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Re: [Michalak] Re: Re: special requests/ Rudder hardware

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  • Chuck Leinweber
    Farmed them out. I will know how much to charge when I get the bill from the foundry. I m looking forward to seeing more of your Chebacco, Richard Chuck
    Message 1 of 21 , Jan 9, 2002
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      Farmed them out. I will know how much to charge when I get the bill from
      the foundry. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your Chebacco, Richard

      Chuck


      > So, Chuck, did you cast these yourself, or make the pattern and farm
      > it out?
      >
      > How much are you charging?
      >
      > Took lot's of pictures when I cast the cheek plates for the blocks
      > I'm making. I'll take more as I machine the parts, look for it in the
      > next issue of Chebacco.
    • orpdh
      1. We use the Photos section for photos. 2. We use the Files sections for files. Examples would be building tips with folders for epoxy, scarfing, sail
      Message 2 of 21 , Jan 10, 2002
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        1. We use the Photos section for photos.

        2. We use the Files sections for files. Examples would be building
        tips with folders for epoxy, scarfing, sail making, problems
        encountered with each particular boat design and the solution that
        was used, etc.
      • jmbell1
        AMEN! The photos section is really much more efficient for storing and viewing images. Good suggestion. JB
        Message 3 of 21 , Jan 10, 2002
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          AMEN! The photos section is really much more efficient for storing
          and viewing images.

          Good suggestion.

          JB

          --- In Michalak@y..., "orpdh" <petehodges@y...> wrote:
          > 1. We use the Photos section for photos.
          >
          > 2. We use the Files sections for files. Examples would be building
          > tips with folders for epoxy, scarfing, sail making, problems
          > encountered with each particular boat design and the solution that
          > was used, etc.
        • Ken Abrahams
          Wish list: Sailing version of AF4. Must plane with 10 hp but can sail with a simple Sunfish type rig. Doesn t have to be a good sailer. Reason; Our club is
          Message 4 of 21 , Jan 10, 2002
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            Wish list: Sailing version of AF4. Must plane with 10 hp but can sail with a simple Sunfish type rig. Doesn't have to be a good sailer. Reason; Our club is for sailboats only so an AF4 with a sail rig would qualify as a sailboat.
            Ken
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Chuck Leinweber
            To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 5:09 PM
            Subject: Re: [Michalak] special requests?


            Just a suggestion, Max. In case Jim is lurking (how could he resist,
            really) Why don't we do a wish list thing - Wish for boats that Jim might
            design one day.

            I wish Jim would design an AF4 Super-Grande. Say about thirty feet.
            Something minimally liveaboard. Barring that, how about a multichine AF4 -
            a boat as handy as the original, but with a bit better handling at a bit
            higher speed. Similar to a SkiffAmerica, but simpler.

            I'll bet you other guys have some ideas too.

            Chuck

            >
            > Any other requests?
            >
            > Max
            >
            >



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          • vexatious2001
            ... sail with a simple Sunfish type rig. Doesn t have to be a good sailer. Reason; Our club is for sailboats only so an AF4 with a sail rig would qualify as
            Message 5 of 21 , Jan 10, 2002
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              --- In Michalak@y..., "Ken Abrahams" <abrahams@s...> wrote:
              > Wish list: Sailing version of AF4. Must plane with 10 hp but can
              sail with a simple Sunfish type rig. Doesn't have to be a good
              sailer. Reason; Our club is for sailboats only so an AF4 with a sail
              rig would qualify as a sailboat.
              > Ken
              > ----- Original Message -----
              >

              Actually, it already exists, as long as you don't mind
              traveling at displacement speeds.

              Norms Boat

              Now, if you want a planing motor sailer, thats something
              altogether different, although Jim has done at least
              one;

              Petes Boat

              24 feet, lug-rigged, with 60 hp.

              Max
            • jmbell1
              I don t see why putting the rig from Norm s Boat on AF4 wouldn t work. It would not be all that great a sailer with due to the large transom dragging and
              Message 6 of 21 , Jan 10, 2002
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                I don't see why putting the rig from Norm's Boat on AF4 wouldn't
                work. It would not be all that great a sailer with due to the large
                transom dragging and creating turbulence. I would want to make more
                waterproof spaces in case of knock down, though. The weight of the
                engine up high in the stern may be a problem.

                I get it a lot of comments relative to my boat appearing to be a
                sailboat. People seem surprised that it is exclusively a motor boat.

                Here's a thought: build one and stick a mast in it but never build
                the rest of the sailing rig and call it a motorsailer. They'll never
                know!

                JB


                --- In Michalak@y..., "vexatious2001" <cadbury@s...> wrote:
                > --- In Michalak@y..., "Ken Abrahams" <abrahams@s...> wrote:
                > > Wish list: Sailing version of AF4. Must plane with 10 hp but
                can
                > sail with a simple Sunfish type rig. Doesn't have to be a good
                > sailer. Reason; Our club is for sailboats only so an AF4 with a
                sail
                > rig would qualify as a sailboat.
                > > Ken
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > >
                >
                > Actually, it already exists, as long as you don't mind
                > traveling at displacement speeds.
                >
                > Norms Boat
                >
                > Now, if you want a planing motor sailer, thats something
                > altogether different, although Jim has done at least
                > one;
                >
                > Petes Boat
                >
                > 24 feet, lug-rigged, with 60 hp.
                >
                > Max
              • vexatious2001
                ... building ... We can do that. I will try to move the exisitng photos tonight (I am only home during the day for a short-time today so the furnace repair
                Message 7 of 21 , Jan 10, 2002
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                  --- In Michalak@y..., "jmbell1" <jmbell@m...> wrote:
                  > AMEN! The photos section is really much more efficient for storing
                  > and viewing images.
                  >
                  > Good suggestion.
                  >
                  > JB
                  >
                  > --- In Michalak@y..., "orpdh" <petehodges@y...> wrote:
                  > > 1. We use the Photos section for photos.
                  > >
                  > > 2. We use the Files sections for files. Examples would be
                  building
                  > > tips with folders for epoxy, scarfing, sail making, problems
                  > > encountered with each particular boat design and the solution that
                  > > was used, etc.


                  We can do that. I will try to move the
                  exisitng photos tonight (I am only home during
                  the day for a short-time today so the furnace
                  repair man can earn some money.)


                  Max
                • vexatious2001
                  ... a lug-rigged sailing option for the Skiffamerica 20, and I have seen a preliminary drawing, but the last word i had on it, was he was not going to put the
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jan 10, 2002
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                    --- In Michalak@y..., "jmbell1" <jmbell@m...> wrote:
                    > I don't see why putting the rig from Norm's Boat on AF4 wouldn't
                    > work. It would not be all that great a sailer with due to the large
                    > transom dragging and creating turbulence. I would want to make more
                    > waterproof spaces in case of knock down, though. The weight of the
                    > engine up high in the stern may be a problem.
                    >
                    > I get it a lot of comments relative to my boat appearing to be a
                    > sailboat. People seem surprised that it is exclusively a motor boat.
                    >
                    > Here's a thought: build one and stick a mast in it but never build
                    > the rest of the sailing rig and call it a motorsailer. They'll never
                    > know!
                    >
                    > JB
                    >
                    > Kilburn Adams was originally going to show
                    a lug-rigged sailing option for the Skiffamerica 20,
                    and I have seen a preliminary drawing, but the last
                    word i had on it, was he was not going to put the
                    time into doing the drawings unless he had a plans
                    buying interested in building it that way. There
                    would be no changes to the hull other than I believe
                    he was going to use a daggerboard in a trunk offset
                    to one side.

                    Considering there is like 40 or more pages to a set
                    of drawings for a SkiffAmerica, I guess he needed
                    a break from drawing.


                    Max
                  • ntsrfer
                    What kind of compromises would have to be made to a hull like the af4/af2 to get an all around planning hull from motor and sail? I have seen water ballast
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jan 11, 2002
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                      What kind of compromises would have to be made to a hull like the
                      af4/af2 to get an all around planning hull from motor and sail?

                      I have seen water ballast tanks. Couldn't you just dump the
                      water to help the boat plane when motoring and have the extra
                      stability with them full when sailing.

                      Like a Macgregor yacht 26. But I don't have $20,000.

                      I like the fact of motoring to a location them sailing. Or being able
                      to motor home when the wind dies or the weather gets rough. With a
                      three year old aboard who wants to go ashore right NOW or a wife
                      thats become impatient a motor with a planning hull would be nice.

                      Todd

                      Stoked to have this group!



                      --- In Michalak@y..., "jmbell1" <jmbell@m...> wrote:
                      > I don't see why putting the rig from Norm's Boat on AF4 wouldn't
                      > work. It would not be all that great a sailer with due to the large
                      > transom dragging and creating turbulence. I would want to make more
                      > waterproof spaces in case of knock down, though. The weight of the
                      > engine up high in the stern may be a problem.
                      >
                      >
                      > JB
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In Michalak@y..., "vexatious2001" <cadbury@s...> wrote:
                      > > --- In Michalak@y..., "Ken Abrahams" <abrahams@s...> wrote:
                      > > > Wish list: Sailing version of AF4. Must plane with 10 hp but
                      > can
                      > > sail with a simple Sunfish type rig. Doesn't have to be a good
                      > > sailer. Reason; Our club is for sailboats only so an AF4 with a
                      > sail
                      > > rig would qualify as a sailboat.
                      > > > Ken
                      > > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > Actually, it already exists, as long as you don't mind
                      > > traveling at displacement speeds.
                      > >
                      > > Norms Boat
                      > >
                      > > Now, if you want a planing motor sailer, thats something
                      > > altogether different, although Jim has done at least
                      > > one;
                      > >
                      > > Petes Boat
                      > >
                      > > 24 feet, lug-rigged, with 60 hp.
                      > >
                      > > Max
                    • vexatious2001
                      ... Kilburn Adams wasn t (to the best of my memory) going to make any changes to the hull of the SkiffAmerica to add the sail rig, other than the daggerboard
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jan 12, 2002
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                        --- In Michalak@y..., "ntsrfer" <ktsrfer@m...> wrote:
                        > What kind of compromises would have to be made to a hull like the
                        > af4/af2 to get an all around planning hull from motor and sail?
                        >
                        > I have seen water ballast tanks. Couldn't you just dump the
                        > water to help the boat plane when motoring and have the extra
                        > stability with them full when sailing.
                        >
                        > Like a Macgregor yacht 26. But I don't have $20,000.
                        >
                        >
                        Kilburn Adams wasn't (to the best of my memory)
                        going to make any changes to the hull of the SkiffAmerica
                        to add the sail rig, other than the daggerboard trunk.

                        I think is was basically unballasted.

                        As far as the AF4, I think a big help to it's sailing
                        ability would be moving wieght forward to lessen the
                        immersion of the transom while under sale. Moving
                        the wieght aft for motoring would probably be necessary.

                        When I built my AF4, I set-up the anchor compartment
                        forward so that it could function as a water ballast
                        tank; i.e. I eliminated the 'step" in the side of
                        the hull and also the vent in the bulkhead, and I have
                        plugs for the drain holes in the bottom. If "pounding"
                        at anchor became a problem, I would plug the holes, bucket
                        the comparment full of water, and that, combined with my
                        weight in the cabin, should put the stem in the water and
                        lessen the pounding.

                        This same system, i would think, could be used to ballast
                        the boat to forward trim and get the transom bottom as
                        near to the surface of the water as possible for sailing.
                        Pulling the plugs and allowing the water to drain would
                        trim the boat aft which would be better for motoring.

                        I think it would be necessary to increase the angle of the
                        rake on the bottom at the bow so that when the boat is
                        trimed forward for sailing, the stem is still clear of the
                        water. And the anchor well would probably have to be
                        decked over to keep the ballast water from slopping out
                        when heeled.

                        i have yet to need to try-out my forward ballast system
                        while anchored, so I have no idea how much forward trim
                        that would supply.

                        I am no naval archetect (nor good speller for that matter)
                        but I think this "forward trim for sail/ aft trim for motoring"
                        idea would would, but it may need a new hull design to work
                        well.

                        max
                      • Chuck Leinweber
                        ... I won t comment on your spelling, Max, but you might be onto something with this trim adjustment thing. Have you mentioned the idea to Jim? Chuck
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jan 12, 2002
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                          > I am no naval archetect (nor good speller for that matter)
                          > but I think this "forward trim for sail/ aft trim for motoring"
                          > idea would would, but it may need a new hull design to work
                          > well.
                          >
                          > max

                          I won't comment on your spelling, Max, but you might be onto something with
                          this trim adjustment thing. Have you mentioned the idea to Jim?

                          Chuck
                        • vexatious2001
                          ... something with ... No, I just thunk it up this morning, probably because I skipped my medication... Certainly it is not a new idea, and in a small boat the
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jan 12, 2002
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                            >
                            > I won't comment on your spelling, Max, but you might be onto
                            something with
                            > this trim adjustment thing. Have you mentioned the idea to Jim?
                            >
                            > Chuck

                            No, I just thunk it up this morning, probably because
                            I skipped my medication...


                            Certainly it is not a new idea, and in a small boat
                            the placement of passengers and supplies would greatly
                            affect how it worked.

                            I will bring it up the next time I converse with him.

                            I haven't heard a word out of him since I broke the
                            news that I was moderating "his" group.

                            Wonder if that means anything??


                            Max
                          • Chuck Leinweber
                            ... I have! He said you blamed it on me. I had to tell him you were a big fat liar, to save face. Chuck
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jan 12, 2002
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                              > I haven't heard a word out of him since I broke the
                              > news that I was moderating "his" group.
                              >
                              > Wonder if that means anything??
                              >
                              >
                              > Max

                              I have! He said you blamed it on me. I had to tell him you were a big fat
                              liar, to save face.

                              Chuck
                            • vexatious2001
                              ... big fat ... Both of you should know better than to listen to anything I have to say (especially when I have skipped my medication.) Now its off to the
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jan 12, 2002
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                                --- In Michalak@y..., "Chuck Leinweber" <chuck@d...> wrote:
                                > > I haven't heard a word out of him since I broke the
                                > > news that I was moderating "his" group.
                                > >
                                > > Wonder if that means anything??
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Max
                                >
                                > I have! He said you blamed it on me. I had to tell him you were a
                                big fat
                                > liar, to save face.
                                >
                                > Chuck

                                Both of you should know better than to
                                listen to anything I have to say (especially when
                                I have skipped my medication.)


                                Now its off to the garage to "bevel" leeboards.


                                Max
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