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Re: Flotation

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  • Mark
    I m with you, Teach. Good pour-in foam is well nigh impervious to water for lengthy periods, adheres to the surrounding surface and creates an incredible
    Message 1 of 25 , May 2, 2004
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      I'm with you, Teach. Good pour-in foam is well nigh impervious to water for lengthy
      periods, adheres to the surrounding surface and creates an incredible structural
      enhancement. With well filled and well sealed chambers, the only way moisture and rot
      spores can get get in is by penetrating from outside right on through the planking.

      If the boat is that water logged, I may still be holding on to that block of foam.
      Mark

      teachtech47 wrote:
      >
      > Alright group, I have been trying to follow this string, but I am not
      > sure I picked up on why you don't like foam filling the voids for
      > floatation? I think I would much rather have the positive fill of
      > foam in a sealed area than worry about leakage rotting something. In
      > the larsboat I am building, I filled the front and rear with foam.
      > After I used epoxy fillets and tape on all seams and epoxy coated the
      > wood. Now I don't have to worry about if I got some parts air tight
      > or not.>
    • Mark
      Flogging a little here, Chuck... You re right that water _might_ get in. I think it s most likely where the need for repair is clear. ( First step to dry
      Message 2 of 25 , May 2, 2004
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        Flogging a little here, Chuck...

        You're right that water _might_ get in. I think it's most likely where the need for repair
        is clear. ( First step to dry everything out. ) Five years for an owner built boat is
        pretty good value. Stacked against the other serious on the water hazards, foolproof
        positive flotation seems a plus.

        If a 'gator bites your boat in two, some of the foam will still be floating there to throw
        at him.
        Mark

        Chuck Leinweber wrote:
        >
        > Poured-in foam seals the chamber so that the water that gets in (Oh yes, it
        > will get in) has trouble getting out, and rot occurs in that damp
        > atmosphere. Ok, lots of boats rot, and any boat can be maintained so that
        > it does not rot, it's just that it is easier to keep that from happening if
        > you can dry the boat out between uses. If five years is enough for you,
        > don't worry about it.
        >
      • Chuck Leinweber
        Horses for courses, Mark. I figure that if your boat gets so damaged that the flotation chambers disintegrate, you have trouble way beyond the specter of
        Message 3 of 25 , May 2, 2004
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          Horses for courses, Mark. I figure that if your boat gets so damaged that
          the flotation chambers disintegrate, you have trouble way beyond the specter
          of sinking. Speaking of spores not getting into the sealed and foam filled
          chamber, they are already in there, just waiting for a bit of moisture. I
          have seen wood next to foam in boats, and it does not last well at all.
          However what you say about the great flotation and structural benefits are
          true.

          Chuck


          > Flogging a little here, Chuck...
          >
          > You're right that water _might_ get in. I think it's most likely where the
          need for repair
          > is clear. ( First step to dry everything out. ) Five years for an owner
          built boat is
          > pretty good value. Stacked against the other serious on the water
          hazards, foolproof
          > positive flotation seems a plus.
          >
          > If a 'gator bites your boat in two, some of the foam will still be
          floating there to throw
          > at him.
          > Mark
          >
          > Chuck Leinweber wrote:
          > >
          > > Poured-in foam seals the chamber so that the water that gets in (Oh yes,
          it
          > > will get in) has trouble getting out, and rot occurs in that damp
          > > atmosphere. Ok, lots of boats rot, and any boat can be maintained so
          that
          > > it does not rot, it's just that it is easier to keep that from happening
          if
          > > you can dry the boat out between uses. If five years is enough for you,
          > > don't worry about it.
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • teachtech47
          I am with you all the way! I sealed the spaces with epoxy, epoxy fillets, glass tape with epoxy. all on the inside. The outside is much the same. Epoxy the
          Message 4 of 25 , May 3, 2004
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            I am with you all the way! I sealed the spaces with epoxy, epoxy
            fillets, glass tape with epoxy. all on the inside. The outside is
            much the same. Epoxy the wood, epoxy fillets, glass tape with epoxy,
            and finally glass overall with epoxy. This is for a cartopper too!
            Any water that gets in and manages to stay for the couple of days
            between uses is welcome to a new home. If I have to build another
            one in a few years,,,,, well it give me something to plan for.




            > I'm with you, Teach. Good pour-in foam is well nigh impervious to
            water for lengthy
            > periods, adheres to the surrounding surface and creates an
            incredible structural
            > enhancement. With well filled and well sealed chambers, the only
            way moisture and rot
            > spores can get get in is by penetrating from outside right on
            through the planking.
            >
            > If the boat is that water logged, I may still be holding on to
            that block of foam.
            > Mark
            >
            > teachtech47 wrote:
            > >
            > > Alright group, I have been trying to follow this string, but I
            am not
            > > sure I picked up on why you don't like foam filling the voids for
            > > floatation? I think I would much rather have the positive fill
            of
            > > foam in a sealed area than worry about leakage rotting
            something. In
            > > the larsboat I am building, I filled the front and rear with
            foam.
            > > After I used epoxy fillets and tape on all seams and epoxy
            coated the
            > > wood. Now I don't have to worry about if I got some parts air
            tight
            > > or not.>
          • jhkohnen@boat-links.com
            Don t go boating in Columbia Slough and you won t have to worry about alligators, Mark. ;o) ... floating there to throw ... -- John
            Message 5 of 25 , May 3, 2004
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              Don't go boating in Columbia Slough and you won't have to worry about
              alligators, Mark. ;o)

              On Sun, 02 May 2004 22:08:01 -0700, Mark wrote:
              > ...
              > If a 'gator bites your boat in two, some of the foam will still be
              floating there to throw
              > at him.
              > ...

              --
              John <jkohnen@...>
              http://www.boat-links.com/
              What is more pleasant than a friendly little yacht, a long stretch of
              smooth water, a gentle breeze, the stars? <Billy Atkin>
            • Mark
              ... Right! There, I just wear a HAZMAT suit. Mark
              Message 6 of 25 , May 4, 2004
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                jhkohnen@... wrote:
                >
                > Don't go boating in Columbia Slough and you won't have to worry about
                > alligators, Mark. ;o)
                >

                Right! There, I just wear a HAZMAT suit.
                Mark
              • john ozolins
                Thanks for the replys. I already have the Coast Guard rules and specs (over 200 pages). Those rules pertain mainly to boat manufacturers, and primarily pertain
                Message 7 of 25 , Feb 21, 2008
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                  Thanks for the replys. I already have the Coast Guard
                  rules and specs (over 200 pages). Those rules pertain
                  mainly to boat manufacturers, and primarily pertain to
                  boats over 16' in length, and cause massive headaches
                  when trying to decipher. I have gone thru the
                  calculations using both foam and air chambers for
                  flotation. Since the boat is made of wood, that adds
                  to the flotation. By my calculations, as the boat is
                  wood, and of primarily of an open cockpit design, the
                  amount of foam, if any, is almost negligable. One CF
                  of foam provides 60.3 Lbs of flotation, and as my boat
                  is being designed for a 250 Lb. capacity, 4 CF of foam
                  is what I calculated as being needed, which is the
                  same as a air chamber. Somehow, this doesn,t seem
                  correct. In my design I have provided for 5 CF of
                  space for flotation.


                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
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                • Nels
                  ... In my design I have provided for 5 CF of ... In a wooden boat that size 2CF should be more than adequate. Don t forget if you and a passenger are wearing
                  Message 8 of 25 , Feb 21, 2008
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                    --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, john ozolins <jaozz@...> wrote:
                    In my design I have provided for 5 CF of
                    > space for flotation.
                    >
                    In a wooden boat that size 2CF should be more than adequate. Don't
                    forget if you and a passenger are wearing proper PFD's you only have
                    to float what is heavier than water in the boat (Keep in tied down).

                    Nels
                  • cpack
                    Hello John, My experience with floatation has been with canoes and kayaks. Based on this there are two considerations ( among others) that I find useful. (1)
                    Message 9 of 25 , Feb 21, 2008
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                      Hello John,
                      My experience with floatation has been with canoes and kayaks. Based on
                      this there are two considerations ( among others) that I find useful.
                      (1) The overall amount of flotation i.e. the boat will not sink with or
                      without the skipper.
                      (2) The location of the flotation as to stability when swamped and to assist
                      recovery.
                      In white water boats it is common to "fill the boat" with as much flotation
                      as possible to provide a high bouyancy, easy to right, and bail craft.
                      In boats used in calm waters, close to shore, there may be only enough
                      flotaion to float the boat to shore and recover there.
                      It is difficult to have too much flotation unless it makes the boat stable
                      upside down or some other odd occurance.
                      Bear in mind that air tanks can have hatches, ports or lids to provide
                      access and storage while foam never leaks and is very reliable even when
                      holed. Each has its advantages. A rule of thumb in small boats like these is
                      to use flotation( 62.5 pounds for fresh water per cubic foot) for the dry
                      weight of the craft and crew placed to give enough bouancy to float the
                      gunnels clear so the craft may be bailed dry.
                      Hope this helps.
                      Float safe,
                      Curtis .

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "john ozolins" <jaozz@...>
                      To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 3:47 PM
                      Subject: [Michalak] Flotation


                      > Thanks for the replys. I already have the Coast Guard
                      > rules and specs (over 200 pages). Those rules pertain
                      > mainly to boat manufacturers, and primarily pertain to
                      > boats over 16' in length, and cause massive headaches
                      > when trying to decipher. I have gone thru the
                      > calculations using both foam and air chambers for
                      > flotation. Since the boat is made of wood, that adds
                      > to the flotation. By my calculations, as the boat is
                      > wood, and of primarily of an open cockpit design, the
                      > amount of foam, if any, is almost negligable. One CF
                      > of foam provides 60.3 Lbs of flotation, and as my boat
                      > is being designed for a 250 Lb. capacity, 4 CF of foam
                      > is what I calculated as being needed, which is the
                      > same as a air chamber. Somehow, this doesn,t seem
                      > correct. In my design I have provided for 5 CF of
                      > space for flotation.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ____________________________________________________________________________________
                      > Be a better friend, newshound, and
                      > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
                      > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • rhaldridge
                      ... Keep in mind that you need to do more than just keep the boat afloat-- there has to be enough freeboard when swamped to allow you to bail the boat out. If
                      Message 10 of 25 , Feb 21, 2008
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                        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels" <arvent@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, john ozolins <jaozz@> wrote:
                        > In my design I have provided for 5 CF of
                        > > space for flotation.
                        > >
                        > In a wooden boat that size 2CF should be more than adequate. Don't
                        > forget if you and a passenger are wearing proper PFD's you only have
                        > to float what is heavier than water in the boat (Keep in tied down).
                        >

                        Keep in mind that you need to do more than just keep the boat afloat--
                        there has to be enough freeboard when swamped to allow you to bail the
                        boat out. If the boat doesn't float high enough, in any kind of chop,
                        water will come in as fast as you bail it out.

                        Proper placement of the flotation is also an issue. If too high, it
                        doesn't start working until the gunwales are awash. If too low, it
                        can contribute to instability when the boat is full of water.

                        Ray
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