out of the way, quickly available, and
      <are likely to stay with the boat if you dump it.


      I bought 8' oars off the shelf and enjoy them. I tried shorter ones
      but felt like I was just prying the boat through the water with their
      shorter stroke.

      I also keep them in the oarlocks, sliding the looms forward through
      loops of 1/8" line secured to the gunwale at the forward end of the
      cockpit.

      Reed
    • awellbalancedgun
      Wojtek- I may have mis-typed earlier. I kept my oars short to fit withing the cockpit. The Mixer plans include plans for 6 1/2 oars for just this purpose.
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 4, 2004
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        Wojtek-

        I may have mis-typed earlier. I kept my oars short to fit withing
        the cockpit. The Mixer plans include plans for 6 1/2' oars for just
        this purpose. Michalak's book includes plans for slightly longer
        oars.

        I am not an experienced oarsman. But, from what I have read, 6 1/2'
        is very short. My oars are only intended to get me out of a sticky
        sailing situation (at least that is my present thinking - I may try
        rowing for fun sometime).

        I had thought to add some PVC tubing inlet into the forward (or aft)
        flotation bulkhead, mounted to a flange sealed to the bulkhead and
        with a cap on the inside end, to provide pockets for the shafts of
        the oars. But, so far this has not happened, and the oars, with the
        exception of the maiden voyage, stay in the car [where they will do
        me a lot of good when I need them ;( ]

        TJH




        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "wwbaginski" <baginski@f...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Tom-
        >
        > Thanks for this way of response, it made me to try to log in to
        > yahoo with my new e-mail address once more and here I am! Yahoo!
        And
        > congratulations once more.
        >
        > I understood you made the oars longer 2 feet than those drawn in
        > Mixer,s plans, am I right? Let me ask few questions :
        > 1/ do you think 2 feet is a big difference (anybody thinks so?)?
        > 2/ what is Mixer's distance of oarlocks and freeboard height?
        > 3/ is there known an optimal angle oar/water surface ?
        >
        > -Wojtek
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "awellbalancedgun"
        > <awellbalancedgun@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi, Wojtek-
        > >
        > > As you can tell from my posts, I am pleased with my
        > > Mixer. But, you might want to temper that enthusiasm
        > > with the knowledge that I am a complete novice
        > > sailor/boater!
        > >
        > > Thanks for the complements on the oars - they are
        > > Michalak's design from the Mixer plans, but, with the
        > > exception of the overall length, the same design as in
        > > his book and his online essays.
        > >
        > > Because of our cold wet spring this year (as I was
        > > contemplating starting the Mixer proper), I decided
        > > the oars would warm me up.
        > >
        > > Although Michalak lays them out on a 1 x 6, I had some
        > > 1 x 8 pine, resulting in more waste. I thought I
        > > would be able to minimize the knots, but that pine was
        > > horrible! I had to waste a few boards that warped
        > > quite unbelievably when I started ripping the parts
        > > out.
        > >
        > > I ended up setting the parts aside to await the
        > > anticipated boat construction down time. Getting back
        > > to the oars, however, ended up being one of the last
        > > things I did, and I cranked them out from glue to
        > > finish over a period of about three days.
        > >
        > > I glued the plies with Tightbond. Planed them by hand
        > > with a block plane (as I did my mast and sprit). I
        > > would have liked to have had a spoke shave.
        > >
        > > I think the pictures flatter them - in person they're
        > > a bit rough around the edges - I hurried them since
        > > they were somewhat holding up the launching. I was
        > > convinced I would need them to get back to the dock
        > > since I knew neither how to sail nor whether the
        > > design modifications would work. Funny, however, they
        > > haven't even touched the water, yet!
        > >
        > > Best,
        > >
        > > Tom
      • egiajack
        ... just ... I started with 6.5 oars for my Mixer (I bought them from West Marine). Yes indeedy they were pretty short for the job. So I got 7 oars (again
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 4, 2004
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          --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "awellbalancedgun"
          <awellbalancedgun@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Wojtek-
          >
          > I may have mis-typed earlier. I kept my oars short to fit withing
          > the cockpit. The Mixer plans include plans for 6 1/2' oars for
          just
          > this purpose.

          I started with 6.5' oars for my Mixer (I bought them from West
          Marine). Yes indeedy they were pretty short for the job. So I got
          7' oars (again at WM), and lo and behold they fit in the cockpit if
          you angle them a little. They're a bit better for rowing, although
          not perfect. It's unlikely that I'll row much farther than 6 miles
          anyway, so "short for convenience" is okay.

          Jack
        • John B. Trussell
          TJ-- This must be my night to respond to you. Jim drew the short oars to stow inside the cockpit (where they re in the way no matter how you store them). The
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 4, 2004
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            TJ-- This must be my night to respond to you. Jim drew the short oars to stow inside the cockpit (where they're in the way no matter how you store them). The correct oar length for Mixer is about 8'4". The way to stow the longer (or shorter) oars is to stretch a shock cord across the aft deck. Put the looms of the oars in the oarlocks and slide the blades under the shock cord. The oars are out of the way and can be put in the water quickly.

            Jim recommends a plywood box for a bench when rowing; I use a small flat top cooler--Mixer doesn't have enough room for a lot of spare boxes, and I multi-task with the cooler.

            John T
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: awellbalancedgun
            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:47 AM
            Subject: [Michalak] Re: Wojtek (oars length question)



            Wojtek-

            I may have mis-typed earlier. I kept my oars short to fit withing
            the cockpit. The Mixer plans include plans for 6 1/2' oars for just
            this purpose. Michalak's book includes plans for slightly longer
            oars.

            I am not an experienced oarsman. But, from what I have read, 6 1/2'
            is very short. My oars are only intended to get me out of a sticky
            sailing situation (at least that is my present thinking - I may try
            rowing for fun sometime).

            I had thought to add some PVC tubing inlet into the forward (or aft)
            flotation bulkhead, mounted to a flange sealed to the bulkhead and
            with a cap on the inside end, to provide pockets for the shafts of
            the oars. But, so far this has not happened, and the oars, with the
            exception of the maiden voyage, stay in the car [where they will do
            me a lot of good when I need them ;( ]

            TJH




            --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "wwbaginski" <baginski@f...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Tom-
            >
            > Thanks for this way of response, it made me to try to log in to
            > yahoo with my new e-mail address once more and here I am! Yahoo!
            And
            > congratulations once more.
            >
            > I understood you made the oars longer 2 feet than those drawn in
            > Mixer,s plans, am I right? Let me ask few questions :
            > 1/ do you think 2 feet is a big difference (anybody thinks so?)?
            > 2/ what is Mixer's distance of oarlocks and freeboard height?
            > 3/ is there known an optimal angle oar/water surface ?
            >
            > -Wojtek
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "awellbalancedgun"
            > <awellbalancedgun@y...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi, Wojtek-
            > >
            > > As you can tell from my posts, I am pleased with my
            > > Mixer. But, you might want to temper that enthusiasm
            > > with the knowledge that I am a complete novice
            > > sailor/boater!
            > >
            > > Thanks for the complements on the oars - they are
            > > Michalak's design from the Mixer plans, but, with the
            > > exception of the overall length, the same design as in
            > > his book and his online essays.
            > >
            > > Because of our cold wet spring this year (as I was
            > > contemplating starting the Mixer proper), I decided
            > > the oars would warm me up.
            > >
            > > Although Michalak lays them out on a 1 x 6, I had some
            > > 1 x 8 pine, resulting in more waste. I thought I
            > > would be able to minimize the knots, but that pine was
            > > horrible! I had to waste a few boards that warped
            > > quite unbelievably when I started ripping the parts
            > > out.
            > >
            > > I ended up setting the parts aside to await the
            > > anticipated boat construction down time. Getting back
            > > to the oars, however, ended up being one of the last
            > > things I did, and I cranked them out from glue to
            > > finish over a period of about three days.
            > >
            > > I glued the plies with Tightbond. Planed them by hand
            > > with a block plane (as I did my mast and sprit). I
            > > would have liked to have had a spoke shave.
            > >
            > > I think the pictures flatter them - in person they're
            > > a bit rough around the edges - I hurried them since
            > > they were somewhat holding up the launching. I was
            > > convinced I would need them to get back to the dock
            > > since I knew neither how to sail nor whether the
            > > design modifications would work. Funny, however, they
            > > haven't even touched the water, yet!
            > >
            > > Best,
            > >
            > > Tom




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          • awellbalancedgun
            Wojtek- I agree with your conclusion that the oars, although designed to go in the cockpit, are in the way no matter how you store them. That s why they stay
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 5, 2004
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              Wojtek-

              I agree with your conclusion that the oars, although designed to go
              in the cockpit, are in the way no matter how you store them. That's
              why they stay in the car. I've seen pictures of oars lashed to the
              aft deck and oar locks. But, it seems to me that this would spoil
              the comfortable corner I enjoy while at the helm since the oars have
              to cut this corner to get under the shock cord across the deck. Do
              you have any photos of this?

              For this reason, I have considered storing the shafts in the tubes
              inlet into the flotation volumes - at least part of the oars will be
              out of the way.

              How have you arrived at the 8'-4" length? Based on the Shaw and
              Tenney formula for 7:18 leverage?

              Thanks for your feedback!

              TJH






              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John B. Trussell"
              <John.Trussell@w...> wrote:
              > TJ-- This must be my night to respond to you. Jim drew the short
              oars to stow inside the cockpit (where they're in the way no matter
              how you store them). The correct oar length for Mixer is about
              8'4". The way to stow the longer (or shorter) oars is to stretch a
              shock cord across the aft deck. Put the looms of the oars in the
              oarlocks and slide the blades under the shock cord. The oars are out
              of the way and can be put in the water quickly.
              >
              > Jim recommends a plywood box for a bench when rowing; I use a small
              flat top cooler--Mixer doesn't have enough room for a lot of spare
              boxes, and I multi-task with the cooler.
              >
              > John T
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: awellbalancedgun
              > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 7:47 AM
              > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Wojtek (oars length question)
              >
              >
              >
              > Wojtek-
              >
              > I may have mis-typed earlier. I kept my oars short to fit
              withing
              > the cockpit. The Mixer plans include plans for 6 1/2' oars for
              just
              > this purpose. Michalak's book includes plans for slightly longer
              > oars.
              >
              > I am not an experienced oarsman. But, from what I have read, 6
              1/2'
              > is very short. My oars are only intended to get me out of a
              sticky
              > sailing situation (at least that is my present thinking - I may
              try
              > rowing for fun sometime).
              >
              > I had thought to add some PVC tubing inlet into the forward (or
              aft)
              > flotation bulkhead, mounted to a flange sealed to the bulkhead
              and
              > with a cap on the inside end, to provide pockets for the shafts
              of
              > the oars. But, so far this has not happened, and the oars, with
              the
              > exception of the maiden voyage, stay in the car [where they will
              do
              > me a lot of good when I need them ;( ]
              >
              > TJH
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "wwbaginski" <baginski@f...>
              wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Tom-
              > >
              > > Thanks for this way of response, it made me to try to log in to
              > > yahoo with my new e-mail address once more and here I am!
              Yahoo!
              > And
              > > congratulations once more.
              > >
              > > I understood you made the oars longer 2 feet than those drawn
              in
              > > Mixer,s plans, am I right? Let me ask few questions :
              > > 1/ do you think 2 feet is a big difference (anybody thinks so?)?
              > > 2/ what is Mixer's distance of oarlocks and freeboard height?
              > > 3/ is there known an optimal angle oar/water surface ?
              > >
              > > -Wojtek
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "awellbalancedgun"
              > > <awellbalancedgun@y...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi, Wojtek-
              > > >
              > > > As you can tell from my posts, I am pleased with my
              > > > Mixer. But, you might want to temper that enthusiasm
              > > > with the knowledge that I am a complete novice
              > > > sailor/boater!
              > > >
              > > > Thanks for the complements on the oars - they are
              > > > Michalak's design from the Mixer plans, but, with the
              > > > exception of the overall length, the same design as in
              > > > his book and his online essays.
              > > >
              > > > Because of our cold wet spring this year (as I was
              > > > contemplating starting the Mixer proper), I decided
              > > > the oars would warm me up.
              > > >
              > > > Although Michalak lays them out on a 1 x 6, I had some
              > > > 1 x 8 pine, resulting in more waste. I thought I
              > > > would be able to minimize the knots, but that pine was
              > > > horrible! I had to waste a few boards that warped
              > > > quite unbelievably when I started ripping the parts
              > > > out.
              > > >
              > > > I ended up setting the parts aside to await the
              > > > anticipated boat construction down time. Getting back
              > > > to the oars, however, ended up being one of the last
              > > > things I did, and I cranked them out from glue to
              > > > finish over a period of about three days.
              > > >
              > > > I glued the plies with Tightbond. Planed them by hand
              > > > with a block plane (as I did my mast and sprit). I
              > > > would have liked to have had a spoke shave.
              > > >
              > > > I think the pictures flatter them - in person they're
              > > > a bit rough around the edges - I hurried them since
              > > > they were somewhat holding up the launching. I was
              > > > convinced I would need them to get back to the dock
              > > > since I knew neither how to sail nor whether the
              > > > design modifications would work. Funny, however, they
              > > > haven't even touched the water, yet!
              > > >
              > > > Best,
              > > >
              > > > Tom
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • wwbaginski
              Tom- I think it was Jonh T speaking about 8 4 for Mixer, not me, BTW I m very curious about that Shaw and Tenney formula? What it tells? Are any other
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 5, 2004
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                Tom-

                I think it was Jonh T speaking about 8'4" for Mixer, not me, BTW I'm
                very curious about that Shaw and Tenney formula? What it tells? Are
                any other formulas known?

                -Wojtek


                IMichalak@yahoogroups.com, "awellbalancedgun"
                <awellbalancedgun@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Wojtek-
                >
                > I agree with your conclusion that the oars, although designed to
                go
                > in the cockpit, are in the way no matter how you store them.
                That's
                > why they stay in the car. I've seen pictures of oars lashed to
                the
                > aft deck and oar locks. But, it seems to me that this would spoil
                > the comfortable corner I enjoy while at the helm since the oars
                have
                > to cut this corner to get under the shock cord across the deck. Do
                > you have any photos of this?
                >
                > For this reason, I have considered storing the shafts in the tubes
                > inlet into the flotation volumes - at least part of the oars will
                be
                > out of the way.
                >
                > How have you arrived at the 8'-4" length? Based on the Shaw and
                > Tenney formula for 7:18 leverage?
                >
                > Thanks for your feedback!
                >
                > TJH
              • awellbalancedgun
                Ah, yes - John s comment. Someone, recently, mentioned Shaw & Tenney (they sell oars, I think) and their equation for calculating oar length. I did a quick
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 5, 2004
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                  Ah, yes - John's comment.

                  Someone, recently, mentioned Shaw & Tenney (they sell oars, I think)
                  and their equation for calculating oar length. I did a quick search
                  to find this page:

                  http://www.shawandtenney.com/sandtfaq.htm

                  Simple geometry, although I think they must base the leverage ratio
                  on the distance to the effective center of area of submerged oar.

                  They offer Culler-style square-loomed oars in addition to more
                  conventional styles. I believe Michalak based his designs on
                  Culler's design.

                  TJH

                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "wwbaginski" <baginski@f...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Tom-
                  >
                  > I think it was Jonh T speaking about 8'4" for Mixer, not me, BTW
                  I'm
                  > very curious about that Shaw and Tenney formula? What it tells? Are
                  > any other formulas known?
                  >
                  > -Wojtek
                  >
                  >
                  > IMichalak@yahoogroups.com, "awellbalancedgun"
                  > <awellbalancedgun@y...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Wojtek-
                  > >
                  > > I agree with your conclusion that the oars, although designed to
                  > go
                  > > in the cockpit, are in the way no matter how you store them.
                  > That's
                  > > why they stay in the car. I've seen pictures of oars lashed to
                  > the
                  > > aft deck and oar locks. But, it seems to me that this would
                  spoil
                  > > the comfortable corner I enjoy while at the helm since the oars
                  > have
                  > > to cut this corner to get under the shock cord across the deck.
                  Do
                  > > you have any photos of this?
                  > >
                  > > For this reason, I have considered storing the shafts in the
                  tubes
                  > > inlet into the flotation volumes - at least part of the oars will
                  > be
                  > > out of the way.
                  > >
                  > > How have you arrived at the 8'-4" length? Based on the Shaw and
                  > > Tenney formula for 7:18 leverage?
                  > >
                  > > Thanks for your feedback!
                  > >
                  > > TJH
                • John B. Trussell
                  I slide the oars under a shock chord going across the aft deck. The blades fit on either side of the hatch, and the oars run roughly parallel to the gunwales.
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 6, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I slide the oars under a shock chord going across the aft deck. The blades fit on either side of the hatch, and the oars run roughly parallel to the gunwales. I find they are more nearly out of the way there than any place else.

                    I'm an old fat man and I weigh a lot more than the empty hull, so where I sit influences trim and that, in turn, cascades into other effects. If I sail by myself and sit all the way aft, the bow cocks up and the boat develops a lee helm; if I sit well forward, the stern cocks up, part of the rudder comes out of the water, the center of effort moves forward, and I develop a lee helm too! But if I sit in the center of the boat, it is nicely balanced, if not as comfortable. I've gone off in a different direction now and use my Mixer as a fishing boat on a pond, but if I start sailing again, I'll add some sort of removable back rest.

                    Mixer is a great little boat. I hope you enjoy yours as much as I have enjoyed mine.

                    John T
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: wwbaginski
                    To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 12:39 PM
                    Subject: [Michalak] Re: Wojtek (oars length question)



                    Tom-

                    I think it was Jonh T speaking about 8'4" for Mixer, not me, BTW I'm
                    very curious about that Shaw and Tenney formula? What it tells? Are
                    any other formulas known?

                    -Wojtek


                    IMichalak@yahoogroups.com, "awellbalancedgun"
                    <awellbalancedgun@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Wojtek-
                    >
                    > I agree with your conclusion that the oars, although designed to
                    go
                    > in the cockpit, are in the way no matter how you store them.
                    That's
                    > why they stay in the car. I've seen pictures of oars lashed to
                    the
                    > aft deck and oar locks. But, it seems to me that this would spoil
                    > the comfortable corner I enjoy while at the helm since the oars
                    have
                    > to cut this corner to get under the shock cord across the deck. Do
                    > you have any photos of this?
                    >
                    > For this reason, I have considered storing the shafts in the tubes
                    > inlet into the flotation volumes - at least part of the oars will
                    be
                    > out of the way.
                    >
                    > How have you arrived at the 8'-4" length? Based on the Shaw and
                    > Tenney formula for 7:18 leverage?
                    >
                    > Thanks for your feedback!
                    >
                    > TJH





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