Re: G'day , Intro
- Hi Dave
I did not run the cabin design by Jim. When I communicated with him
before buying the plans I was asking about a larger version say 25 or
28 feet and he was not encouraging about that. I did not pursue it
further. The Grande does what I need done.
> Steve if your there , did you run it by Jim Michalak about changing
> the design before you started building and if so what did he say
> David W
Given that I don't want or need planing , and displacement is what I really need , a bit more weight is fine , The Redwing 18 had a draught of 12" and the 21 a draught of 16" , the places I want to go will be fine with that , all I really want is a boat that will fit my wife and my self for a week or two at a time , I don't really want it to be a camping boat , I want it to be a little more than that , I want some thing set up with a bed [ long enough for me ] a porta - potti , galley and room to put up a temporary enclosed area for a shower , on deck is fine , enough room to move around on deck to fish and crab , slow is fine , the most unprotected place I want to go is the Whitsunday islands , and I'm not real sure I want to go there any more as the place is a circus now days
Any one have any idea as to what sort of a keel on the AF4G ? Will extra weight low add to the stability ?
Any one know of a easily home made fully opening window suitable for the AF4G ? Where I am and where I'll be taking the boat is rather warm and I'll need plenty of air flow but I'll also need to screen for insects , where I'll be is full of mosquitos and sandflies
I'd also like to mount permanent water storage tanks
Yeah , I know I'm redesigning the wheel but I need to work out if the AF4G is the boat for me or should I be looking at the Redwing 21 or 23 or maybe the Hercules http://www.glen-l.com/designs/cruiser/hercules.html
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 3:33 AM
Subject: [Michalak] Re: G'day , Intro
>From my experience it doesn't take a lot of additional weight to turn
a low powered planing boat into a displacement boat.
As I said, my bare PK planed easily and with very little transition
or wake with an old 15 HP motor with a total 2 person crew weight
under 400. Topped out about 11-12 mph.
The addition of Mr. Lesh prevented the boat from getting on plane
with the 15.
He probably weighs around 225 lbs. (Thanks or Sorry, Terry, depending
on how close I came.)
That 225 is about the minimum additional camping gear weight we would
carry for a couple of days cruising so I knew the 15 was not going to
be sufficient to plane the PK fully loaded for cruising.
(Terry didn't know it at the time, but he was my test "Ballast".)
It would be my best guess that the additional amenities I added in
building (to what would have been just a 20 foot AF4) added about 300
Some of that was in the ¾" bottom, that I feel is almost a necessity
for this boat. The 4"additional cabin height and cabin seats/bed
added some, and the finished storage compartments also added weight,
but overall the modifications didn't add a Whole lot of weight..
Now, it is the much heavier 33HP motor and additional fuel that it
requires that has added much more weight. (All of that weight in the
The loaded waterline of my PK is now about 8" at the stern,
tapering to the heal of the bow forward.
It floated with the chines barely submerged when I first launched it
with the 15.
It would be my guess that a properly trimmed AF4G would actually draw
a little less than my PK does now. But the OB is going to be the
lowest part on both boats.
My best guesstimate/calculation is that my PK will sink about 1" for
every 300# additional weight. Because of the greater hull volume, it
will take more than that to sink an AF4g an inch.
(Maybe some of the more technical types can run some numbers for the
AF4g and let us know for sure)
I hadn't seen the 21' Redwing Pilothouse when I began my PK. The
slight V bottom really looks nice and would have several advantages
over the flat bottom. The Very Low cabin and displacement hull were
two reasons I decided against the 18' Redwing, but it sure looks
Jim suggested that I build the first Grande when I built my PK, but
the 22' sounded a little intimidating to me as I work alone, outside,
and wasn't going to have any help moving the boat or turning it.
My original thoughts were of a 16' cruiser, so even the 20 was a lot
It is my Opinion that the Pilothouse version of the Grande is going
to add too much weight to allow it to plane without a fairly large
As a displacement cruiser the Pilothouse Grande should be quite nice
The cabin height of the regular Grande is just about the same as my
raised cabin version of a 20. (About 44" at the main cabin bulkhead.)
I have found that height to be just marginal if cabin seats are
With the flat bottom windage from the cabin might be a problem for
the AF4gp, but the additional weight of the cabin should help with
trim and have more boat in the water forward than my PK.
The heal of the bow might be submerge and cause some problems
We'll just have to wait and see how Steve's boat behaves.
So far it is Looking pretty good and at the rate he is going we
shouldn't have to wait long.
I think the Ease of Construction of Jim's boats has a lot going for
them when decision time comes.
Many of the others require a lot more work with framing.
--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "David & Shirley Wallace"
> The messages started coming through just after I made my Intro
post , must of been a glitch some down the line , I some times have
trouble getting stuff through from Yahoo
> Had a look at the pictures of your PK-20 , I like it , actually I
like all boats along those lines , The Redwing 18 by Stambaugh first
caught my eye and when I saw the 21 Pilothouse version I was in
love , it was not long after that I saw the Michalak designs and
noted the similarities between the Redwing 18 and the AF4 , so that
started me thinking about putting a pilothouse on a AF4G , and the
same day I ordered the plans for the AF4G I saw the web site of
Steve Bosquette and that had me even more interested , I'd really
like to know how much weight the modifications he's made will add to
the base plan , now I realise the added weight will make a
difference to planing but as I originally was just looking for a
displacement cruiser and only want or need displacement speeds that
isn't a real worry
> Any one know what the draught of the AF4G is ?
> David Wallace
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: antec007
> To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 1:27 AM
> Subject: [Michalak] Re: G'day , Intro
> As for you not getting messages on your email.
> Go up to the "Edit My Membership" and open it.
> Make sure the right email is chosen and that you have chosen the
> way you want to receive your messages. Either individual or daily
> you want them to come to your email.
> Then, if you have made any changes, click on Save Changes.
> It sounds like you are going through the list of boats many of us
> Be careful if you start adding a lot of weight to any of them,
> particularly Jim's Power cruisers.
> The Only way to get good performance with little HP is to build a
> lightweight boat.
> I designed my PK-20 from the AF4-18, and added only a little
> additional weight, but it has effected the performance
> My PK was able to plane nicely at about 11mph with an old 15HP
> before I added all the amenities. Now it Requires nearly all of
> 33 HP of the motor I was forced to buy to get it up on plane.
> Some of the boats listed there are pure displacement boats and
> be bothered by a little extra weight, but the lightweight planing
> boats should be kept that way or you will need to get a much
> motor and the boat will not tread so lightly as designed.
> Pat Patteson
> Molalla, Oregon
> PK-20 Designer (Still like saying that.)
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "David Wallace" <swallace@c...>
> > G'day , my name is David Wallace , I'm in Central Queensland in
> > Australia , I just joined a few days ago , although I only seem
> > able to read the posts on the web so far , not getting any
> > my email yet ?
> > I've just taken delivery of the plans for the Jonsboat , I
> > them through Chuck at Duckworks , this will be my first
> > design , I've also ordered the plans for the AF4 Grande [ also
> > through Chuck ] , actually it was just after this that I saw
> > site of Steve Bosquette for the Misser , it looks like a really
> > idea , I had some thing similar in mind when I ordered the AF4G
> > plans , I just wanted to see the plans to see how it would work
> out ,
> > so I had to buy them of course , I've been looking at the Karl
> > Stambaugh design Redwing 21 pilothouse and also the 23 and
> > like them but the only thing that worried me was the weight ,
> > AF4G with a Pilothouse looks like it will be considerably
> > but I don't have to make a final decision for some time as I
> > have several other projects to finish first ,
> > Steve if your there , did you run it by Jim Michalak about
> > the design before you started building and if so what did he
> > Regards
> > David W
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