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Re: Center of effort shifting on a balance lug rig?

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  • Jason Stancil
    Thanks for everyones help. Heres what i m looking at doing: http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QF8QQSxvqMqA9T8lQ2uk5ItP1pqkQ7WfSPB-
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 3, 2004
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      Thanks for everyones help.
      Heres what i'm looking at doing:
      http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QF8QQSxvqMqA9T8lQ2uk5ItP1pqkQ7WfSPB-
      l2j9SFIFfRxBz7YyB8zzX96Qm9xDGh5MeDb_qiThgzsHHO6noVdh53CAhibZN811PTzf/
      lugger.bmp

      I know that link won't work, it's too big. It's under the files in
      the Michalak_Boats_Photo_Only group.....called lugger......yeah it's
      not a michalak boat but the rig is. Rig is to scale from a
      petesboat/caprice/martha jane....all the same i think.? The CE is
      dead on CLR in the file.

      What do you folks think?

      Thanks Again,
      JAson
    • David Davis
      ... It s also handy to be able to shift your board back ... designed point?? I streached Picara a foot but the main sail is as designed. Was considering a
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 4, 2004
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        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...>
        wrote:
        > Michalak is to balanced lugs as Bolger is to sprit rigs, so i
        > figured this would be a good place to ask. <snip>
        > Jason
        >
        > Hi, Jason:
        >
        It's also handy to be able to shift your board back
        > and forth a bit.
        >
        > Chuck
        >
        >
        >Chuck how far would you suggest moving the leeboard around the
        designed point?? I streached Picara a foot but the main sail is as
        designed. Was considering a pivot point at design point and one +
        6 inches from design point and one - 6 inches from the designed
        point. Too much ?? Too little??

        David Davis
      • Chuck Leinweber
        Hi, David: This is a good example of the kind of problems you get when you modify a plan. The designer wrestles with all these things in the beginning and when
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 4, 2004
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          Hi, David:

          This is a good example of the kind of problems you get when you modify a
          plan. The designer wrestles with all these things in the beginning and when
          one change is made, it alters everything else.

          The leeboard needs to be at the widest point of the hull so that it will be
          parallel to the flow of water around the boat. It also needs to be in the
          right place with respect to the center of effort of the sail area. Moving
          the board fore and aft will let you know how much you need to adjust the CE
          so that it works with the board in it's normal spot. When you sail the
          boat, you will be able to tell which way to go with the CE by noticing
          whether the tiller pulls you upwind or downwind. You want it to take you
          slightly upwind if you let go of it so that the boat will not sail off
          without you if you happen to fall out.

          If you lengthened the boat uniformly from one end to the other and placed
          the mast and the board proportionally, you should have no problem. I would
          not place the board in different positions except perhaps to pivot it on the
          same bolt toward the bow or the stern as much as 20 or 30% or so.
          Unfortunately, you can only pivot Jim's boards toward the rear.

          Chuck
          Chuck how far would you suggest moving the leeboard around the
          designed point?? I streached Picara a foot but the main sail is as
          designed. Was considering a pivot point at design point and one +
          6 inches from design point and one - 6 inches from the designed
          point. Too much ?? Too little??

          David Davis








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        • therishel
          ... mast step/partner back so far.....as i want it in the bow well and not in the cabin. ... What about adding a mizzen at the stern? I don t think you are
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 5, 2004
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            > I'm looking at swapping rigs on my boat but i can only move the
            mast step/partner back so far.....as i want it in the bow well and
            not in the cabin.
            >
            > Searching for a lug that has the CE close to where i need it but i
            > doubt i'll find a perfect match.......suggestions? I'm looking at
            > petesboat sail and the main off of caprice as the dimentions are
            > close to what i would like.......200ish sqft.

            What about adding a mizzen at the stern? I don't think you are going
            to get out of this successfully without calculating the CE on a
            number of different rigs, so why not draw up a rig with a balanced
            lug and a mizzen, calculate the CE of the entire sailplan, and adjust
            the mizzen size and placement to get the balance point that you need?

            Just a thought about another approach to balancing a sailplan.

            Tom
          • Jason Stancil
            ... going ... adjust ... need? ****************************** With less than 5 degrees mast rake i can get the petesboat/martha jane main to line up within 2
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 5, 2004
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              > What about adding a mizzen at the stern? I don't think you are
              going
              > to get out of this successfully without calculating the CE on a
              > number of different rigs, so why not draw up a rig with a balanced
              > lug and a mizzen, calculate the CE of the entire sailplan, and
              adjust
              > the mizzen size and placement to get the balance point that you
              need?
              ******************************
              With less than 5 degrees mast rake i can get the petesboat/martha
              jane main to line up within 2" of the designers sailplan centroidI
              did a scale blueprint and have triple checked it). The problem is
              the boom is 6 inches longer than the boat (protrudes 8" beyond the
              stern.......could trip up if i do too much dummy stuff.
              I believe i can fiddle that 2" out and if i still have lee helm
              could make my rudder an inch or to longer to back up the CLR....it's
              a keel boat.

              I'm almost done building my micro navigator and i calculated the
              cost of rigging for the chinese gaff cat yawl.......hardware alone
              will run 250 bucks(low end)! 24 blocks and alot of fairleads and
              over 250' of running lines. Thus my thougts of conversion. No matter
              how much i dream of cruising the old school lugger will do me fine
              98% of the time with only 4 blocks and 100' of lines......i can
              still run all the lines to the inside of the pilot house. i may(?)
              have to slide the hatch for 30 seconds to reef.....i'll do
              slab/jiffy reef style. Another reason for this idea is to encourage
              my impulse sails the chinese gaffer will not get rigged spur of the
              moment. My little dingy with a lug sail takes all of 60 seconds to
              step the mast, set the tack, raise the yard and reset the tack to
              go......I figure the big lug will take about 5 minutes as i'll stow
              it rigged and the mast is on a counterbalanced tabernacle.

              To see what i'm scemeing look in the files of Micalak photos only
              group. Called lugger.

              Jason
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