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Re: [Michalak] Fatcat2 Dimensions

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  • Al
    Rear cabin bulkhead to mast step is 6 dead. The cockpit works out at 4 6. cockpit width is a minimum of 5 1 6/8 up to 6 at the rear cabin bulkhead. As
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 1, 2004
      Rear cabin bulkhead to mast step is 6' dead. The
      cockpit works out at 4'6. cockpit width is a minimum
      of 5'1 6/8 up to 6' at the rear cabin bulkhead. As
      read from the plans. Hope that helps.

      Al

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    • vexatious2001
      ... Twister has ... to ... Compromises have to be made to fit both a cabin and a cockpit into such a short hull. The AF3 also has a frame which one must
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 1, 2004
        --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "vicskiff" <john.ewing@s...> wrote:
        > When I received plans for Twister last week I was disappointed to
        > discover the cabin is only 5 ft. long. I e-mailed JM about it and,
        > although he indicated in his newsletter notes that that
        Twister "has
        > a cabin to sleep one or to hide two", he replied: "There is a big
        > opening in the bulkhead at about station 2 that you are supposed
        to
        > fit your feet through. Not many ways to sleep inside such a short
        > boat."
        >







        Compromises have to be made to fit both a cabin
        and a cockpit into such a short hull.

        The AF3 also has a frame which one must "stick" part of
        one's body through in order to sleep in the cabin. Jim
        suggests the feet, but as the bottom slopes upward towards
        the bow, I have slept with my head up there. That leaves
        about 3 inches of clearance for each ear. Not the most
        spacious of berths, but I prefer to not sleep "head down."

        I believe that it is similar to sleeping in one of those
        "one-man" backpacker tents.

        By the way, casual readers of the AF3 plans sometimes mistake
        this "frame" for a full bulkhead (Jim labels it a bulkhead)
        and sometimes conclude that the cabin is only about 5 1/2 feet
        long.

        When it comes to these short boats, I am thinking that one
        is better off "combining" the cockpit and cabin areas, either
        by having an open boat with a large cockpit that is converted
        into a cabin with a boom tent or such, or by the use of a
        "birdwatcher" cabin which pretty much eliminates the open
        cockpit. Or, at the cost of complication, weight and
        more expense, one can have a "raised" cockpit which allows extension
        of the sleeping space underneath it, as in the Micro.

        Either of the above also allows for better weight distribution;
        to have two or more people confined to the cocpit area of
        these short boats puts a lot of weight aft, sometimes causing
        trim problems.

        Bolger tried to get around this in the Cynthia J design by
        putting the deepest part of the hull under the cockpit; not
        an ideal solution in my opinion.

        I consider the AF3 to be either a "beach camper" for two, where
        everyone sleeps ashore in a tent, and the camping gear is
        stowed in the the cabin, off-setting some of the weight of the
        crew in the cockpit; or a solo "cruiser" for one, for someone
        who does not require a very large berth to sleep in.

        If I were to build another 16 foot sailboat for "overnighting,"
        I would seriously consider an open boat with a good boom tent
        (and bug screen) arangement, or a "birdwatcher" style boat.
        Incidently, with the birdwatcher-style, one can go even
        shorter, as in the 14 ft IMB and still have
        more cabin room than the pointy-bow 16 footers, but that cabin
        also has to double as cockpit.



        Max
      • Chuck Leinweber
        ... This was exactly my thinking when I chose to build the Ladybug. I think it was the large storage compartments fore and aft that sold me. I have figured
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 1, 2004
          > If I were to build another 16 foot sailboat for "overnighting,"
          > I would seriously consider an open boat with a good boom tent
          > (and bug screen) arangement, - Max

          This was exactly my thinking when I chose to build the Ladybug. I think it
          was the large storage compartments fore and aft that sold me. I have
          figured out a boom tent (mast tent, actually) arrangement and will start on
          that in a couple of weeks. By the time we hit Rend Lake, we should know
          whether it was a good idea or not.

          Chuck
        • John Ewing
          It s that aft storage compartment -- meant to shift crew weight forward, I believe -- that compresses the cockpit and cabin in Fatcat2 and similar designs. In
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 1, 2004
            It's that aft storage compartment -- meant to shift crew weight forward, I believe -- that compresses the cockpit and cabin in Fatcat2 and similar designs. In the same 15.5-ft. LOA and 6-ft. beam, Sow's Ear has a cabin with two compartments, one approximately 6'3" long and one 1'3". Plus a cockpit of nearly 5 ft. What about AF4: Could somebody give me the comparable figures there?

            As for Sow's Ear, if I were to accept it as non-planing (and thus limited to a hull speed not much over 5 knots), how is it likely to perform with my Honda 10? Karl Stambaugh's Redwing 18 is a longer (3 ft.) but heavier boat and a 10-horse 4-stroke is recommended. I asked Jim about this but his response assumed I would want to reach planing speeds.

            John

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: vexatious2001
            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 3:51 AM
            Subject: [Michalak] Re: Fatcat2 Dimensions / Space in general


            Compromises have to be made to fit both a cabin
            and a cockpit into such a short hull.

            The AF3 also has a frame which one must "stick" part of
            one's body through in order to sleep in the cabin. Jim
            suggests the feet, but as the bottom slopes upward towards
            the bow, I have slept with my head up there. That leaves
            about 3 inches of clearance for each ear. Not the most
            spacious of berths, but I prefer to not sleep "head down."

            I believe that it is similar to sleeping in one of those
            "one-man" backpacker tents.

            By the way, casual readers of the AF3 plans sometimes mistake
            this "frame" for a full bulkhead (Jim labels it a bulkhead)
            and sometimes conclude that the cabin is only about 5 1/2 feet
            long.

            When it comes to these short boats, I am thinking that one
            is better off "combining" the cockpit and cabin areas, either
            by having an open boat with a large cockpit that is converted
            into a cabin with a boom tent or such, or by the use of a
            "birdwatcher" cabin which pretty much eliminates the open
            cockpit. Or, at the cost of complication, weight and
            more expense, one can have a "raised" cockpit which allows extension
            of the sleeping space underneath it, as in the Micro.

            Either of the above also allows for better weight distribution;
            to have two or more people confined to the cocpit area of
            these short boats puts a lot of weight aft, sometimes causing
            trim problems.

            Bolger tried to get around this in the Cynthia J design by
            putting the deepest part of the hull under the cockpit; not
            an ideal solution in my opinion.

            I consider the AF3 to be either a "beach camper" for two, where
            everyone sleeps ashore in a tent, and the camping gear is
            stowed in the the cabin, off-setting some of the weight of the
            crew in the cockpit; or a solo "cruiser" for one, for someone
            who does not require a very large berth to sleep in.

            If I were to build another 16 foot sailboat for "overnighting,"
            I would seriously consider an open boat with a good boom tent
            (and bug screen) arangement, or a "birdwatcher" style boat.
            Incidently, with the birdwatcher-style, one can go even
            shorter, as in the 14 ft IMB and still have
            more cabin room than the pointy-bow 16 footers, but that cabin
            also has to double as cockpit.


            Max






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          • vexatious2001
            ... forward, I believe -- that compresses the cockpit and cabin in Fatcat2 and similar designs. In the same 15.5-ft. LOA and 6-ft. beam, Sow s Ear has a cabin
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 1, 2004
              --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, John Ewing <john.ewing@s...> wrote:
              > It's that aft storage compartment -- meant to shift crew weight
              forward, I believe -- that compresses the cockpit and cabin in
              Fatcat2 and similar designs. In the same 15.5-ft. LOA and 6-ft.
              beam, Sow's Ear has a cabin with two compartments, one approximately
              6'3" long and one 1'3". Plus a cockpit of nearly 5 ft. What about
              AF4: Could somebody give me the comparable figures there?



              Certainly the aft compartment takes-up space, but it
              also serves as flotation for self-rescuing.

              And it does provide some alternative stowage for things
              that would other wise have to be in the cabin.

              AF4 has about 8 feet of cabin, 6 feet of cockpit,
              and about 2 feet of motor well and 2 feet of forward
              well.

              The very forward end of the AF4 cabin is awfully narrow.


              >




              > As for Sow's Ear, if I were to accept it as non-planing (and thus
              limited to a hull speed not much over 5 knots), how is it likely to
              perform with my Honda 10? Karl Stambaugh's Redwing 18 is a longer (3
              ft.) but heavier boat and a 10-horse 4-stroke is recommended. I
              asked Jim about this but his response assumed I would want to reach
              planing speeds.
              >
              > John
              >






              I think 10 would almost plane the Sows Ear; 10 hp will barely
              plane my AF4, albiet at almost full throttle, with a loaded
              wieght of about 1250 pounds.

              The load had best not be
              concentrated aft.

              The small compartment in the cabin of the Sows ear, is, in my
              opinion, too small to be segregated-off, and I would eliminate
              that bulkhead.

              Also, the motor well of the Sows Ear is very small; too small
              for the amount of gasoline that I would carry, which would
              then end up in the cockpit.

              An efficient outboard may not require the carrying of such amounts
              of gasoline.


              Max
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