Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

epoxy and tape

Expand Messages
  • dougann2000
    I have limited experience with epoxy and fiberglass tape, I have taped the butt joints on the sides of my Shantuese. This weekend I put the bottom plywood on
    Message 1 of 14 , May 26, 2003
      I have limited experience with epoxy and fiberglass tape, I have
      taped the butt joints on the sides of my Shantuese. This weekend
      I put the bottom plywood on and soon will be ready to cover the
      chines with epoxy and tape. My question is, how do I do this without
      my epoxy getting past the workable stage? Should I do it all at once
      (16 feet!)? I know I should wet the ply with epoxy, then start putting
      the tape on and wetting it out then I want to put another layer of
      glass over that. Should I do it three feet at a time (I don't think
      so)? I need some tips before I make a mess. Thanks, Doug.
    • Chuck Leinweber
      Doug: Here is how I do it: I mix only small batches of Epoxy - usually two-four pumps - at a time. Then I start at one end of the joint, and work to the
      Message 2 of 14 , May 26, 2003
        Doug:

        Here is how I do it: I mix only small batches of Epoxy - usually two-four
        pumps - at a time. Then I start at one end of the joint, and work to the
        other. I keep mixing new batches as needed. When I get to the end and I
        want to add another layer, I go back to the beginning, mixing more batches
        as I go. This all begins with prewetting. If I am doing inside S&G, I wet,
        fillet, tape, tape again (if needed) and fill weave. Each time starting at
        the beginning. Is this clear? I'm lots better at doing than explaining
        (which is not saying much).

        Chuck



        > I have limited experience with epoxy and fiberglass tape, I have
        > taped the butt joints on the sides of my Shantuese. This weekend
        > I put the bottom plywood on and soon will be ready to cover the
        > chines with epoxy and tape. My question is, how do I do this without
        > my epoxy getting past the workable stage? Should I do it all at once
        > (16 feet!)? I know I should wet the ply with epoxy, then start putting
        > the tape on and wetting it out then I want to put another layer of
        > glass over that. Should I do it three feet at a time (I don't think
        > so)? I need some tips before I make a mess. Thanks, Doug.
        >
      • yahn101a
        I use small batches too. I lay the cloth on the bare wood first and then brush on the epoy. There is no problem with soaking into the wood well. I don t know
        Message 3 of 14 , May 26, 2003
          I use small batches too. I lay the cloth on the bare wood first and
          then brush on the epoy. There is no problem with soaking into the
          wood well. I don't know the method by which it was determined that
          wetting the wood first was better. I cut my strips across the end of
          the roll. About four feet long. Then they are easy to handle. I give
          them about a 1 to 2 inch overlap at the ends.
          Steve Yahn
        • dougann2000
          ... Steve and Chuck, Using small batches sounds like a good idea. If I put two layers of glass on, can I put on one complete (16 ), and then go back and start
          Message 4 of 14 , May 26, 2003
            ---
            Steve and Chuck,
            Using small batches sounds like a good idea. If I put two layers
            of glass on, can I put on one complete (16'), and then go back and
            start the other layer? or should I bring them both as I go? I'm
            thinking it might take me 30 minutes to put on one layer. By that
            time the first part would be past working. I guess what I'm trying to
            ask is, will the new batch work over the 30 min. old batch? Thanks
            for your help, Doug.



            In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "yahn101a" <syahn45@e...> wrote:
            > I use small batches too. I lay the cloth on the bare wood first and
            > then brush on the epoy. There is no problem with soaking into the
            > wood well. I don't know the method by which it was determined that
            > wetting the wood first was better. I cut my strips across the end
            of
            > the roll. About four feet long. Then they are easy to handle. I
            give
            > them about a 1 to 2 inch overlap at the ends.
            > Steve Yahn
          • dougann2000
            ... I read your post again and now understand that I can complete the tape joint and go back and add another layer. I m going to try this in a few days, if you
            Message 5 of 14 , May 26, 2003
              ---Chuck,
              I read your post again and now understand that I can complete
              the tape joint and go back and add another layer. I'm going to try
              this in a few days, if you don't hear from me , I may be under the
              tape and can't get loose. Thanks again, Doug.


              In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
              > Doug:
              >
              > Here is how I do it: I mix only small batches of Epoxy - usually
              two-four
              > pumps - at a time. Then I start at one end of the joint, and work
              to the
              > other. I keep mixing new batches as needed. When I get to the end
              and I
              > want to add another layer, I go back to the beginning, mixing more
              batches
              > as I go. This all begins with prewetting. If I am doing inside
              S&G, I wet,
              > fillet, tape, tape again (if needed) and fill weave. Each time
              starting at
              > the beginning. Is this clear? I'm lots better at doing than
              explaining
              > (which is not saying much).
              >
              > Chuck
              >
              >
              >
              > > I have limited experience with epoxy and fiberglass tape, I have
              > > taped the butt joints on the sides of my Shantuese. This weekend
              > > I put the bottom plywood on and soon will be ready to cover the
              > > chines with epoxy and tape. My question is, how do I do this
              without
              > > my epoxy getting past the workable stage? Should I do it all at
              once
              > > (16 feet!)? I know I should wet the ply with epoxy, then start
              putting
              > > the tape on and wetting it out then I want to put another layer of
              > > glass over that. Should I do it three feet at a time (I don't
              think
              > > so)? I need some tips before I make a mess. Thanks, Doug.
              > >
            • yahn101a
              I would lay down and epoxy the entire first layer and then go back and put on the second coat while the first layer is wet or sticky. All my experiance is with
              Message 6 of 14 , May 26, 2003
                I would lay down and epoxy the entire first layer and then go back
                and put on the second coat while the first layer is wet or sticky.
                All my experiance is with WEST epoxy, so I base my comments on this.
                Good Luck
                Steve Yahn
                ---
                In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "dougann2000" <dougann2000@y...> wrote:
                > ---
                > Steve and Chuck,
                > Using small batches sounds like a good idea. If I put two
                layers
                > of glass on, can I put on one complete (16'), and then go back and
                > start the other layer? or should I bring them both as I go? I'm
                > thinking it might take me 30 minutes to put on one layer. By that
                > time the first part would be past working. I guess what I'm trying
                to
                > ask is, will the new batch work over the 30 min. old batch? Thanks
                > for your help, Doug.
                >
                >
                >
                > In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "yahn101a" <syahn45@e...> wrote:
                > > I use small batches too. I lay the cloth on the bare wood first
                and
                > > then brush on the epoy. There is no problem with soaking into the
                > > wood well. I don't know the method by which it was determined
                that
                > > wetting the wood first was better. I cut my strips across the end
                > of
                > > the roll. About four feet long. Then they are easy to handle. I
                > give
                > > them about a 1 to 2 inch overlap at the ends.
                > > Steve Yahn
              • ibelucky2002
                ... you ... everywhere. ... you ... epoxy ... to a ... nicely, ... lay on ... the ... might ... third ... make ... Doug, I agree completely with Rick and
                Message 7 of 14 , May 26, 2003
                  --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, sctree <sctree@d...> wrote:
                  > Like in so many other things experience is the great teacher, but
                  > patience and neatness really helps. Work as cleanly and neatly as
                  you
                  > can, once epoxy starts dripping and smearing it will soon be
                  everywhere.
                  > Running an outside corner tape is the easiest. On an inside corner
                  you
                  > usually want a fillet under the tape. Getting the filler thickened
                  epoxy
                  > mixed just right and out of the mixing cup, laid onto the joint and
                  > spread uniformly is the big trick. Go along building your fillet 6"
                  to a
                  > foot at a batch, cleaning the excess as you go and smoothing it
                  nicely,
                  > by the time you get to the end, the fillet will be plenty firm to
                  lay on
                  > a dry tape and wet it onto the fillet (unless you're working out in
                  the
                  > hot sun then it may be rock hard). If the fillet is too soft you
                  might
                  > squish and distort it, too hard is not so much of a problem if it's
                  > smooth so that the tape can lay down without air bubbles. Then a
                  third
                  > pass for your second tape. Get this one smooth enough and you can
                  > eliminate sanding or grinding.
                  >
                  > Again, experience will come quickly.
                  > Is there some shorter joints you can do first? Might be worth it to
                  make
                  > some scrap panels to join for a trial run......
                  >
                  > Rick

                  Doug,

                  I agree completely with Rick and Chuck. I just finished glassing my
                  first boat. The only real problems I had was the resin kicking off
                  early. DO NOT GLASS IN THE SUN!! Make sure you mix small batches and
                  watch the drips. If it starts to kick off in the pot, toss it and
                  get some new epoxy. Glassing is easy - sanding out the lumps is a
                  major pain and very time consuming.

                  Good Luck,

                  Doug Day
                • sctree
                  Like in so many other things experience is the great teacher, but patience and neatness really helps. Work as cleanly and neatly as you can, once epoxy starts
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 26, 2003
                    Like in so many other things experience is the great teacher, but
                    patience and neatness really helps. Work as cleanly and neatly as you
                    can, once epoxy starts dripping and smearing it will soon be everywhere.
                    Running an outside corner tape is the easiest. On an inside corner you
                    usually want a fillet under the tape. Getting the filler thickened epoxy
                    mixed just right and out of the mixing cup, laid onto the joint and
                    spread uniformly is the big trick. Go along building your fillet 6" to a
                    foot at a batch, cleaning the excess as you go and smoothing it nicely,
                    by the time you get to the end, the fillet will be plenty firm to lay on
                    a dry tape and wet it onto the fillet (unless you're working out in the
                    hot sun then it may be rock hard). If the fillet is too soft you might
                    squish and distort it, too hard is not so much of a problem if it's
                    smooth so that the tape can lay down without air bubbles. Then a third
                    pass for your second tape. Get this one smooth enough and you can
                    eliminate sanding or grinding.

                    Again, experience will come quickly.
                    Is there some shorter joints you can do first? Might be worth it to make
                    some scrap panels to join for a trial run......

                    Rick

                    dougann2000 wrote:

                    > ---
                    > Steve and Chuck,
                    > Using small batches sounds like a good idea. If I put two layers
                    > of glass on, can I put on one complete (16'), and then go back and
                    > start the other layer? or should I bring them both as I go? I'm
                    > thinking it might take me 30 minutes to put on one layer. By that
                    > time the first part would be past working. I guess what I'm trying to
                    > ask is, will the new batch work over the 30 min. old batch? Thanks
                    > for your help, Doug.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "yahn101a" <syahn45@e...> wrote:
                    > > I use small batches too. I lay the cloth on the bare wood first and
                    > > then brush on the epoy. There is no problem with soaking into the
                    > > wood well. I don't know the method by which it was determined that
                    > > wetting the wood first was better. I cut my strips across the end
                    > of
                    > > the roll. About four feet long. Then they are easy to handle. I
                    > give
                    > > them about a 1 to 2 inch overlap at the ends.
                    > > Steve Yahn
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=251812.3170658.4537139.1512248/D=egroupweb/S=1705884090:HM/A=1564416/R=0/*http://www.netflix.com/Default?mqso=60164797&partid=3170658>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > Michalak-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                    > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Chuck Leinweber
                    Doug: You should have no problem is the epoxy is still soft, and it will be after 30 minutes. An hour would not be too long. You can add another coat the
                    Message 9 of 14 , May 26, 2003
                      Doug:

                      You should have no problem is the epoxy is still soft, and it will be after
                      30 minutes. An hour would not be too long. You can add another coat the
                      next day, but you need to do a little sanding to get a good bond.

                      Chuck


                      > Steve and Chuck,
                      > Using small batches sounds like a good idea. If I put two layers
                      > of glass on, can I put on one complete (16'), and then go back and
                      > start the other layer? or should I bring them both as I go? I'm
                      > thinking it might take me 30 minutes to put on one layer. By that
                      > time the first part would be past working. I guess what I'm trying to
                      > ask is, will the new batch work over the 30 min. old batch? Thanks
                      > for your help, Doug.
                    • Chuck Leinweber
                      ... Actually, Doug, there are some tricks to that too: Heat and scrapers. Here is a picture of me scraping behind a heat gun on the inside of a canoe
                      Message 10 of 14 , May 26, 2003
                        <snip>
                        > Glassing is easy - sanding out the lumps is a
                        > major pain and very time consuming.
                        >
                        > Doug Day

                        Actually, Doug, there are some tricks to that too: Heat and scrapers. Here
                        is a picture of me scraping behind a heat gun on the inside of a canoe I
                        made last year.
                        http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/projects/lapstrake/DSC00039.jpg
                        The heat softens the epoxy, and the scraper will take of big lumps all at
                        once. Easy peasy.

                        Chuck
                      • Lincoln Ross
                        My guess is you re ok for a few hours, until the blush (if any) appears. And if the blush appears you can wipe it off with water, dry thoroughly, and proceed,
                        Message 11 of 14 , May 28, 2003
                          My guess is you're ok for a few hours, until the blush (if any)
                          appears. And if the blush appears you can wipe it off with water, dry
                          thoroughly, and proceed, unless it's been a couple of days or more, in
                          which case you might want to sand. According to RAKA instructions you
                          can still get good adhesion without sanding for what I remember as a
                          couple of days. No need to still be able to work the first layer. But be
                          careful about the blush, unless you've spent big bucks on non blushing
                          epoxy.
                          P.S. It's best to use stuff that sets up pretty slow, like maybe still
                          usable for 45 minutes or an hour. But then you have to be patient
                          afterwards unless you have a way to get the boat pretty warm overnight
                          (which might make bubbles anyway).

                          >Doug wrote:
                          >---
                          >Steve and Chuck,
                          > Using small batches sounds like a good idea. If I put two layers
                          >of glass on, can I put on one complete (16'), and then go back and
                          >start the other layer? or should I bring them both as I go? I'm
                          >thinking it might take me 30 minutes to put on one layer. By that
                          >time the first part would be past working. I guess what I'm trying to
                          >ask is, will the new batch work over the 30 min. old batch? Thanks
                          >for your help, Doug.
                          >
                        • dougann2000
                          ... I am using RAKA epoxy and it sounds like most epoxy systems allow plenty of time to put a new batch over an old one and have it bond well. I ll watch for
                          Message 12 of 14 , May 28, 2003
                            ---Lincoln and Craig,
                            I am using RAKA epoxy and it sounds like most epoxy systems
                            allow plenty of time to put a new batch over an old one and have it
                            bond well. I'll watch for the blush. Thanks to all for the input, I
                            think I'll stop worrying and keep on building! More later, Doug.



                            In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Lincoln Ross <lincolnr@r...> wrote:
                            > My guess is you're ok for a few hours, until the blush (if any)
                            > appears. And if the blush appears you can wipe it off with water,
                            dry
                            > thoroughly, and proceed, unless it's been a couple of days or more,
                            in
                            > which case you might want to sand. According to RAKA instructions
                            you
                            > can still get good adhesion without sanding for what I remember as
                            a
                            > couple of days. No need to still be able to work the first layer.
                            But be
                            > careful about the blush, unless you've spent big bucks on non
                            blushing
                            > epoxy.
                            > P.S. It's best to use stuff that sets up pretty slow, like maybe
                            still
                            > usable for 45 minutes or an hour. But then you have to be patient
                            > afterwards unless you have a way to get the boat pretty warm
                            overnight
                            > (which might make bubbles anyway).
                            >
                            > >Doug wrote:
                            > >---
                            > >Steve and Chuck,
                            > > Using small batches sounds like a good idea. If I put two
                            layers
                            > >of glass on, can I put on one complete (16'), and then go back and
                            > >start the other layer? or should I bring them both as I go? I'm
                            > >thinking it might take me 30 minutes to put on one layer. By that
                            > >time the first part would be past working. I guess what I'm trying
                            to
                            > >ask is, will the new batch work over the 30 min. old batch? Thanks
                            > >for your help, Doug.
                            > >
                          • David Hahn
                            Hi Doug, I will put in a quick two cents worth about the tape and epoxy as I had a lot of trouble when I did my first boat (Bateau V12). So much trouble that
                            Message 13 of 14 , May 31, 2003
                              Hi Doug,
                              I will put in a quick two cents worth about the tape and epoxy as I
                              had a lot of trouble when I did my first boat (Bateau V12). So much
                              trouble that I didn't finish it the first summer, and seeing that it
                              was goobered up I built a Bateau Cheap Canoe for our campout/reunion
                              that year. The epoxy instructions that come with the Cheap Canoe are
                              really pretty good, and helped a lot. I built my CC 15' long, so I
                              had some long seams. I precut all the tape for the inside seams and
                              then mixed up some cool epoxy with filler (probably 6 pumps of resin,
                              3 hardener)and put it in a heavy duty plastic bag. Cutting a hole in
                              the corner of the sack makes the whole thing into a 'cake icing
                              applicator'. With glove on, you just squish the thickened goo into
                              the seam. When the bag is empty, put the tape onto the new fillet,
                              then either paint a topcoat of clear epoxy or go onto the next one.
                              It is really quick and you can put down a lot of tape in 30 minutes.
                              The fillets come out even and pretty smooth. As for sanding, go to
                              Harbor Freight or Wallmart and get a side grinder - angle
                              grinder....what welders use to prep welds and clean up spatter
                              after. But don't use the regular grind wheel. Find a sandpaper
                              flapper wheel. This works really well for taking off goops, hard
                              knots of dried, thickened epoxy, and rebellious tape that sticks up.
                              You have great control with this. Best of luck,

                              Dave Hahn
                            • Luke S
                              An angle grinder is my favorite boat building tool. Luke S. ... From: David Hahn To: Sent: Saturday, May 31,
                              Message 14 of 14 , May 31, 2003
                                An angle grinder is my favorite boat building tool.

                                Luke S.
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "David Hahn" <delta531@...>
                                To: <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 10:25 PM
                                Subject: [Michalak] Re: epoxy and tape


                                > Hi Doug,
                                > I will put in a quick two cents worth about the tape and epoxy as I
                                > had a lot of trouble when I did my first boat (Bateau V12). So much
                                > trouble that I didn't finish it the first summer, and seeing that it
                                > was goobered up I built a Bateau Cheap Canoe for our campout/reunion
                                > that year. The epoxy instructions that come with the Cheap Canoe are
                                > really pretty good, and helped a lot. I built my CC 15' long, so I
                                > had some long seams. I precut all the tape for the inside seams and
                                > then mixed up some cool epoxy with filler (probably 6 pumps of resin,
                                > 3 hardener)and put it in a heavy duty plastic bag. Cutting a hole in
                                > the corner of the sack makes the whole thing into a 'cake icing
                                > applicator'. With glove on, you just squish the thickened goo into
                                > the seam. When the bag is empty, put the tape onto the new fillet,
                                > then either paint a topcoat of clear epoxy or go onto the next one.
                                > It is really quick and you can put down a lot of tape in 30 minutes.
                                > The fillets come out even and pretty smooth. As for sanding, go to
                                > Harbor Freight or Wallmart and get a side grinder - angle
                                > grinder....what welders use to prep welds and clean up spatter
                                > after. But don't use the regular grind wheel. Find a sandpaper
                                > flapper wheel. This works really well for taking off goops, hard
                                > knots of dried, thickened epoxy, and rebellious tape that sticks up.
                                > You have great control with this. Best of luck,
                                >
                                > Dave Hahn
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > Michalak-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.